Getting past Falco's lasers and defending against his approach

[psyche_haha]

well no one's going to be as dumb as to just hang there and wait for the dair to come...i know that the invincibility frames from dropping and grabbing on the ledge works, and you don't even have to wavedash onto the stage to get back on, you could merely roll or possibily (for mindgames) legdge hop with an aerial. there are actually lots of options here to keep your opponent guessing and for you to get back on the stage without much problem (just from my experience at least). And obviously this shouldn't be the ONLY approach you take against a falco's laser, but i find it pretty effective at the beginning of the match or when the falco gets back on the stage from a kill.

 

[DGMavn]

Hooray!
I got ***** by Falcos at Smashtality - now I just have to find a good Falco and practice these. Thanks for the awesome post!

 

[Silver Sytos]

Hey, lasers are easy enough.

How do I get out of shine comboes? Those things are F'ING BROKEN. Which way do I di, besides away? I di away but I still get hit, and it doesn't work to well. help please. :o

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Lasers are easy?! lol...

after 50%, you can tech out of it..focus on that as no matter where you di, if the falco is good, you're still in his grasp.

 

[Emblem Lord]

DI away and tech. Not much else. You can smash DI to go farther away I think.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Make sure you time the tech correctly though. If you miss time the tech you have to wait another 40 frames (technically at least 20 of those were before your character missed the tech and bounced) before you can tech again. That could easily mean another 30% on you.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

*Lifts back to the top of the pile*.

I thought it was getting too far down, and such a good thread needs to be bumped.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You would be very right wraith.

 

[Problem2]

lol...
Marth: "I've got a new tactic against falco!" *Hangs on edge*
*Falco walks to edge and shuffles a d-air, marth gets spiked*
Marth: "oh noes..."

sorry, just that played out in my mind.

Actually my friend tried that. Usually, when you have Falco at the ledge, you can come back up and start whatever, but this was our situation (me being Falco)

Falco: SHL, SHL, SHL,...
Marth: "**** this..." *Hangs on edge*
Falco: *Stands a ways back and waits*
Marth: *falls off* "uh oh..."
Marth: *Dolphin Blade*
Falco: *D-smash*
Marth: "Noooo!"

 

[YondaimeMarth]

your list was very useful emblemlord. also on dk 64 stage where the main platform is lower i find it easier to crouch to avoid lasers causing the falco to approach for the attack where i can grab him.

 

[TierWhore]

Again, another great post by emblemlord. Great job, I always thought that the greatest part of the matchup of marth vs. falco was the edgegaurding that marth can pull off. It's fun as hell too, the whole jab counter spike and jump out and fair/neutral b is just killer and it looks fancy as hell if you can pull any combination of them off.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Bump to top

 

[Joe_Sumo]

I found the double fair approach very useful when the falco tries to roll away am spam again becuase the 1st fair misses but the second will hit when the roll ends

 

[ArcNatural]

bump +1

A strategy used extremely well by M2k, when near edges, always try to grab or uptilt Falco or Fox when facing towards the middle of the stage. If you get the grab a quick upthrow with no DI can lead to a full jump dair, while a succesful uptilt basically just gives them the option of being uptilted several times (as if you do practically any normal DI besides towards Marth will cause you to go straight up) or if they do DI towards you it's an easy short hopped or full jumped dair.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I cannot let this fall to the second page! *Does a leaping charging Shield breaker*

 

[ArcNatural]

My friend threw a red ball at me today, I countered it and he fell like Roy's trajectory on his counter. I play Marth though, so how does this happen!!!!

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Tis a mystery..

 

[ArcNatural]

Any specific strategies for laser campers that stay under a platform and laser spam?

 

[Keitaro]

As I read the intro post I had visions in my head of the one or two times I used Falco against Emblem for almost every #.

#9's the worst.

 

[Lord Knight]

Play angry and upset.

 

[Emblem Lord]

#9 FTW.

It's all I do vs Falco players and they all get owned by it.

Seriously.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Bump to top.

 

[Velox]

You don't even have 2 of the best ways to get around lasers.

I got both of these from NEO while watching him play the Flordia Falcos at PAWS.

The first one is wavedash backwards out of your shield and f-smash the Falco if he is mindlessly approaching you. If the Falco doesn't overshoot the f-smash will tip (and kill), which will scare the f*** out of the Falco. I've seen Tink do this extensivly recently, but it's definatly a NEO origional.

Number 2 is an extremly effective tactic, taking the lasers right to the face, just get hit by them and then immediatly jab/u-tilt/etc. This is fast enough to knock the Falco out of pretty much anything, unless the are in a situation where they can immediatly jab/shine after the laser. Otherwise, if they are following up with a d-air/dash into a grab you can hit them right out of it, which will take them by suprise, you can follow up with a grab, etc. This is a good thing to keep in mind if you just take a laser to the face randomly during the match, just jab right after getting hit.

Wait, what was wrong with these things that I consistantly get to work on every Falco in the universe?

 

[ArcNatural]

Wow! Amazing!

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Excellent thread, I do most of these but I should do wavedash out of shield alot more.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

falco's are a problem for my marth aswell thanks for this thread i will try to incorporate all of those more fluidly into my game

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, i don't hvae problems with falcos that approach..i just have problems on FD...full jumping across the stage is not the perfect escape:\ a good falco can pick you out of the air with a mix of triple lasers and double lasers..and then even when you do close the range they have numerous options to punish your aerial approach and get away...i'll admit if you can catch them in their shield as you land a fair things go ok..but oftentimes they will respace as you land and then either be in the air flying past you with a fulljump over your head (not too hard to punish), come in with a ground approach as you land, preferably laser backed...or just roll away or whatnot

anyways i'm sorta getting creamed (no longer 3-stocking and actually losing on FD the majority of the time) my friend's falco..laser camping does make things so much harder..i wish he'd just approach with those lasers...that i can handle better

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, i don't hvae problems with falcos that approach..i just have problems on FD...full jumping across the stage is not the perfect escape:\ a good falco can pick you out of the air with a mix of triple lasers and double lasers..and then even when you do close the range they have numerous options to punish your aerial approach and get away...i'll admit if you can catch them in their shield as you land a fair things go ok..but oftentimes they will respace as you land and then either be in the air flying past you with a fulljump over your head (not too hard to punish), come in with a ground approach as you land, preferably laser backed...or just roll away or whatnot

anyways i'm sorta getting creamed (no longer 3-stocking and actually losing on FD the majority of the time) my friend's falco..laser camping does make things so much harder..i wish he'd just approach with those lasers...that i can handle better

anyways, i've been trying to switch it up and sometimes fastfall to a dash nearby him instead of fairing so i can close the range but my chaingrabbing keeps missing at around 40-60..i'll screw up the combo to fsmash that i'm trying and let him get another 30% in lasers on me or whatever it is:\

honestly, i guess at max range it might be worth double jumping over all his lasers..cause he literally hits me in the sky with like 1/2 shots...even with me trying to fastfall at the right time to avoid lasers

 

[RaynEX]

im blind...i can't believe i didn't see this.

great thread. Gave me a lot of good ideas in this match-up.

 

[Retroking2000]

nice thread ~ this helped me especially because i have a tourney coming up in 2 week ; )

 

[Momo and Tipping Marth]

wow thanks man for the post, all those tactics did indeed help me against my friends falco. Powershielding the lasers seem'd to scare him the most but was the hardest of the techniques to pull off.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

if you want to know my opinion as a Falco player the only options that are going to make the difference are using Fair out of shield or counter out of shield. Powershielding can be sometimes good but you have to know how to use it. Also timing and knowledge of the opponent is particulary important while pulling out these defenses. Imagine what will happen if you pull out a counter and your opponent doesn't immediatly attack lol..

 

[knightpraetor]

so i'm still having a hard time understanding when to counter and when to just shield then fair out of shield....i'm confused as to how falco punishes the latter..i'm not good at remembering my matches....but ya a lot of the time i just plan to shield the laser then fair out if he approaches..rather than counter or do one of the others..

so ya maybe if i understood how falco punishes the fair out of shield then i'd be better at knowing when to counter instead...fair out of shield just seems so much better.. (read: combo to grab sometimes etc)

 

[ArcNatural]

so i'm still having a hard time understanding when to counter and when to just shield then fair out of shield....i'm confused as to how falco punishes the latter..i'm not good at remembering my matches....but ya a lot of the time i just plan to shield the laser then fair out if he approaches..rather than counter or do one of the others..

so ya maybe if i understood how falco punishes the fair out of shield then i'd be better at knowing when to counter instead...fair out of shield just seems so much better.. (read: combo to grab sometimes etc)

Good Falco's can time it well so that they can dash shl you to shine or grab before you can jump out of the shield. That could be a good time to consider countering. Mainly it's just what your feeling atm. If you can't seem to take the pressure and the Falco is very offensive you can counter a bit to make them a little more defensive. Maybe you want a tech chase opportunity or the counter could possibly knock them off the stage. There is no understanding of when to fair out of shield or when to counter. You just go with what your feeling.

 

[knightpraetor]

well that help s a bit...for one thing the spacing the falco needs on a shine or immediate grab after the laser is much more severe, so it's something i can notice and choose to counter in advance hopefully..if i can learn to tell the spacing and react in time...and ya..i'm not as good at getting counter gimp kills on other falcos as some of my friends.. like sometimes i feel like they get the most amazing kills and i feel jealous..but at the same time..their use of counter there is very risky

 

[Dark Sonic]

bump to top.

I seriously don't know why threads like this are allowed to sink to the bottom.

 

[Ja]

Does anyone have vidoes of a good Marth vs. a campy Falco like Mathos? Youtube fails.

 

[MarsFool!]

And god said: Campy Falco>Marth, Prove me wrong =/

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

Marth is the king of Melee.

Just like I will always be the king of the Marth forums. Be it in the Brawl boards or the Melee boards.

Bump for great justice.

 

[Retroking2000]

LOL your king of a small section of a website thats weak dude