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Georgia Brawl Power Rankings Thread (as of 4/25/2012)
- Thread starter DRN
- Start date
- Status
Player-1
Smash Legend
ehhh....disagree with pretty much everything except top 2
Saki-
Reset Project
Dibs on graphic image?
Lol u wanna make our PR image? I mean i have no problem with it and it'd be awesome. Talk to me on skype about it ;D
Player-1
Smash Legend
No Chas has the worst graphic ideas; talk to me about it
Saki-
Reset Project
Or I could hear both ideas....yeah
Player-1
Smash Legend
You're ranked 0 scatz.
milesg2g
Smash Champion
I had no idea P1 was apart of the URC lol.
4GOD (JJV)
Smash Apprentice
^ I lol'd. Also, cant wait to see next season's PR without MK. I hav a hunch top 5 will b much differentI was about to flip a table if I saw myself ranked. But I didn't so I'm good.
Player-1
Smash Legend
MK is going to be on the next PR though. I'm running all MK legal events until Apex is done.
Micaelis
Smash Journeyman
Same. He won't be off it until early middle of next year. Next PR update will most likely be around the week MK is officially banned so we can start an MK Banned PR Season right away.
Sorry Jorge, lol. I don't think it will change much anyways besides the addition of 1-2 players (4GOD and Scatt if he comes back). Where they'll be is yet to be determined.
I'm not going to drop if it's the last thing I do. I'm for once approaching Smash with a seriously determined mindset to get better so if I drop, I don't even know what I'll do. But doesn't matter because I won't drop, I'm just going up up up.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
Going back to D3 when MK gets banned.
;3
;3
Player-1
Smash Legend
Late middle? All of my events will be MK banned after Apex....plus I have to, I'm in the URC, but I agree with it so yeah...
Michael means that our PR wont have any MKs on it till late middle of next year since our next update will have him on it.
milesg2g
Smash Champion
I wonder how long the MK ban will last.
I hope he gets banned for a good 4 months lol
I hope he gets banned for a good 4 months lol
Micaelis
Smash Journeyman
I think he'll be banned for either a long time or forever. It really depends on the TOs/community. Because Unity is just a ruleset, no one has to use it. It's just nationally accepted right now. As long as people keep using Unity or some form of it, he'll stay banned. If TOs/communities, especially nationals, decide they aren't using Unity/modification of Unity, then the ban will probably slip away gradually as a mix of both Ban and No Ban tournaments will be hosted. Especially if Nationals don't keep the ban (they usually have their own rulesets) and I could see them not keeping it because of OoC influence.
Overall, I want it to stick. I like playing Metaknight and never have disliked playing against him but he's extremely easy to play and overpowering. However, the real problem is seen at a larger scale with how frequently he is used and how being in someone's pocket abuses the CP system horribly. Plus, I like Wario ten times more and having one less super frequent bad MU to play is awesome
milesg2g
Smash Champion
I hope he gets banned so the community can see how it is without him. I see more of a negative effect without him than a positive one.
Arguments before with MK were that SO many people quit because of him, which is a lie lol. People quit because of him, but not SO many people. It was like 5 from each local lol and they typically weren't competitive gamers in the first place. Tbh, more people are likely to quit with him gone, because more people main him than the people that quit, and the smash community is more of a community than a competitive scene. (I say this knowing how he got banned too lol) If MK gets banned, and MK mains stop attending, chances are people who don't place, but just attend because of those certain players won't show up either. Example if Seibrik were to stop playing because of the ban despite his D3, you'd see people he likely teams with quit and/or his friends that don't place well and just attend to hang with him stop coming.
It's too late, the ban should've happened 3 years ago not now. Who cares how easy it is to play him, look @ how much time those players put in to learn him. So you think he's an easy character to learn and is overpowered, yet the same people win with him. It's not as if you can just drop your character for him and get passed a player. The one's that have done that are exceptionally good with him [Ally lol]
As far as the idiots that have said, "now the metagame can start" I feel really bad for them. It's actually quite the opposite. Regardless of how broken you think the character is/was it didn't stop you from pushing your character to the limits to beat him. How fast do you think the progression of Snake and other characters would go if MK didn't exist? Like seriously people have some of the dumbest mindsets when it comes to this game. Imo, MK pushes every character to play their gayest. I've played Ness gay as **** because of the character. And don't laugh and say "lol Ness" because it's possible. Look what happened to BigLou @ MLG against Shaky. No one knew how gay PKT is on PS2 ****** the **** out of you in the air. Something this state isn't used to because you're not nearly as competitive as other scenes. But that's another discussion. The discussion isn't about GA/AL it's about the people that have the same mindset as us. It's just annoying.
Arguments before with MK were that SO many people quit because of him, which is a lie lol. People quit because of him, but not SO many people. It was like 5 from each local lol and they typically weren't competitive gamers in the first place. Tbh, more people are likely to quit with him gone, because more people main him than the people that quit, and the smash community is more of a community than a competitive scene. (I say this knowing how he got banned too lol) If MK gets banned, and MK mains stop attending, chances are people who don't place, but just attend because of those certain players won't show up either. Example if Seibrik were to stop playing because of the ban despite his D3, you'd see people he likely teams with quit and/or his friends that don't place well and just attend to hang with him stop coming.
It's too late, the ban should've happened 3 years ago not now. Who cares how easy it is to play him, look @ how much time those players put in to learn him. So you think he's an easy character to learn and is overpowered, yet the same people win with him. It's not as if you can just drop your character for him and get passed a player. The one's that have done that are exceptionally good with him [Ally lol]
As far as the idiots that have said, "now the metagame can start" I feel really bad for them. It's actually quite the opposite. Regardless of how broken you think the character is/was it didn't stop you from pushing your character to the limits to beat him. How fast do you think the progression of Snake and other characters would go if MK didn't exist? Like seriously people have some of the dumbest mindsets when it comes to this game. Imo, MK pushes every character to play their gayest. I've played Ness gay as **** because of the character. And don't laugh and say "lol Ness" because it's possible. Look what happened to BigLou @ MLG against Shaky. No one knew how gay PKT is on PS2 ****** the **** out of you in the air. Something this state isn't used to because you're not nearly as competitive as other scenes. But that's another discussion. The discussion isn't about GA/AL it's about the people that have the same mindset as us. It's just annoying.
Micaelis
Smash Journeyman
I want to respond kind of but I don't WANT to talk about it LOL so I just won't. I will say that the number 1 thing I hate about him being banned is the probable influx of more of the characters I absolutely hate to play. I never hated playing against MK for some reason, but I hate hate hate D3 and I hate Falco. There's a lot more I dislike fighting but I can manage. I use to absolutely hate Diddy too until I started playing Wario <3 now I can manage. I might have to learn Pikachu or something lolol just so I can stomach those MUs if they get too prevalent.
One of the reasons there are so many Meta Knight players is because people realized that it is far and away one's best chance at success. Some did it to maximize win potential. Some did it to raise his dominance, and, therefore, a reason to ban him. Some did it to break the counterpick system.
It is certain that Meta Knight has killed a great deal of excitement in high-level matches. I never stick around to watch Meta Knight dittos. I groan whenever a Meta Knight is losing until he starts spamming the right moves to victory (which happens more often than one might think). It's definitely a big part of why Doubles is a joke.
How much time has gone by is irrelevant. If we ban a character, it's because he's too overpowered/overcentralizing, and regardless of the fact that we waited until a huge part of a character's viability had to do with your MK matchup, it's never too late to make the game and community a better place.
I'm pretty sure that Seibrik doesn't have groupies that enter tournaments just to hang out with him. His Smash friends might not want to play in an MK-banned environment, but outside of a situation where Seibrik is the only one in his crew with a car, to say that it would cause other people to leave as a result is silly.
People would play to win regardless of Meta Knight's existence. How fast/often the metagame evolves is not what shows how good the metagame is. That said, there are plenty of characters whose growth has been stunted by Meta Knight's existence, and it's easy to spin the situation as a chance for the metagame to grow faster than ever before. After almost four years of Meta Knight ridiculousness, metagame growth has slowed down significantly, since people have figured out so much of what's possible. Now that other characters will actually see use, it gives us an opportunity to grow so much more.
Ness is a bad character. Luigi's N-Air beats PKT. Most long-lasting aerials do. Should've learned the matchup. I must reiterate--Ness is totally bad. >_>
milesg2g
Smash Champion
I disagree. It's not about Seibrik having "groupies" it's about having a relationship with the people you see @ every tourney. Other than the what? like 5 people that really have a chance to win in tourney with MK banned, the other locals who are friends with not only Seibrik, but other MK mains will stop coming. You act like that won't happen. You act as if someone who loses to characters aside MK, who just attends tourney's for fun, wouldn't stop attending if their friends stopped. I guess that just like went over your head.
As far as the excitement goes, no **** it's boring as hell to watch MK dittos. But you act as if with him banned there won't be other ditto's people won't wanna see. Funny thing is, there probably won't be, because this game is a straight up counterpicking game with or without him. Our scene is a perfect example of this. Reflex you just lost to 4God in tourney, now many people may think "Man 4God has really gotten better, i mean he took out Reflex" that's people in our scene. But when you stop and look @ it all he did was counterpick you. Wario vs D3? Wario vs PT? I'm not even sure who you used but the fact that those are your best characters, it doesn't shock me he won. He probably played the MU as gay as possible and won. period. That's all this game results to when it comes to the game without him. You've also lost to P3 in pools, because of counterpicking. I'm not saying your bad @ all, but that's all this game really comes down to counterpicking, with or without him. You preach on how bad he ruins the game and ditto's blow when our scene doesn't even have it.
The community as a whole has just outright given up on this game imo. The reason for him sticking around in the past was because people were inspired they could beat him, now you see players lack motivation, not because he's unfair, but because they're waiting to ban him. Like wtf that's the dumbest thing ever.
The time isn't irrelevant, especially when you consider a new smash is coming out. Why would you ban a character NOW of all times, when this is what it's been forever. There's a very clear alternate way to keep MK kept legal. And that's getting rid of RC and Brinstar. yeah lets just do that. "Wait nooooooo nuuuuu I've learned that level, and counterpicked people for 3-4 years with it, don't ban it plz. Just ban the character that's better than me on it and I'll be fine. I'm well aware that a character takes more practice than a stage, but I like the stage too" If we fix the stage list from what it is now I guarantee you will see a huge swap in tourney results.
As far as he goes with the metagame, it remains the same. Look at the rate in which characters have grown just to beat him. Talk about metagame in a smash game. You would not see that type of progression without him. Why? Because it's a dam counterpicking game. If you know you can simply pick another character to get passed someone you would. With MK you have that same option only with MK, which is a worse option. Example:
9 times out of 10 someone that's good @ this game knows the MK MU. So if you lose first round to someone's Falco with Diddy and you're thinking of Cping him with MK you're probably more screwed because he more than likely knows that MU even better. Now with MK gone, you'd just pick another counter for Falco instead of sticking to your character. My point is with MK gone in the first place, this game would be like Melee, everyone would have dual mains to compliment their bad MU's instead of learning them. With MK in the game or legal rather, people will commit to picking him even when not knowing how to use him. Just the fact that he could be picked against someone to counterpick is a huge risk in mid- high level play.
Let me explain this to you, if you're a high level player (this is going off the mindset that you've accepted MK in the game for what he is) you only see yourself possibly losing to a high level MK. Not a low-mid level players MK. Which is my point, when people decide to perfect their character instead of committing to MK and losing in a set they see they had a better chance sticking to their character. The Metagame isn't dying cuz he's there, it's dying because people are losing faith in their characters regardless of the MU.
I really hope he gets banned so you can see my point.
PS: On the Ness thing I'm aware he's a bad character, but if he's played to the best of his ability on a stage that compliments his style he can take a game. Which was the case and point with lounis. I'm saying Shaky lives in FL and when he was on the come up
My point is that Seibrik isn't the only person that people build a relationship with. If Calvin decided to stop going to tournaments as a result of a Meta Knight ban, it wouldn't make me enjoy the scene any less; one person rarely makes up a large part of what's enjoyable in the community. I'd still have fun competing and hanging out with everyone else.
I don't understand. "Meta Knight dittos are sucky, and some other dittos are, too, but we won't see them as much, either." Win-win, as far as interest goes.
The best characters rarely have matchups worse than a slight advantage, but if the game is as heavily based on counterpicking as you say, then we won't have to worry about overcentralization. Many of the best characters do well on similar stages, so it'll be much harder to counterpick than "pick not-so-great stage for opponent's character, pick MK."As an aside, I lost to 4GOD with Wario and Captain Falcon. He's a fantastic player, and I wasn't ready for him. I regret not trying PT, but, eh. As for Player-3, I was overly aggressive and walked into a terrible matchup (PT vs. Marth). That doesn't happen with Diddy, Snake, Falco, Marth, or Olimar, for instance. Counterpicking is important, but it's hardly the set-defining change you're making it out to be outside of Meta Knight practically getting a free win on his counterpick.
Almost four years of constantly having to tailor the ruleset to make MK appear fair, watching the metagame turn into "better be ready for Meta Knight," and being forced to take wins with lots of luck against obnoxiously safe play (even by Brawl standards) are what brings the community to the decision that has been made. Lots of things have held it back in the meantime, but we've merely given up on the idea that Meta Knight's existence is healthy and competitive.
There are MLG statistics that show that the win percentage for Meta Knight is largely unaffected by Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar. He dominates with the platforms on neutrals, and takes away from the depth of counterpick stages. I would argue that Brinstar is stupid, even without Meta Knight, but there's not much wrong with Rainbow Cruise. Either way, that's just another rule to tack on to make Meta Knight appear fair. Where does it stop?
A good player is gonna know the Diddy matchup, too. In the event that you're playing a high tier character and switch to MK, you're significantly raising your chances (Meta Knight does tons better against Dedede than Wario). It's the same as why you'd switch to any other high tier...Except Meta Knight has a better matchup against -everyone- (with a small handful of exceptions). If you're getting away with the opponent not knowing the matchup, you'd better be playing mid tier or lower. Now, when people lose to Marth, they have good reason to go Snake, Diddy, or Dedede, instead of defaulting to Meta Knight. It prevents the bottleneck that comes with character choice (because, really, picking up Falco for Dedede is dumb when you can accomplish that and so much more with Meta Knight).
I've lost more than my fair share of matches to Meta Knight players who don't even think about their options, due to them being so safe. Forward roll? Tilts? F-Smash? Sure, they're better in the metagame that allows it, but while I can't say that I'm losing to someone who isn't as good as me (since I lost), I can say with confidence that I'm losing to someone who didn't put nearly as much thought into what's happening. It's less "people being campy" and more "broken properties."
That's just it, though! He -is- banned! The witch is dead~
![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
I know this is literally in like, 12 days.
But 40-60 FL players are going to this, including 8-all power rankers.
GA should try to make it out to here.
I can offer some housing.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310640
But 40-60 FL players are going to this, including 8-all power rankers.
GA should try to make it out to here.
I can offer some housing.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310640
yeah everyone should stop talking about mk now and forever.
i mean dont do a self fullfilling prophecy and start thinking the metagame will die without him because then it probably will. just play and lets see what happens. and play well.
also i came here to say WTF BIG LOU NUMBER 3 ??!!
i mean dont do a self fullfilling prophecy and start thinking the metagame will die without him because then it probably will. just play and lets see what happens. and play well.
also i came here to say WTF BIG LOU NUMBER 3 ??!!
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
Speaking as an OOS'er, GA was a tragedy. I seriously love all of you, and I know youve all heard this story staying at my house or just listening to me talk about brawl in general.
My first OOS brawl tournament was in early 2010 at WABA, and I remember being in literal awe of the state of GA's players. You guys were nothing like NC, or SC. You didnt have 11 MK's and three other Top tier players, you guys had almost one of everything, A sick *** Luigi, an AMAZING pokemon trainer, an amazing Diddy Kong, an amazing Lucario, a great DK, an Up coming wario and Falco prospectively.
Seeing all of you give up on characters you love for MK was stomach turning, awful. I know I dont know everyones individual stories here, but speaking as an outsider it was sad. Stuff like that was a MAJOR reason I quit playing brawl. People had no hope for anything greater. They just wanted to be better MK players.
/rant.
My first OOS brawl tournament was in early 2010 at WABA, and I remember being in literal awe of the state of GA's players. You guys were nothing like NC, or SC. You didnt have 11 MK's and three other Top tier players, you guys had almost one of everything, A sick *** Luigi, an AMAZING pokemon trainer, an amazing Diddy Kong, an amazing Lucario, a great DK, an Up coming wario and Falco prospectively.
Seeing all of you give up on characters you love for MK was stomach turning, awful. I know I dont know everyones individual stories here, but speaking as an outsider it was sad. Stuff like that was a MAJOR reason I quit playing brawl. People had no hope for anything greater. They just wanted to be better MK players.
/rant.
Player-1
Smash Legend
yeah maybe I'll go back to using low tier Diddy instead of my OPed bowser...
4GOD (JJV)
Smash Apprentice
FINALLY!!! Thank you!
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Or everyone should come to the FL tourney.
milesg2g
Smash Champion
^ That's a john tbh.The point is you got counterpicked, picking CF seems like a give up or major disrespect. I'd like to assume you just gave up though lol.
This statement annoys me the most about our scene. You say this as if MK was a constant thing You or We have had to deal with. It isn't, but the moment you've had to, learning the MU has been out of your thoughts because banning him seems so possible. It's the easy way out.
I guess what I'm trying to point out is obvious. Our scene sucks because we settle for average. With or without MK. I feel like aside from our Top players, we have a very passive attitude on gaying your opponent. And whenever one of them decides to, our Top players are like "Oh he's good" No he's not he's ****ing normal like wtf. Like I wish I could say "wow 4GOD is smart for cp'ing Reflex" but it's not true, he just happened to play you in bracket. How this relates to MK? MK is a counterpicking character and since our scene isn't even used to the other gay parts of this game despite him, you all just freak the hell out towards him and our Top players look down on him. Part of the reason we don't have any in our state tbh, because you feel bad for picking him in such a casual gaming scene. Rather than smart in a competitive one.
MLG had a lot of weird **** in it tbh. The regular ruleset was stupid as hell idk why you'd even use that as an example. But since you did, I'll bring up a fun fact about that circuit. M2K and ADHD got banned and a Diddy won with like 2 MK's in the Top 12. Sounds pretty stupid I'm sure, but hey you wanna bring up MLG and discuss characters.
The point of that example was to show a Top player won't lose to a pocket Top players MK. It doesn't happen, if a Top player commits to using a MK the most known MU in the game they'll get wrecked against another Top player, hell even a Mid level player. Oh yeah not if you're in a scene like GA/AL where they trip the hell out about the character himself, don't know the MU and he's banned in their region without any.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Good stuff Chas.
Micaelis
Smash Journeyman
@Juno - Yeah... I was kind of sad too even though I was the one who started it since I was the first actual MK main. But it's going to go back to sort of the way it was, hopefully at least.
Funny yet sad observation... the top 4 in our state now are officially MKs :D check the list, that nice little angled line. GA was doing it right... good stuff, lol.
Funny yet sad observation... the top 4 in our state now are officially MKs :D check the list, that nice little angled line. GA was doing it right... good stuff, lol.
Thanks Man. Hopefully i can somehow make it out to the FL tourney and see all of you guys :D
yeah i feel like things are going to go back to the way they were when brawl first came out as far as what character people will be maining. maybe not as FAR back as when brawl first came out. but i definately feel like things will go back to the way they were a a couple years ago or something. its not a bad thing. itll be fun at least.
and <3 ive always thought of you guys as "doing things right" i admire GA, you guys are all really smart players.
like when it was "gay" to cg people or grab release them, you guys were all about it. in AL people would throw a fit if it was happening and basically discredit your skill level and i think you guys abusing things just made you all better players in the long run. just little things like that. you guys are more competitive than we were back then like that and it pushed you guys imho. theres just so many little things i feel that GA does right.
yall are just legit lol
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
DJ Arcatek
Smash Champion
I'm sure I can find GA housing if you guys can manage to come out. Guarantee it.
If ya'll are serious about coming out, I'll inform some peoples. Just give me the word.
If ya'll are serious about coming out, I'll inform some peoples. Just give me the word.
I thought I could win with Captain Falcon; I had done it multiple times outside of the tournament match. 4GOD only plays Dedede; I didn't get counterpicked, I just got beaten. I suppose it's easy to call it an excuse when you have no idea how the matchup goes, and how you weren't there, but I suppose it's easy to assume things when you don't know what happened.
I've lost to many, many Meta Knights over the last few years. It hasn't been a great problem in this area for very long because I've been the smartest player in the area by a decent margin for a while (the gap is certainly shrinking these days, though), and people aren't doing the things that they're supposed to in order to stop my characters. Meta Knight has a "beat Wario a great majority of the time by forcing him to play guessing games" formula that Calvin, Michael and Chas do not understand. I ****ing struggled through maining Pokémon Trainer for a year and a half and making a metagame from scratch. I switched through almost all the potential secondaries in the game to try to get a decent matchup against Meta Knight. I've probably tried harder than anyone else in the area to figure it out, and when someone just does the same tried-and-true methods, it usually works (I mean, I'm rather good at guessing, but when I need at least two hard reads to even have a chance of damaging a smart Meta Knight...). I suppose it's easy to assume that the people in favor of banning him are whiners who don't care to overcome bad matchups, especially when it's one of the only arguments that anti-ban seems to hold on to these days.
Sure, you can use Diddy, Marth (though no one will play Marth if they can play MK) or Falco and have a reasonable chance of winning. Does that mean that four realistically viable standalone characters is okay when the number multiplies many times without Meta Knight?
You also appear to feel that playing incredibly campy is the optimal strategy, and that's not always true. Have you ever stopped to think that there might be a more effective way to win? I've been timed out before. I've played and beaten people far better than you. I've researched and experimented with this game a whole lot. You think you know exactly what we think as a result of our character choice and our stance on the ban, and that's idiotic. Stop assuming that you understand what any of us think, and perhaps your points would make sense...Then again, you wouldn't HAVE any points if you did that, so I guess that must be troublesome.
Silly stages doesn't affect the fact that Meta Knight won more often on neutrals than his supposedly-broken Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar (percentage-based, of course). As an aside, gnes laughs at people who think that Diddy goes even with Meta Knight, and there are definitely more Meta Knights since then, as well as players from all over who couldn't come.
You are ignorant of how the game works if you think someone's pocket Meta Knight isn't fine for stomping out seasoned players of similar skill level, especially at high levels of play. "The most known matchup in the game" doesn't mean ANYTHING in high-level play, because you're supposed to know all of those things against any of the competitively viable characters at that point. I understand the matchup for most characters against Meta Knight better than most, but, keep assuming things. That's why people don't take you seriously.
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