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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
I'm bummed that Geno ultimately didn't get in, but not gonna lie, if he had to die, I would have wanted it to be for Sephiroth and Sora. Those two are legends in their own right and were two of my most wanted characters. The fact that Cloud, Sephiroth and Sora will be able to throw down with the likes of Mario, Sonic and Megaman will always be a beautiful and surreal experience to me. Bravo Sakurai. I didn't think it was possible, and I know not everyone can be happy, but you managed to end on a fantastic note.

Here's to next time, guys. It's been a fun ride. Geno forever!
 
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Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
555
Well Genbros, this is it. This is end. Ultimate is finally over.

I'm going to be brutally honest. This is one of the worst experiences with any game regarding this "train journey ride" or whatever you call it. The toxicity, death threats, drama, P*do debacle in 2020, the lame unfunny memes etc. It was horrible, you can't even like or support characters without being hated on these days. One of the main reasons why I have issues with calling Smash "a celebration of gaming" and not just a fun, simple crossover with gaming characters like the days of Melee and Brawl.

Doesn't help with the fact that overall DLC was underwhelming from variety and quantity( And no, Geno in there wouldn't change much). It focused way too much on fighters(mostly humans too, no animal, robots, cartoony etc or even genres other than JRPGs and few fighting characters). Vol.2 on its own would've been enough. Imagine if we got a Story Mode DLC/WoL Expansion with too, there was so much potential with that especially with the SE + Sora trailers which was just left there to rot basically. Just quantity with a horrible cycle.

You guys should understand all of this especially on Dec 2020 with the Geno Hate, Thread Cancellation, the poor mii costume, the crushed chances and neglect from Nintendo and SE etc.

As cool as Sora was, I can't really say I was anywhere near satisfied or concluded at the end. I was feeling a wave of disappointment flowing through me for the whole presentation and it really sucks to feel this towards the Ultimate Smash Title. The best one in the series. A game that will never, ever happen to this extent and I hate it so much.

Oh well, the main question to really ask is:

Where do we, as Geno and Smash fans alike, go from here?
 

Internet_Goblin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 29, 2021
Messages
29
So, is this going to turn into a general Geno discussion thread now or is it just going to be shut down because Ultimate is over?
 

Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
376
So, is this going to turn into a general Geno discussion thread now or is it just going to be shut down because Ultimate is over?
I mean unless you mean some people want to wait until the last reveal, since Smash 5 has chosen Plant Piranha as the Mario series newcomer we mostly know Geno isn't a fighter in this game. The following discussion is either general talk or waiting for Smash 6.

I would have wanted it to be for Sephiroth and Sora. Those two are legends in their own right and were two of my most wanted characters
Then as said, Geno techinically lost to Plant Piranha, and I do think fans have a good reason to be mad.

On the other hand, I think Geno, as a NIntendo game series character, somewhat should have a higher priority than Sora and Sephiroth, espeically the latter when neither one represents a brand new franchise. As mentioned before, my main critique is that Geno doesn't get any benefit despite Nintendo and Square are willing to do more collaboration.
 
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SSGuy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
2,683
Location
Dallas, TX/FGCU
3DS FC
4871-4520-9643
Where do we, as Geno and Smash fans alike, go from here?

I posted earlier some really great places you can check out for both Super Mario RPG and Geno related discussion and content in the event this thread is no more. Definitely check them out if you haven't had a chance!

Before this thread/Newcomer Speculation gets yeeted, I did want to drop a few additional ways you can continue showing your support for Geno and Super Mario RPG as a whole

Places to Hang Out

Operation StarFall
A great Twitter handle that shares fan driven Super Mario RPG content including art, music, game mods etc. Definitely a place I recommend if you want to continue seeing and supporting Geno

Star Road Discord
An entire Discord server for Super Mario RPG. How cool is that!
Invite Link: https://discord.gg/GywS2yq

Mario RPG Central
This is another good Discord server that talks about all Mario RPG games (SMRPG, Paper Mario, M&L, Mario + Rabbids etc)
Discord Invite Link: https://discord.gg/nY6rJua

Games/Fan Projects to Check Out:

Another Crusade/ Dragon Vein Studios
This is a game being created by Dragon Vein Studios. It's a game heavily inspired by Super Mario RPG and sets out to play just like something you would expect from Super Mario RPG. This is a really small studio who is hard at work at their game and have plenty of playable builds where you can provide feedback on. I heavily encourage supporting these guys!
Gameplay Trailer: https://youtu.be/Fg4w0fGOPNk
Discord Invite Link: discord.gg/79MFphJ

Rivals of Aether Workshop Geno
Created by Nackles42, Geno is a fully playable character in Rivals of Aether. He is even tournament viable in the Workshop series!

Geno Mii Gunner Mod
Spearheaded by Toshin with assests provided by SeanHicks, Geno is being worked on as a fully realized character using the Mii Gunner as a base template

Friday Night RPG: Legend of the 7 Weeks
This is still currently in development but this is going to be a really well put together Friday Night Funkin mod when it's fully completed. A Demo of the first week is currently available for anyone interested in checking it out
 

Internet_Goblin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 29, 2021
Messages
29
I guess now is a good excuse for my to try to make the Geno platformer I've been thinking about making. Because it's not like any official Geno content is coming out any time soon.

Though, I am struggling to come up with a good kit for them.

Edit: I'm actually making the game now. I even made a discord server for it. DM me for the link to it.
 
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S1itchey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
148
Well Genbros, this is it. This is end. Ultimate is finally over.

I'm going to be brutally honest. This is one of the worst experiences with any game regarding this "train journey ride" or whatever you call it. The toxicity, death threats, drama, P*do debacle in 2020, the lame unfunny memes etc. It was horrible, you can't even like or support characters without being hated on these days. One of the main reasons why I have issues with calling Smash "a celebration of gaming" and not just a fun, simple crossover with gaming characters like the days of Melee and Brawl.

Doesn't help with the fact that overall DLC was underwhelming from variety and quantity( And no, Geno in there wouldn't change much). It focused way too much on fighters(mostly humans too, no animal, robots, cartoony etc or even genres other than JRPGs and few fighting characters). Vol.2 on its own would've been enough. Imagine if we got a Story Mode DLC/WoL Expansion with too, there was so much potential with that especially with the SE + Sora trailers which was just left there to rot basically. Just quantity with a horrible cycle.

You guys should understand all of this especially on Dec 2020 with the Geno Hate, Thread Cancellation, the poor mii costume, the crushed chances and neglect from Nintendo and SE etc.

As cool as Sora was, I can't really say I was anywhere near satisfied or concluded at the end. I was feeling a wave of disappointment flowing through me for the whole presentation and it really sucks to feel this towards the Ultimate Smash Title. The best one in the series. A game that will never, ever happen to this extent and I hate it so much.

Oh well, the main question to really ask is:

Where do we, as Geno and Smash fans alike, go from here?
I honestly feel the same way. I know its an unpopular opinion but to me this second pass was pretty lackluster. I haven't been genuinely exited about a character reveal since banjo. I hate that I feel so empty with this final reveal. I love what this game did in the base roster but when it came to DLC they really fumbled for me. Maybe I'm still bitter about geno or the fact that I really couldn't get a single character aside from banjo that I care even the tiniest bit about? It just feels like everything post banjo was nothing but emptiness. I just can't bring myself to like these characters. Min min, Sephiroth, pyra and mythra.

It sucks knowing that I wouldn't even feel this way if geno got in because truthfully he was all I needed.
 

Fruit-Dude

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2021
Messages
1
Hey. So, I've been a lurker for a long, long time now. And I just wanted to say that...yeah. It sucks. He didn't get in. The characters we did get were great and were all well-deserving, but still...it kinda sucks how Geno couldn't come with them. But don't give up. There'll be more Smash games, and more Mario games. Eventually, he will come back for real. It might take some time, but it will happen. Stuff that's even more unbelievable that you would've been called crazy for calling have happened in this game alone. Look at Ridley, or K. Rool, or Banjo, or Steve, or Sephiroth, or Sora. It can happen. So don't give up. It's alright to be disappointed, but if you stop now he'll never be in another game. So, uh. Yeah. Figured I'd just come in and say all that, given that it's the end of Ultimate now.
 

Geno Boost

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,367
Location
Star Hill. Why do you ask?
We should work harder on increasing the support on Geno on the next smash game we all knew about the 7 squares and 4 of them are already in smash however that does not mean we should rest in the next smash game and not voice our support because there are more square-enix character will be competing on earning that spot in the future I would name a few.
-2B
-Lara croft
-Neku
-Crono
-Slime
-A Taito rep (space invader or bubble bobble dragon)
So we have to keep up the Geno support high as always to break up square-enix interest.
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
I honestly feel the same way. I know its an unpopular opinion but to me this second pass was pretty lackluster. I haven't been genuinely exited about a character reveal since banjo. I hate that I feel so empty with this final reveal. I love what this game did in the base roster but when it came to DLC they really fumbled for me. Maybe I'm still bitter about geno or the fact that I really couldn't get a single character aside from banjo that I care even the tiniest bit about? It just feels like everything post banjo was nothing but emptiness. I just can't bring myself to like these characters. Min min, Sephiroth, pyra and mythra.

It sucks knowing that I wouldn't even feel this way if geno got in because truthfully he was all I needed.
This mindset is equally as toxic as those who hate on people's beloved characters. It's because you guys allow yourselves to feel this way, that your rather niche taste is ignored and thus the companies that own those IPs of your niches hate you that makes you sit and stew in this sludge of emotions. It may not be toxic to others at first, but if you let this eat away at you, you can easily turn into someone that lashes out are other's happiness. We've already had a few of those in this thread in the past.

I'm not trying to be mean either. Remember, the gap between Geno and Sora for me is massive, and I'm a guy that gets hype for every Smash reveal because new content is good. I think you just need to try and look at things from a brighter perspective: root for your most wanted, but have some form of happiness for what comes because it's still content for your favorite game at the end of the day. I know it's not a simple thing to do, but even if you have to practice it, just having a attitude where you focus on the good more than the bad will help you massively.

Now if Smash was getting the Monster Hunter Rise treatment where the game felt pretty half-baked, the story didn't have an ending until months after release, and all the free content was pointless and not worth playing...then I could understand being more upset, because at that point the company isn't even doing the bare minimum. Smash Ultimate is much more than the bare minimum. I still know it was rushed, but as for post-launch support this game is been mostly a precious gift.

I do think that we should all still talk about how we love Geno and SMRPG, how we want them to return, and how we are both greedy in the sense that we want SMRPG everywhere and in anything we can get it in but also mild-mannered enough that we will praise them heavily for what we do get even if it's not the most. The problem with the Geno Mii here is that we all have such backlash towards it (apparently both times it was revealed) instead of being incredibly grateful vocally while still making it clear we want him to be playable: many fans see this as a failure because he didn't make it as playable, but in reality any recognition is a miracle given the circumstances.

Giving up on Geno now or being angry at Square or Nintendo now is counter-productive: the character with the most red-tape in possibly our lifetimes just got confirmed to be playable in just under two weeks. This shows that Sakurai and Nintendo will work to get character request done, something B&K and to a much lesser extent Steve. This shows that even companies like Disney have their walls break down when Sakurai comes charging in, even if it took multiple attempts. Geno could be in the EXACT SAME SITUATION and we just need to stay strong until the next opportunity shows itself, be it Smash or a new SMRPG. Hell, we KNOW Sakurai already knows that we want him, so it's simply a matter of time until Sakurai breaks down those walls and Geno gets in. If Geno was a bigger and more popular character who was still relevant, he'd have gotten more votes. We did what we could, we got noticed, and now all we can do is show we still want it and make it clear. It's for this reason I support purchase of Legends Arceus even if it's not nearly as good as it could be, because GameFreak needs both social and monetary encouragement just like any company.

Anyway, we are were we are. No company is against us and the only time we screwed up as whenever we gave up on Geno or turned against our comrades. You can either burn and seeth about how you were wronged, or you can keep up your pursuit and do your best even in times that seem bleak.
 
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S1itchey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
148
This mindset is equally as toxic as those who hate on people's beloved characters. It's because you guys allow yourselves to feel this way, that your rather niche taste is ignored and thus the companies that own those IPs of your niches hate you that makes you sit and stew in this sludge of emotions. It may not be toxic to others at first, but if you let this eat away at you, you can easily turn into someone that lashes out are other's happiness. We've already had a few of those in this thread in the past.

I'm not trying to be mean either. Remember, the gap between Geno and Sora for me is massive, and I'm a guy that gets hype for every Smash reveal because new content is good. I think you just need to try and look at things from a brighter perspective: root for your most wanted, but have some form of happiness for what comes because it's still content for your favorite game at the end of the day. I know it's not a simple thing to do, but even if you have to practice it, just having a attitude where you focus on the good more than the bad will help you massively.

Now if Smash was getting the Monster Hunter Rise treatment where the game felt pretty half-baked, the story didn't have an ending until months after release, and all the free content was pointless and not worth playing...then I could understand being more upset, because at that point the company isn't even doing the bare minimum. Smash Ultimate is much more than the bare minimum. I still know it was rushed, but as for post-launch support this game is been mostly a precious gift.

I do think that we should all still talk about how we love Geno and SMRPG, how we want them to return, and how we are both greedy in the sense that we want SMRPG everywhere and in anything we can get it in but also mild-mannered enough that we will praise them heavily for what we do get even if it's not the most. The problem with the Geno Mii here is that we all have such backlash towards it (apparently both times it was revealed) instead of being incredibly grateful vocally while still making it clear we want him to be playable: many fans see this as a failure because he didn't make it as playable, but in reality any recognition is a miracle given the circumstances.

Giving up on Geno now or being angry at Square or Nintendo now is counter-productive: the character with the most red-tape in possibly our lifetimes just got confirmed to be playable in just under two weeks. This shows that Sakurai and Nintendo will work to get character request done, something B&K and to a much lesser extent Steve. This shows that even companies like Disney have their walls break down when Sakurai comes charging in, even if it took multiple attempts. Geno could be in the EXACT SAME SITUATION and we just need to stay strong until the next opportunity shows itself, be it Smash or a new SMRPG. Hell, we KNOW Sakurai already knows that we want him, so it's simply a matter of time until Sakurai breaks down those walls and Geno gets in. If Geno was a bigger and more popular character who was still relevant, he'd have gotten more votes. We did what we could, we got noticed, and now all we can do is show we still want it and make it clear. It's for this reason I support purchase of Legends Arceus even if it's not nearly as good as it could be, because GameFreak needs both social and monetary encouragement just like any company.

Anyway, we are were we are. No company is against us and the only time we screwed up as whenever we gave up on Geno or turned against our comrades. You can either burn and seeth about how you were wronged, or you can keep up your pursuit and do your best even in times that seem bleak.
I'm not saying that square and nintendo or sakurai are "against us" or that they're bad people but what I am saying is that while I can acknowledge that ultimate is a great game that has pleased alot of people (myself included) I can't just blindly like everything that comes to the game.

Unfortunately the only way that could happen is if geno was here. He's all I really wanted for the next smash after 4. I still appreciate the fact that the game gets new content, but I can't say I'm happy with what was chosen. I can't lie to myself and try to care or say that I'm fine with how Smash ultimate ended just because it's content.

If your happy with how Smash ended then that is completely fine. But I don't feel the same way.
 

kiteinthesky

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
902
Wait, Sora got the last spot? Well, whatever, that's okay, we can just hold out for next Smash and just make our own Geno content in the meantime.

The truth is, Geno's problem is time and it's up to us to build and maintain his popularity in the time between now and the next Smash so he and Super Mario RPG don't fade away. That's easily accomplished by just making our own canon for him and making our own content. We all ought to get together and make a wiki or a Slack or something so we can make quality content for him, come up with a collectively agreed upon characterization and canon, make up side characters or whatever, and just... make our own damn shows and games. With Blackjack. And hookers.

Seriously though, congrats to the Sora fans and I'm glad you guys got your boy in Smash.
 
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Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
376
we all knew about the 7 squares and 4 of them are already in smash
That would be contradictory in some aspects.

In the aspect of franchise, Geno is a Mario rep canddiate. Just he will keep having the chance in the long future as long as Nintendo is willnig to give Mario series special treat.

In the aspect of 3rd party participants, yes, NIntendo is in a good relation with Square Enix. Despite I would like to see Tomb Raider and Nier make it in the next round, I think fans of other companies are now aware of the imbalance. It's acceptable if NIntendo try to give some companies like Ubisoft a fair treat in the next round.
 
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Geno Boost

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,367
Location
Star Hill. Why do you ask?
That would be contradictory in some aspects.

In the aspect of franchise, Geno is a Mario rep canddiate. Just he will keep having the chance in the long future as long as Nintendo is willnig to give Mario series special treat.

In the aspect of 3rd party participants, yes, NIntendo is in a good relation with Square Enix. Despite I would like to see Tomb Raider and Nier make it in the next round, I think fans of other companies are now aware of the imbalance. It's acceptable if NIntendo try to give some companies like Ubisoft a fair treat in the next round.
The big difference between Geno and rest of Mario conditates is he require a negotiation and payment and 3rd party agreement which is why you have noticed that Geno Mii costume couldn’t return in the base game while Toad mii costume did return in base game
He is treated just like any 3rd party rep despite being a Mario character.
His competitor are not Mario characters.
If there wasn’t a demand for Geno he wouldn’t ever make any type of appearance in smash.
 
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Forthestarcapelad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
120
Still can't believe Geno, star of the Kingdom Hearts franchise™, finally made it in. We did it guys. We saved Smash.
 

Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
376
He is treated just like any 3rd party rep despite being a Mario character.
His competitor are not Mario characters.
I don't agree tho. If Geno actually makes it in, I would still count it as a Mario series character, since in that case Nintendo shouldn't add too many other Mario series reps which would displease fans of other series.

Also I like him because of his exeperience with Mario in the original game, saying that he isn't from Mario series seems to deny his actual origin, that doesn't work for me. Unless Square is willing to give him a new advanture in some other new games like FF or Chocobo titles.
 

SSGuy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
2,683
Location
Dallas, TX/FGCU
3DS FC
4871-4520-9643
I think the only part that would have made me more bitter is that if the flame Mario was picking up was just a ray of light. It would have given me Star Hill wish vibes only to instead turn into Mouse Ears.
 

Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
376
I think the only part that would have made me more bitter is that if the flame Mario was picking up was just a ray of light. It would have given me Star Hill wish vibes only to instead turn into Mouse Ears.
Althought we didn't notice it at first, the trailer shows all Smash fighters because it wants to hint that the last fighter is from another crossover.

If it's a trailer for Mario franchise, I think it would only be located in a Mario-verse scene in order to focus on the character.
 

SSGuy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
2,683
Location
Dallas, TX/FGCU
3DS FC
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Althought we didn't notice it at first, the trailer shows all Smash fighters because it wants to hint that the last fighter is from another crossover.

If it's a trailer for Mario franchise, I think it would only be located in a Mario-verse scene in order to focus on the character.
True. The only other thing that made me wonder looking back were how everyone was practically an amiibo or a toy version of themselves. Like I said, it would just need to be a small ray of light to really get me thinking what could have been.
 

Qeomash

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
322
Well, here we are again. At the end of Smash. Yet another Smash game without Geno truly getting in. A familiar melancholy.

I will continue to hope that Geno gets in next time. There will be a next time, there always is. And I will never stop hoping for the characters I want. Because I know they'd be incredibly fun to play in Smash Bros.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
555
This mindset is equally as toxic as those who hate on people's beloved characters. It's because you guys allow yourselves to feel this way, that your rather niche taste is ignored and thus the companies that own those IPs of your niches hate you that makes you sit and stew in this sludge of emotions.
You say that ignoring the fact that I said Geno being in actually wouldn't actually change much

I'm not trying to be mean either. Remember, the gap between Geno and Sora for me is massive, and I'm a guy that gets hype for every Smash reveal because new content is good. I think you just need to try and look at things from a brighter perspective: root for your most wanted, but have some form of happiness for what comes because it's still content for your favorite game at the end of the day. I know it's not a simple thing to do, but even if you have to practice it, just having a attitude where you focus on the good more than the bad will help you massively.
Idk, when the bad massively outweighs the good like I mentioned before with all those issues, its kind of impossible. Especially when people dunked on others for wanting content

Now if Smash was getting the Monster Hunter Rise treatment where the game felt pretty half-baked, the story didn't have an ending until months after release, and all the free content was pointless and not worth playing...then I could understand being more upset, because at that point the company isn't even doing the bare minimum. Smash Ultimate is much more than the bare minimum. I still know it was rushed, but as for post-launch support this game is been mostly a precious gift.
I don't agree about this point either. Smash Ult had a chance to expand on its story like some trailers implied but decided not as well.

The problem with the Geno Mii here is that we all have such backlash towards it (apparently both times it was revealed) instead of being incredibly grateful vocally while still making it clear we want him to be playable: many fans see this as a failure because he didn't make it as playable, but in reality any recognition is a miracle given the circumstances.
It's a product of being sold with a price. Wdym "Grateful". Smash fans always use this line as if DLC is a charity when it ain't. Its still a product that want our hard-earned cash. If the product isn't up to par then we have the right to complain about it. The costume didn't even come with a head like others did so honesty it was half done.

Giving up on Geno now or being angry at Square or Nintendo now is counter-productive: the character with the most red-tape in possibly our lifetimes just got confirmed to be playable in just under two weeks.
I'm not giving up on Geno but there is so long of this "hype train" one can take.
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
I'm not saying that square and nintendo or sakurai are "against us" or that they're bad people but what I am saying is that while I can acknowledge that ultimate is a great game that has pleased alot of people (myself included) I can't just blindly like everything that comes to the game.

Unfortunately the only way that could happen is if geno was here. He's all I really wanted for the next smash after 4. I still appreciate the fact that the game gets new content, but I can't say I'm happy with what was chosen. I can't lie to myself and try to care or say that I'm fine with how Smash ultimate ended just because it's content.

If your happy with how Smash ended then that is completely fine. But I don't feel the same way.
Happy is subjective, accepting and content is another thing entirely.

I may just be different or was raised different, but other people's happiness is something that I can get behind and it gets me happy. It's probably not healthy to not value my own happiness over others in the long run, but it works for now and I'll worry about that later.

The way I see it is that Nintendo is still in the process of figuring out how marketable SMRPG is. The last time it was given any treatment on social media really was in 2018. It received a lot of positive feedback but it's merely only 2021 now: if they decided that the ballot votes in 2015 and Sakurai's statement in 2016 combined with their tweet in 2018 was enough to warrant a revival or second dive into the series, games don't magically appear out of thin air. It's been just over a year since Origami King, which got only little praise for the small things it did to be more like previous games and a lot of negative feedback for what didn't change. Square is working on FF7R, Origins, FF16 and Forsaken while Nintendo is just finally getting Bayo 3 out and has a new Kirby game that FINALLY gives us a true 3D platform for the franchise while still trying to fix Prime 4.

Sakurai was pressured into making sure Steve got in, had to (and wanted to) shill for Dragon Quest, was forced into Byleth, plugged holes with Min-Min, Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra, and worked with Disney to get Sora in because we the Smash community as a whole asked for the impossible and he felt like he had to make sure he got it done. He owed a Tekken character to Bamco, snuck in Joker, somehow got Banjo & Kazooie in the game, shrunk down Ridley, let the King of the Kremlings rock out, got Castlevania's dope music into the game, and brought back all our most beloved Smash veterans.

What I'm trying to say is, and I know this is gonna hurt, but all of these things are just a bigger deal than Geno and SMRPG overall.

Look at all these things and tell me how we can possibly compare to them at this point. Hell, our active thread got locked and now we are a shell of our former selves here. I've had Geno fans trash me online because I never gave up on him, trying to FORCE me to think the same pessimistic way they do. Not only did we just not compare to these things in our prime, but we certainly don't add up to much now.

All this means is that we need to band back together and push as hard or harder than we already did before and wait for results while we do.

You say that ignoring the fact that I said Geno being in actually wouldn't actually change much
I was never speaking towards you, nor did I read your post, I was talking to someone else. But, while we are here...

If you think that Ultimate has done so poorly that even Geno getting in couldn't fix it and you are a Geno/SMRPG fan, feel free to think that.

Pretty much everyone else on the planet disagrees though, and I encourage you to take a step outside your current mindset and try a more optimistic one.

Idk, when the bad massively outweighs the good like I mentioned before with all those issues, its kind of impossible. Especially when people dunked on others for wanting content
I never read nor responded to you post, so I'm not sure what issues you are talking about.

reads post

Gonna be honest, seems like you are mostly just kinda venting here...but, most of your problems seem to be with the Smash community and what being deep into it everyday does to you rather than Ultimate itself. Everything you mentioned in that first paragraph is a community problem and actually has NOTHING to do with Smash as far as the game itself goes. If you let stuff like sexual allegations (remember that many of them weren't involving minors and that for as many were 'confirmed' many were simply left at allegations and some were outright lies or manipulation of the truth, like Nairo), bad memes and hating on each other's character wishes ruin how you feel about the game itself, that means you are unable to separate the community from the game, which is a 'you problem' and you have to do something about that yourself.

Smash is just Smash, and you can play it and love it without ever talking to someone online about it.

I don't agree about this point either. Smash Ult had a chance to expand on its story like some trailers implied but decided not as well.
Except it didn't. The DLC was agreed upon what it would provide, and none of it was WoL content. Honestly, story wise and cutscene wise, they had neither the manpower nor the budget to accomplish that. May I remind you that the story mode being like this is most likely due to the game being rushed to meet the 2018 quota, so if you want to point fingers there you can point fingers at Kimishima for not allowing a delay for Smash and it being basically done by the time Furakawa took office so it made no sense to delay it.

I see you also have qualms about the DLC choices, but your complaints make no sense. They are going to pick what is popular and marketable, and if you look it's mostly platformers and RPG characters that people are asking for. This is because RPGs are built for you to bond with the characters in the story and platformers are meant to have characters that do this to an extent but they have this weird strength that expands over time due to bonds from younger years. There are exceptions like Waluigi and Phoenix Wright or an FPS character, but most of them fit the above description. Your criteria seems off-base and worried about things outside of just 'characters people want' which to me is just the wrong mindset to have.

It's a product of being sold with a price. Wdym "Grateful". Smash fans always use this line as if DLC is a charity when it ain't. Its still a product that want our hard-earned cash. If the product isn't up to par then we have the right to complain about it. The costume didn't even come with a head like others did so honesty it was half done.
Yeah yeah, I've been on both sides of the argument in the past. I get it, really I do, especially as someone who is very much against common predatory practices by video game companies as of late. However, as I mentioned in my other reply Stitchey, there comes a time when you have to acknowledge how popular the thing you love really is and accept your position.

Geno is from SMRPG, a dead franchise that never got a true sequel as SMRPG2 turned into Paper Mario. It's 25 years old and has been locked up in this weird vault that is co-owned by Nintendo and Square. It has no marketable value outside of upset Paper Mario fans and a smaller group of people like us who are small in number in comparison to what everyone else is asking for and, depending on what you choose to believe, sending mixed singles about what we want. Geno's last appearance was a minor cameo in a Mario & Luigi game that got removed in the remake. Our own fan base keeps losing their collective minds every Smash game he misses and keeps fracturing itself, tearing itself apart, and isolating itself from other similar support groups whether we make an effort to do so or not.

Now, you tell me: is it a miracle we got any recognition at all, or not? Because to me, I thought Nintendo didn't care at all until I saw that Mii Costume in 2015. I was in tears shouting 'They remember him! They HEARD us, they remember him!' and all I saw here were people pissed off saying they wouldn't buy the skin because he wasn't playable, which seemingly has echoed true yet again this time around.

Also, they are reselling old assets. Not sure what you were expecting here, because I wasn't expecting any touch ups at all.

I've been insulted around here by being told I'm out of touch with reality simply because I have always believed Geno's chances to be good, which is frankly just reality because we have pushed him that far over the decades. I think Geno fans thinking that Geno or SMRPG and their want for it competing with some of these big names and franchises are the ones that are delusional. No one but US brought him here: no marketing, no new games nothing. Geno is a nobody and his game is lost to time without us, so thinking what we want is of the same caliber it ridiculous.

We have to fight for what we want and never stop to make it real. Just look at how Ridley, K. Rool, Simon and B&K got in. To some extent you can give Sora fans the credit for pushing Sora into Smash because even thought it's a big franchise it was deemed impossible but it was made possible because he was the most requested.

I'm not giving up on Geno but there is so long of this "hype train" one can take.
Good, don't give up. You have to take it what comes with being a vocal Geno fan up until we make it reality.

Ridley fans were mocked. K. Rool fans were mocked. Castlevania fans were mocked. Joker fans were mocked. DQ fans were mocked. Banjo fans were mocked. Steve fans were mocked. Sora fans were mocked. It didn't stop them, and look where they sit now.

We need to keep this up too. I think if we do, we are going to see results sooner than we might expect, though not as soon as we would like.
 

kiteinthesky

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What's vitally important is that we remember how much serious progress we've made in this regard.

The only reason any Square character is in Smash AT ALL is because of us raising a ruckus over the years. We're literally one of the Big Reasons Square and Nintendo buried the hatchet, making the Geno Mii costume, Cloud, Sephiroth, and Sora even possible.

It's just a popularity problem at this point. Time's worked against our boy and the fact that he hasn't been in any games since his M&L:SS cameo is working against him, becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. But with fan content and enough exposure, we can rectify that.

So in the subsequent few years between now and the next Smash, let's band together, take back our beloved star boi and make him great. Ourselves. With our own canon and content.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Sakurai was pressured into making sure Steve got in, had to (and wanted to) shill for Dragon Quest, was forced into Byleth, plugged holes with Min-Min, Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra, and worked with Disney to get Sora in because we the Smash community as a whole asked for the impossible and he felt like he had to make sure he got it done. He owed a Tekken character to Bamco, snuck in Joker, somehow got Banjo & Kazooie in the game, shrunk down Ridley, let the King of the Kremlings rock out, got Castlevania's dope music into the game, and brought back all our most beloved Smash veterans.

What I'm trying to say is, and I know this is gonna hurt, but all of these things are just a bigger deal than Geno and SMRPG overall.

Look at all these things and tell me how we can possibly compare to them at this point. Hell, our active thread got locked and now we are a shell of our former selves here. I've had Geno fans trash me online because I never gave up on him, trying to FORCE me to think the same pessimistic way they do. Not only did we just not compare to these things in our
prime, but we certainly don't add up to much now.
How does one complain about "pessimistic ways" yet say Geno wasn't a big deal? If he wasn't, then what was the whole point of this movement and support in the first place? Which also weird as you also mention Banjo and K.Rool who are also less relevant. Honestly, I have no idea why the first thread was locked. Maybe because they wanted to slow down the momentum of us Geno fans and leave us in this state. One of prominent members [REDACTED] is now banned from the site and is never to be seen again. Funny it was around December too when people like him needed the most. Guess we will never know...


I was never speaking towards you, nor did I read your post, I was talking to someone else. But, while we are here...

If you think that Ultimate has done so poorly that even Geno getting in couldn't fix it and you are a Geno/SMRPG fan, feel free to think that.

Pretty much everyone else on the planet disagrees though, and I encourage you to take a step outside your current mindset and try a more optimistic one.
I assumed you were referring to both of us, my mistake.

Also you got source for that last line? Never knew Smash Ult sold 7.5 billion copies. Maybe you are stuck in a certain mind-set because not everyone is a blind fanboy that just accepts anything that comes from massive corporations (I thought this forum would've been a great example). Some of us like thinking of a critical eye and aren't too happy. Plus i'm referring to mostly just DLC anyways.


Gonna be honest, seems like you are mostly just kinda venting here...but, most of your problems seem to be with the Smash community and what being deep into it everyday does to you rather than Ultimate itself. Everything you mentioned in that first paragraph is a community problem and actually has NOTHING to do with Smash as far as the game itself goes. If you let stuff like sexual allegations (remember that many of them weren't involving minors and that for as many were 'confirmed' many were simply left at allegations and some were outright lies or manipulation of the truth, like Nairo), bad memes and hating on each other's character wishes ruin how you feel about the game itself, that means you are unable to separate the community from the game, which is a 'you problem' and you have to do something about that yourself.

Smash is just Smash, and you can play it and love it without ever talking to someone online about it.
You say as if all the stuff mentioned wasn't deeply attached to this Ultimate DLC season. Has nothing to with Smash yet you refer to as the SMASH Community. Contradictory no? Also side note, so because some didn't involve minors, it just makes said allegations ok? Just say to the victim "Separate the game from the community, it's a you problem" huh?

Not easy when most of it in your face 24/7. One ForSmash account rn is now getting **** on and even accused of being a sociopath just for saying he was bummed his character wasn't in but he alright with Sora. It's just a "You problem" then too huh?

Except it didn't. The DLC was agreed upon what it would provide, and none of it was WoL content. Honestly, story wise and cutscene wise, they had neither the manpower nor the budget to accomplish that. May I remind you that the story mode being like this is most likely due to the game being rushed to meet the 2018 quota,
Why do you think I said for DLC, not the base game. Already knew all of it but could they have time if they had One Vol. and not 2.

I see you also have qualms about the DLC choices, but your complaints make no sense. They are going to pick what is popular and marketable, and if you look it's mostly platformers and RPG characters that people are asking for. This is because RPGs are built for you to bond with the characters in the story and platformers are meant to have characters that do this to an extent but they have this weird strength that expands over time due to bonds from younger years. There are exceptions like Waluigi and Phoenix Wright or an FPS character, but most of them fit the above description. Your criteria seems off-base and worried about things outside of just 'characters people want' which to me is just the wrong mindset to have.
So what? This is what Smash Bros is now? Not a fun crossover containing our favorite characters and great modes but instead just a massive marketing campaign for faceless corporations to jerk off too? This reasoning is the reason why Nintendo should've never got involved with character choices. Despite being good terms with them, Sakurai still chooses with the players in mind. No doubt characters like Geno and Crash would've been a lock with him at helm


Geno is from SMRPG, a dead franchise that never got a true sequel as SMRPG2 turned into Paper Mario. It's 25 years old and has been locked up in this weird vault that is co-owned by Nintendo and Square. It has no marketable value outside of upset Paper Mario fans and a smaller group of people like us who are small in number in comparison to what everyone else is asking for and, depending on what you choose to believe, sending mixed singles about what we want. Geno's last appearance was a minor cameo in a Mario & Luigi game that got removed in the remake. Our own fan base keeps losing their collective minds every Smash game he misses and keeps fracturing itself, tearing itself apart, and isolating itself from other similar support groups whether we make an effort to do so or not.
So give up basically?

Now, you tell me: is it a miracle we got any recognition at all, or not?
they are reselling old assets.

Not sure what you were expecting here.
Something to show they cared. "Geno wasn't possible this time but here, we have touch his head and made him deluxe to make feel like you playing as him"

Regardless of the Geno stuff, most of us can say the DLC season and came from it was awful anyways. This "ride" was mess. Makes me wish there wasn't another Smash game again.

What's vitally important is that we remember how much serious progress we've made in this regard.
What progress? We are the same position we were at 4. In fact its more of a regression with more hate on our backs and less vocal support from failure and bans.
 
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SSGuy

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What progress? We are the same position we were at 4. In fact its more of a regression with more hate on our backs and less vocal support from failure and bans.
While I do think detractors have unfairly censored our support and get away with constant character defamation on this platform, I don't necessarily think our support has diminished. Ridley didn't see much fall off after his ban.
 

Firox

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Then as said, Geno techinically lost to Plant Piranha, and I do think fans have a good reason to be mad.

On the other hand, I think Geno, as a NIntendo game series character, somewhat should have a higher priority than Sora and Sephiroth, espeically the latter when neither one represents a brand new franchise. As mentioned before, my main critique is that Geno doesn't get any benefit despite Nintendo and Square are willing to do more collaboration.
I think you're right, Geno basically lost to Piranha Plant, and I'm going to be honest, I'll never forgive Sakurai/Nintendo/SE for that. I know that PP is someone a lot of people didn't know they wanted, but let's be blatantly honest here, the reason why virtually nobody expected it was because nobody considered Plant as a legit character prior to its Smash inclusion. There is an absolute plethora of more significant Mario characters, even among the generic enemies, but Sakurai seems to have gone with Plant for the sheer novelty of its moveset. While I understand his logic and apparent desire for a WTF character, I personally think it was a dumb move in the sense of how many other characters didn't have the chance to get in because of it. We don't know for sure who's fault it really was, but make no mistake, someone just wanted to do the puppet boy dirty. And sure, arguments can be made about his relevance and what kind of future investment, if any, it would be to include him, but at the end of the day, they knew damn well he was wanted and consciously chose to give him the bone. Everyone has to make peace with that in their own way, but it will always be the tragic "what if?" in an otherwise amazing game. Still, as I've said, Sephiroth and Sora are some epic consolation prizes at least.
 

Megadoomer

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I think you're right, Geno basically lost to Piranha Plant, and I'm going to be honest, I'll never forgive Sakurai/Nintendo/SE for that. I know that PP is someone a lot of people didn't know they wanted, but let's be blatantly honest here, the reason why virtually nobody expected it was because nobody considered Plant as a legit character prior to its Smash inclusion. There is an absolute plethora of more significant Mario characters, even among the generic enemies, but Sakurai seems to have gone with Plant for the sheer novelty of its moveset. While I understand his logic and apparent desire for a WTF character, I personally think it was a dumb move in the sense of how many other characters didn't have the chance to get in because of it. We don't know for sure who's fault it really was, but make no mistake, someone just wanted to do the puppet boy dirty. And sure, arguments can be made about his relevance and what kind of future investment, if any, it would be to include him, but at the end of the day, they knew damn well he was wanted and consciously chose to give him the bone. Everyone has to make peace with that in their own way, but it will always be the tragic "what if?" in an otherwise amazing game. Still, as I've said, Sephiroth and Sora are some epic consolation prizes at least.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Nintendo doesn't own Geno, so Piranha Plant making it into the game has nothing to do with him. Hero and Sephiroth made it in instead of Geno (since all three characters are owned by Square-Enix), and I don't think anyone would question why Hero made it in over Geno.

A second Final Fantasy 7 character was unexpected, but I'm not sure if it was either that or we didn't get Everyone Is Here - it's been said that we almost didn't get that, and Square-Enix seems like the most likely culprit, considering that Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, and Namco-Bandai don't seem like they'd be any problem, and Konami included a lot of Castlevania content in the base game, so I'm not sure if they'd be the issue.
 
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JarBear

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Geno is just like any other third party character, even if he is "meant" to be a Mario "character" in the game. So here is to hoping the "next" smash game Nintendo will pursue him for the fans who've wanted him for a long, long time.

(I personally think, if there is another Smash game, it wont have as a big of a roster or as many third party or go through as much hurdles. But, just a guess.)
 

kiteinthesky

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I'm going to have to start writing motivational speeches to start cheering the other Genobros up again, aren't I?

sigh Where did I put my public speaking books?
 

Nabbitfan730

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While I do think detractors have unfairly censored our support and get away with constant character defamation on this platform, I don't necessarily think our support has diminished. Ridley didn't see much fall off after his ban.
Ridley got in though

I think you're right, Geno basically lost to Piranha Plant, and I'm going to be honest, I'll never forgive Sakurai/Nintendo/SE for that. I know that PP is someone a lot of people didn't know they wanted, but let's be blatantly honest here, the reason why virtually nobody expected it was because nobody considered Plant as a legit character prior to its Smash inclusion.
I didn't want Plant at the first but honestly he was the better of characters:

Free
Cartoony-like so he stands out
Great Moveset
Not a Protagonist and is an Enemy
More original Final Smash
 

Firox

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As an aside, I think it's interesting that SE now has the most 3rd party representation in Smash. Sure, Sora technically belongs to Disney but SE still retains some of the creative rights to him. That said, I can't really think of any more super-priority SE characters that would directly impede Geno's inclusion in the future assuming the next Smash doesn't cut tons of characters in general.
 

regulus tera

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The more I think about it, the more I feel like Geno fans should push for him to be included in Chocobo GP instead of Smash. Square won't even think about sharing this character with Nintendo unless they cement him into something else first, and Chocobo GP already has the perfect conceit to revive Geno short of a SMRPG revival.
 
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Forthestarcapelad

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Ridley got in though



I didn't want Plant at the first but honestly he was the better of characters:

Free
Cartoony-like so he stands out
Great Moveset
Not a Protagonist and is an Enemy
More original Final Smash
Yeah, at the very least the final smash in particular is a nice reference to subspace, and lets me assume that it's actually Petey Piranha. Doesn't make much sense, but shhhhh let me cope.
 

ForsakenM

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Gotta say, yall are at least being a little bit more mature then peoole saying they arent playing smash again because Sora is in the game that Im seeing on twitter, cheers to that
Imagine not playing a really good video game that you played before just because the most impossible of impossible characters made it in.

Wild.
 

Firox

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The more I think about it, the more I feel like Geno fans should push for him to be included in Chocobo GP instead of Smash. Square won't even think about sharing this character with Nintendo unless they cement him into something else first, and Chocobo GP already has the perfect conceit to revive Geno short of a SMRPG revival.
This....is actually a freaking awesome idea! Chocobo GP is the perfect kind of SE mashup that Geno could fit in! If we could coax SE into using him somehow, that could open up his chances for returning to Nintendo IP's!
 

kiteinthesky

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Messages
902
This....is actually a freaking awesome idea! Chocobo GP is the perfect kind of SE mashup that Geno could fit in! If we could coax SE into using him somehow, that could open up his chances for returning to Nintendo IP's!
Or Square ones. Geno would be really cool in Kingdom Hearts. Not gonna front at all about that.

Are they still taking suggestions for characters? Let's whip up a petition on Change.org and flood the thing with signatures as we Genobros are so wont to do.
 
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