Yoshi-Thomas
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Next to Earthbound.
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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)
- Thread starter Megadoomer
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helloiamhere
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Right behind Earthbound and 1000000000000 shovelware titles
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To be fair, the term alleged fan often comes off as a No True Scotsman fallacy. It's understandable why the response is that way. Generally, ForsakenM, you should check what words you use, since many have different meanings. Policing your own comments a little goes a long way.
I absolutely got the impression you were telling them they weren't a "real" fan. I'd suggest specifying the full thing of what you mean in the first post if you use unique terms like that to prevent confusion. Besides, you do write long posts, so it's not like you don't have time to throw it in there. And I mean that as a good thing. Long posts are fine with me(just split 'em up in paragraphs).
I absolutely got the impression you were telling them they weren't a "real" fan. I'd suggest specifying the full thing of what you mean in the first post if you use unique terms like that to prevent confusion. Besides, you do write long posts, so it's not like you don't have time to throw it in there. And I mean that as a good thing. Long posts are fine with me(just split 'em up in paragraphs).
Icewolff92
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Í´m with you. The fact that he didn´t even get a Deluxe treatment is what stings the most :/. But then again, since every other Smash 4 has been the same with a slight update it should have been obvious that Geno would have gotten the same treatment tbh....
But yes, I do agree that it's a bit surprising that Square Enix didn´t ride on the way of Super Mario's 35th anniversary with relating a port of SMRPG. Yes, the entire notion of SMRPG getting on NSO is rather ridiculous considering there is no Square title in NSO. There are only ports.
Vector Victor
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The only true Geno fan is the box fan that blows in front of Geno so his cape can do that dramatic flowing motion even indoors.
Icewolff92
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So what are people's thoughts about this whole idea of that "calendar theory" that points, if true to a May reveal?
Yoshi-Thomas
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I don't think it was a serious theory to begin with. Steve was definitely delayed, so he would have released somewhere in September.
Really it was just a funny coincidence.
Dan
Smash Lord
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It is so much like the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame; I can't even begin to explain. Geno is my Todd Rundgren (a cult hero who finally got in the Hall, much like Geno waiting his turn for Smash).
Idk how much I should get into it cause I'm assuming people here don't really care about it but you have all these old artists (J. Geils Band, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, MC5, Motorhead, The Spinners, etc.) who need to be in there, yet they put Jay-Z in in his first year of eligibility, along with the Foo Fighters (who should be in but need to wait for some of these older artists to get in).
Overall, your post was very good. You are speaking my language.
I was gonna agree with this, but I'm actually gonna disagree cause they're doing the total opposite by putting in characters hardly requested or that absolutely no one asked for (Plant -- also overloading on FE representation and other past foolish nonsense such as lying about Bayonetta winning the ballot).
They could please a massive bulk (like 75%) by purely using the ballot. My personal preference for Ultimate would've been for every 5 newcomers, 4 should be ballot and 1 should be whatever the staff wants. They would've pleased a lot more people if they did Geno, Isaac and Shadow instead of Plant, Byleth and Ken.
lmao.
This is valid -- this I am fine with. In a future Smash game his chances are as good as ever, but with two spots left and the costume brought back so recently you are just fooling yourself into believing.
So you are pretty much 99.99% convinced he is one of the two remaining characters?
10+ years is not immediately.
It is fine you still think he has a chance, but comments like "should the nigh-impossible happen and he doesn't make it to this game" reek of absolute trollishness. All I have to say is you best prepare for the "nigh-impossible". I hope the suits at Nintendo who didn't even know people still like K. Rool prove me wrong.
So you are so sure he's getting in, yet are gatekeeping the position he'll be revealed in.
I'm not even gonna address the part about Waluigi lol.
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Icewolff92
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You are missing a key part here. Super Smash Brothers have sold over 23 million copies. Us hardcore fans that push for characters are a fraction of that. The majority of the sales numbers come from the casuals. We hardcore is at best 5%. As far as we know, Geno and Isaac could just be popular pics among the hardcore while the casuals find them as literal whos and end up annoyed that they were chosen over well, Luffy, Son Goku, and Naruto that has a lot of unironical support (not to mention, they are all in Super Smash Bros Flash). I mean, just look at how people were "hyping up" what people thought was Crunchyroll that Son Goku was about to get revealed soon. And while hardcore is annoyed by the amount of Fire Emblem, there are others that love their inclusion. I do agree though that I have a hard time believing Bayonetta winning the ballot. But even she got a massive amount of people happy because she was their most wanted.
This whole mentality is just "because it's big in our group, it has to be big overall".
There is a big reason why Mii Fighters exist in the first place because Sakurai (as well as Nintendo) knows that, even though they would love it.. they can´t please everyone, and they never can.
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ivanlerma
Smash Champion
understanding words.....yet unagreeable to some.
Shroob
Sup?
Just passing through really, but this is basically how the DLC is being treated, you're correct.
You will get a bone thrown here or there yes(Banjo, Steve to some, Hero and Pyra/Mythra to Japan especially), but the DLC's main goal is to rope more people into buying Smash. Hell, I know a guy who says he'll buy a Switch, a copy of Smash, and BOTH Fighter's Passes if they reveal Master Chief as CP10 or 11, and he's dead serious about it.
As much as I'd love the DLC to focus on the hardcore fanbase's desires, I'm also not blind to see that it's very clearly meant to rope in people who wouldn't normally be into Smash, or to promote Nintendo's newest games either, that's just Capitalism. And to that, it's doing what it needs to do, the DLC has been, according to Nintendo's own words, a big success. I'd love characters like Isaac myself, but I'm not crazy enough to think Isaac has a shot when he's both an Assist Trophy, and Golden Sun is as dead as can be, with Camelot being stuck in Mario sports game spinoff hell.
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Icewolff92
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Exactly. If there is A character that should have been a sign of Nintendo wanting to get new blood into the franchise, it should have been Joker. He wasn´t exactly a hardcore fanbase request at the time.
Sure, we got Banjo, but that could just have been because Phill Spencer was well aware of the requests, and not Nintendo. I mean, it took Nintendo apparently 5 years to negotiate for Steve, yet Banjo got in first, and Microsoft owned both when the negotiations for Steve supposedly started. So with this in mind, it shouldn't be so shocking for us all things considered when Dart Vader of videogame villains send us Geno fans despair during last year's VGA no matter how much it sucks.
It is just like comic book fandom. People say that "character x is super popular within the comic book community so it has to be known worldwide", whereas 9.9/10 it is certainly not.
Shroob
Sup?
That's how I've kinda looked at the DLC as well.
Of course, Nintendo's going to use the DLC to promote their own games, Byleth, Min Min and P/M, which coincidentally are all from Switch titles, but truthfully, aside from Banjo and Steve, I can barely remember any times that characters like Joker, Hero, Terry or Sephiroth were ever brought up in a serious discussion in the hardcore speculation scene, with a myriad of reasons as to "why" they can't join, or in Terry's case, a near-lack of discussion at all. Hell, of those 4, Hero only got a lot of spotlight due to a leak, and people still fought for months over the validity of Dragon Quest getting in at all.
I definitely do agree that the DLC, at least on the 3rd-party side(The 1st party side is definitely more "Nintendo Switch has games!"-tier), is being used more as an incentive for people who don't have a huge investment in Smash to try out Smash due to a character they like being in, along with their own iconicness... which in hindsight, may be an issue for Geno. I don't think it's a fallacy to say that most Geno fans are also inherently Smash fans as well, and with that in mind, extending an olive branch in Geno's direction is basically doubling down towards people already invested in the game, it's not "fresh blood".
Now granted, Banjo and Sephiroth exist, Steve to a lesser degree, but Banjo's had long-term implications due to Nintendo and Microsoft's slowly but surely budding relationship, and feels like the first step towards a much larger goal for the future relationship between both companies, and Sephiroth pulls double time by fixing FF's frankly pitiful representation in Smash pre-him, along with a big, walking advert for FF7R as well. And as for Steve... well, we can all balk all we want, but Minecraft's the biggest game in the world, Steve appeals to everyone, Smash fans and non-Smash fans alike, almost certainly more of the latter just by sheer numbers alone. That isn't to say Geno is impossible no, but I do think that more fan-requested DLC is more "rare", especially if it's not trying to appeal to a wider audience, and times where it does happen with say, Japan with Pyra/Mythra, it serves the purpose of being a fan request sure, but it also works double-time as promotion.
Just my 2 cents, I definitely agree with where you're coming from.
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Dan
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But they can easily please more people than they're pleasing now. Smash is a brand a people will buy it no matter what. Look at the amount of dislikes on Byleth's video. They're not trying. You could take Geno and Isaac and replace them with Crash, Doomguy, Master Chief, Waluigi, etc. for all I care.
Also, they should've done more deluxe Mii's... total wasted potential. No one really cares about them otherwise. Skull Kid was a good non-deluxe from launch though.
I guess there-in lies my problem: that the Smash DLC is meant to cater to people who don't care about Smash. Obviously every character has fans, but most of these DLC picks were not big requests. Basically what Shroob said:
Shroob
Sup?
That's Capitalism for you.
Truthfully, I like the Dlc, but you're completely valid in disliking it as well. Just because I'm happy with the Dlc doesn't mean you should feel obliged to be happy, or that others should tell you to be either. Voicing you disdain is very fine.
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Icewolff92
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Like me point that out again. Just because we hardcore does hear specific stuff doesn´t mean that a specific group doesn´t exist either. There could be a way bigger crowd than what we imagine of people that jumped out of joy when Byleth, Ken, or even Plant was announced because they were their most wanted. Just because it didn´t come up in a positive light/at all, doesn´t mean that there automatically wasn´t a big support group for "character x". Everyone doesn´t spend days, months if not years on the likes of Smashboards discussing the game with other fans as we do
To go back to the comic book world. How many non-comic book readers do you think to know that James Gordon has taken up the mantle of Batman in comics a couple of years ago? Let alone Richard Grayson (aka the first Robin) and Bane.? Those are slim to non. We cannot just throw out names and believe that they are the only ones that have "big supporters", when we are only a fraction of the player base in comparison,
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Awkwah
Smash Apprentice
Cool to see this thread is still active and totally not Doomed. Just a waiting game till E3 to see what we got :D
Dan
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Well, I mean the YouTube like ratio sure didn't show that, or Twitter feedback. At a certain point you have to use the evidence you have and not imagine things. Those are the two biggest platforms for gathering data out there. This isn't 1999 -- you can pretty safely gather a consensus from online data these days.
There could be a "way bigger crowd that jumped for joy when Byleth was revealed" (I'll give Plant a pass cause I'm pretty sure the majority did like it), but that's about as likely as Geno getting in Ultimate at this point.
Shroob
Sup?
I mean, let's look at the current official Byleth presentation's like/dislike ratio.Well, I mean the YouTube like ratio sure didn't show that, or Twitter feedback. At a certain point you have to use the evidence you have and not imagine things. Those are the two biggest platforms for gathering data out there. This isn't 1999 -- you can pretty safely gather a consensus from online data these days.
There could be a "way bigger crowd that jumped for joy when Byleth was revealed" (I'll give Plant a pass cause I'm pretty sure the majority did like it), but that's about as likely as Geno getting in Ultimate at this point.
147k likes to 89k dislikes.
Roughly, that's 236k, which yes, is a lot, but looking at Ultimate's current sales, 23.84 million, that 236k isn't even 1% of total sales. This number tells us that the 1% are neutral to unhappy about it(And even smaller if you only count the dislikes), but the 99% don't care enough to let their voice be heard. And that's the killer, only 1% of the playerbase are letting their voice be heard, while 99% aren't. If I were Nintendo, I'd see the Like/Dislike bar and shrug it off, since it's only 1%.
Now granted, not everyone buys the DLC, hell, in most games, only around 10-20% of the playerbase will buy the DLC, but no, looking at things like YouTube like/dislikes or Twitter comments is not a good metric, hell, the video has 3.4 MILLION views but only 236k Like/Dislikes. The silent majority will always outmatch the vocal minority(Us). That's not to say that the 1% can't be thrown a bone here or there, hell, I'd argue the base game threw us a lot of bones, but from a business' perspective, why would they bother with us, when they can attract new people? You get Banjo occasionally, but that's not the norm, and even for Banjo, I feel like there's more to his inclusion than just "do it for the fans" tbh.
Now, for Byleth, that's just marketing. FE3H was a new game, and Nintendo saw a way to promote their newest game. Smash is basically Nintendo's walking advertisement, so while I get that a lot of people are unhappy with it, it's really just business. Perhaps not good business in the eyes of the fans, but business nonetheless. You're very justified in disliking a very corporate move, but we also should acknowledge that Smash is basically a big cash cow advertisement platform.
Now, I'm not going to argue about Byleth's reception, since the initial burst was very negative, but the fact remains that less than 1% of the people who bought Ultimate voiced their opinions online, which in a vacuum seems huge, but it's really, really not. Our bark is a lot bigger than our bite.
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Icewolff92
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I couldn´t have worded it better myself. We need to realize that we are an extremely vocal minority against a major silent majority. Ultimate isn´t exactly an entry in niche franchise that sells only 5 mils at best per entry.
Shroob
Sup?
Sometimes, we spend soo much time on Reddit, Twitter, YouTube and forums that we forget that the game's sold almost 24 million copies, and the people online are just a fraction of those total sales; the majority of them not bothering with any online interactions at all outside of actually playing online. The online echo chamber seems louder than it actually is.
That's not to say that the echo chamber never works though, I mean, look at the base game, everyone is here, Ridley, Simon, K.Rool, but DLC is its own beast entirely, one much more built around profit and corporate elbow rubbing. Hell, I'm still not convinced that Banjo wasn't part of some bigger plan that Nintendo and Microsoft cooked up as their relationship as a team grows.
Of course, I'd love them to focus more on the hardcore fanbase, but, I may say something controversial here, unlike FP1, which felt more like including new IPs and things you wouldn't expect to see in Smash, FP2 actually 'has' felt like its been more focused around the fanbase specifically, just perhaps not in the way most would want it to be. While I'm not terribly fond of ARMs as a whole, ARMs was an IP that everyone thought was a lock for the base game, and Steve, Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra all appeal to various parts of the fanbase as well, be it Steve with his near universal appeal, Sephiroth to people longing for more Final Fantasy content, or Pyra/Mythra to Japan as a whole, with E3 fast approaching, it feels like FP2 is frankly on track to be quite a heavy-hitter.
There is an argument to be made that Min Min, Pyra and Mythra and the Final Fantasy content that Sephiroth brought should have been base game, but that's a different topic entirely.
In my opinion, at least.
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ivanlerma
Smash Champion
That claim will be officiant if Crash or/and Chief show up(Though there are other options who can work).
Icewolff92
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Does anyone have a guess who it could be? https://twitter.com/imranzomg/status/1396731857526349825
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ivanlerma
Smash Champion
Hmmm, after some quick thinking and careful guess work
I'd say this might point to the character revealing being......Ratchet & Clank
Icewolff92
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I was more talking about the company
Geno Boost
Smash Master
I have revived SMRPG Metal medley that has disappeared from YouTube I had the MP3 since 2016 so I decided to upload it now since the original video no longer available.
Anyway enjoy!
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ivanlerma
Smash Champion
um, sorry.
ivanlerma
Smash Champion
There are so many videos on youtube that i watched a long time ago that are no longer available, which i find extremely depressing.
Icewolff92
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Geno Boost
Smash Master
Same many videos that I pressed liked on it have been privated or deleted and can’t be viewed anymore majority are SMRPG related which I do press like on them I actually do have few more SMRPG videos that are gone from YouTube since I downloaded them however I have not posted them yet but I plan to post them soon.
ivanlerma
Smash Champion
That's Nice, I pretty did the same for some other videos too. I also tried the wayback machine to find some old youtube poops or slender playthroughs but to no avail.
I even drew a picture of an old spongebob youtube poop that isn't available anywhere.
Shroob
Sup?
Dunno if it's been answered or not, but the consensus seems to be Square.
It's either Square's E3 presentation video, or the Dragon Quest presentation that's coming this week, I dunno if anyone's said which.
It's not Nintendo-related, so it's eh.
Super10ZX
Smash Journeyman
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Thought it would be cool to share this here!
Here is the ending of the episode, where they mention "Geno Kart Deluxe".
— StageCraftBeast (R.O.B. needs his legs back) (@StageCraftBeast) May 23, 2021
(Footage provided by @Nixop )
I believe this was put in by the series creator, @Matt___Burnett , cause hes also a big fan of Geno, & it's his way of showing support. Let's send him thank you messages! https://t.co/hlvXJzXpfe pic.twitter.com/2sovbg0nfk
Icewolff92
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Nintendo is quieter than normal with what they are covering this year. Normally, they would say "this is what we are focusing on"
This is pretty awesome
ivanlerma
Smash Champion
Geez, They made this reference? That's Crazy!
Shroob
Sup?
Apparently according to Sakurai's newest Famitsu column, he says he's ending his column this year.
He says he'll still continue to make games/work on Ultimate, but honestly, with how hard he's hammered in "2 more presentations", and now this, it really, really does feel like he's setting the stage for everything to be wrapped up soon.
There should be a more accurate translation by PushDustin soon enough, just yoinked the info from the Newcomer thread by someone who can actually read Japanese.
He says he'll still continue to make games/work on Ultimate, but honestly, with how hard he's hammered in "2 more presentations", and now this, it really, really does feel like he's setting the stage for everything to be wrapped up soon.
There should be a more accurate translation by PushDustin soon enough, just yoinked the info from the Newcomer thread by someone who can actually read Japanese.
Loliko YnT
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Hey all , just dropping by to see how the thread is going. Glad to see some activity , even if it's at a lower rate.
E3 is soon. I'm wondering if something SMRPG related might happen there , even if the chances of it happening are completely unknwon. We got PM TOK last year , but it wasn't even considered an RPG by the official Nintendo website , so perhaps we'll get one this year. Then again , it could also be Mario and Luigi , since they now own the franchise after what happened to Alphadream.
Anyway , I still think an SMRPG remake is in the cards , considering how friendly Nintendo and SE are. A collaboration between the two will happen in the future imo.
I also found this , someone animated the "free will , chumps !" comic and all the added details are pretty funny ;
Iv'e also been playing a lot of Everhood as of late , and it's protagonist is reminding me of someone , can't tell who tho...
E3 is soon. I'm wondering if something SMRPG related might happen there , even if the chances of it happening are completely unknwon. We got PM TOK last year , but it wasn't even considered an RPG by the official Nintendo website , so perhaps we'll get one this year. Then again , it could also be Mario and Luigi , since they now own the franchise after what happened to Alphadream.
Anyway , I still think an SMRPG remake is in the cards , considering how friendly Nintendo and SE are. A collaboration between the two will happen in the future imo.
I also found this , someone animated the "free will , chumps !" comic and all the added details are pretty funny ;
Iv'e also been playing a lot of Everhood as of late , and it's protagonist is reminding me of someone , can't tell who tho...
Icewolff92
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To be fair, Masahiro Sakura feels like a nongrumpy version of Hayao Miyazaki. Miyazaki has said countless times that he is retiring only to then "I will do another movie" because he is such a workaholic. So while I do think this is a sign that there truly won´t be more DLC fighters, no matter what certain people claim, (at best he set focus on the online for a bit which he has said that he is going to work to make better when Small Battlefield got out) I don´t think he will stop working in general anytime soon
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Geno Boost
Smash Master
Smash DLC is a big success it’s able to sell better than many games so I am still hoping for fighter pass 3 also remember that Sakurai is still full of surprises
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Icewolff92
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I think that E3 is the exploration date of them announcing an FP3. If they won´t do it then, then these two are certainly the last two