Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

[Icewolff92]

What´s everyones prediction for E3 that is not Smash-related? My hope is SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2, and a new Mario Party.

Sakurai is kind of infamous for going back on his word. He's done it multiple times before. That said, after all the times he's said that this pass will be the definitive end of Ultimate DLC, if he ends up breaking his word this time, I'll have no choice but to conclude that his word means absolutely ****. That's not to say that we will or won't possibly get more DLC in some way, shape or form, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Has he gone back on his word before? Sure... but he has never hammered in something like this before until now. The closest thing has him pointing out that characters like Goku, Iron Man, or Batman will never join because of where they originated. For heck's sake, he is even planning on ending the Famitsu colume that he has done for 18 years once the next two DLC is released, which quite frankly is a big deal no matter how you slice it.. That should be the biggest signal that his work with Ultimate is almost over.

The only chance we have (and that is an extremely minuscule one) for more DLC, is if Nintendo has asked Sakurai for his blessing about Bamco continue creating characters for the game without his involvement. You might be asking, why would they need to ask Sakurai about his blessing? It's because Sakurai is too important of a partner for them, let alone such a big icon within the videogame industry, that they don´t want to lose him. Deciding to have Bamco creating DLC without him, without his blessing for his magnum opus that he dedicated his all for due to it being Iwata´s last request to him. THAT would be the ultimate (no pun intended) disrespect within the Japanese work culture.

If I were a betting man, I would go all-in on the fact that we are only getting two more. Before anyone mentions "bonus fighter"... I´m sorry, but that feels like just wishful thinking. If they have 3 more fighters ready, they could just have made this fighter pass having 7 characters instead of 6. That URL thing is more than likely just a "you can buy every character in this bundle" or at best a Mii Costume/Stage pack with missing stages.

Update - Smash Bros Japanese Twitter account just tweeted that there is going to be a tournament, that will rank the top 100 players with every 84 charachter
Yeah... everything points to that there is only 2 more

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1399923977825394688

 

[ivanlerma]

What´s everyones prediction for E3 that is not Smash-related? My hope is SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2, and a new Mario Party.

I'm gonna bank on the Donkey Kong Rumor Game, Mario Kart 9, Super Mario Party 2, Crash/Rayman in Smash, and so on.

 

[Megadoomer]

What´s everyones prediction for E3 that is not Smash-related? My hope is SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2, and a new Mario Party.

I just want/hope to see Bayonetta 3 news and (for non-Nintendo content) a Psychonauts 2 release date. I figure we'll get details on Age of Calamity's DLC, but given that they had nothing to show for it in the Direct a few months ago, I'm not sure if we'll get any significant amount of info on the Breath of the Wild sequel. (maybe an official title or a 30 second teaser, but that feels generous)

Hopefully we get a reveal that Mercury Steam is working on a 2D Metroid game, whether it's a remake of Fusion (as hinted at by the end of Samus Returns) or something unique. I've also seen rumours of a new Donkey Kong game, and whether that's 2D or 3D, I really hope it pans out.

Considering that it's Zelda's 35th anniversary, and it seems really unlikely that we're getting Breath of the Wild 2 this year, I'm thinking that we're going to get ports of Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD.

(also, Rare Replay on the Switch would be a dream come true for me, but I doubt that's happening)

 

[Icewolff92]

Nintendo has announced the date for their E3 presentation now and it's on June 15th

What I find interesting is that they talk about how its only about software and nothing about Smash Bros Ultimate character(s). Which in my opinion, if they don´t show anyone during E3, that could mean that they truly "blow their load" after Steve and Sepiroth and we are about to get at least one "Byleth" (looking at you Ayumi Tachibana )

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400089827501092867

 

[Paraster]

Nintendo has announced the date for their E3 presentation now and it's on June 15th

What I find interesting is that they talk about how its only about software and nothing about Smash Bros Ultimate character(s). Which in my opinion, if they don´t show anyone during E3, that could mean that they truly "blow their load" after Steve and Sepiroth and we are about to get at least one "Byleth" (looking at you Ayumi Tachibana )

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400089827501092867

I tried looking, and they didn't mention Smash characters in their initial tweet for E3 2019 either--look what we got then.

 

[ivanlerma]

Nintendo has announced the date for their E3 presentation now and it's on June 15th

What I find interesting is that they talk about how its only about software and nothing about Smash Bros Ultimate character(s). Which in my opinion, if they don´t show anyone during E3, that could mean that they truly "blow their load" after Steve and Sepiroth and we are about to get at least one "Byleth" (looking at you Ayumi Tachibana )

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400089827501092867

Hey Look, That's the Day After Death Battle's Link Vs. Cloud Strife Remake

 

[Icewolff92]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more Ayumi Tachibana makes a lot of sense

1. As someone that has played the remakes (which I wrote a review for, but am still waiting to be published xD), I can safely say that the remakes are not meant to be a one and done. If that was the cause, they might as well just have translated the original Famicon titles and called it a day. However, now they went out of their way to give it some darn good production quality in terms of animation budget for a visual novel, on top of making it fully voice acted with some big names when it comes to Japanese voice actors. And Nintendo isn´t shy to use Smash Brothers, be it both DLC and base game to push their franchises. I mean, it's because of Smash that Xenoblade and Fire Emblem got their feet here in the western market.

2. Smash Brothers have never ended on a bang. Jigglypuff was last for Smash 64, Game & Watch was last for Melee, Rob was last for Brawl, Duck Hunt Duo was last for the base game on WiiU/3DS, Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates was last for its DLC, Incineroar/Plant (depending on how you look at it considering there is an indication that points towards Plant were meant to be in the base game in the first place) was last for the base game of Ultimate, Byleth was the last character for the first fighters pass (and don´t get me wrong, I love playing as him considering I main him… but he was a bit anti-climatic reveal), and while Ayumi is extremely popular in Japan (which goes even more in her favor IMO) she isn´t exactly someone that you imagine when you think of the games DLC ending with a bang.

3. Going back to the whole Japan thing. I know that there is a lot of people that try to claim that we are getting both Crash and Chief because that would be the “ultimate ending” …. well, there is no way in hell that a Japanese company, whose main audience is Japan, would end on two western characters that are barely even known in Japan let alone popular. At best there will be one for the west, one for the east, like Hero & Banjo. Crash or Chief + Ayumi would fit that scenario

4. Going back to the whole “marketing thing”. She doesn´t have a spirit board. Something that Monster Hunter got pretty much right on cue when Monster Hunter Rise released, and the spirit board for Three Houses was mysteriously not there before Byleths reveal.

5. Sakurai is a fan of the series, and considering adding her to Smash Bros Melee, but decided not to due to FDC wasn´t a franchise that was going on, and it was at the time Japanese exclusive.

 

[S1itchey]

Nintendo has announced the date for their E3 presentation now and it's on June 15th

What I find interesting is that they talk about how its only about software and nothing about Smash Bros Ultimate character(s). Which in my opinion, if they don´t show anyone during E3, that could mean that they truly "blow their load" after Steve and Sepiroth and we are about to get at least one "Byleth" (looking at you Ayumi Tachibana )

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400089827501092867

They probably specified it was only about software to lower peoples expectations for a switch pro announcement

 

[volbound1700]

IceWolf is likely correct. I think FP # 10 has a great shot to be a Western Character for E3 but FP#11 is definitely going to be one that appeals to the Japanese audience and has little popularity in the West.

I think Masterchief has NO SHOT of getting into Smash and Crash's chances are slim. I think Rayman has a better shot than Crash.

The only hope for FP#11 would be to get a popular Japanese character that is also popular in the West (Ryu Hayabusa). Ryu Hayabusa would be the best bet to end the pass.

A Zelda character would also work.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Oh snap haven't been on here in forever. Glad to see the thread has been revived! How is everyone? Excited for June 15? I'm hoping for Smash and Metroid Prime 4 news.

 

[volbound1700]

Oh snap haven't been on here in forever. Glad to see the thread has been revived! How is everyone? Excited for June 15? I'm hoping for Smash and Metroid Prime 4 news.

The star of the show will be Legend of Zelda BOTW2 I imagine. I am looking forward to that. I imagine we will get 2-3 Zelda things in the presentation.

 

[Icewolff92]

I think Masterchief has NO SHOT of getting into Smash and Crash's chances are slim. I think Rayman has a better shot than Crash.

I wouldn´t say that he has a 0% chance of getting in. But yeah, I don´t think Crash and Chief are as likely as people think anymore.

Oh snap haven't been on here in forever. Glad to see the thread has been revived! How is everyone? Excited for June 15? I'm hoping for Smash and Metroid Prime 4 news.

I´m good (recently engaged after all). I´m hyped towards E3, biggest hope is the SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2 and some Super Mario Party 2 (maybe perhaps some Fire Emblem news, although that feels too early)

 

[volbound1700]

I wouldn´t say that he has a 0% chance of getting in. But yeah, I don´t think Crash and Chief are as likely as people think anymore.



I´m good (recently engaged after all). I´m hyped towards E3, biggest hope is the SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2 and some Super Mario Party 2 (maybe perhaps some Fire Emblem news, although that feels too early)

Agreed. I don't even like Rayman's chances that much to be honest. The DLC has been a major letdown for Western fans but what can you expect from Nintendo, that is their MO. At least we got a lot of popular first-party picks in the base game and Banjo.

 

[Icewolff92]

Agreed. I don't even like Rayman's chances that much to be honest. The DLC has been a major letdown for Western fans but what can you expect from Nintendo, that is their MO. At least we got a lot of popular first-party picks in the base game and Banjo.

I argue that Steve and Sepiroth has been something big for west too (although latter been bigger for east)

 

[volbound1700]

I argue that Steve and Sepiroth has been something big for west too (although latter been bigger for east)

I can see that and agree. Granted both were also added due to their popularity in Japan. Seph seems like a base game addition that was held off for DLC to get more $$$. It was kind of an annoying addition to me because it really didn't add anything new but rather completed an uncomplete franchise in the series. Heck, we didn't even get music themes or spirits from other FF titles which would have made sense. So kind of a letdown. It also followed the trend of the past of using a JRPG character, with a sword based moveset, that has a ranged attack (in this case a fire attack).

 

[Dinoman96]

4. Going back to the whole “marketing thing”. She doesn´t have a spirit board. Something that Monster Hunter got pretty much right on cue when Monster Hunter Rise released, and the spirit board for Three Houses was mysteriously not there before Byleths reveal.

Do keep in mind that most of the spirit events for new first party Switch games have usually come a long time after their initial release. Look at Astral Chain or Ring Fit Adventure, both had to wait like four months after their releases to get their events. Recently we got the Bowser's Fury event back in early April, while the game was actually released back in February.

So I don't think the lack of a FDC event means much when it can basically happen at any time.

 

[Icewolff92]

Do keep in mind that most of the spirit events for new first party Switch games have usually come a long time after their initial release. Look at Astral Chain or Ring Fit Adventure, both had to wait like four months after their releases to get their events. Recently we got the Bowser's Fury event back in early April, while the game was actually released back in February.

So I don't think the lack of a FDC event means much when it can basically happen at any time.

Sure, but let's not forget either that Three Houses never got a spirit board until Byleth released

 

[volbound1700]

I don't think Spirit Events impact a character's chance to be honest. Mii Costumes or AT (although not necessarily gospel either) are the best bets for deconfirming characters.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't think Spirit Events impact a character's chance to be honest. Mii Costumes or AT (although not necessarily gospel either) are the best bets for deconfirming characters.

Nah, spirit events are pretty obvious deconfirmations.

It's not like we've been getting characters from Resident Evil, Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure and such on this pass thus far.

 

[Icewolff92]

Nah, spirit events are pretty obvious deconfirmations.

It's not like we've been getting characters from Resident Evil, Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure and such on this pass thus far.

Now watch the last two be Ring Fit Adventure and Akira Howard

 

[GenoToto]

Oh wow, I had no idea that a new thread was made for continued discussion. What a pleasant surprise!

Looks like I found it just in time, considering this morning's announcement from Nintendo re: E3. Can't wait to see what all comes up leading up to the event.

To specify for the record, I don't really know if there's even much of a chance for a Smash appearance by this point (hopeful as I may be), but I'm genuinely hoping that we can at least, one day, see playable appearances in other pieces of Mario-related media in the future. if not Smash, then perhaps a Kart, or a Party.

I'll even take a Golf. I'm not terribly picky.

 

[Megadoomer]

Nah, spirit events are pretty obvious deconfirmations.

It's not like we've been getting characters from Resident Evil, Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure and such on this pass thus far.

I agree that spirits from post-launch spirits events don't seem likely, but I don't think they should be entirely ruled out considering that the same sort of thing could have been (and was) said about base game spirits during Fighters Pass 1.

We didn't get any spirit promotions during FP1, but in FP2, Min Min, Pyra, and Mythra all became playable despite having spirits.

 

[Shroob]

Nintendo has announced the date for their E3 presentation now and it's on June 15th

What I find interesting is that they talk about how its only about software and nothing about Smash Bros Ultimate character(s). Which in my opinion, if they don´t show anyone during E3, that could mean that they truly "blow their load" after Steve and Sepiroth and we are about to get at least one "Byleth" (looking at you Ayumi Tachibana )

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400089827501092867

I mean, it's always good to be cautious, but as mentioned before, they didn't say anything in regards to the E3 of 2019, and that was arguably a double whammy of reveals.


This E3 will be interesting, if only because it's full of questions. Will they drop both and end speculation here and now? Will it just be 1? Will it be western or eastern? Who knows.

 

[Dinoman96]

I agree that spirits from post-launch spirits events don't seem likely, but I don't think they should be entirely ruled out considering that the same sort of thing could have been (and was) said about base game spirits during Fighters Pass 1.

We didn't get any spirit promotions during FP1, but in FP2, Min Min, Pyra, and Mythra all became playable despite having spirits.

So by that logic, the best chance for RE, Astral Chain, RFA, etc is through a third Fighters Pass...that we already know we're not gonna get.

oof

 

[volbound1700]

Nah, spirit events are pretty obvious deconfirmations.

It's not like we've been getting characters from Resident Evil, Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure and such on this pass thus far.

I thought we had a Xenoblade 2 event and still got a character. I am weary about any of the fan rules because Sakurai seems to enjoy breaking them.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I wouldn´t say that he has a 0% chance of getting in. But yeah, I don´t think Crash and Chief are as likely as people think anymore.



I´m good (recently engaged after all). I´m hyped towards E3, biggest hope is the SMRPG remake/sequel, Astral Chain 2 and some Super Mario Party 2 (maybe perhaps some Fire Emblem news, although that feels too early)

He congrats! Welcome to the club. Tomorrow actually will mark 1 year that I've been engaged but won't be til October next year that we'll be getting married. Best of wishes to you and your significant other! That's really exciting!

Is there still any credence to the SMRPG remake/sequel rumors? Seems like that would've been a Mario anniversary announcement. Then again Nintendo has been pretty adamant about not revealing games until they're close to completion lately so who knows.

 

[Paraster]

I thought we had a Xenoblade 2 event and still got a character. I am weary about any of the fan rules because Sakurai seems to enjoy breaking them.

There was not a Xenoblade 2 spirit event; XB2 spirits were present in base game.

The logic behind believing spirit events deconfirm is that it would make more sense to just put the spirits in the DLC Spirit Board instead. Base spirits, meanwhile, were decided before DLC was planned.

 

[Icewolff92]

He congrats! Welcome to the club. Tomorrow actually will mark 1 year that I've been engaged but won't be til October next year that we'll be getting married. Best of wishes to you and your significant other! That's really exciting!

Is there still any credence to the SMRPG remake/sequel rumors? Seems like that would've been a Mario anniversary announcement. Then again Nintendo has been pretty adamant about not revealing games until they're close to completion lately so who knows.

Heh, thanks. It's ironic. My fiancee is an old friend of mine that I got together with after she and her newborn (who ironically helped deliver )moved in with me and my parents due to COVID and her ex that did an FTSIO when he heard she was pregnant so she needed financial help so to speak. Now I´m engaged and her son is calling me dad so xD

About that SMRPG, I believe that we are at worse getting a port of the original. Sure, you could argue that it would have been obvious for them to reveal it during Mario 35th, but it could just be that Square wanted to focus their market on something else by then. I don´t think we are ever going to get it on the NSO like so many seem to think

 

[ForsakenM]

I'll just say this:

Sakurai is kind of infamous for going back on his word. He's done it multiple times before. That said, after all the times he's said that this pass will be the definitive end of Ultimate DLC, if he ends up breaking his word this time, I'll have no choice but to conclude that his word means absolutely ****. That's not to say that we will or won't possibly get more DLC in some way, shape or form, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Glad to see someone circulating proper information that I have mentioned before. Sakurai has indeed gone back on his word before, but most of these occasions it was a bit out of his control. This is also a very different situation, as Sakurai has never gone out of his way this hard to assure us the ending of development on a game before. It is this reason that I believe CP10 and CP11 are going to be the last of the DLC for Smash Ultimate, no bonus character no nothing else.

He congrats! Welcome to the club. Tomorrow actually will mark 1 year that I've been engaged but won't be til October next year that we'll be getting married. Best of wishes to you and your significant other! That's really exciting!

Is there still any credence to the SMRPG remake/sequel rumors? Seems like that would've been a Mario anniversary announcement. Then again Nintendo has been pretty adamant about not revealing games until they're close to completion lately so who knows.

Some of the Mario 35th events were originally scheduled as far back as April 2020, and yet 3D All-Stars just barely got announced and came out on time. Also, many of the announcements in that Direct were either small events for games already released or were merch-related, but very few were big new Mario titles. Suddenly we get Super Rush announced this year after months of rumors of a new Mario Sports game, and we've had rumors of both SMRPG and a new Mario Party for just about as long if not longer.

You guys need to remember how badly schedules can get pushed back from a pandemic. Anywhere between six months to a year or more of plans have to be rescheduled, and then the plans after THAT need addressed, and then the plans after that...we will likely see this with other titles as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More importantly, I keep seeing you guys saying that these passes have been underwhelming, and I cannot stress how wrong you are. If you personally are unsatisfied, I get that, but that is you on an individual level and not anything more than that. The numbers themselves and the archives of responses and reactions dictate that, and Smash has been a wild ride.

1. was a big announcement that really drummed up hype for the kind of characters that could get into Smash. Remember that there was some clamor for the character but it had been mostly drowned out in disbelief of his chances.
   
   
2. is Japan's equivalent of Ridley or more accurately King K Rool. The fact that this series has been around so long, with Smash existing for so long as well, the series director LOVES Dragon Quest just like 99.9% of Japan and that it STILL hadn't happened until Ultimate is honestly unbelievable. This was a major inclusion.
   
   
3. is something I think I don't really need to talk about at all, but let's just point out that while the bear and bird had some global appeal, it was definitely mostly for us.
   
   
4. is an example of a bit of slowing down, but he does have his level of appeal, and he's definitely a legacy character. His game series goes as far back as the older Street Fighter games and if it wasn't for Fatal Fury and KoF we may never have gotten Smash Bros.
   
   
5. is unfortunately not all that hype, however they did have some appeal AND Three Houses was extremely successful so it's not all that surprising that this happened.
   
   
6. is another example of representing a new IP in Smash. It worked with Splatoon because Splatoon is popular, but ARMS isn't really that big a success so this wasn't as well received.
   
   
7. is the funny block lad himself that counters anything that anyone can possibly say about this pass being underwhelming. This man single-handedly killed it in both DLC sales AND making copies of Ultimate reach around or exceeding launch sales. Him getting in is such a big deal and pleases people all around the globe that you can't possibly say that this pass was bad objectively.
   
   
8. was also received incredibly well, both by older fans who have loved Final Fantasy for years and those who have only gotten to know FF7 through the remake. He came out as mostly a surprise and a healthy one, similar to Joker.
   
   
9. is an example of mixing first party shilling with a character that actually had some request, albeit with a lot of the hype from overseas having expired. Xenoblade has been getting a lot bigger in terms of a fandom and thus this was bound to please to some degree.

So far out of nine Challenger Packs, Nintendo and Sakurai have done well for six of them. We are looking at around 67% here, which is a majority, and we still have two more characters left to go. I have high hopes that these last two will be something impressive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of E3 and what my expectations are, I don't really have too many outside of Smash. I usually just got into Nintendo Directs knowing that Nintendo will announce some cool and quirky stuff and that something in there will catch my eye even if I end up not really wanting anything by the end of it. As far as Smash goes, the fact that they are back to a normal schedule and that Sakurai's random instance on this being the end of DLC and that Ultimate will soon be finalized, I think this signals a double reveal. We already had this happen in 2019 and I feel as though with as much time that has passed we could get another July drop and then another September/October drop, although there has been a bit of a rumormill suggesting we could even get CP10 as early as this month.

Outside of Smash, I expect BotW2 and gameplay of it at the Treehouse Live, a couple more Zelda games, news about Bayonetta 3, a gameplay teaser for Prime 4, couple of new Mario titles and a new IP or two being shown off. Toss in some third parties with indies and devs that Nintendo loves to work with like Square or Capcom and I think that would about do it. I do believe that this 40 min Direct rather up there in terms of duration, so I do expect lots of title announcements to play catch up with what was supposed to happen last year.

 

[volbound1700]

Glad to see someone circulating proper information that I have mentioned before. Sakurai has indeed gone back on his word before, but most of these occasions it was a bit out of his control. This is also a very different situation, as Sakurai has never gone out of his way this hard to assure us the ending of development on a game before. It is this reason that I believe CP10 and CP11 are going to be the last of the DLC for Smash Ultimate, no bonus character no nothing else.



Some of the Mario 35th events were originally scheduled as far back as April 2020, and yet 3D All-Stars just barely got announced and came out on time. Also, many of the announcements in that Direct were either small events for games already released or were merch-related, but very few were big new Mario titles. Suddenly we get Super Rush announced this year after months of rumors of a new Mario Sports game, and we've had rumors of both SMRPG and a new Mario Party for just about as long if not longer.

You guys need to remember how badly schedules can get pushed back from a pandemic. Anywhere between six months to a year or more of plans have to be rescheduled, and then the plans after THAT need addressed, and then the plans after that...we will likely see this with other titles as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More importantly, I keep seeing you guys saying that these passes have been underwhelming, and I cannot stress how wrong you are. If you personally are unsatisfied, I get that, but that is you on an individual level and not anything more than that. The numbers themselves and the archives of responses and reactions dictate that, and Smash has been a wild ride.

1. was a big announcement that really drummed up hype for the kind of characters that could get into Smash. Remember that there was some clamor for the character but it had been mostly drowned out in disbelief of his chances.
   
   
2. is Japan's equivalent of Ridley or more accurately King K Rool. The fact that this series has been around so long, with Smash existing for so long as well, the series director LOVES Dragon Quest just like 99.9% of Japan and that it STILL hadn't happened until Ultimate is honestly unbelievable. This was a major inclusion.
   
   
3. is something I think I don't really need to talk about at all, but let's just point out that while the bear and bird had some global appeal, it was definitely mostly for us.
   
   
4. is an example of a bit of slowing down, but he does have his level of appeal, and he's definitely a legacy character. His game series goes as far back as the older Street Fighter games and if it wasn't for Fatal Fury and KoF we may never have gotten Smash Bros.
   
   
5. is unfortunately not all that hype, however they did have some appeal AND Three Houses was extremely successful so it's not all that surprising that this happened.
   
   
6. is another example of representing a new IP in Smash. It worked with Splatoon because Splatoon is popular, but ARMS isn't really that big a success so this wasn't as well received.
   
   
7. is the funny block lad himself that counters anything that anyone can possibly say about this pass being underwhelming. This man single-handedly killed it in both DLC sales AND making copies of Ultimate reach around or exceeding launch sales. Him getting in is such a big deal and pleases people all around the globe that you can't possibly say that this pass was bad objectively.
   
   
8. was also received incredibly well, both by older fans who have loved Final Fantasy for years and those who have only gotten to know FF7 through the remake. He came out as mostly a surprise and a healthy one, similar to Joker.
   
   
9. is an example of mixing first party shilling with a character that actually had some request, albeit with a lot of the hype from overseas having expired. Xenoblade has been getting a lot bigger in terms of a fandom and thus this was bound to please to some degree.

So far out of nine Challenger Packs, Nintendo and Sakurai have done well for six of them. We are looking at around 67% here, which is a majority, and we still have two more characters left to go. I have high hopes that these last two will be something impressive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of E3 and what my expectations are, I don't really have too many outside of Smash. I usually just got into Nintendo Directs knowing that Nintendo will announce some cool and quirky stuff and that something in there will catch my eye even if I end up not really wanting anything by the end of it. As far as Smash goes, the fact that they are back to a normal schedule and that Sakurai's random instance on this being the end of DLC and that Ultimate will soon be finalized, I think this signals a double reveal. We already had this happen in 2019 and I feel as though with as much time that has passed we could get another July drop and then another September/October drop, although there has been a bit of a rumormill suggesting we could even get CP10 as early as this month.

Outside of Smash, I expect BotW2 and gameplay of it at the Treehouse Live, a couple more Zelda games, news about Bayonetta 3, a gameplay teaser for Prime 4, couple of new Mario titles and a new IP or two being shown off. Toss in some third parties with indies and devs that Nintendo loves to work with like Square or Capcom and I think that would about do it. I do believe that this 40 min Direct rather up there in terms of duration, so I do expect lots of title announcements to play catch up with what was supposed to happen last year.

ForesakenM,

There really isn't much for you if you don't like JRPG. Joker, for example, is my least favorite character in the pass and I have no connection to his series nor love for it. He is a very niche character in the Western World and he didn't really appear on Nintendo consoles.

Final Fantasy 7's inclusion of Sephiroth, although iconic, did not add a New World or IP. We already had Cloud and Midgard. They could have at least given us other Final Fantays content.

The Fire Emblem character once again used Sword in moveset. (I think Byleth would have been better received with a better moveset).

Myra/Pythra are again another JRPG sword-user. Might as well be another Fire Emblem character.

The key is who is missing:

1. No Ryu Hayabusa
2. No Doomguy
3. No Crash
4. No Rayman
5. No Sora
6. No Lara Croft
7. No Shantae
8. No Dante
9. None of the Major First Parties people wanted (Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Chorus Kids, etc.)

Sub a few of the third-parties or JRPG picks for some on my list and you have a good pass. Many of the characters that I have posted have received the most attention from Youtubers, on these boards, reddit, etc. You can sit down and make an argument for any pick added to the past but can you make the argument in lieu of who is missing?

Also the fact that one Genre is highly overrepresented. JRPGs are NOT big in the Western World yet you have the following JRPG characters in the pass:

1. Joker
2. Hero
3. Byleth
4. Sephiroth
5. Mythra and Pyra

That is literally 55% of the characters selected to date (5 out of 9).

 

[Megadoomer]

So far out of nine Challenger Packs, Nintendo and Sakurai have done well for six of them. We are looking at around 67% here, which is a majority, and we still have two more characters left to go. I have high hopes that these last two will be something impressive.

I can't speak for anyone else, but while Ultimate's DLC has generally been good in my eyes (with a few exceptions; I wasn't a fan of Byleth's inclusion, since even if we needed to have a Fire Emblem character, I would have preferred any of the house leaders over him), my concern is that it seems pretty rare for Smash to end a speculation period on what's generally considered a high note:

Smash 64: it's unclear (reveals weren't as big of a deal back then), but going by the official website, it seems to be Ness; Earthbound wasn't exactly well-known outside of Japan, between the terrible marketing campaign for North America and the game not releasing in Europe

Melee: Mr. Game & Watch (Roy's listed last, but Mr. Game & Watch's page was put up last and he's the last one you unlock) - I don't know how many people would have been excited for a 2D silhouette who's an amalgamation of 20+ pre-Game Boy handheld games.

Brawl: Wolf; from what I recall, people weren't too thrilled that the last character in the game was another Fox clone/semi-clone. (a lot of people were expecting Mega Man, among other characters, and if we got a third Star Fox character, I think the general preference was Krystal back then)

Smash 4 finished off with Duck Hunt (or Dark Pit, technically - he was shown in Palutena's trailer, but it wasn't revealed that he'd be playable until the game actually came out), Smash 4's DLC ended with Corrin and Bayonetta (Bayonetta's inclusion was great in my eyes, but people had issues with her), Smash Ultimate's base game ended with Ken and Incineroar (not sure if they were met with hate/apathy, but it was seen as anti-climactic by a lot of people, especially after the Grinch "leak"), and Fighter's Pass 1 ended with Byleth.

Out of all of those, I don't recall many of them being met with positive responses - even Bayonetta had people immediately saying that they were going to sell their Wii U, or that Smash was "ruined" or "lost what made it special" because Bayonetta was included. (I checked the original discussions on SmashBoards not too long ago, to see what the reaction was like)

I'd love to see Fighter's Pass 2, and Ultimate as a whole, go out on some megaton announcement, like announcing Crash Bandicoot, or Master Chief, or Dante, or Doomguy, or revealing that Geno's being upgraded to a full fighter, but given what we've seen from previous Smash games, I have my doubts. (though admittedly, some of this is based on announcements from over twenty years ago)

 

[volbound1700]

The situation with the current pass doesn't help that nearly every Youtube or Reddit speculator has been talking about characters like Crash, Rayman, Doomguy, Masterchief, etc. since Smash DLC started but they keep getting passed up. I think that is creating frustration in the Smash Community. Leakers are our own worse enemies sometimes. It is clear that there is a major divide between the Japan and West on what characters should be in Smash. Also take into account, Sakurai tends to prefer to get unpredictable picks rather than the ones everyone talks about and wants, and you got the recipe for major letdowns.

Take Rayman for example. Rayman gets the leak for Smash 4 that falls apart. Gets trophies included for Smash 4. Gets spirits in Ultimate. The constant teases, the constant fake leaks, the constant demands, the high rankings in the released polls (I guess these were not the official polls) prior to Ultimate. Most Rayman fans were expecting their character only to get burned over and over again. It has been two games running. With the exception of maybe Golden Sun, Geno, and/or Chorus Kids, I don't think there is a fanbase out there that has had their characters chances dashed so much and had so much teases only to not come true.

 

[S1itchey]

ForesakenM,

There really isn't much for you if you don't like JRPG. Joker, for example, is my least favorite character in the pass and I have no connection to his series nor love for it. He is a very niche character in the Western World and he didn't really appear on Nintendo consoles.

Final Fantasy 7's inclusion of Sephiroth, although iconic, did not add a New World or IP. We already had Cloud and Midgard. They could have at least given us other Final Fantays content.

The Fire Emblem character once again used Sword in moveset. (I think Byleth would have been better received with a better moveset).

Myra/Pythra are again another JRPG sword-user. Might as well be another Fire Emblem character.

The key is who is missing:

1. No Ryu Hayabusa
2. No Doomguy
3. No Crash
4. No Rayman
5. No Sora
6. No Lara Croft
7. No Shantae
8. No Dante
9. None of the Major First Parties people wanted (Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Chorus Kids, etc.)

Sub a few of the third-parties or JRPG picks for some on my list and you have a good pass. Many of the characters that I have posted have received the most attention from Youtubers, on these boards, reddit, etc. You can sit down and make an argument for any pick added to the past but can you make the argument in lieu of who is missing?

Also the fact that one Genre is highly overrepresented. JRPGs are NOT big in the Western World yet you have the following JRPG characters in the pass:

1. Joker
2. Hero
3. Byleth
4. Sephiroth
5. Mythra and Pyra

That is literally 55% of the characters selected to date (5 out of 9).

Definelty agree on the oversaturation of jrpg characters. Another one of my biggest problems with the pass is that they really don't feel like they're going out of their way to at least try to make the pass as appealing to as many people as possible. Once again making more than half the character so far be jrpg characters makes it guaranteed that if you don't play rpgs your not going to care as much about a majority of the dlc. Aside from banjo and maybe Steve it also feels like they haven't gone out fo their way to include characters people have actually been asking for ( geno, rayman, bandana dee, Dixie, isaac etc). In fact I'm almost certain crash is NOT going to be in smash because that would actually be an exciting inclusion that tons of people have been asking for.


Funny thing is I wouldn't even care that much if they would have just added geno. He was all I wanted and if he was in they could have added goku for all I care (not really) but they didn't and so now id like smash dlc to at least end of on something that doesn't make me feel like **** after having my most wanted character deconfirmed. I love this game but its so damn hard to be invested when the entire second pass feels like its going out of its way to be as disappointing as possible.

 

[Megadoomer]

I find it a little ironic that people are complaining about there being too many JRPG characters when Geno's a JRPG character. I get that Geno has a wildly different appearance/skill-set/weapon compared to Sephiroth, Pyra, Mythra, Byleth, Hero, etc. - I just find it funny.

 

[TriggerX]

Personally I’d love to see a super Mario rpg sequel or remake. Ideally a remake and sequel in one game would be kind of cool.
Banjo Kazooie remake or 3 would be cool too.
Unfortunately I never have high hopes for Nintendo.

Last but not least, I hope at e3 they just finish announcing all the dlc for this last pass so I can decide whether or not to buy it.

I honestly think Master Chief has a good chance of getting in. The moment they announce any kind of halo is playable on the switch I’d say he is a lock. Only reason he isn’t in the roster now is because he’s never been on a Nintendo console. However if that changes, I could see both Nintendo and Microsoft being on board with it. As far as roster goes we’ve yet to see a “gunner” influenced play style for a character, I doubt it’s going to be all swords at this point. Besides it’s weird Microsoft has 2 characters in the game, and not their main one. Not even a spirit or costume. Too big of a legend to be skipped over.

 

[Icewolff92]

The Fire Emblem character once again used Sword in moveset. (I think Byleth would have been better received with a better moveset).

Ehm... The fact that Byleth doesn´t use a plain sword only (let´s face it, that sword is more of a whip and not a sword) is what sort of saved them, depending on how you look at it obviously.

I can't speak for anyone else, but while Ultimate's DLC has generally been good in my eyes (with a few exceptions; I wasn't a fan of Byleth's inclusion, since even if we needed to have a Fire Emblem character, I would have preferred any of the house leaders over him), my concern is that it seems pretty rare for Smash to end a speculation period on what's generally considered a high note:

Honestly, if they had to pick a three houses character, I dare argue that Byleth was the right choice. Not only doesn´t Three Houses have an Azura-type character (a character that has a main playable role no matter the route you play in like she was in Fates.). It is also a downright civil war within the fanbase on who is the best house leader, particularly between Edelgard and Dimitri fans.

What I question most when it comes to FE, to be honest, is that Lyn isn´t even a Mii Costume which makes no sense to me considering she is arguably one of the few FE characters (with Black Knight being the second one) that would be generally accepted by Smash fans considering their constantly being modded in + big fanbase.

The key is who is missing:

1. No Ryu Hayabusa
2. No Doomguy
3. No Crash
4. No Rayman
5. No Sora
6. No Lara Croft
7. No Shantae
8. No Dante
9. None of the Major First Parties people wanted (Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Chorus Kids, etc.)

Here is the unfortunate part about the third parties you mentioned. The only ones that even remotely appeals to the Japanese audience are Ryu, Sora & Dante. There was no chance in hell that we would get Rayman, Crash, Doomguy, Lara Croft & Shante in the same game unless Ultimate would have like a 10 years old development at minimum for DLC only. Not counting Mii Costumes, the only western created characters that got included in this game so far are

King K Rool
Dark Samus
Steve
Banjo

That is 4 out of the current 80 fighters

Banjo & Steve are the only ones that originated from original IPs created in the west, with only one of them being universally praised worldwide. Heck, just look at Sakurai´s behavior with Banjos presentation and then Steve´s presentation. He looks way more excited to go over Steve than what he was with Banjo.

That is 2 out of the current 80 fighters.

Then we have Mii Costumes. Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, and Vault Boy, 5 western-based costumes among 300+ costumes give or take. And the only ones that got music with their costumes come from the two games that are universally adored and not the ones that are most beloved in the west.

So, as I said in a previous post. There is at best 1 for the west + 1 for the east left. But it shouldn´t be so surprising if the last two are most beloved in Japan either because (like I also said previously), the main audience for them is, and will always be Japan.

I find it a little ironic that people are complaining about there being too many JRPG characters when Geno's a JRPG character. I get that Geno has a wildly different appearance/skill-set/weapon compared to Sephiroth, Pyra, Mythra, Byleth, Hero, etc. - I just find it funny.

The same goes for people that are pushing for Sora and Isaac.

 

[volbound1700]

Ehm... The fact that Byleth doesn´t use a plain sword only (let´s face it, that sword is more of a whip and not a sword) is what sort of saved them, depending on how you look at it obviously.



Honestly, if they had to pick a three houses character, I dare argue that Byleth was the right choice. Not only doesn´t Three Houses have an Azura-type character (a character that has a main playable role no matter the route you play in like she was in Fates.). It is also a downright civil war within the fanbase on who is the best house leader, particularly between Edelgard and Dimitri fans.

What I question most when it comes to FE, to be honest, is that Lyn isn´t even a Mii Costume which makes no sense to me considering she is arguably one of the few FE characters (with Black Knight being the second one) that would be generally accepted by Smash fans considering their constantly being modded in + big fanbase.



Here is the unfortunate part about the third parties you mentioned. The only ones that even remotely appeals to the Japanese audience are Ryu, Sora & Dante. There was no chance in hell that we would get Rayman, Crash, Doomguy, Lara Croft & Shante in the same game unless Ultimate would have like a 10 years old development at minimum for DLC only. Not counting Mii Costumes, the only western created characters that got included in this game so far are

King K Rool
Dark Samus
Steve
Banjo

That is 4 out of the current 80 fighters

Banjo & Steve are the only ones that originated from original IPs created in the west, with only one of them being universally praised worldwide. Heck, just look at Sakurai´s behavior with Banjos presentation and then Steve´s presentation. He looks way more excited to go over Steve than what he was with Banjo.

That is 2 out of the current 80 fighters.

Then we have Mii Costumes. Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, and Vault Boy, 5 western-based costumes among 300+ costumes give or take. And the only ones that got music with their costumes come from the two games that are universally adored and not the ones that are most beloved in the west.

So, as I said in a previous post. There is at best 1 for the west + 1 for the east left. But it shouldn´t be so surprising if the last two are most beloved in Japan either because (like I also said previously), the main audience for them is, and will always be Japan.



The same goes for people that are pushing for Sora and Isaac.

That is the point though. We are WESTERN Nintendo fans so we have a reason to be angry and complain. They are not giving us content. It would be like Nissan designing a car that is only popular in Japan and trying to sell it in United States, Europe, etc.

This is a MAJOR problem with Nintendo. This is why often in popular news, Nintendo is kind of the sideshow company or child company compared to Playstation and Xbox in the West. Sony is a great example of a Japanese company that knows how to appeal to Universal Audiences and not just Japan. Nintendo could learn a lot from Sony.

Another great example is let's say that I make a annual music anthologies. Then I put together mostly just Rock from the 1970s only done by American artist with a few just a couple of non-American, Non-rocks included that I have to include. There is all kinds of other great music out there but I have just solely focused on one sub-set of music. That is kind of what Sakurai has done with the DLC.

 

[Icewolff92]

That is the point though. We are WESTERN Nintendo fans so we have a reason to be angry and complain. They are not giving us content. It would be like Nissan designing a car that is only popular in Japan and trying to sell it in United States, Europe, etc.

This is a MAJOR problem with Nintendo. This is why often in popular news, Nintendo is kind of the sideshow company or child company compared to Playstation and Xbox in the West. Sony is a great example of a Japanese company that knows how to appeal to Universal Audiences and not just Japan. Nintendo could learn a lot from Sony.

Another great example is let's say that I make a annual music anthologies. Then I put together mostly just Rock from the 1970s only done by American artist with a few just a couple of non-American, Non-rocks included that I have to include. There is all kinds of other great music out there but I have just solely focused on one sub-set of music. That is kind of what Sakurai has done with the DLC.

The problem with using Playstation as an example is that Sony is going more and more leaning to the west and slowly but surely ditching the Japanese market. Heck, they have even closed their Japanese studio down https://wccftech.com/sony-japan-studio-closed-ps5-director-gavin-moore-leaves/

I´m not saying that we western Nintendo fans don´t have the right to complain, but we act sometimes like we are their core audience when it has been obvious for ages that we are not. Heck, if Metroid had a fanbase in Japan for starters, I can guarantee you that Metroid Prime 4 would be Metroid Prime 6

 

[volbound1700]

The problem with using Playstation as an example is that Sony is going more and more leaning to the west and slowly but surely ditching the Japanese market. Heck, they have even closed their Japanese studio down https://wccftech.com/sony-japan-studio-closed-ps5-director-gavin-moore-leaves/

I´m not saying that we western Nintendo fans don´t have the right to complain, but we act sometimes like we are their core audience when it has been obvious for ages that we are not. Heck, if Metroid had a fanbase in Japan for starters, I can guarantee you that Metroid Prime 4 would be Metroid Prime 6

I see your point but are the two concerns related? Had Nintendo had more of a focus on Western Audiences, than perhaps they would have more of a market in the West as well?

Don't underestimate the North America market as well. It accounts for usually around 60-70% of the sales.

The lack of respect for Western markets in this Fighter Pass is the same culture at Nintendo that nearly drove them to bankruptcy several times in their history.
Don't get me wrong, I want Japanese IP in the game. I loved Dragon Quest representation for example. However, when you have big-name IP in GLOBAL sales that cannot get a sniff for Smash despite appearing on Nintendo Consoles for Generations like Crash or Rayman, it does look bad.

 

[Icewolff92]

I see your point but are the two concerns related? Had Nintendo had more of a focus on Western Audiences, than perhaps they would have more of a market in the West as well?

Don't underestimate the North America market as well. It accounts for usually around 60-70% of the sales.

The lack of respect for Western markets in this Fighter Pass is the same culture at Nintendo that nearly drove them to bankruptcy several times in their history.
Don't get me wrong, I want Japanese IP in the game. I loved Dragon Quest representation for example. However, when you have big-name IP in GLOBAL sales that cannot get a sniff for Smash despite appearing on Nintendo Consoles for Generations like Crash or Rayman, it does look bad.

The sony party was mostly because you claimed Sony did a "50/50" when they are clearly starting to lean more 90/10 at best with western being 90 and the 10 being eastern (considering they are pushing to have time exclusivity for final fantasy for starters)

And source on Nintendo being close for bankruptcy several times? Because last time I checked, they are notorious to save up money so they have to spare to the point that they could continue having Wii Us for several decades before they were close to financial issues bank in 2014 when everyone said Nintendo was done for it https://nintendotoday.com/nintendo-not-doomed/

Today they are the richest company in all of Japan because of their whole mentality of "not spending unless needed" https://www.thedigitalfix.com/gaming/news/nintendo-is-now-the-richest-company-in-japan/

There is a big reason why Nintendo bought Next Level Games was a big deal. Because they are not a company that usually buys companies left and right. and they only bought NGL because they wanted to be bought. If they weren´t. them buying them would most likely not happen. The last one was Monolith Soth back in 2008. They don´t own Hal Laboratory or Intelligent System like some people seem to believe.

Edit - The current CEO just brings the point across of what I´m talking about with them not spending more than needed

" “We are not just blindly acquiring companies because we want development resources. We don’t think that simply expanding the scale of our business will really improve the value of the entertainment that Nintendo provides.”"

Nintendo isn’t interested in ‘just blindly acquiring companies’, says president | VGC

Furukawa believes simply increasing the size of Nintendo’s teams won’t improve its output…

www.videogameschronicle.com

This is a company that started in the late 1800 as a card game creator, and not late 1980 or whenever Donkey Kong arcade releases as some believe. For heck sake, Nintendo has even owned love hotels in Japan at one point

So I hate to say it, but their general strategy of focusing mostly on the Japanese market works in their favor. And if what you say is true about 60-70% of sales is from North America, yet Star Fox, F-zero are not alive (and probably won´t be returning to life anytime soon), let alone Metroid being on its "2D sells well enough but Prime is not worth it"current status.... that is just another proof of them still mostly focusing on Japan then the western audience.