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Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

ivanlerma

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Same. I would love to see him being playable after all. But I just can´t see Square of all companies get 3 new characters, let alone one being an MII costume at the same time that revealed with another Square character. The best thing we could probably wish for is that rumored remake/sequel at this point
Watch Microsoft get a third fighter in the pass and not Square, EVEN IF IT'S THE F*&*N' DOOM SLAYER!
 

ZelDan

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If they were going to put a SMRPG character into Dissidia, I feel like Culex would make more sense than Geno.

Dude's a FF parody afterall.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Why would they add a charscter from a mario game to a Final Fantasy game?
if it can be done in Mario hoops then why not dissidia
If they were going to put a SMRPG character into Dissidia, I feel like Culex would make more sense than Geno.

Dude's a FF parody afterall.
i would like both honestly since the game has hero and villain theme in it
 
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ForsakenM

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Wait really? Sorry I’ve been out of the loop in speculation for geno, how did his chances go up?
It's less about his chances going up and more like they never went down. I know it's weird to think that another Square character other than Geno getting in for a third time, second time in this DLC, and his costume showing up with them isn't bad for his chances, but it was all a mindset that was so focused on the Mii Costume itself that we never stopped to think about whether or not that costume even mattered.

First off, Mii Costumes do not deconfirm, and please do not let the majority pressure you into thinking otherwise because they are flat-out wrong. At best, the only argument you can make is that brand new Mii Costumes deconfirm and Premium Costumes that are clearly made to look just like the character definitely deconfirm, but not only is that not a 100% for this Pass but it means nothing should we somehow get anything after this pass. For example, I would say that the odds of Travis or Sans getting in as playable in this pass are slim to none, with Travis having a better chance, however they aren't 100% out of the running.

However, this doesn't affect returning costumes at all. Why? Well if only a couple of them had shown up by now, than maybe it would matter, but the only one we are missing now is Lloyd out of ALL the old 3rd party costumes from Smash 4. This shows clear intent to return ALL of the old 3rd party costumes from the get go as a way to make the game feel more complete and to make all these companies a bit more money, which while you may consider these costumes when picking characters, honestly if this was always planned it's not a smart business decision to let this impede who you negotiated for as playable. Keep in mind that since NONE of these costumes were in base game, this means that sometime around March 2018 is when they started work on negotiating for the return of these costumes, right alongside characters. This means that either all these companies said no to the costumes being in base game, or they weren't even asked about that during base game development. Regardless, this screams 'let's make sure we get all these 3rd party costumes back into the game' rather than 'let's only grab the ones that fit with our character choices.'

If that was a bit confusing, let me try to summarize: Reusing assets for resale is much different from making brand new content from sale, and since we've gotten all but one of the costumes back, it's clear that there was an effort made towards bringing all of them back rather than an effort to only bring back certain ones if it works with character negotiations.

In addition, Spring Man's costume didn't stop him: Spring Man was both an AT and a costume, yet despite being the most voted-for ARMS rep in the Mega Smash Poll of 2020 and the obvious choice, ARMS was out for so long (ARMS was a year old four days after the 2018 E3 Nintendo Direct, a mere three months after we know negotiations for DLC started) that when in combination with the request of Kosuke Yabuki and Min Min being the fan-favorite, it was clear she would win out over him. This means that Spring Man didn't get included only because of development timeframe and if ARMS had gotten a character in base Ultimate it would have been Spring Man. Rex is in a similar situation: it wasn't his costume that cost him being playable, but the fact that the game couldn't handle two or three characters with such graphical detail to their models active at once, forget multiple players picking the character. Factoring that in with how the Blades are very popular waifus characters and knowing you can't cut either of the girls both because of their popularity and character mechanics, Rex was the clear choice.

Once you lift the veil the community places before you on Mii Costumes, you can look back at all the things in Geno's favor and it seems nigh-magical Christmas Land: How big of a demand he's had for a long time now, the fact that Sakurai knows about this demand, the fact that Ultimate went crazy on long-term requests in base game, how Pass 1 gave two characters that fall under that (Hero and Banjo), how Pass 2 doesn't have a character like that yet, Nintendo's relationship with Square getting better and better, the fact that he's a Mario character and we had that lackluster Mario 35th, the fact that more Mario content came after the anniversary celebration and the rumors of more Mario stuff, CacoMallow still not being debunked or confirmed...there are likely many more things I can't recall at the moment.

The only thing I would say that someone can bring up that could be bad for him is Sephy already being in the pass and his costume coming with him instead of with himself. However, the same company getting more than one character in a single pass, while a pattern for sure, is still just a fan rule (which Nintendo has broken themselves already, but of course the argument has been moved to 3rd party only) as Nintendo can double dip with a company if they want to. In addition, costumes have a lot of set conditions: they have to be negotiated for and scheduled to release alongside certain characters with little to no straying from those agreements, and how many costumes that come in a wave have to be pre-determined, among other things. When you consider how Square only allows THEIR content to show up alongside THEIR content, how some waves have more than others, and how Final Fantasy is clearly very difficult to negotiate rights for, this shows that negotiating for the rights to make Aerith, Tifa and Barrett costumes was as far as they could go for new costumes and thus they negotiated for Chocobo Hat and Geno's costume to neatly wrap up the bow on old Square costumes.

This could mean that there is no more Square content in this pass, but it could also mean that Geno is either coming with enough new costumes that they couldn't fit his in there and thus it worked better with Sephy, or perhaps Geno is getting treated like the Mario character he is and he's only coming with 1st party costumes, thus the Square costumes had to come with a Square character. It's also possible that Nintendo actually got the rights to him or SMRPG stuff behind the scenes and Geno IS a 1st party character now, but perhaps he wasn't when the costume was negotiated for or some weird licensing issue where the costume is still 3rd party because when it was made or something. I think the first one is the most likely and makes the most sense.

When you think about it, Geno could easily fill up 5-6 slots, and that's if he's even getting that many to begin with. new SMRPG costumes like Mallow or Smithy could easily take up 2-3 slots, not to mention potential other Square franchises like Nier, Chrono Trigger or TWEWY filling 2-3 slots, the chance of a Premium filling a slot, and the chance that Lloyd's costume could fill a slot. Considering Geno is both a Mario and a Square character, there is really no reason not to go in hard with content to shill for more money.
 

Urso_Ornitier

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Ugh, I had a dream were Super Mario RPG remake and Geno for smash were announced for E3 back to back.

Why do this to me brain!?
 

SSGuy

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If they were going to put a SMRPG character into Dissidia, I feel like Culex would make more sense than Geno.

Dude's a FF parody afterall.
I agree with this mainly because I have a hard time separating Geno from the Mario Universe as a whole.
 

Icewolff92

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So I wonder how truthful that holds the "Mario board" thing that stops original characters and all that jazz is now with the Mario + Rabbids 2 trailer. I mean, not only is Nintendo allowing Ubisoft to have Mario holding guns in a trailer but there is originally created the character as the supposed main antagonist
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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So I wonder how truthful that holds the "Mario board" thing that stops original characters and all that jazz is now with the Mario + Rabbids 2 trailer. I mean, not only is Nintendo allowing Ubisoft to have Mario holding guns in a trailer but there is originally created the character as the supposed main antagonist
It was more about reusing original characters in a later game.

The Rabbids are also Ubisoft characters in part, and it's still just reusing characters they want to do(Rosalina, etc.). So it's possible they just are inconsistent in how they apply it.
 

Icewolff92

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It was more about reusing original characters in a later game.

The Rabbids are also Ubisoft characters in part, and it's still just reusing characters they want to do(Rosalina, etc.). So it's possible they just are inconsistent in how they apply it.
Then what about the "Mario holding a gun part" in promotional materials though?
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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Then what about the "Mario holding a gun part" in promotional materials though?
It seems Nintendo does allow their characters to have changes sometimes. The mandate might not even apply to this game because it's not a regular Mario game either. But as I said, they're clearly inconsistent.

Also, Mario holds a gun in Smash too. It looks like they cherrypick what is acceptable and what is not. If Mario was holding a far more realistic gun, that'd be different. But these are intentionally guns that fit more within the universe, as they go to galaxies, etc. It's probably cause they're considered "cartoony" enough to not count.

I don't think the mandate even applied to weapons in the same way. But I haven't read that in forever. I do remember that the rules about unique OC's is they usually can't be used in another game. It doesn't mean that they won't ever make an exception. Nintendo can bend its own rules whenever it wants, as they own the franchise. They allow Ubisoft to do a ton as is, which makes me think this Super Mario game mandate is not applied to this series of games.
 
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Icewolff92

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So Rare and Microsoft managed to get Jack Sparrow for Sea of Thieves. I have a hard time seeing Nintendo been unable to grab Sora if they truly wants to for Smash
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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So Rare and Microsoft managed to get Jack Sparrow for Sea of Thieves. I have a hard time seeing Nintendo been unable to grab Sora if they truly wants to for Smash
Do we know if it's actually him or just someone emulating his voice? There's a lot of great voice artists who can mimic people super well.

I'm pretty sure it's him, mind you. But I don't think they specified it was him during the event. If they did, I legit didn't notice it.

I agree with your point, though. Only union actors are problems for Nintendo(poor Cloud), but otherwise...
 

Audioplasma

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It's less about his chances going up and more like they never went down. I know it's weird to think that another Square character other than Geno getting in for a third time, second time in this DLC, and his costume showing up with them isn't bad for his chances, but it was all a mindset that was so focused on the Mii Costume itself that we never stopped to think about whether or not that costume even mattered.

First off, Mii Costumes do not deconfirm, and please do not let the majority pressure you into thinking otherwise because they are flat-out wrong. At best, the only argument you can make is that brand new Mii Costumes deconfirm and Premium Costumes that are clearly made to look just like the character definitely deconfirm, but not only is that not a 100% for this Pass but it means nothing should we somehow get anything after this pass. For example, I would say that the odds of Travis or Sans getting in as playable in this pass are slim to none, with Travis having a better chance, however they aren't 100% out of the running.

However, this doesn't affect returning costumes at all. Why? Well if only a couple of them had shown up by now, than maybe it would matter, but the only one we are missing now is Lloyd out of ALL the old 3rd party costumes from Smash 4. This shows clear intent to return ALL of the old 3rd party costumes from the get go as a way to make the game feel more complete and to make all these companies a bit more money, which while you may consider these costumes when picking characters, honestly if this was always planned it's not a smart business decision to let this impede who you negotiated for as playable. Keep in mind that since NONE of these costumes were in base game, this means that sometime around March 2018 is when they started work on negotiating for the return of these costumes, right alongside characters. This means that either all these companies said no to the costumes being in base game, or they weren't even asked about that during base game development. Regardless, this screams 'let's make sure we get all these 3rd party costumes back into the game' rather than 'let's only grab the ones that fit with our character choices.'

If that was a bit confusing, let me try to summarize: Reusing assets for resale is much different from making brand new content from sale, and since we've gotten all but one of the costumes back, it's clear that there was an effort made towards bringing all of them back rather than an effort to only bring back certain ones if it works with character negotiations.

In addition, Spring Man's costume didn't stop him: Spring Man was both an AT and a costume, yet despite being the most voted-for ARMS rep in the Mega Smash Poll of 2020 and the obvious choice, ARMS was out for so long (ARMS was a year old four days after the 2018 E3 Nintendo Direct, a mere three months after we know negotiations for DLC started) that when in combination with the request of Kosuke Yabuki and Min Min being the fan-favorite, it was clear she would win out over him. This means that Spring Man didn't get included only because of development timeframe and if ARMS had gotten a character in base Ultimate it would have been Spring Man. Rex is in a similar situation: it wasn't his costume that cost him being playable, but the fact that the game couldn't handle two or three characters with such graphical detail to their models active at once, forget multiple players picking the character. Factoring that in with how the Blades are very popular waifus characters and knowing you can't cut either of the girls both because of their popularity and character mechanics, Rex was the clear choice.

Once you lift the veil the community places before you on Mii Costumes, you can look back at all the things in Geno's favor and it seems nigh-magical Christmas Land: How big of a demand he's had for a long time now, the fact that Sakurai knows about this demand, the fact that Ultimate went crazy on long-term requests in base game, how Pass 1 gave two characters that fall under that (Hero and Banjo), how Pass 2 doesn't have a character like that yet, Nintendo's relationship with Square getting better and better, the fact that he's a Mario character and we had that lackluster Mario 35th, the fact that more Mario content came after the anniversary celebration and the rumors of more Mario stuff, CacoMallow still not being debunked or confirmed...there are likely many more things I can't recall at the moment.

The only thing I would say that someone can bring up that could be bad for him is Sephy already being in the pass and his costume coming with him instead of with himself. However, the same company getting more than one character in a single pass, while a pattern for sure, is still just a fan rule (which Nintendo has broken themselves already, but of course the argument has been moved to 3rd party only) as Nintendo can double dip with a company if they want to. In addition, costumes have a lot of set conditions: they have to be negotiated for and scheduled to release alongside certain characters with little to no straying from those agreements, and how many costumes that come in a wave have to be pre-determined, among other things. When you consider how Square only allows THEIR content to show up alongside THEIR content, how some waves have more than others, and how Final Fantasy is clearly very difficult to negotiate rights for, this shows that negotiating for the rights to make Aerith, Tifa and Barrett costumes was as far as they could go for new costumes and thus they negotiated for Chocobo Hat and Geno's costume to neatly wrap up the bow on old Square costumes.

This could mean that there is no more Square content in this pass, but it could also mean that Geno is either coming with enough new costumes that they couldn't fit his in there and thus it worked better with Sephy, or perhaps Geno is getting treated like the Mario character he is and he's only coming with 1st party costumes, thus the Square costumes had to come with a Square character. It's also possible that Nintendo actually got the rights to him or SMRPG stuff behind the scenes and Geno IS a 1st party character now, but perhaps he wasn't when the costume was negotiated for or some weird licensing issue where the costume is still 3rd party because when it was made or something. I think the first one is the most likely and makes the most sense.

When you think about it, Geno could easily fill up 5-6 slots, and that's if he's even getting that many to begin with. new SMRPG costumes like Mallow or Smithy could easily take up 2-3 slots, not to mention potential other Square franchises like Nier, Chrono Trigger or TWEWY filling 2-3 slots, the chance of a Premium filling a slot, and the chance that Lloyd's costume could fill a slot. Considering Geno is both a Mario and a Square character, there is really no reason not to go in hard with content to shill for more money.
I really hope you’re right and geno overcomes all odds and gets in, also one thing I’ve noticed is the order in this pass being Nintendo, Microsoft, Square, for Nintendo it’s just weird to me that they put a character in the middle of the pass and not do it at a e3 or at the end like they’re known for so I’m not saying the next two are square and Microsoft but I’ll keep the thought in the back of my head.
 

Icewolff92

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Do we know if it's actually him or just someone emulating his voice? There's a lot of great voice artists who can mimic people super well.

I'm pretty sure it's him, mind you. But I don't think they specified it was him during the event. If they did, I legit didn't notice it.

I agree with your point, though. Only union actors are problems for Nintendo(poor Cloud), but otherwise...
I don´t see how voice actor has anything to do with it, when they literally got access to characters from Pirates of the Caribbean, with Sparrow being one of them.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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I don´t see how voice actor has anything to do with it, when they literally got access to characters from Pirates of the Caribbean, with Sparrow being one of them.
The character is not the same as the voice actor. You can absolutely get characters but be unable to get the voice itself.

Licensing a person's likeness and licensing a person's voice are different things.
 

Icewolff92

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The character is not the same as the voice actor. You can absolutely get characters but be unable to get the voice itself.

Licensing a person's likeness and licensing a person's voice are different things.
Yes I know that. But I don´t know what that has to do with Nintendo potentially getting Sora
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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Yes I know that. But I don´t know what that has to do with Nintendo potentially getting Sora
No, that's all I was pointing out.

I for some reason thought you meant the particular actor, not simply the character. I dunno why. >.<;

But yeah, Sora is easy for Nintendo to get, for sure. Now the voice actors, who knows. We know they clearly don't want to pay union actors, so it entirely depends upon the voices. If Japanese voices work fine, well.

I'd be more worried about what songs Disney wants to throw in, or things like licensing, etc. Sora himself, easy. Any other nicknacks, well... who knows.
 

ForsakenM

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So Rare and Microsoft managed to get Jack Sparrow for Sea of Thieves. I have a hard time seeing Nintendo been unable to grab Sora if they truly wants to for Smash
This makes almost no sense at all. One is the rights for a character and casting said live actor to voice their typical role, but just as a VA instead of full-on acting for a franchise they've already debatably ruined and the actor has been screwed by the system and needs any gig he can get, being cast for a game that fits with the series.

The other is a gold mine of a video game series that people blindly support even when it falls short in many ways, a prized gem to a company that has failed in the video game market multiple times and feels like that have to protect this IP at all costs and a Japanese branch that cracks down extra hard, asking for a character that to properly represent the series also has to bring content from the characters who the entire company founded itself upon, to be in a game that isn't anything like his own series and will allow him to interact with many characters across all sorts of origins and genres and get the **** kicked out of him by said characters.

This isn't an attack on anyone, especially not my boy Depp, but it's just a fact that the situations are entirely different. Acting as if getting Jack Sparrow in a pirate game made by Rare who's owned by Microsoft is on the same level as Sora getting into Smash made by Nintendo and Sakurai is laughable.

I really hope you’re right and geno overcomes all odds and gets in, also one thing I’ve noticed is the order in this pass being Nintendo, Microsoft, Square, for Nintendo it’s just weird to me that they put a character in the middle of the pass and not do it at a e3 or at the end like they’re known for so I’m not saying the next two are square and Microsoft but I’ll keep the thought in the back of my head.
We will find out soon enough my friend.
 

TooManyToastahs

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Hey everyone, figured I’d stop by before tomorrow just to say hello and share some good vibrations. Whether you’re feeling hopeful or not regarding Geno’s chances at the moment, I hope you’re all still excited for what the ol’ Smash hype train is bringing into the station tomorrow.

Call me crazy but… I’m actually pretty excited and relatively optimistic for tomorrow. I was pretty devastated for awhile after Sephiroth broke our little corner of the internet (although maybe that was a necessary evil depending on who you ask), but the post ForsakenM ForsakenM made last Friday really put some things in perspective for me and helped pull me out of a super negative slump.

I have a lot to say but we’re at a point now where my aimless speculation and banter won’t matter. The homestretch is here, and whether or not we make it to the finish line is now up to fate, my word salads won’t change that.

If this is our final stop for Smash Ultimate, I just want to say it has been an absolute joy speculating with you all these past three or so years. This community has been so welcoming and kind, and I wouldn’t trade the time spent reading and interacting with all of your posts for anything in the world (except for maybe geno in smash but i’m pretty sure everyone here would agree with that sentiment haha). Seriously though, thank you guys, you all rock.

So with all that being said… One last wish guys. Let’s make this one count!
892A1385-AE32-4BF1-B64A-E6AC56AC2B0E.jpeg

I’ll see you all on the flip side tomorrow. :geno:
 

S1itchey

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Square-Enix E3 presentation being purposefully lackluster and mediocre to pave the way the way for a more brighter and explosive reveal later on……?

:grinch:
Tbh all the presentations so far have kind of sucked. The only thing I've been hype for is mario and rabbids 2 but maybe thats just because my taste are pretty specific.
 

SSGuy

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So far I am only excited that Psychonauts 2 got a release date (finally) aside from that, it's been pretty typical in terms of content you'd expect in today's gaming climate.

I don't think tomorrow that will change as I do not see Nintendo really bringing out anything that I've been wanting. The best I can hope for is Smash Ultimate comes to an ends on an extremely positive note.

I don't think I will get over how speculation went or those who are clearly in it for clout but I definitely mean it when I say I truly appreciate the past few years and everyone's passion to bring back Geno, Mallow and Super Mario RPG as a whole. Nintendo and Square Enix might never seem to care but it makes me glad there are at least hundreds of thousands of people that still want these characters back after all these years.

I just hope whatever impression I left during this experience was positive.

Edit: (Went back to fix errors due to mobile)
 
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QQS

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Can you imagine double reveal?

Crash for the insane world fan demand being the best cartoonish mascot left out there, with Rayman.

Geno for the insane fan demand, being easily the number #1 or #2 out there, with Sora.

Or maybe Crash, then Eggman (or Tails) and finally our puppet as Bonus Full Mario Fighter :’)

Im very happy for the E3 and Im expecting Zelda sequel, Zelda 35, Metroid Prime, probably new Mario, DK or Kirby, Smash DLC (Crash, Rayman, Hayabusa, Eggman, Tails, Lloyd and/or why not? GENO) & SMRPG to NSO.

Wishing for the best, and if not Geno, I’m rooting for Crash + Sonic Rep or Hayabusa. Those are my favorite candidates after Geno.

Best wishes for everyone! And never give up on Geno, he is happening eventually!
 

Icewolff92

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Tbh all the presentations so far have kind of sucked. The only thing I've been hype for is mario and rabbids 2 but maybe thats just because my taste are pretty specific.
This has (so far) been pretty much the year of RTS and FPS game with some few exceptions

Also, apparently, Nintendo has sent out stuff for their ambassadors the day before the E3 O.o Are they trying to hype it up or something?
 

Forthestarcapelad

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If Plumbers Don't Wear Ties can get a freaking re-release, do not tell me that somehow a SMRPG remake is impossible.
We now live in an era where Plumbers Don't Wear Ties is somehow relevant again and where Bubsy was allowed to be revived post Bubsy 3-D.
Since that's the case, I want a Superman 64 remake on top of my Mario RPG remake.
 
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