Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

[ForsakenM]

So far I am only excited that Psychonauts 2 got a release date (finally) aside from that, it's been pretty typical in terms of content you'd expect in today's gaming climate.

I don't think tomorrow that will change as I do not see Nintendo really bringing out anything that I've been wanting. The best I can hope for is Smash Ultimate comes to an ends on an extremely positive note.

I don't think I will get over how speculation went or those who are clearly in it for clout but I definitely mean it when I say I truly appreciate the past few years and everyone's passion to bring back Geno, Mallow and Super Mario RPG as a whole. Nintendo and Square Enix might never seem to care but it makes me glad there are at least hundreds of thousands of people that still want these characters back after all these years.

I just hope whatever impression I left during this experience was positive.

Edit: (Went back to fix errors due to mobile)

If they don't bring out anything you want, from the rumbles we've had and if they hold true to even only the smallest smigden of that, I'd have to question your taste.

This is setup to be BIG!

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

Honestly, if the fighter(s) ends up being what the current big leaks are mentioning, it’s pretty hype to me.

 

[Icewolff92]

Honestly, if the fighter(s) ends up being what the current big leaks are mentioning, it’s pretty hype to me.

Who is it?

 

[Vector Victor]

Crazy how in 3 hours, Smash speculation may truly be done.

Maybe he missed Smash, but hopefully that murmur concerning a SMRPG remake comes true today.

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

Who is it?

So far the big guess is a 4in1 as Revali, Daruk, Urbosa, and Mipha

 

[ivanlerma]

So far the big guess is a 4in1 as Revali, Daruk, Urbosa, and Mipha

Spoiler: Another Leak

Recently, there's been a beak one from a leaker(Starts with a "V") who said Master Chief

 

[Enigma735]

Posted in the wrong thread, please delete this

 

[Firox]

....Well, congrats to whoever wanted fighter #10, but I feel nothing. lol

(You can probably tell how excited I am to have yet another shoto where you just want to stay out of arm's reach for dear life)

 

[S1itchey]

The best I can say about this character is that at least his inclusion doesn't actively piss me off like pyras or sepiroth. Still this pass has really failed to capture my interest.

 

[Icewolff92]

Mario Party Superstars hype though

 

[SSGuy]

I'm pretty excited for Kazuya. Definitely a huge congratulations to everyone who wanted him or a Tekken character as a whole. It's funny how we now have Capcom vs SNK and now Street Fighter X Tekken in Smash lol

I do feel bad for Lloyd fans as they have been actively rooting for their guy to make it as long as we have with Geno so I have a ton of respect for any Lloyd/Tales of fans even with my limited to zero knowledge of the franchise.

I think the lack of SMRPG is a huge damper but I've accepted this since I can't imagine Nintendo working on Mario+Rabbids on top of another turn based game. Hopefully though they heard us out and it's something down the road. Maybe the next project for spin off Mario games. (One can hope)

 

[RedMachine123]

There's something interesting from all this, the Heihachi Mii costume came back with Min Min and not with Kazuya.

So the fact that the Geno Mii costume came back with Sephiroth and not Geno himself doesn't mean anything. I don't think this makes Geno likely again, at least not in this Fighter Pass, but it's something interesting to think about.

 

[Staarih]

There's something interesting from all this, the Heihachi Mii costume came back with Min Min and not with Kazuya.

So the fact that the Geno Mii costume came back with Sephiroth and not Geno himself doesn't mean anything. I don't think this makes Geno likely again, at least not in this Fighter Pass, but it's something interesting to think about.

Heihachi himself still isn't playable though, so while Mii Costumes from same companies/series within a pass appear to not deconfirm, the actual characters they're based of seem to still be a no-no. Spring Man, Rex and Heihachi have not been able to be playable yet they've received other playable representation. So while disappointing, it still looks a bit daunting for Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't it ****ing weird how Heihachi's costume came with Min Min and not this guy?

I think it's ****ing weird.

 

[SSGuy]

Isn't it ****ing weird how Heihachi's costume came with Min Min and not this guy?

I think it's ****ing weird.

I think a lot of it is because Lloyd is gonna most likely come with Kazuya and they didn't want to stack a Namco fighter pass with just returning costumes. As lame of an excuse as that sounds, that is probably the reasoning they did it that way when Heihachi could fit in with Min Min, another fighting game character.

 

[Deleted member]

I think a lot of it is because Lloyd is gonna most likely come with Kazuya and they didn't want to stack a Namco fighter pass with just returning costumes. As lame of an excuse as that sounds, that is probably the reasoning they did it that way when Heihachi could fit in with Min Min, another fighting game character.

Like they did with Tails and Knuckles outfits in a Sega fighter pass?

 

[RedMachine123]

I think a lot of it is because Lloyd is gonna most likely come with Kazuya and they didn't want to stack a Namco fighter pass with just returning costumes. As lame of an excuse as that sounds, that is probably the reasoning they did it that way when Heihachi could fit in with Min Min, another fighting game character.

But if that was the case it would make more sense to bring back Lloyd with Min Min and save Heihachi for Kazuya since both are fighting game characters and are from the same series.

Heihachi himself still isn't playable, so while Mii Costumes from same companies/series within a pass appear to not deconfirm, the actual characters they're based of seem to still be a no-no. Spring Man, Rex and Heihachi have not been able to be playable yet they've received other playable representation. So while disappointing, it still looks a bit daunting for Geno.

As I said before, I don't think that means that Geno is going to get in, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS PASS, but It was something I wanted to point out for future speculation.

 

[SSGuy]

But if that was the case it would make more sense to bring back Lloyd with Min Min and save Heihachi for Kazuya since both are fighting game characters and are from the same series.



As I said before, I don't think that means that Geno is going to get in, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS PASS, but It was something I wanted to point out for future speculation.

I think a lot of it can be viewed as semantics at this point but I think why Heihachi was with Min Min instead of Lloyd is because while both are Namco characters, Heihachi is also a fighting game character which is closer to Min Min's genre of game.

Like they did with Tails and Knuckles outfits in a Sega fighter pass?

They get a pass in my book for Atlus being a SEGA owned property now. The only true outlier would be Capcom since they so far have had no DLC included.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Overall, I'm ok with Kazuya. Not my kind of character but I absolutely respect Tekken and found Terry actually really fun to play so I think it's one of the better additions so far. I still don't have much incentive to get the pass though. Feeling bad for Llyod fans tho.

The presentation really surprised me in good ways. I was already excited for Mario + Rabbids 2 and it looks fun. Metroid Dread is really fascinating and at the very least I look forward to the Amiibo. Advanced Wars was amazing to see. The new Mario Party looks really cool. The LoZ presentation was lackluster tho.

I think the lack of SMRPG is a huge damper but I've accepted this since I can't imagine Nintendo working on Mario+Rabbids on top of another turn based game. Hopefully though they heard us out and it's something down the road. Maybe the next project for spin off Mario games. (One can hope)

True no SMRPG but a lot of rumors panned out today which could be promising for us. I don't think your point about Mario + Rabbids 2 matters because in the presentation they made it sound like it was going to be more RTS than turn based.

 

[Deleted member]

They get a pass in my book for Atlus being a SEGA owned property now. The only true outlier would be Capcom since they so far have had no DLC included.

Now that's just silly.

As I said before, I don't think that means that Geno is going to get in, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS PASS, but It was something I wanted to point out for future speculation.

The odd placement of the costumes means exactly one thing: none of this means anything. They just do whatever they want in some manner according to assets they have ready or licenses that they have prepared and on hand. We've been trying to read writing on the wall when it's nothing but haphazardly placed graffiti, and not by an artful hand.

Let the chaos continue - it's obvious now that they do indeed intend to drag this fighter pass out over 2021 just like they said they would.

 

[SSGuy]

Overall, I'm ok with Kazuya. Not my kind of character but I absolutely respect Tekken and found Terry actually really fun to play so I think it's one of the better additions so far. I still don't have much incentive to get the pass though. Feeling bad for Llyod fans tho.

The presentation really surprised me in good ways. I was already excited for Mario + Rabbids 2 and it looks fun. Metroid Dread is really fascinating and at the very least I look forward to the Amiibo. Advanced Wars was amazing to see. The new Mario Party looks really cool. The LoZ presentation was lackluster tho.


True no SMRPG but a lot of rumors panned out today which could be promising for us. I don't think your point about Mario + Rabbids 2 matters because in the presentation they made it sound like it was going to be more RTS than turn based.

Well, I think in terms of release/launch, it doesn't seem ideal for them to release multiple spin off Mario games of turn based combat at the same time. Maybe next year, y'know.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Isn't it ****ing weird how Heihachi's costume came with Min Min and not this guy?

I think it's ****ing weird.

Very weird indeed. It means nothing for Geno's zero chances at getting in, but nonetheless, super duper weird.

 

[Deleted member]

Very weird indeed. It means nothing for Geno's zero chances at getting in, but nonetheless, super duper weird.

Well at least the chances aren't negative.

 

[Geno Boost]

its not impossible for Geno to be the last fighter remember that people thought tekken rep was out of the table when Heihachi mii costume was announced

 

[S1itchey]

its not impossible for Geno to be the last fighter remember that people thought tekken rep was out of the table when Heihachi mii costume was announced

I know we're trying to be optimistic here but come on. They dont give a crap about us and realistically geno is done for smash. The most we can hope for is that the smrpg remake rumors are true but in terms of smash bros square already showed that geno in smash was just not happening.

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

Eh. I'm pretty alright with Kazuya personally.

Not a Tekken fan per say, but I did play a bit of it when I was younger and enjoyed playing him. Plus his little... transformation mechanic (wasn't sure how it would work for what we saw) interests me more than that one winged angel stuff Sephiroth had.

Would have preferred Crash easily, but I'm hoping this out of nowhere, left field stuff that Sakurai always pulls ends up paying off for us in the end too (I know, chances are extremely low and next to nothing, but that just makes the notion of it actually happening too tantalizing to just give up entirely).

 

[SSGuy]

its not impossible for Geno to be the last fighter remember that people thought tekken rep was out of the table when Heihachi mii costume was announced

My only concern is that it seems the Mii Costume is set in stone for determined representation like Assist Trophies. However, Sakurai did mention he was considering Rex to be the playable Xenoblade character well after he had a Mii Costume so maybe it shouldn't be the best idea to make arbitrary rules up.

However, with one character left I'm not expecting something out of left field. I don't think Sakurai will make a FP3 out of thin air. He's been pretty adamant on these being the final characters. For a game that's been announced 3 years ago, that's understandable.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

So I was completely unaware of a 2nd Geno support thread being a thing, but I'm definitely not complaining.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One difference to note is that Geno's costume was likely meant to come back in Pass 1, meaning he as a character wasn't completely unviable for Pass 2.

I'm not saying it means much, but it coming back in Pass 2 shouldn't change that factor. It was simply timed to be with the Square part of the characters, while the Enix stuff was together. That, and Geno fits more with Chocobo and other FFVII stuff. Let's be real, SMRPG is basically Mario + Final Fantasy style. So that could've been planned out also due to being more "fitting" alone.

There's a lot we don't know.

I'd actually 99% throw him out if he was a Premium, since that requires way more work and more than typical "can we use this again" licensing. Not saying I consider him likely either. And I definitely think this massively hurt his chances too. But we know costumes aren't the be-end all. Rex was still going to be possible despite the costume, and while they went with Kazuya, it's likely not cause of the Heihachi costume. Heihachi's voice actor died, and both characters do have similar abilities(compared Nightmare and Siegfired, or even Mario and Luigi from the start), so you could still get the ideal feel of the basic character, even if it's not perfect. This means Nintendo has to find a new actor, and Kazuya is also an important character in his own right while being an active villain in the latest games, making him still a useful choice for the series. He's also a protagonist from game 1 too. Note that the two have diversified throughout the series, but they're similar enough you could do an Echo too.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Well at least the chances aren't negative.

Don't get me wrong, I want Geno. He used to be my most wanted. I just don't think he's happening, since the costume came back. If we were getting another pass, I might have a little more hope, but Sakurai has made statements alluding to pass 2 being the last one. That means Geno also has to grapple with there only being one spot left, maybe two on the small chance they give us one last bonus character. And there are a lot of characters who could reasonably be chosen over Geno.

 

[Icewolff92]

I know we're trying to be optimistic here but come on. They dont give a crap about us and realistically geno is done for smash. The most we can hope for is that the smrpg remake rumors are true but in terms of smash bros square already showed that geno in smash was just not happening.

Plus its not like its Heihachi that became playable

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Well here we are once more on the brink of death. We’re a real stubborn bunch haha, but I think today gave us some good speculation so might as well talk about it.

This fighter’s pass, at least to me, feels like it’s trying to tie up a lot of loose ends with Smash Bros.

Spoiler: Loose ends tied up

• Min Min was added as an ARMS rep, a series Sakurai wanted to have represented in the base game roster but couldn’t due to time constraints.
• Steve would’ve probably shown up earlier but his negotiations took 5 years(!) I believe, so the timing just kinda added up for him to show in FP 2
• Sephiroth helped to finally fill the gaping void that was Final Fantasy VII content in Smash
• Pyra and Mythra were a similar case to Min Min, being characters Sakurai wanted playable in the base roster of Smash Ultimate (albeit alongside Rex, but perhaps due to technical limitations he couldn’t get them to work together in the way he wanted).
• And now Kazuya, who feels like a way to make amends for Sakurai being unable to incorporate a character from Tekken in Smash 4 due to technical limitations. I do think that it’s likely Heihachi would’ve still been chosen regardless of his Mii costume coming back, but they probably went with Kazuya for the reasons Verde Coeden Scalesworth brought up.

I am also still of the opinion that all of the Smash 4 Mii costumes were coming back regardless of who was chosen as a part of this pass, and Geno not getting an upgraded Mii costume might actually be a serious silver lining for the guy when you take into account the “tied up loose ends” idea as well.

Think about it this way, Geno was explicitly stated to have been a fighter Sakurai wanted in Smash Brawl and Smash 4, but he just never ended up materializing (most likely due to the legal hurdles he needed to jump through in order to include him in the game). He’s also one of the most highly requested characters that has yet to become a fully fledged fighters with a support base that’s been around since Melee apparently. Seems to me like his addition in Smash would be a pretty big loose end tied up, eh? And what better way to officially close out Smash Ultimate’s roster of characters than with one last crazy hype reveal, one last fan request, one last wish. It’s down right poetic if you ask me.

I should probably reiterate though, I still do not think his chances are very good. I have my expectations in check here, Geno still getting into Smash Ultimate would be nothing short of a miracle. But hey, like @Serenade01 said, at least his chances aren’t zero. One more character left (maybe two if we consider the bonus fighter idea a possibility), might as well ride the Smash train into the station before finally retiring for good.

 

[Geno Boost]

its important to remember that there is a factor that still help Geno chances and that is

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Kazuya definitely seems to fit the bill of "truly extra" like the other fighters in pass 2. Other than perhaps Sephiroth, who still has mechanics to make him stand out but is kinda same-y to other characters, these pass 2 fighters all have whacky gimmicks and movesets that really set them apart and it's clear that Kazuya will dip into some more of those crazy fighting game mechanics in a way other characters haven't quite tapped into to the same degree. The problem we have now is that that there are so many characters who can bring something new to Smash and have whacky gimmicks and very involved movesets and like TooManyToastahs said tie up loose ends that we still really don't have anything to go off of in terms of speculation. Rayman ties up loose ends and can bring a zany moveset as could Geno or Isaac, etc.

After all this time it has become kind of apparent that Nintendo really probably did just say "wouldn't it be cool if x was in Smash? Can you do that Sakurai?" And Sakurai was just like..."I'll do that but to the most ridiculous degree possible." The only rhyme or reason here is just what Nintendo thought x character would be cool and profitable and Sakurai just ran with that. I think that's the message here and that is both good and bad for speculation. It means there's really not much of a pattern to follow, but also Nintendo clearly has a broad idea of what's cool and profitable so that means we can kind of just justify whoever we want. The only real rule seems to be no non video game characters. It's funny because that's what many of us have been saying since the beginning but people, including myself, were determined to create rules.

I'm not sure who will be last. I am wondering if we will end on a high note or not. Maybe it'll be first party. Maybe Master Chief really will finish the fight. Maybe Geno will grant our wish in spite of my many doubts about it. At any rate, Kazuya has given me a strange peace about the whole thing. I feel like I can finally just enjoy this again. I'm ready to see who this last character is and be excited for their fanbase. I think it's exciting that Smash has made such a name for itself that we have SNK vs Capcom vs Tekken vs Nintendo. The matchups in Ultimate are so insane. I never would have imagined a roster like this and I'm grateful for it. I believe the Smash series will continue and that Ultimate proves that, despite any roster cuts, Smash will always make a name for itself and go above and beyond to give fans an experience they can't get anywhere else. It's truly wild.

 

[Icewolff92]

Kazuya definitely seems to fit the bill of "truly extra" like the other fighters in pass 2. Other than perhaps Sephiroth, who still has mechanics to make him stand out but is kinda same-y to other characters, these pass 2 fighters all have whacky gimmicks and movesets that really set them apart and it's clear that Kazuya will dip into some more of those crazy fighting game mechanics in a way other characters haven't quite tapped into to the same degree. The problem we have now is that that there are so many characters who can bring something new to Smash and have whacky gimmicks and very involved movesets and like TooManyToastahs said tie up loose ends that we still really don't have anything to go off of in terms of speculation. Rayman ties up loose ends and can bring a zany moveset as could Geno or Isaac, etc.

After all this time it has become kind of apparent that Nintendo really probably did just say "wouldn't it be cool if x was in Smash? Can you do that Sakurai?" And Sakurai was just like..."I'll do that but to the most ridiculous degree possible." The only rhyme or reason here is just what Nintendo thought x character would be cool and profitable and Sakurai just ran with that. I think that's the message here and that is both good and bad for speculation. It means there's really not much of a pattern to follow, but also Nintendo clearly has a broad idea of what's cool and profitable so that means we can kind of just justify whoever we want. The only real rule seems to be no non video game characters. It's funny because that's what many of us have been saying since the beginning but people, including myself, were determined to create rules.

I'm not sure who will be last. I am wondering if we will end on a high note or not. Maybe it'll be first party. Maybe Master Chief really will finish the fight. Maybe Geno will grant our wish in spite of my many doubts about it. At any rate, Kazuya has given me a strange peace about the whole thing. I feel like I can finally just enjoy this again. I'm ready to see who this last character is and be excited for their fanbase. I think it's exciting that Smash has made such a name for itself that we have SNK vs Capcom vs Tekken vs Nintendo. The matchups in Ultimate are so insane. I never would have imagined a roster like this and I'm grateful for it. I believe the Smash series will continue and that Ultimate proves that, despite any roster cuts, Smash will always make a name for itself and go above and beyond to give fans an experience they can't get anywhere else. It's truly wild.

I think it's a first-party like maybe Sylux or that speculated 4n1 Champion from BOTW fighter

 

[ivanlerma]

I think it's a first-party like maybe Sylux or that speculated 4n1 Champion from BOTW fighter

Or Ayumi or even Akira Howard

 

[Icewolff92]

Or Ayumi or even Akira Howard

God, I would love Akira Howard in the game

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's a first-party like maybe Sylux or that speculated 4n1 Champion from BOTW fighter

Careful, the puritan patrol might pull you over for that image. I very much think that "2-in-1" is now and always has been a stretch for Banjo and Kazooie. Banjo is very much just one character who happens to have a living sword... Which is a much better comparison to Pythra, now that I think about it.

The point I'm trying to make here is that trying to find a pattern, either something somewhat over-simplistic like this "mirror" idea or things more complex are needlessly limiting. We know some select facts about whoever Fighter 11 is, and one of the most important (possibly the most important) ones, I think, is that whoever it is has some officially produced figure that Sakurai and his team has used as a reference for their model.

I'm sure the fact that the presentation for Kazuya is 40 minutes long is purely going to be for Sakurai to explain why they've updated the game to show a moves list whenever it's paused while Kazuya is in game, but I'm really wondering if he'll have costumes for Heihachi or Jin. Do you suppose if Kazuya can skin-swap into Heihachi the Mii Costume detractors will give up?

 

[Geno Boost]

Patterns between fighter pack 1 and 2 don’t make sense especially that fighter pack 2 consists of characters that were originally had to be in the but it was too late to be added or require more time to figure out how they will funcion

-Arms and xenonblade 2 rep and all were originally intended to be in the base game but it was too late when the roster was decided.
-Minecraft rep required 5 years in order to make it properly work and remember vergeben did mention of Minecraft content coming to smash WAY too long before Steve was finally ready.
-Tekken rep was brought back to the table after finally figuring out how to implement the Tekken playstyle in smash as it was original intended to be in smash 4.
-Sephiroth probably got in to properly bring the final fantasy 7 content that was missing from the base game which required to go through multiple legal use.

If anything that’s probably a good sign for Geno to be the last fighter as that’s still on their table since brawl keep in mind it was never stated why he wasn’t included. And remember when smash ultimate was released at first the only square-enix spririt was brought is Geno and Mallow they made sure to include that first before any other square-enix spirit content which shows there was still negotiation going on between Sakurai and Square-enix regarding SMRPG content.
As for the 3rd party mii costume returning as DLC this was probably decided from the beginning it’s not for deconfirmation purpose but more for marketing the other companies to get money.

 

[Deleted member]

it was never stated why he wasn’t included.

It's been literally half a year and I still think this is a slept on point, a much bigger one than people, even in this community, really want to give it credit for. Sakurai spoke at length about how Geno's costume was the best they could do in 4... But it's deeper than that. He talked about Rex's costume in an apologetic fashion as well. He went on about Sans' inclusion as a costume almost as long as he would just introducing a character. It's a bit defeatist to look at the lack of explanation as nothing significant, from a project lead who has in the past illustrated some level of personal investment in the character. Sakurai's not just some businessman, he's very clearly tapped into the pulse of the community that's formed around his game. The fact that he didn't mention it, even in one of the followup columns he writes for Famitsu, is suspect, full stop.