Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Ah normal numbers now in this server. For me I think I will personally throw in the towel at the end of March or CP9, whichever comes first.

Mario celebration is over then, and then maybe if CP11 rolls around I can hop back on the train. But that one would require some convincing to do so. Something does not sit right with the Mii treatment here.

As a reminder, this is the guy betting $5,000 that Geno is playable by the end of DLC. Awkwah is a great guy and I can say he believes this because me and him talk to a lot of the same people and almost all of them are currently saying the exact same thing: "wait." We're not going this route because we're naive, we're going this route based on our own research and connections.

 

[NapoleonBeezwax]

Fatmanonice im gonna be blunt

**** the trolls. **** em to hell. give it to me striagt up is geno still likely to be playable in this game? i dont think you and a awkwah are lying either. literally YEARS of evidence dont equal mii costume port from smash 4.

let me resay it at the top of my lung

**** THE TROLL

please tell me, what are the chances of geno playable in smash bros ultimate, im asking what YOU think, not what a troll sitting in a stinky diper thinks

 

[NapoleonBeezwax]

actually i am to apologise for my last post. i got carried away i am sorry. im just sick of trying to discuss this in a harmless way and then trolls change the subject i dont care if they think geno is not playable if they do they shouldnt care if i am asking people questions in a harmless way

 

[xNovaNebulax]

I got them from here! https://www.superluigibros.com/super-mario-rpg-sound-effects-wav

I used Geno Stargun and Geno genobeam respectively

thank you! i was thinking of recreating my story board from 2 years ago but i used sound effects that werent the mario rpg ones as i was never able to find them! youre my hero rn!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice im gonna be blunt

** the trolls. ** em to hell. give it to me striagt up is geno still likely to be playable in this game? i dont think you and a awkwah are lying either. literally YEARS of evidence dont equal mii costume port from smash 4.

let me resay it at the top of my lung

**** THE TROLL

please tell me, what are the chances of geno playable in smash bros ultimate, im asking what YOU think, not what a troll sitting in a stinky diper thinks

I'm basically with Awkwah: the Mario 35th anniversary has been extended to the end of March so this seems like the most reasonable time frame for Geno (and arguably Waluigi) to be announced based on everything we've heard. After this, the odds almost completely flatline to a total miracle situation and, like Awkwah said, expecting Geno between FP9 and FP11 is basically a lost cause. Of course, I'm still going to ride things out regardless and, as I said yesterday, the people indignant that I didn't explode into a green fart cloud with the reveal of the Geno Mii costume can die mad about it but it would be a waste of both of our times.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly, I always did feel like that online Mario themed tourney was an omen towards Geno or really any Mario character.

I just felt like if we really were getting a new Mario universe character this pass, they would of fast tracked them to be one of the first newcomers revealed, in time for Mario's 35th and thus in time for the online Mario tournament they did for Smash.

 

[Icewolff92]

I believe this is why:

So this is kind of interesting. Nintendo not allowing PlayVS to run competition because they claim to be working on collegiate esports themselves?

Seems unlikely considering their complete lack of involvement in the amateur/pro level. pic.twitter.com/cJenLc6QhD

— Shaun Byrne 🇨🇦 (@TheEsportsProf) December 18, 2020

Them supporting the competitive scene... yeah right

 

[NapoleonBeezwax]

thank you for clarificaton. I will be waiting for march but not expecting anything but still am i the only one who just doesnt see how all this ended result in a standard geno mii if it was a sans cuphead style mii with a face it would make more sense but no its basically like they just crappd out the mii costume again the same one from smash 4 and it seems off

 

[Fatmanonice]

Honestly, I always did feel like that online Mario themed tourney was an omen towards Geno or really any Mario character.

I just felt like if we really were getting a new Mario universe character this pass, they would of fast tracked them to be one of the first newcomers revealed, in time for Mario's 35th and thus in time for the online Mario tournament they did for Smash.

And that's sort of thing too. COVID has royally wrecked everything so getting a finger on the pulse of things is like trying to put a sweater on a scared cat. Games and events have been significantly delayed and we're still trying to figure out when everything was "supposed to be." For example, that Mario Maker 2 tournament that was in mid November? That was originally supposed to be in April! Our theorycraft is that the Mario Smash tournament was supposed to be in September because the evidence is pretty stacked that there was supposed to be a September Smash release but we don't know this absolutely. The Mario Direct was supposed to be in June around or at E3 and there's a lot of evidence that Steve and Sephiroth were supposed to be our E3 2020 reveals. Was there going to be a Fall Direct? Was there going to be a Smash reveal in this Direct? We don't know and this year has felt like trying to put together a puzzle while someone is shaking the table.

 

[Geno Boost]

I haven’t given up hope completely about playable Geno DLC because I do realize that every DLC costume is being brought back I don’t think any Mii Costume should be removed as it is easier to bring it from the Wii U to the switch than making a new one
Remember when this game has released the Mii Costume of are still there they didn’t bother to remove it as for the 3rd party Mii Costume they are being sold again just to give extra money to each owner/company which I wouldnt say its a bad idea but not necessarily for a deconfirmation purposes unless if it’s a new Mii Costume

 

[Spatulo]

I'm basically with Awkwah: the Mario 35th anniversary has been extended to the end of March so this seems like the most reasonable time frame for Geno (and arguably Waluigi) to be announced based on everything we've heard. After this, the odds almost completely flatline to a total miracle situation and, like Awkwah said, expecting Geno between FP9 and FP11 is basically a lost cause. Of course, I'm still going to ride things out regardless and, as I said yesterday, the people indignant that I didn't explode into a green fart cloud with the reveal of the Geno Mii costume can die mad about it but it would be a waste of both of our times.

March IS when the new Amiibo are releasing...

Amiibo theory never dies

 

[Paraspikey]

There is a lot about the Geno situation we do not know, but I can say, due to the amount of people who has indeed heard Geno, I find it really hard to believe it's "leakbait", I also wouldn't pass anything off as "leakbait" anyways because time and time again this year, the idea of "leakbait" has been disproven by the 3DAS collection, Steve and Sephiroth, 3D World port, etc.

I can't count how many people has heard of a Mallow Mii, so it's good to hold out hope when it comes to Geno, this costume probably doesn't deconfirm him in my opinion and feel free to harass me due to that.

I see the Mii as another obstacle currently, not a hard deconfirmation, and Mii costumes can already become playable characters, so the rule has already been broken.

What could of happened if Geno gets in as a fighter, they didn't want to make whole new contracts with SE when it comes to the costumes, so they just decided to bring the Geno Mii back and then make one of the biggest reveal comebacks we've seen.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

i mean,this sounds impossible, but the costumes deconfirm fan theory, is just that.. a fan theory... i mean, we have to wait until marc to be honest, that is when the anniversary is.

i have barely any hope about seeing anything mario rpg related but.. we shall see

 

[Super10ZX]

March IS when the new Amiibo are releasing...

Amiibo theory never dies

That just made me realize Sephiroth didn't tie into any amiibo releases. Maybe a sign that he and whatever amiibos were supposed to come with him were separated cause of how much this year sucks?

 

[Strife]

Does anyone feels like Geno's inclusion in Smash as a playable character would diminish the game's roster? Smash Ultimate has kind of become a game for the industry rockstars or hall of famers, and wouldn't including a character like Geno(one game, non protagonist, 25 years ago) diminish the honor of what it means for a character to get into smash even despite his cult following?

 

[YsDisciple]

Something that has been mentioned in previous posts is that indeed, Fighters Pass Vol. 2 came to break fan-made rules. Heck, even the base game broke some fan-made rules as well. From what we can gather (excuses if I miss one or two) we've had,

Base Game Broken Fan Rules

• Ridley is "too big".
• King K. Rool hasn't been the main villain in Donkey Kong games; he's "irrelevant" now.

Fighters Pass Broken Fan Rules

• Banjo & Kazooie will never be in Smash. They're owned by a rival Company and haven't been in a new game for years.
• There's no way they'll add another Fire Emblem character.
• DLC characters will only be from series yet to be represented in Smash.

Fighters Pass Vol. 2 Broken Fan Rules

• Spirits deconfirm characters.
• There's no way a Third Party will double dip on DLC (hi Microsoft and Square Enix)
• Square Enix is soo stingy with their content (hi Sephiroth)

There are surely other fan rules still being held up, of which two that come to mind are,

• Assist Trophies deconfirm characters.
• Mii Costumes deconfirm characters.

Ultimate's DLC cycle ain't over yet, and there are quite a number of characters that can be the champions to break either of these two fan-made rules plus some that have already been broken.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Does anyone feels like Geno's inclusion in Smash as a playable character would diminish the game's roster? Smash Ultimate has kind of become a game for the industry rockstars or hall of famers, and wouldn't including a character like Geno(one game, non protagonist, 25 years ago) diminish the honor of what it means for a character to get into smash even despite his cult following?

We already have a character who was literally picked before their game was even finished. If a character in those circumstances can make it into the "hall of fame" for video games, then Geno already more than qualifies.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Does anyone feels like Geno's inclusion in Smash as a playable character would diminish the game's roster? Smash Ultimate has kind of become a game for the industry rockstars or hall of famers, and wouldn't including a character like Geno(one game, non protagonist, 25 years ago) diminish the honor of what it means for a character to get into smash even despite his cult following?

Counterpoint:

 

[NapoleonBeezwax]

Paraspikey i think that is a good point about renewing a contract to bring back a geno mii, i never thought of it that way. Honestly, it would explain t for me why they didnt make it a sans style costume. I understand that square enix is hard to deal with in music but i dont see why a full modeled geno head would have been so much work when sans and cuphead were received so good plus vault boy didnt have music so it is not a requirement and neither did bomerman

 

[Genoxys]

Does anyone feels like Geno's inclusion in Smash as a playable character would diminish the game's roster? Smash Ultimate has kind of become a game for the industry rockstars or hall of famers, and wouldn't including a character like Geno(one game, non protagonist, 25 years ago) diminish the honor of what it means for a character to get into smash even despite his cult following?

That's how I felt when Wii fit trainer was revealed. When ice climbers (their game wasn't even very popular or good!) was added....Piranha plant? In theory, SEPHIROTH is supposed to be on par with a random Piranha plant. Duck hunt was a non protagonist from one game even longer ago. And Geno represents the Mario RPG line of games, which (when you include the sequels to SMRPG) have sold well over 10 M copies, probably nearing 20 M. He doesn't drag it down, but he also doesn't particularly boost it.

 

[Icewolff92]

There is a lot about the Geno situation we do not know, but I can say, due to the amount of people who has indeed heard Geno, I find it really hard to believe it's "leakbait", I also wouldn't pass anything off as "leakbait" anyways because time and time again this year, the idea of "leakbait" has been disproven by the 3DAS collection, Steve and Sephiroth, 3D World port, etc.

I can't count how many people has heard of a Mallow Mii, so it's good to hold out hope when it comes to Geno, this costume probably doesn't deconfirm him in my opinion and feel free to harass me due to that.

I see the Mii as another obstacle currently, not a hard deconfirmation, and Mii costumes can already become playable characters, so the rule has already been broken.

What could of happened if Geno gets in as a fighter, they didn't want to make whole new contracts with SE when it comes to the costumes, so they just decided to bring the Geno Mii back and then make one of the biggest reveal comebacks we've seen.

If you are talking about Jeff, Imran and Andre, they were just ****talking

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You know guys, with how toxic trolls and detractors are in the Smash community and how they have been treating us Geno fans over the course of Ultimate speculation, I think I'm going to call it quits period for the speculation game after Ultimate's DLC cycle is over.

I've been part of the speculation scene since the pre-Smash 4 release days on the Smash Sub-Reddit. So in my 6 years of speculating, I've seen how toxic a lot of people in the Smash community can be. Us Ridley fans were where you guys are at right now back in the 50 Fact-Extravaganza Direct back in October of 2014. A lot of people made fun of us calling us delusional after we find out that the silhouette on Pyrosphere was just a stage hazard and not a playable character. People made fun of us K. Rool fans when he got costumed in July of 2015 telling us he's unrelevant calling him a potential wastle of a slot and claiming he would just be a Bowser clone only to go two face and said they loved him after he got into Ultimate. Us Banjo & Kazooie fans pretty much went through the same **** storm as us K. Rool fans as Banjo & Kazooie was considered unrelevant and they were owned by Microsoft which people thought would never get a rep.

I really want Goemon, Krystal, Dixie, Shantae, Geno, ect but I've been doing this speculating game for 6 years and I'm tired of it all especially with how much worse trolls and detractors have become over the years. I think Ultimate will be my last rodeo because I don't think I can go another round of speculation in Smash 6 with having to hear all the bull**** from trolls and detractors.

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

There are surely other fan rules still being held up, of which two that come to mind are,

• Assist Trophies deconfirm characters.
• Mii Costumes deconfirm characters.

Ultimate's DLC cycle ain't over yet, and there are quite a number of characters that can be the champions to break either of these two fan-made rules plus some that have already been broken.

These two rules to me are very flakey rules too.

There are tons of characters that have both a mii costume AND a character. The only difference is, we are getting them in a reverse order. I think if there was no character that had any costume part equivelent, then this rule would hold up more.

As for assist trophies, there are a few things I thihnk about. Do we consider Deluxe Mii Costumes as "characters"? If so, rule is broken (Bomberman). If not, it really wouldn't be hard to think around this by coding in specific assist trophies not appearing with specific characters in the match. Not that any of the rules follow some sort of logic or flow.

I really need to make myself a profile picture!

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

If you are talking about Jeff, Imran and Andre, they were just ****talking

Were they? Maybe they are pulling damage control.

It's weird to think people are suddenly listening to them as telling to truth now. It creates a weird paradox.

If we believe they are capable of lying before, how do we know they are not lying right now? What if, instead, they were telling the truth before. Now they are lying for some sort of damage control because they are uncertain.

Hell, if you think you got something wrong in your field, you may lie to try and save face. It's easier to say, "haha, just kidding', instead of, "Man, I thought FOR SURE this was going to happen. I might have been wrong."

 

[Fatmanonice]

That just made me realize Sephiroth didn't tie into any amiibo releases. Maybe a sign that he and whatever amiibos were supposed to come with him were separated cause of how much this year sucks?

Here's the thing too... Thanks to the Polish Amiibo leak in May, we know the following Smash Amiibo were originally planned for September 18th:

Polish retailer listing may point to amiibo reprint on the way

Here we amii-go

gonintendo.com

Rereleases: Mario, Luigi, Daisy, Link, Ganondorf, Young Link, Zelda, Cloud, Cloud 2, Ryu

New: Joker, Hero

It's very heavily implied that there was supposed to be a September release and that release was more than likely Sephiroth based on the Cloud and Hero Amiibos. This Amiibo wave, however, was pushed back from the 18th to the 25th and October 2nd to accompany Steve. Based on this, it's reasonable to deduce that Banjo, Terry, and Byleth were supposed to come with Steve but COVID but threw a massive wrench in new Amiibo production, delaying it 6 months.

 

[Paraspikey]

If you are talking about Jeff, Imran and Andre, they were just ****talking

I was not talking about either of them.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Does anyone feels like Geno's inclusion in Smash as a playable character would diminish the game's roster? Smash Ultimate has kind of become a game for the industry rockstars or hall of famers, and wouldn't including a character like Geno(one game, non protagonist, 25 years ago) diminish the honor of what it means for a character to get into smash even despite his cult following?

You're really asking this question in the Geno thread? Really? Regardless if Geno is a one off side characters, so many people have been requesting him for years since the Melee days and honestly our voices should be enough to say Geno deserves to be in this roster with how long and hard we have fought for him.

 

[Icewolff92]

Were they? Maybe they are pulling damage control.

It's weird to think people are suddenly listening to them as telling to truth now. It creates a weird paradox.

If we believe they are capable of lying before, how do we know they are not lying right now? What if, instead, they were telling the truth before. Now they are lying for some sort of damage control because they are uncertain.

Hell, if you think you got something wrong in your field, you may lie to try and save face. It's easier to say, "haha, just kidding', instead of, "Man, I thought FOR SURE this was going to happen. I might have been wrong."

Well.. have you seen Andres's reaction when they reveal Genos costume? He looks downright destroyed, and not in a "faked destroyed" way. So I don´t think they have heard anything. But if they have, Nintendo played them like a fiddle with leakbaiting him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEifg6p7llQ&ab_channel=GameXplain

I was not talking about either of them.

Check my point above, and you know why I suspect Geno was nothing more than leakbait. I hope I´m wrong though

 

[Paraspikey]

If Steve wasn't leakbait, nor anything else, I really doubt it exists.
Leakbait was made up so leakers can save themselves from being wrong, "It was the company giving me bad information i wasn't wrong!!!", Nintendo doesn't waste resources finding sources and giving them bad information or purposely lie to their marketing team, Nintendo doesn't bait people and I'm surprised the whole concept of leakbait has yet to go away.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's honestly wild to me that people still harp about the "sanctity" of Smash Bros when Ultimate is the only game in the universe that Snake, Ganondorf, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Ridley, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, and Sephiroth can have ****in' rabbit ears...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Fanrules are weird in the sense in that all who use thrm, overestimate their value. They are to me nothing more than that what we know of how Smash development works and how characters are chosen distilled in easy to swallow one-liners. Somewhere down the line, people stopped seeing them as factors that can be outweighed and more like hard rules. (Leading to takes like “K. Rool’s disappearance from the DKC franchise was a stupid fanrule“, when that disappearance was most likely outweighed by his prominence back when he was indeed the star villain of DKC) when there’s a lot of fluidity in why these factors hinder or help.

Geno, for example, is a very min-maxed character. From the surface, he’s a Mario character that appeared once 25 years ago, joining the ranks of Wart and Tatanga. However, his immense and lasting popularity keeps him on the map. If he’s in, does that mean that Wart is next in line? Probably not. While being a one-off in an old game are not unovercomable obstacles (you know the retros), they are factors that do render a character more unlikely, and Geno being on the map is a result of a more overwhelming factor: The fanbase.

Fanrules aren’t black and white, and treating them as such is waiting for them to be ”broken”, but to go the other way and say that they do not exist is weird.

Also I’ve supported Daisy too long to see “characters that broke fanrules” list exclude her. She was “a spin-off character” before she got revealed first and foremost.

 

[Awkwah]

Now I want Wart, thanks alot

 

[Icewolff92]

If Steve wasn't leakbait, nor anything else, I really doubt it exists.
Leakbait was made up so leakers can save themselves from being wrong, "It was the company giving me bad information i wasn't wrong!!!", Nintendo doesn't waste resources finding sources and giving them bad information or purposely lie to their marketing team, Nintendo doesn't bait people and I'm surprised the whole concept of leakbait has yet to go away.

Then what about Star Fox Grand Prix? A game that literally never existed yet a ton of leakers had heard about?

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

Well.. have you seen Andres's reaction when they reveal Genos costume? He looks downright destroyed, and not in a "faked destroyed" way. So I don´t think they have heard anything. But if they have, Nintendo played them like a fiddle with leakbaiting him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEifg6p7llQ&ab_channel=GameXplain

" Hell, if you think you got something wrong in your field, you may lie to try and save face. It's easier to say, "haha, just kidding', instead of, "Man, I thought FOR SURE this was going to happen. I might have been wrong." "

1. He may not KNOW he was correct in the information he heard. If both were always intended to come back, the one he didn't know about just came back first.

2. I can add sad music to any reaction. It makes it seem a million times worse. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I want to read into that small clip of the video. It's not a denail thing, it's a human interaction thing. I'd have to see his reaction for the rest of the video. Which, honestly, I could find myself. Going to do some digging.

Edit: His default expression through, pretty well, the entire stream. With black and white and some music over it. It also didn't effect him in any way towards the stream after it. (Yes, he does have a reaction video to do). It's just not a good clip or video to say he's distraught over it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Now I want Wart, thanks alot

He would be very fun, agreed.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Also I’ve supported Daisy too long to see “characters that broke fanrules” list exclude her. She was “a spin-off character” before she got revealed first and foremost.

Troll/detractor: NO SHE WASN'T A SPIN OFF CHARACTER AS SHE WAS IN SUPER MARIO LAND!!! YOU DELUSIONAL GENO AND WALUIGI FANS WILL NEVER GET YOUR CHARACTERS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Paraspikey]

Then what about Star Fox Grand Prix? A game that literally never existed yet a ton of leakers had heard about?

The game wasn't leakbait.
According to Imran, real people saw the prototype of the game and it's development, it was likely a concept Retro was working on to see if it can become a real game, some people saw it and spread the word about it, the game ended up being rejected and it kinda went on from there.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Troll/detractor: NO SHE WASN'T A SPIN OFF CHARACTER AS SHE WAS IN SUPER MARIO LAND!!! YOU DELUSIONAL GENO AND WALUIGI FANS WILL NEVER GET YOUR CHARACTERS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey, we’re all victims of the same speculation scene. No need to divide and conquer to paint yourself as the sole victim.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Hey, we’re all victims of the same speculation scene. No need to divide and conquer to paint yourself as the sole victim.

You know I was just joking.

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

You know I was just joking.

You forgot the coveted. "xD - /s - j/k - lol - "

Rookie mistake.