Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

I mean, if you’re looking at base game confirmations, the opposite would be true. Everything that Verge said was word of god when it came to Smash, and anyone who hoped otherwise specifically took a hit culminating with the Grinch. From E3 to November, the only surprises were the Echoes and King K Rool. The rest were all Verge’s major picks. Piranha Plant was the first genuine surprise we’d heard in a while (though supposedly he knew that one too? I stopped caring so much at that point whether he knew Piranha Plant or not).

So while I don’t agree with anyone stating anyone is confirmed, I can’t necessarily blame them completely when base game was a lot of people pushing back against insiders only to be burned. That’s still a fresh memory, and while you can pull the whole DLC is different to be fair and additional things, the reality of how much people got burned (or alternatively validated in believing in Verge and leakers) means that I doubt we’ll see such a mindset go away any time soon.

Oof, it seems someone forgot about Verge's credibility being blown away in the most recent direct.

"But it's not Smash related!" Then you also forgot that Verge said the SE rep would be revealed first, and...Joker. Enough said, and it seems you haven't learned from previous speculation either.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Oof, it seems someone forgot about Verge's credibility being blown away in the most recent direct.

"But it's not Smash related!" Then you also forgot that Verge said the SE rep would be revealed first, and...Joker. Enough said, and it seems you haven't learned from previous speculation either.

I also think the issue was that people started reading Verge's words like they were gospel, just as EricTheGamerman pointed out. That ain't good because then people weren't factoring in the possibility of him being wrong. And he's shown he's capable of being wrong. An amazing track record does not always mean 100% accuracy. People may have been burned in the end, but at least they kept the fun in Smash speculation by fighting for their favorite characters till the very end.

 

[Deleted member]

I also think the issue was that people started reading Verge's words like they were gospel, just as EricTheGamerman pointed out. That ain't good because then people weren't factoring in the possibility of him being wrong. And he's shown he's capable of being wrong. An amazing track record does not always mean 100% accuracy. People may have been burned in the end, but at least they kept the fun in Smash speculation by fighting for their favorite characters till the very end.

I wish people kept this in mind before acting as something is definite...when it isn't, lol.

No matter whether a leaker says something or certain evidence points to a certain character, anything can happen, like you said.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I wish people kept this in mind before acting as something is definite...when it isn't, lol.

No matter whether a leaker says something or certain evidence points to a certain character, anything can happen, like you said.

The Gematsu leak from Smash 4 is another perfect example of a leak that everyone thought was gospel getting its credibility ruined. Chorus Kids and Tower of Smash didn't end up in the game, but hey, Tower of Smash was certainly a more creative idea than Smash Tour.

 

[Mastadoom88]

Speaking solely about wants, I'd like:

Geno, Porky, Banjo, Terra (FF6), Marina (Mischief Makers), Bomber Man, something representing Snow Board Kids cause my childhood lol

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yep, that's true. Even the Gematsu leaker back in Smash 4 got stuff wrong or had outdated information as he said we were getting , , , , , , , , Chrom, and the Chorus Kids. He missed the last two, but wasn't far off as both Chrom and the Chorus Kids were planned, but cut from development.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, at this point, I say we just... stop thinking about leakers and what they're saying. Take everything with a grain of salt and make your own conclusions. The leaking stuff is just making a bunch of stress and vitriol, and it really shouldn't be.

Let's just talk about those bits of Geno's personality I wish they'd expanded on. That moment before Mario saves him from Bowyer, it looked like he was feeling rather vulnerable, ducking his head in his hands and looking like he was going to give up. For someone as determined as he is, that's a pretty big deal, which makes me wonder why he, as strong as he is, buckled at that point. Maybe he isn't quite as confident as he gives off. Along with that, the scene in Smithy's Factory wherein he seems so somber about having to part with his friends just... stings. It's clear that he loves and is attached to his duties, putting them as a priority, but he seems to really love this planet and these friends he's made, as well. It's a battle of doing the selfless thing for everyone and doing the selfish thing, staying or otherwise visiting his friends when he could be protecting his home.

Geno goes with the selfless choice. It was probably really hard for him. I mean, I can't imagine life is all that thrilling up there, even if we take Star Haven into account.

Just... gaaaaah, there are so many things I wish they could have explored with him, subtle things that really could have gone places. Given Paper Mario was originally SMRPG2, they probably had more plans for Geno than we know about, too. It was probably all building up to a sequel where his personality would be greater explored, and he'd have more of an arc like Mallow. Alas, it never came to be...

... which is why I get to sink my claws into it and do it myself, if I can get off my arse and draw the Things™ I want to draw...

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Marina (Mischief Makers)

''SHAKE!!! SHAKE!!!''

 

[Tetrin]

I do get really tired of being railroaded into talking about Erdrick or whatever the current Square Enix flavor of the month is (unless it's Neku who's my baby). How boring it must be to only want who is currently seen as likely. The same points get spat out ad nauseam and nothing gets proven.

Oh yeah Neku's my baby too, don't forget to post in the Neku support thread if you haven't already.

Also guys, quick question: how trusting are you of leaks?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Honestly, at this point, I say we just... stop thinking about leakers and what they're saying. Take everything with a grain of salt and make your own conclusions. The leaking stuff is just making a bunch of stress and vitriol, and it really shouldn't be

You're right, I've said my piece and gave my opinions, I'm done now. I'm gonna stay out of the Geno thread for a little bit and just let everything return to normal.

(I will never stop my Conker nonsense, yes I think it's funny. Hey look at me I'm so funny!)

 

[EarlTamm]

Oh yeah Neku's my baby too, don't forget to post in the Neku support thread if you haven't already.

Also guys, quick question: how trusting are you of leaks?

I will consider them, but I will not thoroughly believe them until they have gotten a good amount correct.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You're right, I've said my piece and gave my opinions, I'm done now. I'm gonna stay out of the Geno thread for a little bit and just let everything return to normal.

(I will never stop my Conker nonsense, yes I think it's funny. Hey look at me I'm so funny!)

Which Conker game is that gif from? I've never seen it before.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Which Conker game is that gif from? I've never seen it before.

I'm pretty sure it might be from a commercial, I dunno I found it on Google

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm pretty sure it might be from a commercial, I dunno I found it on Google

I'll try to do a Google mirror search on it to find out.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah Neku's my baby too, don't forget to post in the Neku support thread if you haven't already.

Also guys, quick question: how trusting are you of leaks?

I don't trust leakers at all anymore, with the exception of Polar and Fatman (but even then, they are insiders, not leakers like Verge, Hitagi, and xenother).

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'll try to do a Google mirror search on it to find out.

I did, and apparently it's only displayed on a single website: gyfcat.com. No further information is provided there, it's just an image site

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think speculating about our predictions is a lot more fun than speculating about leaks.

 

[Deleted member]

I think speculating about our predictions is a lot more fun than speculating about leaks.

Lol it really is. You wouldn't get judged by people by your predictions

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Lol it really is. You wouldn't get judged by people by your predictions

I remember back in Smash 4, I was like one of the very few people that predicted Dark Pit before the ESRB leak dropped. I knew he was coming because of him being at the end of Palutena's reveal trailer.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember back in Smash 4, I was like one of the very few people that predicted Dark Pit before the ESRB leak dropped. I knew he was coming because of him being at the end of Palutena's reveal trailer.

Now that you bring it up, I remember MyBrokenLuigiAmiibo told us about a Dark Pit fan who got so much **** on GameFaqs before the ESRB leak.

**** GameFaqs.

 

[coolcat12347]

If we’re sharing wishful thinking newcomers-




Unite up for a smash!


(Yes I still want Wonder Red)

 

[xpnc]

If the rumours of two of the DLC characters being old fan favourites is true, this would pretty much be my ideal DLC roster:

Fan favourites:

Geno
Geno is by far the most enduring character in all of Smash speculation who remains unplayable. Dethroning Ridley and K. Rool, Geno sits as the quintessential boomer pick in a sea of characters that I hardly recognize or have no desire to play as.

Banjo-Kazooie
In a just timeline, Banjo would have been a series mainstay since Melee. We were robbed by corporate nonsense and we're at a point now where such horrendous acts of injustice can finally be somewhat rectified.

Shill picks:

Joker
Joker is already in the game. I don't care about him but he doesn't offend me as much as other potential options.

Edelgard
Edelgard is cute as hell and has an axe.

Yeah, there are a lot of Fire Emblem characters but she's pretty much the best shill pick we could possibly get for the series. Let's examine the pros and cons:

Pros:

• Cute girl
• Axe

Cons:

• Anime
• Fire Emblem

Putting her at a stable 0, achieving a balanced homeostasis other Fire Emblem characters could only dream of.

Sylux
He's a cool robot looking dude and there's nothing wrong with more Metroid characters. Nintendo seems to want to finally do right by Metroid, to the extent that they're starting over MP4's development to make sure it's above our expectations. If Nintendo has to shill for something, I'd much prefer him to another Animal Crossing or Splatoon character

 

[bomamba]

There ya go! Let's start talking about characters we want, not what's popular. It don't matter if your favorite character isn't popular, talking about who you want is what makes Smash speculation so much fun and unpredictable. If you're going head first with the mindset "these characters are the most likely" you're just sucking all the fun out of the experience for yourself. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I know! I gotta BELIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE

 

[MissingGlitch]

I love how it's universally agreeded that the two fan favorites should be Banjo and Geno.

 

[xpnc]

I love how it's universally agreeded that the two fan favorites should be Banjo and Geno.

Considering the Assist Trophy massacre we're pretty much tapped for other options

 

[osby]

I remember back in Smash 4, I was like one of the very few people that predicted Dark Pit before the ESRB leak dropped. I knew he was coming because of him being at the end of Palutena's reveal trailer.

I thought it was obvious but then I learned nobody got it. That was weird.

 

[GillyGrime]

The Grinch leak being fake has made the Smash community so cynical. People seem certain that a Fire Emblem and Pokemon gen 8 rep are a given and that fan favourites are unlikely. So many 'safe' predictions. Ridley seemed unlikely until it happened.

I legit think Geno is more likely than Edelgard.

 

[HolyKnight]

Considering the Assist Trophy massacre we're pretty much tapped for other options

even still, one of those was an echo fighter at best, and the other isnt a huge fan favorite. since they RUINED golden sun with dark dawn.

 

[Ovaltine]

I thought it was obvious but then I learned nobody got it. That was weird.

Yeah, I was super sure after that trailer that Pittoo was a lock. That's odd to me that no one else really thought so. I would have been blown away if he hadn't made it.

Also... sorry, but he's really underrated. I love Pit, but I change between him and Pittoo oftentimes. I know a lot of people were ragging on him, but I love Dark Pit, especially after Uprising. He took me aback because I actually thought I'd hate his guts. It's kinda funny to think about.

 

[xpnc]

even still, one of those was an echo fighter at best, and the other isnt a huge fan favorite. since they RUINED golden sun with dark dawn.

Isaac was topping opinion polls for a long time. He was a clear favourite in the west.

 

[3DSNinja]

My predictions:
Joker (duh)
Sora or Geno( I really dunna. Both are very likely, but honestly I think Sora is more likely by a bit)
Banjo-Kazooie ( As the big E3 reveal of course)
Bandana Waddle Dee (As the only first party rep, it makes sense)
Hollow Knight or Tails (Like Sora and geno, I duna)

 

[osby]

Yeah, I was super sure after that trailer that Pittoo was a lock. That's odd to me that no one else really thought so. I would have been blown away if he hadn't made it.

Also... sorry, but he's really underrated. I love Pit, but I change between him and Pittoo oftentimes. I know a lot of people were ragging on him, but I love Dark Pit, especially after Uprising. He took me aback because I actually thought I'd hate his guts. It's kinda funny to think about.

I actually completely agree. Dark Pit has a great characterization and a very interesting take on dark clone archetype, imo. Definitely one of my favorite Smash 4 newcomers.

 

[MissingGlitch]

The Grinch leak being fake has made the Smash community so cynical. People seem certain that a Fire Emblem and Pokemon gen 8 rep are a given and that fan favourites are unlikely. So many 'safe' predictions. Ridley seemed unlikely until it happened.

I legit think Geno is more likely than Edelgard.

None of us want to be hurt again. Lol

 

[GenoFlash]

If we ever get a return to SMRPG I've always wanted an expansion on Geno's personality. The detractors are right that he really doesn't have much personality and at the end of the game he just abruptly leaves now that his task is over.

So I imagine stuff like Geno being a fish out of water to the mortal realm and ultimately growing to care for his companions, ending with him choosing to stay in the Mushroom Kingdom with Gaz.

 

[GillyGrime]

None of us want to be hurt again. Lol

Oh I get it, I believed the Grinch leak was real and it stung to see the truth. But that's more a lesson about seeing things as "locks" which this community does way too easily and often, than it is to have confidence in a character's chances beyond "promotional picks".

 

[Ovaltine]

I actually completely agree. Dark Pit has a great characterization and a very interesting take on dark clone archetype, imo. Definitely one of my favorite Smash 4 newcomers.

"I'm... I'm not alone," I realize as I shed a single tear.

If we ever get a return to SMRPG I've always wanted an expansion on Geno's personality. The detractors are right that he really doesn't have much personality and at the end of the game he just abruptly leaves now that his task is over.

So I imagine stuff like Geno being a fish out of water to the mortal realm and ultimately growing to care for his companions, ending with him choosing to stay in the Mushroom Kingdom with Gaz.

Yeah, I mean, I believe that he has personality, but it's so subtle and you have to dig for it. It leaves open so, so much potential that was never tapped into, which is especially frustrating. He's shown vulnerability, sadness, enthusiasm, determination, wild and angry determination (just try to leave Star Hill without that star piece), kindness, sweetness, and a bit of dorkiness. The components are there, but they aren't utilized the way they should have been.

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm going to make a list on why I think Erdrick is the most likely candidate out of all of the seven characters on the SE list. You're free to dissect it and do whatever you want, but I'm tired of debating Erdrick in the Geno thread when the clear consensus is "Geno is better than Erdrick and I'd rather have Geno." Nothing wrong with that inherently, but it's not something that I can really debate against. So without further ado, here's why I think Erdrick is the one:

• Previous DLC pattern. If we're looking back on the DLC 3rd party newcomers, only one of them didn't have an extended history with Nintendo dating back to NES and SNES days, and that's Bayonetta who is considered the Smash 4 poll winner. Final Fantasy was a staple NES and SNES RPG series, Street Fighter 2 was a big SNES hit (and is the inspiration for Ryu's Smash moveset), and Joker comes from Persona, which is a spinoff series of the Shin Megami Tensei series. SMT started on Super Famicom and is clearly alive and kicking today so Joker fits the criteria. He technically has a history with Nintendo, and SMT's most recent entries are on Nintendo systems. SMT 4 is on 3DS and SMT 5 is supposedly for the Switch. Since Persona is just more popular nowadays, it's going to be represented over a mainline SMT game. Dragon Quest would fulfill this criteria because of it's introduction in the NES and it's legacy since then. Couple how Nintendo continuously tries to advertise a DQ game on their systems when they can, it's clear the history with DQ and Nintendo is fairly large and it dates back to a time long forgotten. Not to say Geno or Sora or even Crono don't have histories with Nintendo, but they're not as long or they're practically not being touched again.
• Leakers. I know this is a divisive subject in this thread, but the majority opinion for insiders have pretty much agreed it's Erdrick or at least looking to be Erdrick. Tansut, a dude who guessed Cloud and denounced the Grinch leak, is saying Erdrick and has been hinting at a SE rep before Erdrick become a hot topic. It seems he has reliable connections to SE and we can cautiously accept it. Vergeben's history at guessing what Smash newcomer will be in virtually untouched as of now. While a lot of his sources ****ed him over on other subjects, Smash characters are the one subject he hasn't faltered in, and that's really the biggest thing to look out for when we are discussing newcomers. Plus he does have more than one source so he's not dead yet. If he says a character is definitely in during the 3.0.0 wait, we can expect it. Currently he is backing Erdrick. Those are the two big leakers in my eyes, but the general acceptance that Dragon Quest is in isn't something to take for granted when a lot of people don't even care about it in the west. (Something constantly repeated in this thread.) Leakbait is a possibility, but I think an honest unleakable situation is either Joker or K. Rool, who kept themselves hidden throughout a lot of leaker speculation.
• General marketing for Dragon Quest. On its own, it might not mean much, but a consistent push for Dragon Quest on Nintendo consoles is telling that the series is at least on Nintendo's minds, especially in a business aspect. If they're still working together, it's not hard to see that Erdrick is possible. Plus actually gaining access to the orchestra soundtrack for DQ11, which is exclusive to the Switch release, means Nintendo can get DQ music into Smash no problem.
• Iconic (at least in Japan). There are literal displays dedicated to Dragon Quest in Japan. Supposedly, the series is so popular that people will skip school and mug you for the game. A lot of developers at Nintendo have fond memories with Dragon Quest. It is the grand daddy of JRPGs and working with the series, while not having worldwide appeal, is certainly without a doubt legendary. The worldwide appeal thing is not really a rule to begin with.
• Brave. Yuusha, DQ3's Japanese hero's title, literally translates to Brave. Stats were an initial concern, but those can certainly change. Joker had a height stat of 15, which is Luigi's height, and Joker is certainly not the height of someone who is 15 from what we saw of his model. The stats can change, making Brave more likely to just be Erdrick. Given how the codenames were removed from the game, it seems we were never meant to see these. Brave could legit just be Yuusha.
• There's probably more I can say but it's getting late and I'm hoping you see my point by now.

So yeah. The evidence isn't conclusive, but there's a lot to say about DQ being in Smash Bros. I could explain further in-depth, but it's a pointless endeavor at this point. While I want Geno in Smash, the circumstances surrounding him are nowhere near as powerful as DQ or even Kingdom Hearts or FF7. He was a character from one game and was only kept alive by a fanbase who's results are relatively small in the grand scheme. I mean King K Rool and Ridley got into Smash because of the fans for their series, but Nintendo is pushed for DKC and Metroid for them to be relevant again. If Nintendo made plans for Geno and Super Mario RPG in general, I could see them choosing him, but I'm tired. I've been vouching for him for about six months and recent turns of events have made me see possibilities in a different light. I would love him to be in Smash, but it's just so unlikely no matter what theory I see pulled from the limited information we have.

I could be wrong and that's why I have that 1% in my inference over his chances instead of 0%. If I am wrong, I'll be cheering alongside y'all. I support both so I'm at a point where I'm bashing my head against a wall to achieve nothing for me. I'll love both getting in despite having a preference over the other. Until this is all settled, I'll just meme.


Support doesn't mean throw **** at the wall and pretend it doesn't smell. You can still want a character in Smash and admit he isn't likely this time around. Look at virtually any small-time character thread that has not broke over ten pages. Doesn't stop people from wanting the character, but they can sure stop expecting him after a certain point.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1097353652996579329

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Oof, it seems someone forgot about Verge's credibility being blown away in the most recent direct.

"But it's not Smash related!" Then you also forgot that Verge said the SE rep would be revealed first, and...Joker. Enough said, and it seems you haven't learned from previous speculation either.

That was kind of my whole point. Verge had been such a definite in the community, as had leakers with the ability to crush people’s dreams all around that a large portion of people took those name drops as confirmations. That was me just putting in my two cents as to why people had been like that, and also that very specifically, base game had given lots of reason for people to take those leakers at their word as confirmations.

It was a big problem during the pre-release era that I pushed back against, but again, I don’t blame anybody for having taken that stance or even continuing to take that stance when so much went how the predicted at the time.

And yes, Verge has very much taken a hit, but people aren’t going to stop paying attention to him. While Verge completely ****ing missed the Direct itself, his Smash legacy still has more hits than misses and he’s staked it all on Erdrick. His ability to remain credible will hinge on Erdrick for the foreseeable future. If he’s wrong there, then we can truly move to dismiss him, but for the time being I do think it’s worth continuing to keep an eye on him with again, a very healthy dose of skepticism.

Not that Verge was my point, my point has been that base game has certainly led to people being a lot more willing to listen to leakers. And Verge being wrong doesn’t throw Erdrick our quite yet, meaning that people are still going to latch on to him for the foreseeable future.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, how do you guys approach character speculation? Do you just focus on supporting one or two character's or are you very liberal with who you support?

 

[Ovaltine]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1097353652996579329

Aw, c'mon, there's no need to be that sour. Bolderousness even defends Geno and wants him as well as Erdrick. Just because someone is pessimistic on his chances and is giving an explanation why, it doesn't mean he's trying to attack anyone. We have to be realistic, and realistically, Erdrick is not off of the table. How likely he is or not is the more subjective and debatable part.

That being said, discussing Erdrick here is just making people upset. We should just clear the table and examine Geno's chances separate from him, especially since Fatman has relayed that Erdrick may have been base-game planned and is in an entirely different ball park from Geno. The idea of getting two new SE reps, even if one is not in the Fighter's Pass, is not so outrageous anymore.