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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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TerminalMontage

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Real people, huh? Aren't these the same people that come to work with an IV drip because they can't seem to hand it off to anyone else? While I agree with you that the dev team could easily get burned out on the same game, aren't you making just as much an assumption about their work ethic as I am about their desire to make a profit? Not to mention they could easily just rotate in fresh programmers as they go. Smash is one of Nintendo's greatest cash cows. I have a hard time believing they won't milk this puppy for all it's worth, regardless of who they'll use to do it.
Nintendo also uses good discernment. If they were going to milk their franchises I'd expect to see more BotW, MK8 and Odyssey DLCs. As much as I'd like to see all 30 of the unused slots in the Smash data used up, Nintendo usually stops at a certain point.

BUT THEN AGAIN, ALL THE EMPTY SLOTS IN SMASH 4 WERE EVENTUALLY FILLED (right?) SO WHO KNOWS.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
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Nintendo also uses good discernment. If they were going to milk their franchises I'd expect to see more BotW, MK8 and Odyssey DLCs. As much as I'd like to see all 30 of the unused slots in the Smash data used up, Nintendo usually stops at a certain point.

BUT THEN AGAIN, ALL THE EMPTY SLOTS IN SMASH 4 WERE EVENTUALLY FILLED (right?) SO WHO KNOWS.
Though the 30 slots as noted also apply to usage of unique alternate costumes(gender alts, ones like the Koopalings or even Builder Mario apply), so a lot would still be possible to use.

Plus, there's a huge difference between less than 10 slots and a total of 30. Also, PP took two costume slots.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
PLEASE tell me this means we're done listening to leakers and speculating about every single word they say.

I just want E3 to get here already and put all of our concerns to bed.
That's never going to happen no matter how many "leakers" come and go. It will always be a part of Smash speculation because it's a fundamental part of discussing pre-release speculation at this point and has been for years. I think most of us have been around long enough to notice that in the extended absence of official information, we will discuss basically anything, not matter how insignificant or irrational. And E3 isn't the end of anything but speculation for the next character (Characters ?). Any character that isn't a Square Enix character specifically just puts all of the Square-Enix characters back into the same holding pattern, just without the Brave justifications (Which has always been the weakest link to... well anything actually relevant). The "concerns" only get put to bed when DLC is absolutely finished.

Sure, maybe people will be more open to additional choices if Dragon Quest doesn't happen or we have a completely unexpected newcomer, but we as a community aren't just going to stop dealing with leakers whole sale, and even then, there's still at least three more characters that could be the specific DLC. Erdrick or Steve, the two characters with perhaps the worst reputations around hear can still show up later and cause plenty of issues for speculation. Or they might not, but we're a long way off from the end and this wild ride won't stop until then.

Real people, huh? Aren't these the same people that come to work with an IV drip because they can't seem to hand it off to anyone else? While I agree with you that the dev team could easily get burned out on the same game, aren't you making just as much an assumption about their work ethic as I am about their desire to make a profit? Not to mention they could easily just rotate in fresh programmers as they go. Smash is one of Nintendo's greatest cash cows. I have a hard time believing they won't milk this puppy for all it's worth, regardless of who they'll use to do it.
I mean, Smash will live on as an evergreen regardless of how much DLC they produce for the game. It's just that big of a title and I think we can't really discount that fact. That's the real money Nintendo wants, new Switches and new copies of Smash sold throughout the console's life span like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 2, and Super Mario Odyssey. The DLC is just extra profit on top of that, and I have my doubts about Nintendo's willingness to move on from Sakurai in the same DLC cycle. For as much as has been said of Japanese respect for an individual's work, I sincerely doubt they would produce anything without him and he's likely the biggest limiting factor in regards to future DLC. He's the Smash guy, and you're not just going to replace him over night on the title he personally developed unless he approves and appoints some sort of official successor. Again, by the end of the Fighter's Pass, he will have been working exclusively on Smash Bros for 8 straight years. And for all intensive purposes, Ultimate already serves as the culmination of all of that work. He has a product to be plenty proud of to leave behind and sell well for Nintendo while he takes an extended break from the franchise or focuses on other projects.

I think we will get DLC for as long as Sakurai decides he's willing to produce the content. But the 15 slots always seemed much more like a decision to future proof decision rather than some sort of definitive plan on the DLC for Ultimate. I think it's pretty unreasonable to say we will definitively get more DLC. I think it's possible we will, but I also think it's equally possible (if not even more so) that the Fighter's Pass will mark the end of new content for Smash Ultimate given what we've seen from other Nintendo games and Sakurai. No other game that has launched with the same amount of content that Ultimate did already, and the bigger titles from Nintendo actually see less DLC than less fully formed titles like Splatoon 2, ARMS, and Kirby Star Allies.

It will just depend on Sakurai honestly and I wouldn't be so quick to jump on a definitive future with DLC beyond what we know.
 

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
I mean, Smash will live on as an evergreen regardless of how much DLC they produce for the game. It's just that big of a title and I think we can't really discount that fact. That's the real money Nintendo wants, new Switches and new copies of Smash sold throughout the console's life span like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 2, and Super Mario Odyssey. The DLC is just extra profit on top of that, and I have my doubts about Nintendo's willingness to move on from Sakurai in the same DLC cycle. For as much as has been said of Japanese respect for an individual's work, I sincerely doubt they would produce anything without him and he's likely the biggest limiting factor in regards to future DLC. He's the Smash guy, and you're not just going to replace him over night on the title he personally developed unless he approves and appoints some sort of official successor. Again, by the end of the Fighter's Pass, he will have been working exclusively on Smash Bros for 8 straight years. And for all intensive purposes, Ultimate already serves as the culmination of all of that work. He has a product to be plenty proud of to leave behind and sell well for Nintendo while he takes an extended break from the franchise or focuses on other projects.

I think we will get DLC for as long as Sakurai decides he's willing to produce the content. But the 15 slots always seemed much more like a decision to future proof decision rather than some sort of definitive plan on the DLC for Ultimate. I think it's pretty unreasonable to say we will definitively get more DLC. I think it's possible we will, but I also think it's equally possible (if not even more so) that the Fighter's Pass will mark the end of new content for Smash Ultimate given what we've seen from other Nintendo games and Sakurai. No other game that has launched with the same amount of content that Ultimate did already, and the bigger titles from Nintendo actually see less DLC than less fully formed titles like Splatoon 2, ARMS, and Kirby Star Allies.

It will just depend on Sakurai honestly and I wouldn't be so quick to jump on a definitive future with DLC beyond what we know.
The future lifespan of smash bros is kind of a unique case unto itself. There's only so much you can do to improve the graphics and mechanics with such a franchise without turning it into something significantly different. That said, I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to, or even want to, sell another iteration of the game on the switch. Why? Think of what they could even use for a selling point. More characters? Sakurai himself admitted the difficulty of such a full roster. We'd be lucky if the next game were able to match the sheer quantity of characters assuming we don't lose a big part of the roster in exchange for a bunch of new ones. And even if by some miracle we got EVERY SINGLE EXISTING CHARACTER plus a bunch of new ones, why couldn't they have just made the new ones DLC? The only way to make the new game stand apart would be the addition of some seriously awesome modes or new mechanics, but judging by ultimate, I seriously doubt we can have our cake and eat it too with a roster that huge AND have room for all those extras. The software/hardware has limits, not to mention the health of the devs lol.

Nintendo tends to release one smash per console for this reason. You need some sort of significant addition to incentivize players to upgrade. That said, Nintendo also wants to milk the switch's life for as long as they can, thus keeping Ultimate relevant for as long as they can kills two birds with one stone. How do you keep Ultimate relevant? DLC, baby. We can rationalize all we want about what Nintendo will end up doing, but at the end of the day, smash DLC=easy money, plain and simple. I don't see the 15 slots as unreasonable. Lofty, perhaps, but not unreasonable. Obviously, the prospect of more DLC packs isn't definitive, but it would make a lot of sense. I also wouldn't assume that Sakurai will be the end all of Smash bros. He's hella critical, that's for sure, but if he keeled over tomorrow, do you honestly think Nintendo would just pack it up? You think they'd just sit on a billion dollar franchise because its George Lucas checked out? Hell nah. Even if they couldn't match his skills, they'd still try.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
The future lifespan of smash bros is kind of a unique case unto itself. There's only so much you can do to improve the graphics and mechanics with such a franchise without turning it into something significantly different. That said, I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to, or even want to, sell another iteration of the game on the switch. Why? Think of what they could even use for a selling point. More characters? Sakurai himself admitted the difficulty of such a full roster. We'd be lucky if the next game were able to match the sheer quantity of characters assuming we don't lose a big part of the roster in exchange for a bunch of new ones. And even if by some miracle we got EVERY SINGLE EXISTING CHARACTER plus a bunch of new ones, why couldn't they have just made the new ones DLC? The only way to make the new game stand apart would be the addition of some seriously awesome modes or new mechanics, but judging by ultimate, I seriously doubt we can have our cake and eat it too with a roster that huge AND have room for all those extras. The software/hardware has limits, not to mention the health of the devs lol.

Nintendo tends to release one smash per console for this reason. You need some sort of significant addition to incentivize players to upgrade. That said, Nintendo also wants to milk the switch's life for as long as they can, thus keeping Ultimate relevant for as long as they can kills two birds with one stone. How do you keep Ultimate relevant? DLC, baby. We can rationalize all we want about what Nintendo will end up doing, but at the end of the day, smash DLC=easy money, plain and simple. I don't see the 15 slots as unreasonable. Lofty, perhaps, but not unreasonable. Obviously, the prospect of more DLC packs isn't definitive, but it would make a lot of sense. I also wouldn't assume that Sakurai will be the end all of Smash bros. He's hella critical, that's for sure, but if he keeled over tomorrow, do you honestly think Nintendo would just pack it up? You think they'd just sit on a billion dollar franchise because its George Lucas checked out? Hell nah. Even if they couldn't match his skills, they'd still try.
Another Smash for Switch isn't impossible, especially if it has as long a lifespan as Nintendo wants it to. All characters could theoretically return if the team was given more than 3 ****ing years to develop the game. Not that I think that should happen, but it's not something that can't happen.

Just imagine, for a moment, a Smash game given the dev time of a title like Red Dead Redemption II. That would be something.
 

Firox

Smash Master
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Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
Another Smash for Switch isn't impossible, especially if it has as long a lifespan as Nintendo wants it to. All characters could theoretically return if the team was given more than 3 ****ing years to develop the game. Not that I think that should happen, but it's not something that can't happen.

Just imagine, for a moment, a Smash game given the dev time of a title like Red Dead Redemption II. That would be something.
True, but how long do you think the Switch's lifespan will last? Say 10 years? Smash Ult DLC already has them going into what? Year 3 or 4 of the switch's life? If they got started on the next one in about 2 or 3 years they could have something truly amazing in time for the next generation.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
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Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,460
True, but how long do you think the Switch's lifespan will last? Say 10 years? Smash Ult DLC already has them going into what? Year 3 or 4 of the switch's life? If they got started on the next one in about 2 or 3 years they could have something truly amazing in time for the next generation.
You're saying it like we don't already have a truly amazing game in our hands.
 

Ze Diglett

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The future lifespan of smash bros is kind of a unique case unto itself. There's only so much you can do to improve the graphics and mechanics with such a franchise without turning it into something significantly different. That said, I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to, or even want to, sell another iteration of the game on the switch. Why? Think of what they could even use for a selling point. More characters? Sakurai himself admitted the difficulty of such a full roster. We'd be lucky if the next game were able to match the sheer quantity of characters assuming we don't lose a big part of the roster in exchange for a bunch of new ones. And even if by some miracle we got EVERY SINGLE EXISTING CHARACTER plus a bunch of new ones, why couldn't they have just made the new ones DLC? The only way to make the new game stand apart would be the addition of some seriously awesome modes or new mechanics, but judging by ultimate, I seriously doubt we can have our cake and eat it too with a roster that huge AND have room for all those extras. The software/hardware has limits, not to mention the health of the devs lol.

Nintendo tends to release one smash per console for this reason. You need some sort of significant addition to incentivize players to upgrade. That said, Nintendo also wants to milk the switch's life for as long as they can, thus keeping Ultimate relevant for as long as they can kills two birds with one stone. How do you keep Ultimate relevant? DLC, baby. We can rationalize all we want about what Nintendo will end up doing, but at the end of the day, smash DLC=easy money, plain and simple. I don't see the 15 slots as unreasonable. Lofty, perhaps, but not unreasonable. Obviously, the prospect of more DLC packs isn't definitive, but it would make a lot of sense. I also wouldn't assume that Sakurai will be the end all of Smash bros. He's hella critical, that's for sure, but if he keeled over tomorrow, do you honestly think Nintendo would just pack it up? You think they'd just sit on a billion dollar franchise because its George Lucas checked out? Hell nah. Even if they couldn't match his skills, they'd still try.
I don't doubt that Nintendo will just get someone else to direct future Smash titles if Sakurai calls it quits, but within the same game? That, I really don't see happening. If Sakurai decides the Fighter Pass is enough as far as DLC, I don't think Nintendo can or will really do much about that.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Honestly, they shouldn't make another Smash for a good while.

It's clear how much hell Sakurai went through to even get Ultimate's base game complete. He's expressed himself how much easier DLC is on him, as well, and how he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate. Nintendo wants Ultimate to sell for a long time and to appeal to everyone, both new audiences and old fans. When people say they want Sakurai to take a huge break, too, I don't think they realize how implausible that is. Japanese work force culture is stringent, and Sakurai's hard-working demeanor is a product of it. Nintendo won't let him take a break, nor will he allow himself to. Trust me, I wish Sakurai could just take a step back, but it's ridiculously rough overseas. It's nothing like the West.

The best, happiest medium would be just to support Ultimate with DLC for a long time. Sakurai gets to take it easy as much as he's allowed and everyone gets more content for an already amazing game. It's win-win. Of course, Nintendo is daft as can be, so we don't know if they'll actually do that.
 

Firox

Smash Master
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Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
Honestly, they shouldn't make another Smash for a good while.

It's clear how much hell Sakurai went through to even get Ultimate's base game complete. He's expressed himself how much easier DLC is on him, as well, and how he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate. Nintendo wants Ultimate to sell for a long time and to appeal to everyone, both new audiences and old fans. When people say they want Sakurai to take a huge break, too, I don't think they realize how implausible that is. Japanese work force culture is stringent, and Sakurai's hard-working demeanor is a product of it. Nintendo won't let him take a break, nor will he allow himself to. Trust me, I wish Sakurai could just take a step back, but it's ridiculously rough overseas. It's nothing like the West.

The best, happiest medium would be just to support Ultimate with DLC for a long time. Sakurai gets to take it easy as much as he's allowed and everyone gets more content for an already amazing game. It's win-win. Of course, Nintendo is daft as can be, so we don't know if they'll actually do that.
THIS. The simplest, easiest, most bang-for-their-buck approach would be to just support ultimate with as much DLC as possible. It would be far less impact on the devs than making a whole new game and the profits would speak for themselves. For those of you that argue that Sakurai is the life-blood of the game, even more reason for them to nurture what they already have rather than begin work on something totally new. I theorize that Nintendo will make Ultimate THE smash game for as long as humanly possible, maybe even choosing to port it to future consoles with yet more DLC. Doing so would also unify the competitive scene which is only now beginning to step away from Melee and into the open arms of Ultimate. Either way, we'll just have to wait and see to know for sure.
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
The future lifespan of smash bros is kind of a unique case unto itself. There's only so much you can do to improve the graphics and mechanics with such a franchise without turning it into something significantly different. That said, I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to, or even want to, sell another iteration of the game on the switch. Why? Think of what they could even use for a selling point. More characters? Sakurai himself admitted the difficulty of such a full roster. We'd be lucky if the next game were able to match the sheer quantity of characters assuming we don't lose a big part of the roster in exchange for a bunch of new ones. And even if by some miracle we got EVERY SINGLE EXISTING CHARACTER plus a bunch of new ones, why couldn't they have just made the new ones DLC? The only way to make the new game stand apart would be the addition of some seriously awesome modes or new mechanics, but judging by ultimate, I seriously doubt we can have our cake and eat it too with a roster that huge AND have room for all those extras. The software/hardware has limits, not to mention the health of the devs lol.

Nintendo tends to release one smash per console for this reason. You need some sort of significant addition to incentivize players to upgrade. That said, Nintendo also wants to milk the switch's life for as long as they can, thus keeping Ultimate relevant for as long as they can kills two birds with one stone. How do you keep Ultimate relevant? DLC, baby. We can rationalize all we want about what Nintendo will end up doing, but at the end of the day, smash DLC=easy money, plain and simple. I don't see the 15 slots as unreasonable. Lofty, perhaps, but not unreasonable. Obviously, the prospect of more DLC packs isn't definitive, but it would make a lot of sense. I also wouldn't assume that Sakurai will be the end all of Smash bros. He's hella critical, that's for sure, but if he keeled over tomorrow, do you honestly think Nintendo would just pack it up? You think they'd just sit on a billion dollar franchise because its George Lucas checked out? Hell nah. Even if they couldn't match his skills, they'd still try.
To be clear, I certainly don't think Sakurai's exit from Smash will mean the end of Smash. I just completely doubt that they would replace him during the DLC cycle of the game he developed because he wields so much power and devoted so much passion to the project. Unless the new head of NOJ is a real piece of **** who will pull some Konami and Kojima The Phantom Pain era bull****, when Sakurai says he's done, he's done and so is Smash Ultimate.

We also need to remember characters aren't the only major content for this game and that things like Stage Builder and Video Editor are big free additions that make the game more viable for the future. There's a theoretically near endless number of stages that will be made for the game and people can use the Editor to make their own unique content for years to come. Content like that adds replay value by player creativity and thus adds longer legs to the game. Not to mention we may see additional modes like Home Run Contest come in future content updates. Such decisions help make the game a more enticing purchase to consumers for years to come while the Switch is still relevant.

Also, I don't think it's worth bringing up the question of where Smash goes from here as anything relevant to DLC. That's a question for the next Smash game and whatever that entails. There are a variety of interesting questions to pose for the future of Smash most certainly, but I suspect we will not break our patterns of one Smash game per console. Nintendo and other companies always talk a big game of how long they want their consoles to last, but the Switch is likely to see a successor within the next four years. The system already falls a generation behind current gen consoles like the PS4 and the Xbox One, when the successors to those consoles release, Nintendo's looking at an even more uphill battle for content, especially when so many developers have already made Switch titles. Yes the Switch will sale as long as it's successful and people are willing to invest in games for the console, but that will only become more difficult. If you go by a more conventional six year cycle of a console, Smash released a year and a half into the console's life cycle, and the first set of DLC with be completed by the end of the third year. Given that Nintendo has not particularly committed to the games as a service model yet (They have made some forays into that arena, but we're still a long way removed from your Sieges, Destiny's, and so on), I think that fits their operating status since only Splatoon 2 has had legs of even comparable length.

I'll continue to also push back on Ultimate needs DLC to be relevant forever. It's an evergeen sales title that has shown an absurd retention rate with Switch consumers. Selling 13 million copies in 4 months is nothing to scoff at, and while those sales will not be indicative of consistently amazing sales, it's safe to say Smash will likely follow the precedents set by the likes of Breath of the Wild, Splatoon, and Super Mario Odyssey and continue selling on name recognition alone. Sure, DLC can potentially increase sales and bring in more revenue, but there's also an economic advantage to not consistently developing DLC. If the game serves as an evergreen title that continues to sale on its own and also sales the initial Fighter's Pass, then they have a revenue source already. They don't need to invest in developing more content and devoting more resources to the project when they already have a cash flow. I'm not saying that's the only sensible decision, but it's definitely a sensible option. The Fighter's Pass will continue to create hype and I'm sure characters will always create additional buzz for the game. But, everything has a natural end point, and if Sakurai says he's done, Nintendo more than likely will respect his wishes since he's already created such a major cash flow for them anyway.

Again, all I'm really saying is that it depends on Sakurai. His decision making determines everything for Ultimate, and I think he's a much less clear individual to read in this specific situation.

Honestly, they shouldn't make another Smash for a good while.

It's clear how much hell Sakurai went through to even get Ultimate's base game complete. He's expressed himself how much easier DLC is on him, as well, and how he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate. Nintendo wants Ultimate to sell for a long time and to appeal to everyone, both new audiences and old fans. When people say they want Sakurai to take a huge break, too, I don't think they realize how implausible that is. Japanese work force culture is stringent, and Sakurai's hard-working demeanor is a product of it. Nintendo won't let him take a break, nor will he allow himself to. Trust me, I wish Sakurai could just take a step back, but it's ridiculously rough overseas. It's nothing like the West.

The best, happiest medium would be just to support Ultimate with DLC for a long time. Sakurai gets to take it easy as much as he's allowed and everyone gets more content for an already amazing game. It's win-win. Of course, Nintendo is daft as can be, so we don't know if they'll actually do that.
Japanese work culture is stringent and Sakurai applies himself to that, but he has mentioned taking short breaks before and he has tended to work on other projects in between big Smash releases. Ultimate is the first time since 64 and Melee that he has gone straight into another Smash game after completing the last one. It's difficult to read where he is in this situation, hence my comments above, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decides to finish his work on Smash Ultimate with the end of the Fighter's Pass and move on to other projects. He's a talented developer with lots of unique ideas, and he is likely to basically have a blank check when it comes to developing most of the ideas for Nintendo.

Ultimate already encompasses the culmination of his work on Smash. It will serve as an absolutely amazing and perfect note to end his current Smash status (or even entire career) on regardless of when he chooses to do that. It would have served as such without the Fighter's Pass, so I still consider us somewhat lucky that we're getting so much post-release content as is. And after a year a few months of additional support, that legacy will only be further cemented.

Sakurai may be the product of a grueling systems of work ethic and responsibility, but don't underestimate just how much power he wields in comparison to most other employees and workers in Japan. That power gives him several more options than your average employee or even employer, and probably several more that we're completely unaware of.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
537
Ultimate's DLC was planned even before the dev team know about it so I won't be surprised if DLC wave continue without Sakurai's will.
 
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Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Ultimate's DLC was planned even before the dev team know about it so I won't be surprised if DLC wave continue without Sakurai's will.
Really? That's interesting to hear you say that. May I ask for the source of this information? Thanks again! You're a huge help in learning about information for Ultimate and its fanbase in the East. :)
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
537
Really? That's interesting to hear you say that. May I ask for the source of this information? Thanks again! You're a huge help in learning about information for Ultimate and its fanbase in the East. :)
From his book. It said the DLC wasn't even a thing by the time his vol.546 of Famitsu column came out and was planned without the dev team knowing about it. So the DLC planning started after January 11th 2018.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
From his book. It said the DLC wasn't even a thing by the time his vol.546 of Famitsu column came out and was planned without the dev team knowing about it. So the DLC planning started after January 11th 2018.
Care to break that down in more detail than just saying it's from his book? I know you're able to read Japanese from other posts, so you're the idea person to analyze something like that for us. I just find it a little bit hard to believe that Sakurai had no impact when his love for Persona 5 has been cited specifically as something that got Joker into Smash in the first place from an Atlus employee.

What you're saying would imply that Sakurai had no input whatsoever in the process, and that would have far-reaching implications for the entire community. So if you could pull up the specific section you're referring to and walk us through it and the translation, that would be greatly appreciated (And if you don't want to do that, maybe punt off such an analysis to SourceGaming or someone else who knows Japanese well enough to dive into it).

I'm not calling you out super specifically or anything, but that's the sort of claim that needs to be heavily substantiated and dealt with.
 
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MattX20

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
6,325
Given the possibility that Erdrick can possibly be leakbait regarding the Square rep, it's possible a very popular pick like Sora could still happen. I know he got a TON of requests in Japan and the West.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Care to break that down in more detail than just saying it's from his book? I know you're able to read Japanese from other posts, so you're the idea person to analyze something like that for us. I just find it a little bit hard to believe that Sakurai had no impact when his love for Persona 5 has been cited specifically as something that got Joker into Smash in the first place from an Atlus employee.

What you're saying would imply that Sakurai had no input whatsoever in the process, and that would have far-reaching implications for the entire community. So if you could pull up the specific section you're referring to and walk us through it and the translation, that would be greatly appreciated (And if you don't want to do that, maybe punt off such an analysis to SourceGaming or someone else who knows Japanese well enough to dive into it).

I'm not calling you out super specifically or anything, but that's the sort of claim that needs to be heavily substantiated and dealt with.
It could also mean that Sakurai knew, but everyone else in the dev team didn't. That would make sense to me.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
So I finally did it and changed the avatar.

It feels a bit odd going with something different after roughly 10 years using my old one....

EDIT: ty SSguy.

Of course this might just be temporary, as I do want something a bit more original and not just taking someone else's. But you gave me the ok so until I find another I won't turn the offer down :p
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Care to break that down in more detail than just saying it's from his book? I know you're able to read Japanese from other posts, so you're the idea person to analyze something like that for us. I just find it a little bit hard to believe that Sakurai had no impact when his love for Persona 5 has been cited specifically as something that got Joker into Smash in the first place from an Atlus employee.

What you're saying would imply that Sakurai had no input whatsoever in the process, and that would have far-reaching implications for the entire community. So if you could pull up the specific section you're referring to and walk us through it and the translation, that would be greatly appreciated (And if you don't want to do that, maybe punt off such an analysis to SourceGaming or someone else who knows Japanese well enough to dive into it).

I'm not calling you out super specifically or anything, but that's the sort of claim that needs to be heavily substantiated and dealt with.
I understood 'the dev team' as 'everyone but Sakurai'. As in, he made the project plan and only told his team when it was finalized.
 

link2702

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Funny how the small things can make your day better. One of my videos got featured in a stylesx2 salt video...

Keeping things more on topic;

SO i've started a new file on smrpg.....which should I do this time? no armor attempt? or low level attempt?(lazy shell's allowed.)
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's sad it got cancelled, but the user was very open and not trying to sneak behind Nintendo or Square-Enix's backs, so that's something really nice to see.

I'm glad more people have respect for the companies and their IP's in these kind of cases. Even if it doesn't work out, it means Nintendo and SE are more likely to consider a sequel/remake or other uses of the IP. :)
 

link2702

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That's a pretty old post from the looks of it. I don't think it means much that Nintendo was polite with him about it when they shut it down. It is after all him trying to raise money using a Nintendo franchise. Even if he donated every last penny to nintendo with a letter telling them to please create a sequel, Nintendo was gonna shut that down soon as possible.

Also I feel he might have got himself in more trouble by revealing what they discussed...
 
D

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Funny how the small things can make your day better. One of my videos got featured in a stylesx2 salt video...

Keeping things more on topic;

SO i've started a new file on smrpg.....which should I do this time? no armor attempt? or low level attempt?(lazy shell's allowed.)
I like a low level attempt.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I understood 'the dev team' as 'everyone but Sakurai'. As in, he made the project plan and only told his team when it was finalized.
Whoops, misread that then. That would make sense given they weren't in production at the time of choosing the DLC and I suspect Sakurai functions with a similar process when developing the initial product plans for Smash games.

I just don't see Nintendo continuing on without Sakurai in Ultimate's DLC cycle. The way that they basically treat him as the only one capable of making Smash (Well, I guess that was Iwata more so) and the astounding amount of power and influence he wields seems just to hard to overcome during a DLC cycle when they could just end it. That just seems like the question to ask for a future Smash game where Sakurai isn't the head on the project.
 

Ze Diglett

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This actually interests me a lot. It indicates that not only does Nintendo still give enough of a **** about a game that hasn't had anything substantial done with it in decades (and, perhaps more tellingly, one they technically don't own) to go out of their way and immediately squash a fan project based off it, but they also seem to be at least somewhat interested in a followup to SMRPG themselves judging by them asking OP about their thoughts on an official SMRPG sequel. It especially interests me that the Nintendo rep's sentiment seems to imply that if there were ever noticeable demand for SMRPG2 (coughOperationStarfallcough), they'd probably make it happen. The post's not even that old, either; only about a year and a half by this point. Hmm...
 

Datboigeno

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Hypothetical but serious question: How much would it cost for a private citizen to buy the rights to SMRPG? Like I know franchises like Mario and Fortnite are worth billions, but something small and specific like SMRPG that only gets used now for ports and like the 2 spirits included in SSBU has to be worth at most like 10 million dollars, right? Also is that something someone could legally do? Like another very similar example is the cast of characters from Street Fighter EX. They are owned by Arika in a very similar way to how SE owns Geno. And they just now appeared in a new installment of Fighting Layer but before that were only marginally more used than Geno. So if someone wealthy enough wanted could they just buy the rights to those characters and then sell them to Capcom at a reduced price in order for them to be used in future Street Fighter games? What are the legal roadblocks to doing something like this for Geno or the rest of SMRPG for example? Basically if I was Jeff Bezos rich could I just buy the rights to SMRPG and then sell them to Nintendo for a dollar under the agreement that Geno gets in Smash?
 
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D

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Hypothetical but serious question: How much would it cost for a private citizen to buy the rights to SMRPG? Like I know franchises like Mario and Fortnite are worth billions, but something small and specific like SMRPG that only gets used now for ports and like the 2 spirits included in SSBU has to be worth at most like 10 million dollars, right? Also is that something someone could legally do? Like another very similar example is the cast of characters from Street Fighter EX. They are owned by Arika in a very similar way to how SE owns Geno. And they just now appeared in a new installment of Fighting Layer but before that were only marginally more used than Geno. So if someone wealthy enough wanted could they just buy the rights to those characters and then sell them to Capcom at a reduced price in order for them to be used in future Street Fighter games? What are the legal roadblocks to doing something like this for Geno or the rest of SMRPG for example?
You heard it from Geno himself folks

We need to cash in all our money to buy Geno, Mallow, and the SMRPG cast
 

GoodGrief741

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Hypothetical but serious question: How much would it cost for a private citizen to buy the rights to SMRPG? Like I know franchises like Mario and Fortnite are worth billions, but something small and specific like SMRPG that only gets used now for ports and like the 2 spirits included in SSBU has to be worth at most like 10 million dollars, right? Also is that something someone could legally do? Like another very similar example is the cast of characters from Street Fighter EX. They are owned by Arika in a very similar way to how SE owns Geno. And they just now appeared in a new installment of Fighting Layer but before that were only marginally more used than Geno. So if someone wealthy enough wanted could they just buy the rights to those characters and then sell them to Capcom at a reduced price in order for them to be used in future Street Fighter games? What are the legal roadblocks to doing something like this for Geno or the rest of SMRPG for example? Basically if I was Jeff Bezos rich could I just buy the rights to SMRPG and then sell them to Nintendo for a dollar under the agreement that Geno gets in Smash?
It would probably cost in the hundreds of dollars at least. But nobody would sell an individual IP. Square Enix sells the rights to SMRPG, they're creating a competitor who can make an RPG remake/sequel/port that will compete with their own games, and they're selling themselves out of the chance of doing so themselves if they find it profitable down the line.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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Care to break that down in more detail than just saying it's from his book? I know you're able to read Japanese from other posts, so you're the idea person to analyze something like that for us. I just find it a little bit hard to believe that Sakurai had no impact when his love for Persona 5 has been cited specifically as something that got Joker into Smash in the first place from an Atlus employee.

What you're saying would imply that Sakurai had no input whatsoever in the process, and that would have far-reaching implications for the entire community. So if you could pull up the specific section you're referring to and walk us through it and the translation, that would be greatly appreciated (And if you don't want to do that, maybe punt off such an analysis to SourceGaming or someone else who knows Japanese well enough to dive into it).

I'm not calling you out super specifically or anything, but that's the sort of claim that needs to be heavily substantiated and dealt with.
Didn't these already get translated? I think I saw some part of the book translated somewhere.
Anyway, here you go.

The review of column vol.546 2018.1.11
Sakurai: Recently there is a lot of products that are designed to release like deluxe version with all DLCs included from the start. I'm more of a guy to buy each of them though.
Interviewer: Me too. I buy each as well.
Sakurai: I think it's weird these kind of big titles having the same price as old days, I want to return them more at least.
Interviewer: Development takes huge amount of works. By the way, you wrote about the season pass...
Sakurai: I am sorry about that! At this time around, selling of season pass or even making of DLC weren't a thing. Nothing was decided. These things get planned where nothing to do with the developer's will so...
Interviews: Of course I'll buy it and wait!

The column was about DLC in general. These things take quite a time, it's a risky business more than people think, Sakurai not really fond of idea of season pass, etc.
 

Ovaltine

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Didn't these already get translated? I think I saw some part of the book translated somewhere.
Anyway, here you go.

The review of column vol.546 2018.1.11
Sakurai: Recently there is a lot of products that are designed to release like deluxe version with all DLCs included from the start. I'm more of a guy to buy each of them though.
Interviewer: Me too. I buy each as well.
Sakurai: I think it's weird these kind of big titles having the same price as old days, I want to return them more at least.
Interviewer: Development takes huge amount of works. By the way, you wrote about the season pass...
Sakurai: I am sorry about that! At this time around, selling of season pass or even making of DLC weren't a thing. Nothing was decided. These things get planned where nothing to do with the developer's will so...
Interviews: Of course I'll buy it and wait!

The column was about DLC in general. These things take quite a time, it's a risky business more than people think, Sakurai not really fond of idea of season pass, etc.
So basically, Nintendo's making some risks with how they're handling Smash's DLC, Sakurai isn't big on a season pass (I agree, I preferred Sm4sh's individual approach), and Nintendo planned, at the very least, the concept and bare bones ideas behind the fighter's pass without Sakurai's go-ahead.

Yeah, not liking the implications, and not because of how it may affect Geno's chances (if it does at all). I don't like the sound of how they're treating Sakurai and handling this situation as a whole. Nintendo's got a lot to learn when it comes to stuff like this, it seems. You'd think they'd at least treat the director of freaking Smash Bros. with a little more respect.
 

Firox

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Hypothetical but serious question: How much would it cost for a private citizen to buy the rights to SMRPG? Like I know franchises like Mario and Fortnite are worth billions, but something small and specific like SMRPG that only gets used now for ports and like the 2 spirits included in SSBU has to be worth at most like 10 million dollars, right? Also is that something someone could legally do? Like another very similar example is the cast of characters from Street Fighter EX. They are owned by Arika in a very similar way to how SE owns Geno. And they just now appeared in a new installment of Fighting Layer but before that were only marginally more used than Geno. So if someone wealthy enough wanted could they just buy the rights to those characters and then sell them to Capcom at a reduced price in order for them to be used in future Street Fighter games? What are the legal roadblocks to doing something like this for Geno or the rest of SMRPG for example? Basically if I was Jeff Bezos rich could I just buy the rights to SMRPG and then sell them to Nintendo for a dollar under the agreement that Geno gets in Smash?
I like where your head's at. How I wish their were more rich gamers out there to do stuff like this.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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I have a question.
How much of the contents you guys already got from the book? I don't know what you guys don't know.
I mean, it's just a collection of old Famitsu columns but it has bunch of notes, comments, and reviews added by Sakurai himself and those were written when he was in the development of Joker. Not many news related smash but some are still interesting I guess.
I don't want go through everything and translate so if it's okay I just tl;dr some I find worthy then I can do that later.
 

Ovaltine

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I have a question.
How much of the contents you guys already got from the book? I don't know what you guys don't know.
I mean, it's just a collection of old Famitsu columns but it has bunch of notes, comments, and reviews added by Sakurai himself and those were written when he was in the development of Joker. Not many news related smash but some are still interesting I guess.
I don't want go through everything and translate so if it's okay I just tl;dr some I find worthy then I can do that later.
Honestly, I thought we knew everything from PushDustIn (SourceGaming) and his translations of everything, but... I guess some stuff must have slipped through the cracks? (thinking emoji)
 

ForsakenM

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So, which do you guys like better: Banjo-Kazooie or Dead By Daylight?

EDIT: NVM, Dauntless is back up!
 
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Ovaltine

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Remember when this was a thing? Remember when things looked so, so good for Geno, and now we're floating in this air of uncertainty?


This is why patterns shouldn't be paid attention to. If only the patterns actually stuck for our boy that time. :( Still hoping for DLC...
 
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