Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[The Anigriffin]

I almost wish they gave the Sonic franchise the Fire Emblem treatment. So many lovable and cool characters from that franchise. Imagine Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Metal Sonic and Amy playable with an Eggman boss

>Is like one of three people that would unironically like Silver

I'm a sucker for psychic characters what can I say.

I have an idea.

Exor should be playable He would be a swordfighter, yes, but this time, he would just be a sword swinging around on its own, rather than someone swinging it around!

Why do I want this now.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

That does call into question why Sonic hasn't been given more representation. We get Bayonetta and Joker before another Sonic character which I find to be the strangest thing.

I would have expected Tails or in the very least Knuckles to be playable.

I would kill for Tails

 

[GillyGrime]

That does call into question why Sonic hasn't been given more representation. We get Bayonetta and Joker before another Sonic character which I find to be the strangest thing.

I would have expected Tails or in the very least Knuckles to be playable.

It's such a missed opportunity. Tails is very much iconic enough to be included as well, and at the very least Shadow can be a low-effort echo, being a slower stronger Sonic.

 

[GrungeMan]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1121068692610019328/photo/1

So Sakurai's figure collection for SSBU, minus any figures used in unrevealed characters, has been revealed. Note the lack of the Vifam figure. Either...

1) The Vifam figure's gun was used, but it wasn't included in this picture for some reason,
2) The Vifam figure's gun ended up being unused, after all, or,
3) The Vifam figure's gun is going to be used for a DLC character or some other material.

Interesting. It at least hints at the gun not being used for anything at all in the base game, even if there's still a chance that it was. Also, it seems for gunner-types, he uses actual figures of them for reference. Many big-name gunner characters have figures of them already. Geno doesn't. Just food for thought that probably means nothing.

Doesn't the Vifam figure's gun share similarity with that laser blaster used for acquiring spirits? Not sure what the in-game name is for it, but it's what you use to shoot the dummy fighter.

The gun and it's laser immediately made me think of that animated Vifam video that went around the internet during Ultimate speculation.

 

[Deleted member]

>Is like one of three people that would unironically like Silver

I'm a sucker for psychic characters what can I say.




Why do I want this now.

It's a win win for both people who are against more swordfighters and people who aren't because it's a very unique type of swordfighter.

 

[The Anigriffin]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1121068692610019328/photo/1

So Sakurai's figure collection for SSBU, minus any figures used in unrevealed characters, has been revealed. Note the lack of the Vifam figure. Either...

1) The Vifam figure's gun was used, but it wasn't included in this picture for some reason,
2) The Vifam figure's gun ended up being unused, after all, or,
3) The Vifam figure's gun is going to be used for a DLC character or some other material.

Interesting. It at least hints at the gun not being used for anything at all in the base game, even if there's still a chance that it was. Also, it seems for gunner-types, he uses actual figures of them for reference. Many big-name gunner characters have figures of them already. Geno doesn't. Just food for thought that probably means nothing.

Inb4 it's my son.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I do remember Sakurai saying that "Echoes won't be part of the Fighter's Pass". That's the only mention of Echoes as is. So he could still add them otherwise. I also think when he said "there's still 4 more DLC characters coming", he was strictly referring to the fighter's pass, and not in general. The fact he never mentioned Spirits tells us he's not giving us all the information.

Though I can still imagine Jane is going to be a Mii costume or Spirit. She'll get used, as she was blatantly licensed. She could not have been worked on otherwise. He paid for that license. He's not going to scrap her entirely. The character will see use, otherwise he'd be wasting money. It's too late to negotiate her removal once he worked on her. He's obligated to use her in some way due to how business works. Albeit, I could be off on this. It is remotely possible he was able to get the money back for Jane's usage, and scrap her entirely. I don't know if companies are willing to do that, though. Especially for bundle payment deals. This isn't like giving money back for a bad purchase at a retail store.

 

[EarlTamm]

I do remember Sakurai saying that "Echoes won't be part of the Fighter's Pass". That's the only mention of Echoes as is. So he could still add them otherwise. I also think when he said "there's still 4 more DLC characters coming", he was strictly referring to the fighter's pass, and not in general. The fact he never mentioned Spirits tells us he's not giving us all the information.

Though I can still imagine Jane is going to be a Mii costume or Spirit. She'll get used, as she was blatantly licensed. She could not have been worked on otherwise. He paid for that license. He's not going to scrap her entirely. The character will see use, otherwise he'd be wasting money. It's too late to negotiate her removal once he worked on her. He's obligated to use her in some way due to how business works. Albeit, I could be off on this. It is remotely possible he was able to get the money back for Jane's usage, and scrap her entirely. I don't know if companies are willing to do that, though. Especially for bundle payment deals. This isn't like giving money back for a bad purchase at a retail store.

Never really considered the licensed angle that much, but it is true. And it's clear that the original intent for the character was neither Mii costume or Spirit due to where we found Jane, but they could be used as a fallback.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I do remember Sakurai saying that "Echoes won't be part of the Fighter's Pass". That's the only mention of Echoes as is. So he could still add them otherwise. I also think when he said "there's still 4 more DLC characters coming", he was strictly referring to the fighter's pass, and not in general. The fact he never mentioned Spirits tells us he's not giving us all the information.

Though I can still imagine Jane is going to be a Mii costume or Spirit. She'll get used, as she was blatantly licensed. She could not have been worked on otherwise. He paid for that license. He's not going to scrap her entirely. The character will see use, otherwise he'd be wasting money. It's too late to negotiate her removal once he worked on her. He's obligated to use her in some way due to how business works. Albeit, I could be off on this. It is remotely possible he was able to get the money back for Jane's usage, and scrap her entirely. I don't know if companies are willing to do that, though. Especially for bundle payment deals. This isn't like giving money back for a bad purchase at a retail store.

I doubt that Jane's license was an individual thing. More likely she came with the rights to Persona 5's characters and music.

 

[EarlTamm]

I doubt that Jane's license was an individual thing. More likely she came with the rights to Persona 5's characters and music.

There could be some technicalities relating to the fact that she is from P5R. Just voicing a possibility.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That does call into question why Sonic hasn't been given more representation. We get Bayonetta and Joker before another Sonic character which I find to be the strangest thing.

I would have expected Tails or in the very least Knuckles to be playable.

Part of me thinks it's Sonic Team's misguided focus on reducing "too many playable Sonic characters" bleeding through, but Sakurai clearly has a lot of say into things as far as Smash picks go. Maybe he wants to try and give even focus towards Sega's other properties first?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I doubt that Jane's license was an individual thing. More likely she came with the rights to Persona 5's characters and music.

That's my point and why I think she'll get used, actually. Though yeah, I should've made that more clear. Thanks for making it more obvious for the rest.

Never really considered the licensed angle that much, but it is true. And it's clear that the original intent for the character was neither Mii costume or Spirit due to where we found Jane, but they could be used as a fallback.

It does make sense to go for an Echo too. I mean, remember exactly how Lucina and Dark Pit became them? Same thing could work.

No way to know for sure. That said, it is possible he scrapped the idea of a costume, never went with an Echo, and is just making her a Mii Costume or Spirit. I doubt a Mii Costume or Spirit was the original intent, which makes sense, since the file are clear she's originally a Joker costume. And the reveal is she's basically Joker's same role, if I understand P5R right? I didn't look at the details, so I could be mistaken. I do know she's a similarly designed character at best.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Part of me thinks it's Sonic Team's misguided focus on reducing "too many playable Sonic characters" bleeding through, but Sakurai clearly has a lot of say into things as far as Smash picks go. Maybe he wants to try and give even focus towards Sega's other properties first?

That could be it. I just always found it so odd, I mean you'd think if any 3rd party was going to get an additional character, it'd be Sonic. Anyone from the Sonic cast could fit into the game, there's a tooooon of characters to choose from but time and time again, the franchise gets shafted.

 

[ForsakenM]

Okay so I have this huge post coming in soon tackling how ridiculous people have gotten with the 'Erdrick is confirmed' crap and putting up an amazing argument for why DQ not only isn't confirmed for anything but also isn't a 'frontrunner' like many think.

However, that has to wait for this.

Insert yet another Smash Tuber who has no idea what they are talking about: Aaronitmar!

So I'm scrolling through my sub box and I noticed that one of the many smash tubers I subbed to during the pre-release hype has posted. It's Aaronitmar, who did a nice job covering all the Final Smash and alternate color references, so I decided to take a look. Turns out it's about his hopes for the next four DLC character, and boy has he lived in a vacuum this entire time?

So no offense, but this man is talking out his ass for most of what I watched of this video. So of course his wishlist isn't anything too crazy, and he leads off with Banjo & Kazooie, which is fair enough. However, he brings up Steve and Master Chief shortly after, and suggests that Steve is the best financial choice for Microsoft to make since it's one of their popular AND active properties. First off, you can't suggest that we know which one would be more successful, considering the larger fanbase for B&K and the fact that this fanbase perfectly fits the demographic of Smash Ultimate. Secondly, Master Chief was deconfirmed and Steve is on very shaky ground, so why are you even talking about them when it's clear you would rather have B&K? This is a 'DLC Wishlist' vid, not a 'DLC Wishlist and who I would accept if I didn't get who I wanted and how I feel about those other characters' vid. Thirdly, Nintendo and Sakurai come to THEM and tell THEM which character they want. No one has ever told them no if Reggie is to be believes (which I honestly DO believe because Sakurai is a man with and incredible legacy surrounding him and he knows the best choices to make for the game so I find it easy for him to 'rest his case' as it where. Plus, it's ****ing Smash Brothers...or better known as Nintendo All-Star Big Fight!) then if they waltz in and say 'We want Banjo' then the odds are high that they walk out with Banjo and a Master Chief hat and a Steve Mii Costume among other things.

His second is Sora (of course) and he believes that the 'Disney Issue' isn't an issue if Mickey, Donald and Goofy are in no way represented in Smash. He then suggests that, while first saying Sora is "practically a shoe in", Sora isn't ACTUALLY a shoe in because Dragon Quest exists and leakers said things n stuff. Okay so first off, Mickey and Friends CAN show up in Smash if that is what is chosen to be done. Mickey and Goofy have been referred to before in Brawl via that weird game timeline thing, and even just small references or having them show up in his Final Smash could be done just fine without opening any floodgates. However I must say I agree that Disney isn't an issue in any way and that Sora has enough going on in his home series to work out fine without any Disney references, but I would have to say not getting a Donald Goofy and Mickey Spirit would be a big missed opportunity and I would love to see a 'Trinity Limit' Spirit if possible. Now, this Dragon Quest **** needs to chill out man, it's getting super old. I'll address it more properly later, but the leakers he's referring to have been dead in the water for months now and have no credibility or not enough to matter. Can we PLEASE stop referring to leakers when it comes to DQ like it means something significant? It's like DQ doesn't have enough on it's own to push it to the forefront of debates or something...more on that later.

Then, of course, we get to Geno. And what is his opinion? Geno is dead, no chance at all. Allow me to quote him verbatim.

"As for Geno...I think all hope is lost for my boi. I'd love to see him in the game, and I don't believe that him as a Spirit means that he can't be in the game as a fighter, but I just don't think that he is going to BE a fighter. As much as Sakurai likes him, as much as he has sort of a cult following as a character AND a potential fighter in Smash, I just worry that he isn't notable enough to be added. Several characters were already added to Smash because of the Ballot. Specifically, Ridley, King K. Rool and the Belmonts. My fear is that there are too many of these black sheep characters who were voted in from the Ballot and THAT means that future characters from a similar category...couldn't be added. Now obviously Sakurai plays by his own rules. What he says goes and if it came down to it and he wanted to add Geno, Banjo, Steve, Master Chief and Cooking Mama...those are the characters we would see, but I think there is going to be a balance between old and new characters added and for Geno...I'm just worried that he is going to miss the cut."

I will let YOU guys break this down and share your thoughts. Keep in mind, he says ALL THIS, and then cuts to Rex and Pyra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and says "but we can't have ALL third-party characters."

EDIT: I realize that he isn't being mean about anything and is an alright guy, but after having to deal with people like LaxChris and WiiUGamer spreading nothing but fake garbage and others like Billybo giving ridiculous ratings without being up-to-date with information on characters it irks me into action now when I see someone talks about a topic and have little to no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone else ever accidentally press the reply button on mobile before you actually finish your post?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Anyone else ever accidentally press the reply button on mobile before you actually finish your post?

No on Mobile for that, but I've had similar issues. Like when I forget to edit a post in after finishing up a reply to it. As I already made the last post. Sometimes when you're a mod you appreciate your ability to merge your own posts way too much, heh.

 

[MissingGlitch]

My problem with mobile seems to be there is more redirect ads then I would like. I keep getting the same "Youtube has chosen you for a prize" redirect whenever I try coming to this thread.

Also the draft button seems to be missing so I can't seem to get rid of a draft I didn't want.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My problem with mobile seems to be there is more redirect ads then I would like. I keep getting the same "Youtube has chosen you for a prize" redirect whenever I try coming to this thread.

Also the draft button seems to be missing so I can't seem to get rid of a draft I didn't want.

Please do all you can to send this information to Forum Support. These are major bugs/issues that hurt the usage of the site. Whether it's taking screenshots, giving us the ad url, or whatever.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Okay so I have this huge post coming in soon tackling how ridiculous people have gotten with the 'Erdrick is confirmed' crap and putting up an amazing argument for why DQ not only isn't confirmed for anything but also isn't a 'frontrunner' like many think.

However, that has to wait for this.

Insert yet another Smash Tuber who has no idea what they are talking about: Aaronitmar!

So I'm scrolling through my sub box and I noticed that one of the many smash tubers I subbed to during the pre-release hype has posted. It's Aaronitmar, who did a nice job covering all the Final Smash and alternate color references, so I decided to take a look. Turns out it's about his hopes for the next four DLC character, and boy has he lived in a vacuum this entire time?

So no offense, but this man is talking out his *** for most of what I watched of this video. So of course his wishlist isn't anything too crazy, and he leads off with Banjo & Kazooie, which is fair enough. However, he brings up Steve and Master Chief shortly after, and suggests that Steve is the best financial choice for Microsoft to make since it's one of their popular AND active properties. First off, you can't suggest that we know which one would be more successful, considering the larger fanbase for B&K and the fact that this fanbase perfectly fits the demographic of Smash Ultimate. Secondly, Master Chief was deconfirmed and Steve is on very shaky ground, so why are you even talking about them when it's clear you would rather have B&K? This is a 'DLC Wishlist' vid, not a 'DLC Wishlist and who I would accept if I didn't get who I wanted and how I feel about those other characters' vid. Thirdly, Nintendo and Sakurai come to THEM and tell THEM which character they want. No one has ever told them no if Reggie is to be believes (which I honestly DO believe because Sakurai is a man with and incredible legacy surrounding him and he knows the best choices to make for the game so I find it easy for him to 'rest his case' as it where. Plus, it's ****ing Smash Brothers...or better known as Nintendo All-Star Big Fight!) then if they waltz in and say 'We want Banjo' then the odds are high that they walk out with Banjo and a Master Chief hat and a Steve Mii Costume among other things.

His second is Sora (of course) and he believes that the 'Disney Issue' isn't an issue if Mickey, Donald and Goofy are in no way represented in Smash. He then suggests that, while first saying Sora is "practically a shoe in", Sora isn't ACTUALLY a shoe in because Dragon Quest exists and leakers said things n stuff. Okay so first off, Mickey and Friends CAN show up in Smash if that is what is chosen to be done. Mickey and Goofy have been referred to before in Brawl via that weird game timeline thing, and even just small references or having them show up in his Final Smash could be done just fine without opening any floodgates. However I must say I agree that Disney isn't an issue in any way and that Sora has enough going on in his home series to work out fine without any Disney references, but I would have to say not getting a Donald Goofy and Mickey Spirit would be a big missed opportunity and I would love to see a 'Trinity Limit' Spirit if possible. Now, this Dragon Quest **** needs to chill out man, it's getting super old. I'll address it more properly later, but the leakers he's referring to have been dead in the water for months now and have no credibility or not enough to matter. Can we PLEASE stop referring to leakers when it comes to DQ like it means something significant? It's like DQ doesn't have enough on it's own to push it to the forefront of debates or something...more on that later.

Then, of course, we get to Geno. And what is his opinion? Geno is dead, no chance at all. Allow me to quote him verbatim.

"As for Geno...I think all hope is lost for my boi. I'd love to see him in the game, and I don't believe that him as a Spirit means that he can't be in the game as a fighter, but I just don't think that he is going to BE a fighter. As much as Sakurai likes him, as much as he has sort of a cult following as a character AND a potential fighter in Smash, I just worry that he isn't notable enough to be added. Several characters were already added to Smash because of the Ballot. Specifically, Ridley, King K. Rool and the Belmonts. My fear is that there are too many of these black sheep characters who were voted in from the Ballot and THAT means that future characters from a similar category...couldn't be added. Now obviously Sakurai plays by his own rules. What he says goes and if it came down to it and he wanted to add Geno, Banjo, Steve, Master Chief and Cooking Mama...those are the characters we would see, but I think there is going to be a balance between old and new characters added and for Geno...I'm just worried that he is going to miss the cut."

I will let YOU guys break this down and share your thoughts. Keep in mind, he says ALL THIS, and then cuts to Rex and Pyra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and says "but we can't have ALL third-party characters."

EDIT: I realize that he isn't being mean about anything and is an alright guy, but after having to deal with people like LaxChris and WiiUGamer spreading nothing but fake garbage and others like Billybo giving ridiculous ratings without being up-to-date with information on characters it irks me into action now when I see someone talks about a topic and have little to no idea what they are talking about.

I don't get it, you're ****ting on a guy for sharing his opinions... on a wishlist video?

From what you mention, the guy didn't even say anything factually incorrect, so cut the man some slack.

Anyone else ever accidentally press the reply button on mobile before you actually finish your post?

It has happened to me, yes.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Please do all you can to send this information to Forum Support. These are major bugs/issues that hurt the usage of the site. Whether it's taking screenshots, giving us the ad url, or whatever.

You might need to point me towards where I can do that. I am having a hard time finding it. Unless I am just being dumb and blind lol

I did get the redirect to happen again and got a screenshot/url. So theres that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You might need to point me towards where I can do that. I am having a hard time finding it. Unless I am just being dumb and blind lol

I did get the redirect to happen again and got a screenshot/url. So theres that.

https://smashboards.com/forums/forum-support.108/ Here you go.

It's actually at the bottom of any page, where it lists it under Information. You can also see a link to Staff, Privacy Policy, and Go Premium!

If it helps, it's actually quite common people don't notice these things anyway, heh. I'm used to pointing these out all the time. I admit they aren't "obvious" to see. They're not high-contrasting colors, and it's kind of hard to read some of the words. White on Yellow doesn't look great.

 

[The Anigriffin]

My problem with mobile seems to be there is more redirect ads then I would like. I keep getting the same "Youtube has chosen you for a prize" redirect whenever I try coming to this thread.

Also the draft button seems to be missing so I can't seem to get rid of a draft I didn't want.

Kinda glad I'm not the only person this is happening to. I thought I just had a buggy phone heh...

 

[link2702]

My problem with mobile seems to be there is more redirect ads then I would like. I keep getting the same "Youtube has chosen you for a prize" redirect whenever I try coming to this thread.

Also the draft button seems to be missing so I can't seem to get rid of a draft I didn't want.

I’ve actually mentioned this to some mods before. They’re trying to fix it.

Problem is they can’t do much themselves other than go through the company that runs the ads on the site. Or something like that anyway. But trust me they’re aware and are trying to stop it.

 

[Ovaltine]

You know, I'm bored as heck and honestly curious, all while being stuck and bedridden and feeling like honest to god tripe.

T TriggerX I remember saying you weren't very worried about Geno, despite everything pointing against him, even if we get Erdrick or another SE rep in the Fighter's Pass. I've always wanted to ask why and I never got the chance to. I'm honestly curious why anyone has hope at this point, not because I think it's unrealistic or silly to have hope, but as someone with a different perspective.

 

[MissingGlitch]

You know, I'm bored as heck and honestly curious, all while being stuck and bedridden and feeling like honest to god tripe.

T TriggerX I remember saying you weren't very worried about Geno, despite everything pointing against him, even if we get Erdrick or another SE rep in the Fighter's Pass. I've always wanted to ask why and I never got the chance to. I'm honestly curious why anyone has hope at this point, not because I think it's unrealistic or silly to have hope, but as someone with a different perspective.

Personally I just moved on to fully supporting other characters. It would be nice to have Geno. But currently he doesn't have as much going for him like Banjo and (personal bias speaking) Phoenix Wright.

 

[fleshdude.gov]

Though I can still imagine Jane is going to be a Mii costume or Spirit. She'll get used, as she was blatantly licensed. She could not have been worked on otherwise. He paid for that license. He's not going to scrap her entirely. The character will see use, otherwise he'd be wasting money. It's too late to negotiate her removal once he worked on her. He's obligated to use her in some way due to how business works. Albeit, I could be off on this. It is remotely possible he was able to get the money back for Jane's usage, and scrap her entirely. I don't know if companies are willing to do that, though. Especially for bundle payment deals. This isn't like giving money back for a bad purchase at a retail store.

The licensing money isn't Sakurai's, it's Nintendo's. The big N has more than enough to spare.

Nintendo would not care about getting the money back if "Jane" goes unused - at that point, it's a sunk cost that's written off and ignored. It's probably already been paid for by Joker's DLC sales, anyways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The licensing money isn't Sakurai's, it's Nintendo's. The big N has more than enough to spare.

Nintendo would not care about getting the money back if "Jane" goes unused - at that point, it's a sunk cost that's written off and ignored. It's probably already been paid for by Joker's DLC sales, anyways.

That's not how it works either way. Sakurai can and will use it, as he's in control of the development. Never mind it's also part of Smash's budget being used, so it's also "his" money.

You're making a fallacy about how licensing works. They can't ignore what they obtained. That's bad for business. Companies heavily care about this, because they aren't willing to trust people who license stuff for no reason. Jill is almost entirely guaranteed to be seen(well, not the name Jane anymore), because she's already licensed to be used in the product. That's something that cannot be backpedaled. Neither company will ever waste money and all that work on her character details. They already had a hair animation done, which is more than simply just licensing. The fact she was worked on is why they can't simply just scrap her and give the money back. The context is already used. It's an obligation to finish her usage, even if it it's differently than planned. If they don't(bar giving the money back due to another negotiation), it's a breach of trust between companies and vastly hurts future licensing. There's a reason licensing is very fickle.

Sega is trusting Nintendo and Sakurai to use their content. That's why they bought its usage. Ignoring it means that they will have a harder time trusting them to actually work properly with. It's basically lying about your plans. They can easily do things like renegotiate of course, and that may have happened. But the whole "the sales covers the cost" is not a remote factor in why them using Jane is important. It has nothing to even do with saving money whatsoever. It would've been as simple as getting some of the money back, even if not a perfect deal, if it was simply as wasting money alone. No company is willing to waste money to license something and just outright cut it. That's just common sense. Best they can do, is, again, renegotiate, whether it's to use them in a different way with permission(as all licensing is done via very specific details of what is allowed and what isn't) or to get their money back. If Nintendo went and got their money back, it means they care about what Sega thinks and are willing to work with them when things go sour so everybody is happy. There really isn't an inbetween in these cases. Scrapping a licensed thing is just not an option in itself(unless the company goes under, and that's a whole nother issue to begin with).

 

[Ovaltine]

Jill is almost entirely guaranteed to be seen(well, not the name Jane anymore), because she's already licensed to be used in the product.

I think you mean Kasumi, my dude?

That said, Jill Valentine WOULD be pretty freaking sick.

 

[EarlTamm]

That's not how it works either way. Sakurai can and will use it, as he's in control of the development. Never mind it's also part of Smash's budget being used, so it's also "his" money.

You're making a fallacy about how licensing works. They can't ignore what they obtained. That's bad for business. Companies heavily care about this, because they aren't willing to trust people who license stuff for no reason. Jill is almost entirely guaranteed to be seen(well, not the name Jane anymore), because she's already licensed to be used in the product. That's something that cannot be backpedaled. Neither company will ever waste money and all that work on her character details. They already had a hair animation done, which is more than simply just licensing. The fact she was worked on is why they can't simply just scrap her and give the money back. The context is already used. It's an obligation to finish her usage, even if it it's differently than planned. If they don't(bar giving the money back due to another negotiation), it's a breach of trust between companies and vastly hurts future licensing. There's a reason licensing is very fickle.

Sega is trusting Nintendo and Sakurai to use their content. That's why they bought its usage. Ignoring it means that they will have a harder time trusting them to actually work properly with. It's basically lying about your plans. They can easily do things like renegotiate of course, and that may have happened. But the whole "the sales covers the cost" is not a remote factor in why them using Jane is important. It has nothing to even do with saving money whatsoever. It would've been as simple as getting some of the money back, even if not a perfect deal, if it was simply as wasting money alone. No company is willing to waste money to license something and just outright cut it. That's just common sense. Best they can do, is, again, renegotiate, whether it's to use them in a different way with permission(as all licensing is done via very specific details of what is allowed and what isn't) or to get their money back. If Nintendo went and got their money back, it means they care about what Sega thinks and are willing to work with them when things go sour so everybody is happy. There really isn't an inbetween in these cases. Scrapping a licensed thing is just not an option in itself(unless the company goes under, and that's a whole nother issue to begin with).

This gets even more important when Kasumi being in Smash would be the perfect marketing opportunity for Atlus, so if Nintendo abandoned her completely it would be a major slap in the face for Atlus. To Atlus, the deal break would damage the sales of P5R in some way, and that is certainly not good for company relations.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think you mean Kasumi, my dude?

That said, Jill Valentine WOULD be pretty freaking sick.

Yes, Kasumi. I'm not a Persona fan, but I did mention "well, not the name Jane anymore" for that reason alone, heh.

So I probably won't remember her final name. Same character in context, though, considering she was first a costume of Joker's. Either way, if they scrapped her, it was only to get the money back from Sega with a new deal at best. Otherwise, expect to see her. They can't scrapped content they paid for, after all. That's, again, business 101. It's a good way to lose business and make companies not want to work with you ever again. Just don't screw them over with stuff like that. Simply okaying a different usage of Kasumi(say, a Mii costume) is way easier, even with no price differences. Changes in development happen, and clearly something did, as she's nowhere to be found. It does make sense, at least, why it could've happened; P5R was going to be revealed later than planned, so the costume got scrapped and reused in a different way to prevent any delays of Joker alone. Joker might've been slightly delayed at best due to this, as they needed one more costume. It could even be why he was dropped without a direct, as something went wrong with development.

It also helps that P5R is its own thing entirely, which despite being a remake, wasn't represented in Ultimate as of yet. Promotional timing makes a lot of sense. It's not even like how they used Brawl to show off some stuff from later games, as those were games that came out significantly later. Though that could also be because Sega and Konami saw "future promotion done before the reveal" as a different situation. With P5R meant to be shown off way earlier than what MGS4 was, they wanted to change it up immediately. If they waited even longer to show off Joker fully, people would've gotten rather unruly(and they already were). My guess, if things went as planned, we'd have gotten a full direct after P5R was shown off, or at least a mini-direct. Who knows what happened, though.

This gets even more important when Kasumi being in Smash would be the perfect marketing opportunity for Atlus, so if Nintendo abandoned her completely it would be a major slap in the face for Atlus. To Atlus, the deal break would damage the sales of P5R in some way, and that is certainly not good for company relations.

Exactly. Echo, Costume, Spirit, cutting her would heavily damage relationships. Giving the money back is at least possible, but just scrapping her because they'll make the money back is a good way to hurt Nintendo's image with other companies. They already did enough bad stuff in the SNES era alone. They can't afford to do stuff like this. Plus, no way Sakurai would be onboard with pure scrapping, as he's smarter than that. They came to an agreement, and he doesn't scrap licensed content just like that. You could also say it's a Developer 101 thing.

 

[MissingGlitch]

This gets even more important when Kasumi being in Smash would be the perfect marketing opportunity for Atlus, so if Nintendo abandoned her completely it would be a major slap in the face for Atlus. To Atlus, the deal break would damage the sales of P5R in some way, and that is certainly not good for company relations.

I'm just going to wait and see if the Switch gets Royal or a standard edition port.

Because if the Switch gets the standard edition and adds Kasumi they are advertising an upcoming PS4 exclusive game. Which I would consider Atlus slapping Nintendo in the face.

 

[EarlTamm]

Exactly. Echo, Costume, Spirit, cutting her would heavily damage relationships. Giving the money back is at least possible, but just scrapping her because they'll make the money back is a good way to hurt Nintendo's image with other companies. They already did enough bad stuff in the SNES era alone. They can't afford to do stuff like this. Plus, no way Sakurai would be onboard with pure scrapping, as he's smarter than that. They came to an agreement, and he doesn't scrap licensed content just like that. You could also say it's a Developer 101 thing.

I agree. I will say though, there would likely be stress for them to include Kasumi in a serious way. If Sakurai made the promise of including her as an costume or an echo, downgrading to a Mii or a spirit would not be a good look. Sure, it's not as bad as cutting her entirely, but Atlus would note this. Having your character directly on the select screen alone is probably worth a ton.

I'm just going to wait and see if the Switch gets Royal or a standard edition port.

Because if the Switch gets the standard edition and adds Kasumi they are advertising an upcoming PS4 exclusive game. Which I would consider Atlus slapping Nintendo in the face.

It was a Sakurai and Nintendo choice. They can't exactly slap their own faces.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Personally I just moved on to fully supporting other characters. It would be nice to have Geno. But currently he doesn't have as much going for him like Banjo and (personal bias speaking) Phoenix Wright.

Stating that Phoenix Wright has anything going for him or has more going for him than Geno invalidates anything else you could say, even with that disclaimer of bias

 

[MissingGlitch]

It was a Sakurai and Nintendo choice. They can't exactly slap their own faces.

I just don't see what Nintendo has to gain by adding Joker and a Royal advertisement but only get the standard edition in return.

Stating that Phoenix Wright has anything going for him or has more going for him than Geno invalidates anything else you could say, even with that disclaimer of bias

This isn't really the thread to argue about it. And the way you worded that came off as rather harsh. But he hasn't been deconfirmed yet and his reasons are as good as most other speculation people have outside of insiders saying hes in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I agree. I will say though, there would likely be stress for them to include Kasumi in a serious way. If Sakurai made the promise of including her as an costume or an echo, downgrading to a Mii or a spirit would not be a good look. Sure, it's not as bad as cutting her entirely, but Atlus would note this. Having your character directly on the select screen alone is probably worth a ton.

I don't think she was originally an Echo, just a Joker costume. Negotiating off of that to have any other role is a bit easier. She only had hair work done to our knowledge, so at worst they'd be scrapping a small animation file, even if she got reduced to a spirit. From what I remember with what Vaanrose said, I don't think they can just transfer the file over a Mii costume as is. They'd have to remake it, and to be fair, I don't think it's a gargantuan task. Though I do agree that it could look bad for Nintendo if they didn't outright use her as an Echo instead. She's a very important character.

As for your other point, exactly. Nintendo doesn't care if the characters advertises a non-Nintendo game. Look at Ryu, who only had Street Fighter V coming up at the time, or the FFVIIr game for Cloud. And nothing else. There's no slap in the face. Though to be fair, Sakurai was more involved directly with the choices, so Nintendo could potentially have a different opinion of it. Either way, they blatantly wanted a character to be used that wasn't for a Switch game, but a PS4 game. It's a conscious decision. They knew what they were doing. It also means that PS4 players are more willing to get a Switch to play Smash, so it helps gets gamers from other company consoles to come to the Switch. Advertising works both ways, after all.

I just don't see what Nintendo has to gain by adding Joker and a Royal advertisement but only get the standard edition in return.

Because people who play Royal have even more reason to pick up Smash. For that matter, they might not have anything to gain nor care. They want a cool character idea in and Sakurai convinced them it was a fun idea. Don't forget that Sakurai doesn't care about console wars and has a pretty large influence in gaming. Nintendo absolutely knew what they were doing when they had her licensed. You're looking too much into promotion as if it matters severely for Nintendo. It definitely doesn't. The only effect promotion at most had with Kasume(Jane) is that she wasn't revealed yet, so they couldn't actually use her in Ultimate yet. If that's what's happening, that is. Besides that, this would actually be a good thing for them in another way; there's some dumb fan rule that they need a Nintendo appearance to appear in. Sakurai has never suggested that, or attempted to strictly abide by that. It's just something he factors in. With Kasumi in, it means that people will understand his feelings better and more dumb fan rules will be broken. It actually serves a really good purpose in making the game more favorable to others, as well getting fan support for "impossible" additions like Cloud was. So there is something to gain, just not a straight game in itself.

...Besides that, did I miss where vanilla Persona 5 was coming to the Switch? I didn't see the announcement trailer, so I'd like to know if that happened.

 

[MissingGlitch]

...Besides that, did I miss where vanilla Persona 5 was coming to the Switch? I didn't see the announcement trailer, so I'd like to know if that happened

I'm speaking more in a "what if" sense. Since there are reports of a P5S. Which makes it sound like it will be different from royal since I don't see why they would give it a different name if it was also going to be royal.

 

[Ovaltine]

...Besides that, did I miss where vanilla Persona 5 was coming to the Switch? I didn't see the announcement trailer, so I'd like to know if that happened.

We don't have an announcement yet, but we did get a leaked Best Buy listing for Persona 5 Switch. That said, nothing is confirmed.

 

[The Anigriffin]

...Besides that, did I miss where vanilla Persona 5 was coming to the Switch? I didn't see the announcement trailer, so I'd like to know if that happened.

There hasn't been an official announcement as of today, so I guess we gotta wait a bit longer to see if the Best Buy Leak was genuine.

Edit: Duck Friend beat me to it lulz.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We don't have an announcement yet, but we did get a leaked Best Buy listing for Persona 5 Switch. That said, nothing is confirmed.

Considering they leaked we could use amiibo to unlock characters in Ultimate, I'm not going to trust them that much.

I'm speaking more in a "what if" sense. Since there are reports of a P5S. Which makes it sound like it will be different from royal since I don't see why they would give it a different name if it was also going to be royal.

Ahhhh. I dunno, it could be a codename for a Switch-specific version of Royale. But who knows. Either way, I'm sticking with a "there is no currently announced version of Persona 5 for the Switch, so I won't theorize it's some kind of an important promotional factor" for now. That said, it's kind of a funny thing too. If we get P5 for the Switch, it means people will accuse Joker of being only there for promotion. If we don't get it, Switch fans will be unhappy. There's no winning scenario here, sadly. Though it's also part of why I love the idea that Sakurai will add characters regardless of upcoming games or if they even have a Nintendo appearance. It paints a far better picture of his choices overall. Even then, people are picky or still want those upcoming games, so it's not a perfect scenario either.

 

[Deleted member]

Do you guys think Mallow and Geno could get a slight redesign in an SMRPG remake?