Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Are we sure we aren't mixing up the 15-ish WOL slots with the 29 ID slots at this point? If the ID slots are used, at least half of those would be alts anyway.

I have a dumb, stupid explanation to the mystery of the 16 dummy slots. Don't take it seriously. It involves the rumored Dragon Quest representative not just being DQIII's Erdrick, but rather all eleven Dragon Quest protagonists. Apologies if discussion about Dragon Quest in Smash is the equivalent of kicking a dead horse.

We have 16 dummy data slots and 5 challenger packs. The Plant uses one slot, so that leaves us with 15 dummy slots. Joker using one would have 14 left. Dragon Quest has eleven installments and thus eleven protagonists. Assuming that the Dragon Quest franchise is an upcoming challenger pack and a single Dragon Quest protagonist takes up one slot, then that would leave us with three slots, for the three remaining challenger packs.

Of course there are a lot of problems that would be raised with this explanation (no fighter has more than 8 alternative costumes, stuffing all 11 protagonists into 1 character slot may do the 11 of them a wasted potential, alternate variants (Olimar and Alph, M!Corrin and F!Corrin, M!Robin and F!Robin, Villagers) don't use several dummy slots (someone can correct me if I am wrong), etc).

There, I solved the mystery of the dummy slots.

More to the point, some of the heroes are little kids. Unless they were all chibi, this just doesn't work.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If there were 14 more characters, and I got to choose...

1. Phoenix Wright
2. Geno
3. Ray MK
4. Yuri Lowell
5. Black Shadow
6. Aran Ryan
7. M. Bison
8. Ninten
9. Paper Mario
10. Banjo-Kazooie
11. 9-Volt
12. Isaac
13. Chorus Kids
14. Sukapon
Something like this, anyway.

Double hell yes to this list.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I have a dumb, stupid explanation to the mystery of the 16 dummy slots. Don't take it seriously. It involves the rumored Dragon Quest representative not just being DQIII's Erdrick, but rather all eleven Dragon Quest protagonists. Apologies if discussion about Dragon Quest in Smash is the equivalent of kicking a dead horse.

We have 16 dummy data slots and 5 challenger packs. The Plant uses one slot, so that leaves us with 15 dummy slots. Joker using one would have 14 left. Dragon Quest has eleven installments and thus eleven protagonists. Assuming that the Dragon Quest franchise is an upcoming challenger pack and a single Dragon Quest protagonist takes up one slot, then that would leave us with three slots, for the three remaining challenger packs.

Of course there are a lot of problems that would be raised with this explanation (no fighter has more than 8 alternative costumes, stuffing all 11 protagonists into 1 character slot may do the 11 of them a wasted potential, alternate variants (Olimar and Alph, M!Corrin and F!Corrin, M!Robin and F!Robin, Villagers) don't use several dummy slots (someone can correct me if I am wrong), etc).

There, I solved the mystery of the dummy slots.

Piranha Plant uses 1 despite having a Pipe and a Pot version of it.
So even if Erdrick have alts for all the heroes, he would uses only 1 dummy slot.

 

[BZocky]

Even though I have no personal opinion on Geno besides really liking his design, his inclusion would make a ton of people happy! Plus the SNES is a fantastic console and more reps from that era are always a good thing.

 

[MajoraMan28]

If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?

Fine. I guess I'll have the guts to respond here even though a particular character didn't make the cut, but the 14 characters for me (considering the idea of ATs and Spirits being deconfirms) are:
1) Sephiroth
2) Poochy
3) Porky
4) Monster Hunter rep
5) Erdrick
6) Sylux
7) Cuphead
8) Giygas (Earthbound Beginnings form)
9) Ms. Pacman
10) Malos (Xenoblade 2)
11) Banjo
12) Phoenix Wright
13) Lloyd Irving
14) Terra

If I were to disconsider the AT and Spirits deconfirm, it goes:
1) Sephiroth
2) Pauline
3) Ghirahim
4) Captain Toad
5) Krystal
6) Impa
7) Porky
8) Giygas
9) Rex
10) Erdrick
11) Monster Hunter rep
12) Cuphead/Banjo
13) Lloyd Irving
14) MK Ray III

Not putting my Goku-tier pick bc it's silly to even consider such characters to show up, even though it would make me go nuts.

 

[SSGuy]

Nothing changes with the datamine for us. We continue to let Nintendo/Square know our support for Geno whether they plan on giving up no additional characters or 20 additional characters for DLC.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

one day we will get Marx :'(

One day, that commie madman will finally get his chance to shine.

Mine is in no particular order. Bear in mind it is littered with some crack picks.

1. Adol (Ys)
2. Geno (SMRPG)
3. Erdrick (DQIII)
4. 2B (Nier: Automata)
5. An Astral Chain rep
6. Isaac (Golden Sun)
7. Dante (Devil May Cry)
8. A FromSoftware rep
9. Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
10. Edelgard (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)
11. Don-chan (Taiko no Tatsujin)
12. Arle (Puyo Puyo)
13. Banjo-Kazooie
14. Kat (Gravity Rush)

It's good to know that I'm not the only one who also wants 2B to be playable.

 

[BZL8]

More to the point, some of the heroes are little kids. Unless they were all chibi, this just doesn't work.

Piranha Plant uses 1 despite having a Pipe and a Pot version of it.
So even if Erdrick have alts for all the heroes, he would uses only 1 dummy slot.

Hence my acknowledgement of various problems with the explanation and not to take it seriously.

The thing that baffles me is the idea that more additional seasons of DLC are coming. Personally, I'd say 80 characters is a pretty good stopping point for Ultimate and too much is a bad thing. Poor Sakurai is gonna need to retire if he keeps having to do development and I can't imagine some people being happy with 15/90 (17% of the total roster) characters being locked behind DLC (unless the characters themselves are so wild / expensive / more than justifiable enough to be worth forking money).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In fairness, overworking is a cultural trait in Japan. To us, it's the greatest struggle in his life. To him, it's Tuesday.

In any case, nothing says no one can take an extended break over there, seeing how some games randomly get new content. The Switch's life cycle isn't going to end any time soon anyway, so it's plenty of time to let people digest the current content until the team feels like they want to add in a few more things.

In the end it's all conjecture, no one knows what will happen, we aren't soothsayers. I say we wait until that damn fifth character comes and see if any announcements come at that point, before anyone can assume what comes next, if anything.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

In fairness, overworking is a cultural trait in Japan. To us, it's the greatest struggle in his life. To him, it's Tuesday. In any case, nothing says no one can take an extended break over there, seeing how some games randomly get new content. The Switch's life cycle isn't going to end any time soon anyway, so it's plenty of time to let people digest the current content until the team feels like they want to add in a few more things. In the end it's all conjecture, no one knows what will happen, we aren't soothsayers. I say we wait until that damn fifth character comes and see if any announcements come at that point, before anyone can assume what comes next, if anything.

Sakurai probably wants to break the limit again. For Smash 3DS/Wii U it was seven DLC characters, maybe this time it'll be ten. In my opinion, I think 80 is the perfect number to stop at... hmm, maybe this is why Piranha Plant is here, just so it won't end at an odd number of fighters. Ending it one number away from 80 seems less special. lol

You know, this thread often talks about Geno related dreams they get, but I have never gotten any. Yet somehow last night I got a bizarre dream about a game I have not even played yet and have just watched footage of. My subconscious has weird priorities.

Same here. I had a random dream two nights ago where I was slowly eating duck meat.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai probably wants to break the limit again. For Smash 3DS/Wii U it was seven DLC characters, maybe this time it'll be ten. In my opinion, I think 80 is the perfect number to stop at... hmm, maybe this is why Piranha Plant is here, just so it won't end at an odd number of fighters. Ending it one number away from 80 seems less special. lol

Same here. I had a random dream two nights ago where I was slowly eating duck meat.

You know what, that statement of yours reminds me how in Dragon Ball, King Kai informed Goku how dangerous pushing past the limits of Kaioken can be, yet he got past them anyway.

Also, Sakurai doing even/round roster total numbers? Nah, it'd be 81 at least.

Again, you guys get all the fun dreams, mine are boring...

 

[TreeBranch]

Do we know when the WoL dummy slots were added? I wonder how long ago these fighter passes were potentially planned.

This datamine has been kinda reviving my hope for spirit and assist trophy DLC further down the line. Maybe we’ll even get a second ballot? (Which we can try to win!)

 

[Megadoomer]

Sakurai probably wants to break the limit again. For Smash 3DS/Wii U it was seven DLC characters, maybe this time it'll be ten. In my opinion, I think 80 is the perfect number to stop at... hmm, maybe this is why Piranha Plant is here, just so it won't end at an odd number of fighters. Ending it one number away from 80 seems less special. lol

I feel like ten might be pushing it; keep in mind that two of the DLC characters in Smash 4 were semi-clones (or at least heavily based on a character that was already in the base game), while one of the five unique characters was a veteran, which would (in all likelihood) make the creation process much easier.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if there was a pass made entirely of Echo Fighters, if only to make things a little easier/provide a bit of a "break" from uniques.

 

[GillyGrime]

You know what, that statement of yours reminds me how in Dragon Ball, King Kai informed Goku how dangerous pushing past the limits of Kaioken can be, yet he got past them anyway.

Also, Sakurai doing even/round roster total numbers? Nah, it'd be 81 at least.

Again, you guys get all the fun dreams, mine are boring...

Having "Geno is in Smash" dreams ain't fun for me haha.

The few times it has happened, I'll think I'm in a dream in the dream, and check my phone to check if he's in or not only for my dream phone to reinforce that he's in Smash only for me to inevitably wake up and take a crushing 20 seconds as I transfer from dream state to awake that my subconscious has played me once again.

I prefer the dreams where I'm discovering non-existent rooms in my house or riding a dragon etc.

 

[TreeBranch]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if there was a pass made entirely of Echo Fighters, if only to make things a little easier/provide a bit of a "break" from uniques.

It could happen, but would Sakurai allow it?Echoes always felt like a way to increase Ultimate’s small roster size due to time constraints. I wonder if Sakurai would voluntarily make echoes?

 

[BZL8]

You know, this thread often talks about Geno related dreams they get, but I have never gotten any. Yet somehow last night I got a bizarre dream about a game I have not even played yet and have just watched footage of. My subconscious has weird priorities.

A vivid dream I had involved me witnessing a fight between the Square-Enix Seven, only for some white-haired sword-wielding figure to unexpectedly enter the fight and solo all seven. I couldn't make out the figure but I thought it was either MGRR's Raiden, Father Nier, Brother Nier, Dante, Vergil, Nero, or 2B. I think reading up on Metal Gear, Nier, and Drakengard and getting hyped for Devil May Cry 5 got to my head. It wasn't the best dream to have as a Geno fan.

 

[GillyGrime]

It could happen, but would Sakurai allow it?Echoes always felt like a way to increase Ultimate’s small roster size due to time constraints. I wonder if Sakurai would voluntarily make echoes?

Echoes were such a successful re-branding of 'clones'. The community went from hating Dark Pit's guts in Smash 4 to wanting as many echo fighters as possible. While I'd love to see it happen, I don't expect any post launch echo fighters.

Seeing a Mrs Pacman echo with her respective games' exclusive fruit would be pretty neat, I'd gladly throw some money at that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Seeing a Mrs Pacman echo with her respective games' exclusive fruit would be pretty neat, I'd gladly throw some money at that.

I mean, she doesn't even have a spirit anyway, so might as well acknowledge her already. Especially if they're still gonna be modest about having any actual other unique Bamco newcomers...

 

[TreeBranch]

Echoes were such a successful re-branding of 'clones'. The community went from hating Dark Pit's guts in Smash 4 to wanting as many echo fighters as possible. While I'd love to see it happen, I don't expect any post launch echo fighters.

Seeing a Mrs Pacman echo with her respective games' exclusive fruit would be pretty neat, I'd gladly throw some money at that.

There seriously has to be some kind of legal issues with her. She’s the most obvious alt costume ever

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

There seriously has to be some kind of legal issues with her. She’s the most obvious alt costume ever

Not really, Bamco owns her nowadays. The only obstacle is whether they're willing to remain in Namco arcade land forever, as far as Bamco content goes.

Granted, for a time Bamco did try to phase out everything to just focus on Pac-Man and the ghosts, but still...

 

[GillyGrime]

There seriously has to be some kind of legal issues with her. She’s the most obvious alt costume ever

Can they just call it "Pacman in drag" as a loophole around it?

I have a special place in my heart for Mrs Pacman as her cabinet was at my local arcade.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Again, Midway stopped existing and Bamco got her rights. They simply gutted out Pac's extended universe after the mid-00s, for some weird reason.

And yet thought that Ghostly Adventures was a good idea.

 

[GillyGrime]

Again, Midway stopped existing and Bamco got her rights. They simply gutted out Pac's extended universe after the mid-00s, for some weird reason.

And yet thought that Ghostly Adventures was a good idea.

Thank God Sakurai knew better than to use that abomination of a design.

 

[BZocky]

Again, Midway stopped existing and Bamco got her rights. They simply gutted out Pac's extended universe after the mid-00s, for some weird reason.

And yet thought that Ghostly Adventures was a good idea.

But they still re-release the Ms. Pac-Man arcade game as much as the original Pac-Man...

 

[EarlTamm]

A vivid dream I had involved me witnessing a fight between the Square-Enix Seven, only for some white-haired sword-wielding figure to unexpectedly enter the fight and solo all seven. I couldn't make out the figure but I thought it was either MGRR's Raiden, Father Nier, Brother Nier, Dante, Vergil, Nero, or 2B. I think reading up on Metal Gear, Nier, and Drakengard and getting hyped for Devil May Cry 5 got to my head. It wasn't the best dream to have as a Geno fan.

2B would fit as a Square character, though I don't know if she could solo all of those characters. Did Geno at least last a good while?

 

[Ze Diglett]

There seriously has to be some kind of legal issues with her. She’s the most obvious alt costume ever

Even if there are legal troubles surrounding her inclusion, literally just slap a bow on one of PAC-MAN's alts and you're basically covered. It'd make his set of costumes a lot less lame for sure.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

But they still re-release the Ms. Pac-Man arcade game as much as the original Pac-Man...

It's a start, at least.

Even if there are legal troubles surrounding her inclusion, literally just slap a bow on one of PAC-MAN's alts and you're basically covered. It'd make his set of costumes a lot less lame for sure.

What legal issues can there even be? THEY. OWN. HER.

The only reason they wouldn't use her in anything beyond re-releases of her game anymore is because she wasn't made by Japanese creators (and we all know how they prefer to use stuff they made themselves), so suddenly most of the current Bamco people are hesitant to use her.

But enough about that, has there been visual proof of the dummy slots shown yet?

 

[BZL8]

2B would fit as a Square character, though I don't know if she could solo all of those characters. Did Geno at least last a good while?

I am not 100% sure the figure was 2B. Like I said, it could have been any of other characters that I listed (Raiden, Dante, Vergil, Nier,...), or maybe even a character I didn't even know. At least Geno was the last one standing, if I remember (though it could have been Sora). The fight once the unknown figure jumped in happened pretty fast, as I recall.

If somehow one of the challenger packs ends up including a white-haired sword-wielder, then this will be some crazy "Dreaming Of Things To Come" shenanigans.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I don't see a DLC Fighter pass focused on Echoes but I see a bunch of Echos being sold separately. If not, an Echoe Pack would be neat.

At the same time, and don't take me wrong here, but I don't see Ms Pacman happening, isn't she just Pacman with a ribbon? I woudn't pay for that, I think echoes need to have at least, something interesting or at least being heavily requested characters.
Like Chrome for instance.

I'd eat my words if Ms Pacman is more than Pacman with a ribbon but, since I don't know much about it, meh, you know how it's.

 

[TreeBranch]

I don't see a DLC Fighter pass focused on Echoes but I see a bunch of Echos being sold separately. If not, an Echoe Pack would be neat.

At the same time, and don't take me wrong here, but I don't see Ms Pacman happening, isn't she just Pacman with a ribbon? I woudn't pay for that, I think echoes need to have at least, something interesting or at least being heavily requested characters.
Like Chrome for instance.

I'd eat my words if Ms Pacman is more than Pacman with a ribbon but, since I don't know much about it, meh, you know how it's.

Hey, she has eyelashes too! (And sometimes lipstick and different shoes). Seriously though, you make good points. She just really needs to be an alt. That idea about having different fruit was good though

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I feel like ten might be pushing it; keep in mind that two of the DLC characters in Smash 4 were semi-clones (or at least heavily based on a character that was already in the base game), while one of the five unique characters was a veteran, which would (in all likelihood) make the creation process much easier.

I'm aware that 10 is pushing it, but you can't forget that this is practically the most sold Switch and Smash Brothers game to date, and it's probably going to reach over 20 million sales; in other words, it's a success and there's no doubt that more DLC means more money for Nintendo. A lot of people bought all the DLC for Smash 3DS/Wii U: casual fans, hardcore fans, haters who weren't even pleased with the DLC, and Smash pros. It'd be surprising if there were only five DLC characters. Even if there are people who aren't satisfied with the DLC, there will still be others buying it. Once the five DLC characters are done, there will be fans wanting more.

This is the ULTIMATE Smash Brothers, there's definitely going to be more, and we aren't going to be getting another Smash game until 6-10 more years, well, possibly at least 10 years, according to Sakurai. The first five DLC characters and another five DLC characters should last until 2022, which is about 3-4 years right there and should be enough to please everybody until the next Smash game; this also seems like the fair amount for the rest of the Switch's life span.

 

[Deleted member]

I am not 100% sure the figure was 2B. Like I said, it could have been any of other characters that I listed (Raiden, Dante, Vergil, Nier,...), or maybe even a character I didn't even know. At least Geno was the last one standing, if I remember (though it could have been Sora). The fight once the unknown figure jumped in happened pretty fast, as I recall.

If somehow one of the challenger packs ends up including a white-haired sword-wielder, then this will be some crazy "Dreaming Of Things To Come" shenanigans.

It's gonna be the Sith

 

[EarlTamm]

It's gonna be the Sith

Sith? I doubt we are going to go Soul Calibur IV.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Sith? I doubt we are going to go Soul Calibur IV.

Legit came up with a Smash moveset for Darth Vader years ago. A Slow-moving, heavyweight zoner with disjoined hitboxes on decently fast attacks bolstered by mid-to-long range command grabs that come off as projectiles. Frightening in the right hands, IMO.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hey, she has eyelashes too! (And sometimes lipstick and different shoes). Seriously though, you make good points. She just really needs to be an alt. That idea about having different fruit was good though

Bamco are too lazy/modest/money-conscious to allow putting her in as an alt, and honestly, she deserves better than that anyway.

Not that it's too likely they'll put her in this time, but for Pac's sake, at least give her a spirit when you can clearly see her in the Pac-Land stage!

Sith? I doubt we are going to go Soul Calibur IV.

And this is exhibit A as to why a fighting game series shouldn't change its rules for guest inclusions too often.

I'm aware that 10 is pushing it, but you can't forget that this is practically the most sold Switch and Smash Brothers game to date, and it's probably going to reach over 20 million sales; in other words, it's a success and there's no doubt that more DLC means more money for Nintendo. A lot of people bought all the DLC for Smash 3DS/Wii U: casual fans, hardcore fans, haters who weren't even pleased with the DLC, and Smash pros. It'd be surprising if there were only five DLC characters. Even if there are people who aren't satisfied with the DLC, there will still be others buying it. Once the five DLC characters are done, there will be fans wanting more.

This is the ULTIMATE Smash Brothers, there's definitely going to be more, and we aren't going to be getting another Smash game until 6-10 more years, well, possibly at least 10 years, according to Sakurai. The first five DLC characters and another five DLC characters should last until 2022, which is about 3-4 years right there and should be enough to please everybody until the next Smash game; this also seems like the fair amount for the rest of the Switch's life span.

Adding to that, 4 came out near the twilight years of the 3DS, Ultimate is at the relative infancy of the Switch.

 

[6eyondthegrave]

I'm aware that 10 is pushing it, but you can't forget that this is practically the most sold Switch and Smash Brothers game to date, and it's probably going to reach over 20 million sales; in other words, it's a success and there's no doubt that more DLC means more money for Nintendo. A lot of people bought all the DLC for Smash 3DS/Wii U: casual fans, hardcore fans, haters who weren't even pleased with the DLC, and Smash pros. It'd be surprising if there were only five DLC characters. Even if there are people who aren't satisfied with the DLC, there will still be others buying it. Once the five DLC characters are done, there will be fans wanting more.

This is the ULTIMATE Smash Brothers, there's definitely going to be more, and we aren't going to be getting another Smash game until 6-10 more years, well, possibly at least 10 years, according to Sakurai. The first five DLC characters and another five DLC characters should last until 2022, which is about 3-4 years right there and should be enough to please everybody until the next Smash game; this also seems like the fair amount for the rest of the Switch's life span.

Yeah honestly, I'm super ok if they kept expanding the Ultimate Game! Because if a sequel would come out, a lot of 3rd party characters may be omitted.

 

[Deleted member]

And this is exhibit A as to why a fighting game series shouldn't change its rules for guest inclusions too often.

I disagree. Star Wars was the best part of Soul Calibur 4.

 

[EarlTamm]

I disagree. Star Wars was the best part of Soul Calibur 4.

I haven't even played the game and I agree with this statement.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Smash Bros Ultimate x Star Wars

Challenger Pack #5