Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

For the SNES Mini we got the unreleased Star Fox 2 which, is kind of a beta version of Star Fox 64. Imagine if we got EB64 (beta version of Mother 3) or Ura Zelda on the N64 Mini, that would be insane. It would be a dream came true for us major N64 fans if either of those two unreleased titles were to be on the N64 Mini.



Lmao! If only they knew what was coming.

Oh my god, URA Zelda. Given we know for a fact that Master Quest isn't entirely what URA Zelda would have been (no brand-new dungeons, no new side quests, no new features, just harder existing dungeons), despite what we were told, I would scream if we could get URA Zelda as it was always meant to be. I sincerely doubt it would happen, but that is like... the dream right there.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Whoa, you guys need to slow down for a minute, because you are missing a key issue here: individuality. Uniqueness, if you will, something that people are running over one another to grasp a hold of nowadays.

Yes, there are only so many ways you can use a sword, and while Sakurai did admit Brawlers can be a bit generic as well, there are more ways for you to attack someone with your body than with a sword: close-fist attacks, open-hand attacks, multitudes of kicks, headbutts, shoulder-checks, shoulder charge, running attacks, elbow attacks, knees, grappling and throws, etc etc etc. The only reason Sakurai finds this to be a bit generic is that most of the characters in Smash use hand-to-hand combat and he's gone through a lot of what is available...but with a sword user? You swipe your sword in different directions and you stab with it, anything else is either flourish (like parrying, jabbing them with the hilt, etc) and would be based off character experience and personality or requires a bigger or smaller sword (fencing, two-handed, etc). Being focused on a sword is way more limited in terms of moveset, but the idea in RL is that you now have the advantage of wielding a weapon that can kill with a single strike instead of dealing blunt damage with your body...that doesn't really translate into Smash though.

Robin was a combo of both limited magic usage and wielding a sword a smidge differently from the others. Shulk was our first Xenoblade rep and he brought something new to the table: augmenting his base moveset with temporary buffs. Cloud was highly requested and brought us something unique: having a bigger sword (so more range and damage) but still being rather nimble (unlike Ike) while also having a projectile and a unique meter that enhances his specials and gives him a brand new one that is very strong. Corrin was also unique: having a pinning mechanic and even more range, having a projectile unlike and any other swordwielder before him/her, and having the Dragonblood powers to have unique normals and aerials unlike other swordwielders.

Now you are trying to say that 'there cannot be hate for swordwielders because people want X character and they wield a sword, so...' and that would be a sound argument...until you look at the requested characters.

I know little about Rex or XBC2 but I did see some gameplay when they focused on it for forever at an Nintendo Treehouse on the E3 showfloor one year, and from what I recall I believe Rex has a lot of unique spells or physical arts to pull from, as well as possibly having him use different Blades. I also haven't played Golden Sun, but I can tell you right now from what I've heard from our brothers of other mothers in the Isaac support thread that he is very unique. Isaac is a Venus Adept, which comes with a whole slew of spells and abilities, and his AT doesn't even have him attack with his sword and only has him use one of his many powers at his disposal, meaning that Isaac has plenty of room to be unique. Lloyd Irving from the Tales Of would also be unique, as he apparently can perform berserker feats and he dualwields, which is something new to Smash I believe.

Now, I've played the majority of the KH games, certainly each any every one with Sora in it, so let me tell you that not a single person who complains about swordwielders can complain about Sora...the dude is absolutely nuts! Even in his younger, less crazy days in KH1 he was still a bit of a combat acrobat. Back then he had offensive and defensive magic as well as utility with Cure and Stop, physical and magical arts with Sonic Blade, Zantetsuken, Strike Raid, Ars Arcanum and my fav Ragnarok. He can jump pretty high, glide around, and already has a dodge roll, and then he could also summon aid from others with his Summonings. Entering KH2 and he just gets more to work with: he gets more combo finishers that explode with magical energy and are AoE, he can stay in the air for a long time simply by attacking and leaving damaging trails of magical essence from his attacks, gains access to more kinds of magic, different Summons, and then he also gets access to Drive forms which completely change up his fighting style. He can become more magic and projectile based, more physical and combo based and fight with two keyblades, and in his Final Form he can control keyblades magically and have them attack at his will with ridiculous attacks. In DDD they introduce flowmotion, which allows him to do crazy spinning attacks and dash far and basically just do crazy magical parkour movement and attacks, and in KH3 he can transform his keyblades into different forms to attack with different weapons with different properties as well as using the shotlock which allows him to unleash an attack that has invulnerability during it's duration and is more effective the longer his focuses on the enemy. He can also use this for Air Stepping which allows him to move through falling debris and other difficult terrain extremely fast as well as close in on an enemy and barrage them, and of course he gains access to different kinds of magic and summons here too.

See, these characters are requested because they are loved AND they have the opportunity to bring crazy unique things to Smash. You know who isn't requested nearly as much and doesn't have anything super crazy to bring to Smash? Erdrick. He's just your average JRPG protag with average moves from what I have gathered. People argue he can use other tools like boomerangs...but Link does that. People argue he can use magic, but Robin does that already and the other above have more unique uses of magic or abilities than Erdrick. Being short and fast would be nothing new, and if they put him in armor and made him a heavy hitter we already have Ike and now partially Ganondorf.

What could Erdrick truly bring that would make him unique enough to outweigh the outcry of his inclusion being so un-requested and unknown in the West?


Hmm, I'm hoping there is some truth to this, mainly so we can see Erdrick's chances fade into nothing. I get a few groups of people really want him, but he really would be one of the worst choices to pick for so many reasons. Nintendo needs to keep on the ball with Smash.

I mean, even within the DQ fanbase you have more people wanting any other character than Erdrick. Especially given that DQ crossovers typically leave out the Heroes and have the secondary characters as recurrers instead.

 

[Tetrin]

Guys I think I just faced a hacker. My controls were delayed by an entire second for this game only and their deaths weren't counted at all. My recovery was only air dodging and I lost like 200k GSP because of this match.

In case anyone's curious, their name was ShadowMage.

 

[GoodGrief741]

In general, how would we all feel if someone from Three Houses was put in the game?

If the character joins as the last DLC character (so, like half a year after FE: TH releases) and it’s a good character that people like, I’m cool with it.

If not, I’ll be miffed but still buy probably.

"Okay, but he better be able to work Pokémon Trainer style with his three students, otherwise, what's even the point?".

That actually sounds kinda awesome.

Definitely not SMRPG, given the fact that it's a game that was officially cancelled. Might be the F-Zero Wii U game that went nowhere (please god please) or Metroid: Dread. SMRPG2 would have happened if Square hadn't been a problem, but it was never cancelled. It was just officially made into Paper Mario. That means SMRPG2 wouldn't be it either.

I'm very, veeeeeery curious, though.

Metroid Dread pls.

What could Erdrick truly bring that would make him unique enough to outweigh the outcry of his inclusion being so un-requested and unknown in the West?

Tons of **** I’m tired of repeating, so let’s just say there’s no reason for him not to be unique enough.

 

[Deleted member]

For the SNES Mini we got the unreleased Star Fox 2 which, is kind of a beta version of Star Fox 64. Imagine if we got EB64 (beta version of Mother 3) or Ura Zelda on the N64 Mini, that would be insane. It would be a dream came true for us major N64 fans if either of those two unreleased titles were to be on the N64 Mini.



Lmao! If only they knew what was coming.

Looked up Ura Zelda and would honestly prefer EB64 to be honest, Ura Zelda is kinda whatever it would be fine but we already have LA on the way. EB64 would play differently from Mother 3 cause one was 3D while the other was 2D which is more interesting than Zelda Ura in my opinion, I would rather buy and play EB64 than Ura.

Maybe the reason Mother 3 took so long was cause they were working on an HD EB64? Possible.

Edit: Not to mention the Story was supposed to be even Darker than the version that came out, and I'm curious how dark it really would've been since Mother 3 was already pretty dark.

 

[bardbowman]

Rumour: Nintendo reviving “dead and buried” game

Uh Oh.

When I first read that, my mind went to Donkey Kong Racing...But Mother is probably more likely.

If we weren’t already getting a Link’s Awakening remake, I’d say this might point twoards them finally making that third Oracle game.

And I mean, you could make a SMRPG2 argument, since it technically was cancelled when Square left the project, but it’d be a stretch.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Looked up Ura Zelda and would honestly prefer EB64 to be honest, Ura Zelda is kinda whatever it would be fine but we already have LA on the way. EB64 would play differently from Mother 3 cause one was 3D while the other was 2D which is more interesting than Zelda Ura in my opinion, I would rather buy and play EB64 than Ura.

Maybe the reason Mother 3 took so long was cause they were working on an HD EB64? Possible.

Edit: Not to mention the Story was supposed to be even Darker than the version that came out, and I'm curious how dark it really would've been since Mother 3 was already pretty dark.

Given how ambiguous the ending we got was, well...

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Given how ambiguous the ending we got was, well...

Spoiler

I remember hearing Porky was supposed to die in the original ending, I don't know how true that is though.

But yeah, it's possible that's what they were gonna go for before they moved development to the GBA.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I think I'll cry if it's a Mother game.

 

[Deleted member]

Though let's say it is indeed EB64, What kind of Style do y'all think they would use? Would they only finish it and release it like how it looks here? or would they update the visuals to make it look a lot cleaner and nicer?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Guys I think I just faced a hacker. My controls were delayed by an entire second for this game only and their deaths weren't counted at all. My recovery was only air dodging and I lost like 200k GSP because of this match.

In case anyone's curious, their name was ShadowMage.

I remember that happened to me a long time ago online in a THQ WWE game and I barely couldn't move and the hacker was teleporting all around the ring taunting me with the Stone Cold taunt which, is two middle fingers.

Looked up Ura Zelda and would honestly prefer EB64 to be honest, Ura Zelda is kinda whatever it would be fine but we already have LA on the way. EB64 would play differently from Mother 3 cause one was 3D while the other was 2D which is more interesting than Zelda Ura in my opinion, I would rather buy and play EB64 than Ura.

Maybe the reason Mother 3 took so long was cause they were working on an HD EB64? Possible.

Edit: Not to mention the Story was supposed to be even Darker than the version that came out, and I'm curious how dark it really would've been since Mother 3 was already pretty dark.

I agree, I prefer to see EB64 over Ura Zelda as well. But I would love to see Ura Zelda almost as much.

Though let's say it is indeed EB64, What kind of Style do y'all think they would use? Would they only finish it and release it like how it looks here? or would they update the visuals to make it look a lot cleaner and nicer?

I say they would keep it the same like with Star Fox 2.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I'll cry if it's a Mother game.

I will cry as many rivers as there are stages in Smash Ultimate after all the DLC is released if SMRPG and the Mother series get remade this year

 

[Tetrin]

How little integrity must one have to run away when it's a +1 -1 lead when there's 20 seconds left?

 

[Deleted member]

How little integrity must one have to run away when it's a +1 -1 lead when there's 20 seconds left?

As much integrity as Square Enix.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I have another cancelled game to throw out, and it'd make sense because of Microsoft's new friendship with Nintendo:

Who the hell would expect the kid-friendly version of Conker's Bad Fur day to make a reappearance? The game was near completion and Rare has shown recently that they still have the game.

But I don't know, I also really want EB64, and Banjo-Threeie would be awesome to see as well, if the rumor is true that is.

 

[HolyKnight]

My money is on banjo threeie or scalebound. Though I really wish it was super mario rpg2.

 

[Tetrin]

As much integrity as Square Enix.

And these are largely people in the 3 millions. Even when there's five seconds left, I stay to at least make it a fair fight.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I just wish they would announce the character already. Just a splash screen.

We still haven't seen Joker's splash screen! I hope to see it soon!

My guess is it's going to be something like:

JOKER
STEALS THE SHOW !

 

[MissingGlitch]

Confirmation bias tells me it's Banjo-Threeie

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

My money is on banjo threeie or scalebound. Though I really wish it was super mario rpg2.

Kinda doubt it is Scalebound, seeing as Platinum have their hands full with Bayo 3 and Astral Chain.

 

[Deleted member]

My money is still on EB64, Probably cause I want it so bad but also cause it would make sense as that COULD be a reason as for why we've been hearing stuff about Mother 3 yet it hasn't appeared, cause they were working on EB64 plus why localize Mother 3 when you can go one step further? I personally would take that one step further.

but if it isn't EB64 it might Banjo-Threeie, I would take either to be honest.

 

[The Anigriffin]

With Link's Awakening being in an EarthBoundish style I could maybe see Mother 3 being put out in that style as well as tying it to EB64 somehow.

Or it could just be plain ole Mother 3 which fits. I dunno.

 

[Deleted member]

After the LA remake was announced, my gut feeling has been that the Mother series will be remade in a similar style (either the same way, or more clay like), and that it would be announced at E3.

I hope my gut feeling is true

 

[TheCJBrine]

Mother 3 with a slice of SMRPG.

or it's F-Zero.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My money is on banjo threeie or scalebound. Though I really wish it was super mario rpg2.

If it’s Scalebound Platinum might as well just become a second-party dev.

(Which would be awesome, those guys are like Japanese CDPR)

 

[Datboigeno]

And Sakurai never said why beyond they're harder to work with, and the most frequent sword users that made it into Smash were Fire Emblem characters. Fathom an intuitive guess. I can't see how Sakurai's word on the subject is an argument against sword users when
1) There might be only so many ways you can swing a sword, but there are also so many ways you can punch someone too. The difference is in what other tools are at their hand. If they're differentiated beyond being a clone, they're different. Challenge to differentiate does not mean they are the same. The fact that Sakurai says that he can differentiate them means they are inherently different from another as long as they aren't a clone. Therefore, it's a concession that being a sword fighter is meaningless.
2) People want Isaac. Popularity does not negate how a sword user is still a sword user. I can't assume you want Isaac in, but I can assume people who want Isaac in are never thinking about how he uses a sword. They're thinking about what he can do beyond the sword, and he can do a lot. So can any Dragon Quest hero and DQ is more recognizable than Golden Sun when we look outside of the Smash Bubble, especially if Nintendo and Square further their DQ promotion throughout the year.

It's a superficial argument spawned out of indifference toward a series that could apply to literally any character, even Geno. Questioning the unique play style just by looking at a character's design is not an argument specific to Erdrick. Erdrick is just currently the popular target because a lot is seemingly at stake right now.

Regarding 1: Ehhhhh I fell like you're twisting his words around here. He's flat out saying that sword users are a challenge to differentiate from one another. The key is the fact that he said it's a challenge. As in something that is difficult to do. And even besides this quote he's even said one of his main goals when choosing characters is to have them do things no other character on the roster is currently doing. You're saying it's meaningless when he's literally saying it's a challenge and he wishes protagonists would use axes (and probably any other weapon) because it would break things up. Like you're completely disregarding the point of his statement lol

Regarding 2: People want Isaac, true. But I don't think anyone who had been campaigning for Isaac was looking at him as a predominant sword user on the level of Shulk or Cloud you are correct. And judging from how he was implemented as an AT I don't really see Sakurai going that route either. But the main difference between Isaac and Erdrick is that people actually want Isaac.

"DQ is more recognizable than Golden Sun when we look outside of the Smash Bubble, especially if Nintendo and Square further their DQ promotion throughout the year. "

Ehhhh I think the correlation between DQ's Japanese popularity and Erdrick's popularity vs Golden Sun's just because DQ is popular in Japan to somehow rationalize people being satisfied with Erdrick is a big stretch. Internationally people want Isaac for Smash not DQ and definitely not Erdrick and that's the main point here. It really doesn't matter how much companies are trying to make fetch happen in DQ's case. Being recognizable means nothing. Mickey Mouse is more recognizable than Isaac or Erdrick but that doesn't mean that people are requesting him for Smash or would be hyped if he were revealed for Smash as much as they'd be hyped for Isaac. If the last few decades have shown us anything it's that people in the states largely do not give a **** about DQ or Erdrick. A few more months of promotion by Nintendo isn't going to heavily change that or make Erdrick any more appetizing to people sick of anime swordsmen if he's hypothetically revealed for Smash and has some magic abilities. People largely give Isaac a pass because he's someone they actually want and has abilities that make him less of a predominant sword user than either Shulk or Cloud for example. Even then I've still seen plenty of people complain about him being an anime swordsman. Erdrick on the other has access to magic abilities in-game, but is anything in his arsenal really going to differentiate him from the magic users already in Smash like Robin or Zelda in the way Isaac would be differentiated with his Earth magic?

"It's a superficial argument spawned out of indifference toward a series that could apply to literally any character, even Geno."

I mean if you want to split hairs for the sake of trying to brush off this widely held criticism as "superficial" for the sake of bringing in an animu sword character no one asked for then sure I bet you could come up with a superficial argument against Geno in the Geno thread. Good luck.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Mother 3 with a slice of SMRPG.

or it's F-Zero.

Did Nintendo ever even say why they decided to drop F-Zero?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Did Nintendo ever even say why they decided to drop F-Zero?

I dunno; I just thought they ran out of ideas for the franchise, at least that's what I remember.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Did Nintendo ever even say why they decided to drop F-Zero?

Miyamoto had more or less said "ran out of ideas to keep the series fresh".

Which, if he had any involvement like with SF Zero, would probably not go well.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I dunno; I just thought they ran out of ideas for the franchise, at least that's what I remember.

Ideas? My F-Zero knowledge is rather limited, but I thought they were just supposed to be high-speed racing games. If Nintendo can pump out Mario Kart with anti-gravity and creative tracks, I don't see why ideas for F-Zero are impossible to think of.

 

[Datboigeno]

Miyamoto had more or less said "ran out of ideas to keep the series fresh".

Which, if he had any involvement like with SF Zero, would probably not go well.

It's statements like this that have really soured my view of Miyamoto. Like, really, you've released how many 2D sidescrolling Mario games over the past 20 years yet after 3 main F-Zero games (not counting the portable ones) your stance is "Nah this is stale". It just blows my mind.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

It's statements like this that have really soured my view of Miyamoto. Like, really, you've released how many 2D sidescrolling Mario games over the past 20 years yet after 3 F-Zero games your stance is "Nah this is stale". It just blows my mind.

EXACTLY! Nintendo is one of the most creative gaming companies out there, but absolutely nobody can come up with an idea for a new F-Zero game? It's not like they are these games that require a complex and intricate storyline, they're racing games!

 

[Deleted member]

I've learned a lot about Miyamoto over the past few months by living in this thread and...

*tsk, tsk, tsk*

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I've learned a lot about Miyamoto over the past few months by living in this thread and...

*tsk, tsk, tsk*

Someone needs to fill me in. What's wrong with Miyamoto? Thought he was like the God of Gaming or some other prestigious title... Thought everyone bowed down to him!

 

[Ovaltine]

EXACTLY! Nintendo is one of the most creative gaming companies out there, but absolutely nobody can come up with an idea for a new F-Zero game? It's not like they are these games that require a complex and intricate storyline, they're racing games!

There are so many things that can be done with F-Zero that haven't been. Like, do a more expansive story mode with more adventure between the races (kinda like Diddy Kong Racing?), especially since F-Zero's environments are so unique and futuristic. Be able to make customized carts and characters. Custom tracks. Vehicle upgrades. Vehicle transformations could even work if done correctly and if we keep the anti-gravity nature of F-Zero in check. Give Captain Falcon sunglasses beneath his sunglasses, I don't know! Do something.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

EXACTLY! Nintendo is one of the most creative gaming companies out there, but absolutely nobody can come up with an idea for a new F-Zero game? It's not like they are these games that require a complex and intricate storyline, they're racing games!

Hell, I don't see how the F-Zero imitators can be seen as adequate substitutes, they have nothing but cold, empty machines. Where are the larger than life personalities? Even Wipeout stopped having pilots after the first game or so.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone needs to fill me in. What's wrong with Miyamoto? Thought he was like the God of Gaming or some other prestigious title... Thought everyone bowed down to him!

Well, there's F-Zero, his hatred towards using the Mario RPG characters more, how he doesn't really try much new with the Mario games...and yeah, pretty much that

 

[TheBeastHimself]

There are so many things that can be done with F-Zero that haven't been. Like, do a more expansive story mode with more adventure between the races (kinda like Diddy Kong Racing?), especially since F-Zero's environments are so unique and futuristic. Be able to make customized carts and characters. Custom tracks. Vehicle upgrades. Vehicle transformations could even work if done correctly and if we keep the anti-gravity nature of F-Zero in check. Give Captain Falcon sunglasses beneath his sunglasses, I don't know! Do something.

Woah woah woah, hold your horses! Those ideas are way too complex and creative for Nintendo to think up, it's a stale franchise after all!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, there's F-Zero, his hatred towards using the Mario RPG characters more, how he doesn't really try much new with the Mario games...and yeah, pretty much that

And he prefers any plot that's not more complex than "Bowser took Peach, rescue her".

Really though, I wonder what's taking so long for Koizumi to succeed him, at least he's got gameplay ideas.

 

[Deleted member]

And he prefers any plot that's not more complex than "Bowser took Peach, rescue her".

Really though, I wonder what's taking so long for Koizumi to succeed him, at least he's got gameplay ideas.

This is another reason Iwata's death pains me more :'(