Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MissingGlitch]

But you know what was an important music addition? Pop Fashion Show from Style Savvy Trendsetters. Super Mario RPG? Whats that?

 

[Deleted member]

Sums up what I would say on the matter personally. I want Geno, Erdrick, Sephiroth, and Sora. Hell I would be very happy with Neku and Chrono even if I think they will never happen.

Also your profile pic is cute.

On another topic, what music besides beware the forest mushrooms would you guys want with Geno?

Personally, I'm hoping for remixes of any fight theme, town theme, or the overworld themes.

 

[Tetrin]

But you know what was an important music addition? Pop Fashion Show from Style Savvy Trendsetters. Super Mario RPG? Whats that?

Yeah, actually it is. Style Savvy sold great for only having one installment and the music was easy to get a hold of.

 

[Deleted member]

There's no real argument. Absence of music really means nothing over Geno's chances so speculating on why Yoko hasn't given us rights is more unproductive than anything. Add how Mushroom Forest wasn't even added to the game for Geno in Smash 4 and there's nothing to really hope for on this topic.

You are missing my point. They got the rights to SMRPG music, even if it wasn't added to the game. They still got the rights to use it, Yoko is composing music for the base game, so there isn't any reason to hold it back

????????

How is it invalid? There’s much more incentive to including music from relevant games than obscure ones, not to mention one from nearly 25 years ago.

Relevancy has nothing to do with this. What matters is that Yoko has already allowed the use of SMRPG music, even if just a trailer, and she has already composed music for the base game of Ultimate.

If anything had to do with relevancy, Geno wouldn't be a legendary spirit

 

[MissingGlitch]

Is relevancy really an excuse still when a large amount of Smash characters are only relevant because they are in Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

You are missing my point. They get the rights to SMRPG music, even if it wasn't added to the game. They still got the rights to use it, Yoko is composing music for the base game, so there isn't any reason to hold it back

Yoko is composing music but how is that similar to having all rights to her work?

 

[Deleted member]

Yoko is composing music but how is that similar to having all rights to her work?

The music she composed is in the base game. They got the rights to her SF music, and they got the rights to a SMRPG track in Smash 4. Again, there isn't any reason to hold it back. If it were because she wasn't paid for it, SF music wouldn't be in the base game

 

[Deleted member]

The music she composed is in the base game. They got the rights to her SF music, and they got the rights to a SMRPG track in Smash 4. Again, there isn't any reason to hold it back. If it were because she wasn't paid for it, SF music wouldn't be in the base game

What real good reason should there be for adding Super Mario RPG music?

 

[shocktarts17]

The music she composed is in the base game. They got the rights to her SF music, and they got the rights to a SMRPG track in Smash 4. Again, there isn't any reason to hold it back. If it were because she wasn't paid for it, SF music wouldn't be in the base game

But Street Fighter has two fighters in the game, that's the reason to add it. And Mario has tons of music already so the reason not to add Super Mario RPG music is either they don't like it or don't see it as relevant.

 

[Tetrin]

Relevancy has nothing to do with this. What matters is that Yoko has already allowed the use of SMRPG music, even if just a trailer, and she has already composed music for the base game of Ultimate.

If anything had to do with relevancy, Geno wouldn't be a legendary spirit

Geno being a spirit was almost definitely a matter of fanservice, that's why. I don't think Geno would even be a spirit had it not been for our efforts through the years.

She allowed the use over 3 years ago, and since then, Square could have gotten much more easily ticked off about it for whatever reason. Yoko composed music (like, a song) that I'd daresay was essential in the Street Fighter additions since it was Ryu's Stage theme, and he's a playable character, unlike Geno.

 

[MissingGlitch]

What real good reason should there be for adding Super Mario RPG music?

I can't think of any other important Mario games that had their music omitted (And yes I am not including stuff like Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine). SMRPG is still a well known Mario game. Enough for Nintendo to try and get the rights to use it on the SNES Mini, to add SMRPG stickers, tweeted about the game a handful of times and to add the Geno costume to Smash U/3DS. Nintendo knows the popularity of that game. So it's strange for it to be left out.

 

[Tetrin]

I can't think of any other Mario games that had their music omitted. SMRPG is still a well known Mario game. Enough for Nintendo to try and get the rights to use it on the SNES Mini, to add SMRPG stickers, and to add the Geno costume to Smash U/3DS. Nintendo knows the popularity of that game. So it's strange for it to be left out.

That's probably because any other Mario game has no relation to Square. Plus, SMRPG is really only well known for people who are at least 20; I can't tell you a single person I know (outside the Smash community) that knows the game.

Nintendo knows the popularity but the fans want the game's characters to be more relevant, not the music. If we were just barely able to squeeze Geno in the game, then it makes sense that the music wasn't bundled with him.

 

[Deleted member]

What real good reason should there be for adding Super Mario RPG music?

Geno and Mallow are spirits for Smash Ultimate, with the former being a legendary spirit.

The point of my argument is that it is weird to have Geno and Mallow as spirits, but not use SMRPG music when they got the rights to it before

But Street Fighter has two fighters in the game, that's the reason to add it. And Mario has tons of music already so the reason not to add Super Mario RPG music is either they don't like it or don't see it as relevant.

The only problem with that argument is that they got the rights to it before, and many characters who are only spirits have music with their spirit battle. Especially with Geno being a legendary spirit, it's very weird why they have been left out.

Geno being a spirit was almost definitely a matter of fanservice, that's why. I don't think Geno would even be a spirit had it not been for our efforts through the years.

She allowed the use over 3 years ago, and since then, Square could have gotten much more easily ticked off about it for whatever reason. Yoko composed music (like, a song) that I'd daresay was essential in the Street Fighter additions since it was Ryu's Stage theme, and he's a playable character, unlike Geno.

So, with fanservice, why doesn't Geno get music as well? Isaac wasn't a playable character, yet he has music. Even characters who are only spirits have music.

Square isn't the problem because I'm pretty sure Yoko owns the music, and, again, both Geno and Mallow are spirits, meaning that they got the rights to more SMRPG content than just Geno

 

[Deleted member]

I can't think of any other Mario games that had their music omitted. SMRPG is still a well known Mario game. Enough for Nintendo to try and get the rights to use it on the SNES Mini, to add SMRPG stickers, and to add the Geno costume to Smash U/3DS. Nintendo knows the popularity of that game. So it's strange for it to be left out.

Does that make its soundtrack a priority for including it in Smash Ultimate? Plus everything you listed is out of marketing nostalgia over Geno's fan campaign and not Super Mario RPG's. Furthermore, Geno himself isn't even a fighter or assist trophy in the game. I'm not singing his hopes because Nintendo and Sakurai occasionally acknowledged that he exists.

 

[Deleted member]

Does that make its soundtrack a priority for including it in Smash Ultimate? Plus everything you listed is out of marketing nostalgia over Geno's fan campaign and not Super Mario RPG's. Furthermore, Geno himself isn't even a fighter or assist trophy in the game. I'm not singing his hopes because Nintendo and Sakurai occasionally acknowledged that he exists.

Again, Geno and Mallow are spirits, with Geno being a legendary spirit. Characters who are spirits alone can also have music, so it's suspicious that there is no SMRPG music when they were able to use it before

 

[MissingGlitch]

Does that make its soundtrack a priority for including it in Smash Ultimate? Plus everything you listed is out of marketing nostalgia over Geno's fan campaign and not Super Mario RPG's. Furthermore, Geno himself isn't even a fighter or assist trophy in the game. I'm not singing his hopes because Nintendo and Sakurai occasionally acknowledged that he exists.

We have music from games people haven't thought about in years. Sure they are Nintendo owned music. But when was the last time you thought about Tank Troopers or Glory of Heracles.

 

[Deleted member]

We have music from games people haven't thought about in years. Sure they are Nintendo owned music. But when was the last time you thought about Tank Troopers or Glory of Heracles.

Again, Geno and Mallow are spirits, with Geno being a legendary spirit. Characters who are spirits alone can also have music, so it's suspicious that there is no SMRPG music when they were able to use it before

So just because is represented does not mean it has to have music. Shovel Knight doesn't have music. Fatal Frame doesn't have music. Bomberman doesn't have music. Golden Sun only has one new song from Dark Dawn and is actually owned by Nintendo. Sukapon's series has no music. Prince of Sablé's series has no music. I'm not seeing the points here. Obscure things can have music and requested things can have no music. It's weird, but MissingGlitch mentioned it before. We got StyleSavvy music before we got Super Mario RPG music.

 

[Tetrin]

So, with fanservice, why doesn't Geno get music as well? Isaac wasn't a playable character, yet he has music. Even characters who are only spirits have music.

Square isn't the problem because I'm pretty sure Yoko owns the music, and, again, both Geno and Mallow are spirits, meaning that they got the rights to more SMRPG content than just Geno

Because the fans don't rally for the music nearly as much. Isaac is first party and is an unlike comparison since Nintendo owns Golden Sun music.

And who says Square isn't the problem? Square may very well have a part to play if Yoko is so reluctant to include music from Mario RPG, and Geno being DLC is definitely not the only reason. Square might not have handed Geno over if the music got in, claiming that the music would be "enough representation".

Having one more character included isn't the biggest difference. Also, you kind of contradict yourself when you say "Nintendo got rights to SMRPG content so why not the music" but at the same time say "Yoko owns the music".

 

[MissingGlitch]

So I suppose the only way to end this is that there isn't any rhyme or reason on what music is added to the game. They just added what they felt like adding regardless of representation or relevance.

 

[Deleted member]

So I suppose the only way to end this is that there isn't any rhyme or reason on what music is added to the game. They just added what they felt like adding regardless of representation or relevance.

Pretty much.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Should we go off the same logic for Spirits? Because all my hope for one character is hanging off of placeholder values hidden in the game files for games Nintendo doesn't own.

 

[Deleted member]

So just because is represented does not mean it has to have music. Shovel Knight doesn't have music. Fatal Frame doesn't have music. Bomberman doesn't have music. Golden Sun only has the one song it got from Brawl and is actually owned by Nintendo. Sukapon's series has no music. Prince of Sablé's series has no music. I'm not seeing the points here. Obscure things can have music and requested things can have no music. It's weird, but MissingGlitch mentioned it before. We got StyleSavvy music before we got Super Mario RPG music.

But there are some that do and, again, why this is suspicious is that they got the rights to it before, and that Geno is a legendary spirit

Because the fans don't rally for the music nearly as much. Isaac is first party and is an unlike comparison since Nintendo owns Golden Sun music.

And who says Square isn't the problem? Square may very well have a part to play if Yoko is so reluctant to include music from Mario RPG, and Geno being DLC is definitely not the only reason. Square might not have handed Geno over if the music got in, claiming that the music would be "enough representation".

Having one more character included isn't the biggest difference. Also, you kind of contradict yourself when you say "Nintendo got rights to SMRPG content so why not the music" but at the same time say "Yoko owns the music".

That's not contradicting myself because I'm saying they got the rights from Yoko to use the music. You seem to misinterpret what I say.

Yoko owns the music, and she allowed the music to be used in Smash 4, so why not this game, where both Geno and Mallow are spirits, and Yoko is on the staff for the Ultimate team?

This is one of the reasons I believe that Geno is DLC. There was no music included. If there was, then Geno wouldn't be DLC. However, he appears in the base game with Mallow as well

 

[Tetrin]

So I suppose the only way to end this is that there isn't any rhyme or reason on what music is added to the game. They just added what they felt like adding regardless of representation or relevance.

There were probably reasons for it that we just don't know. Glory of Heracles and Tank troopers are first party titles, and I think music Nintendo has easy access to (first party music) is included.

That's not contradicting myself because I'm saying they got the rights from Yoko to use the music. You seem to misinterpret what I say.

Yoko owns the music, and she allowed the music to be used in Smash 4, so why not this game, where both Geno and Mallow are spirits, and Yoko is on the staff for the Ultimate team?

This is one of the reasons I believe that Geno is DLC. There was no music included. If there was, then Geno wouldn't be DLC. However, he appears in the base game with Mallow as well

And who's to say the music she included in that small trailer didn't cause an issue? Yoko may not want to spark any potential issues between herself and Square.

Mallow's inclusion is entirely irrelevant to the topic of music. They're owned by completely separate parties and saying Geno is DLC based on his inclusion as a spirit and the lack of music is dubious at best. Truth is, we don't know why the music was disregarded, but since she composed the game for Square and not Nintendo, it's safe to say they get to throw in their two cents on the matter.

Also if I don't respond for the next 5-7 hours, I have a concert

 

[Deleted member]

There were probably reasons for it that we just don't know. Glory of Heracles and Tank troopers are first party titles, and I think music Nintendo has easy access to (first party music) is included.

But this means that relevance isn't important to why there is or isn't music

 

[Datboigeno]

The argument for relevancy with music is really silly considering some of the deep deep cuts they've included in SSBU's soundtrack. Especially in relation to how popular SMRPG itself and its soundtrack is with Nintendo's fans. There's probably a solid explanation as to why there's no SMRPG songs in the game but relevancy isn't it.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I just want a SE rep to be announced as soon as possible at this point. So at least if it isn't Geno I wouldn't have to have hope anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

But there are some that do

And there are many that don't. Plus I would argue assist trophies rank way higher than any spirit. Shovel Knight, Bomberman, and obscure first party assist trophies don't have new music despite being requested frequently. And your argument for rights of music would apply if Beware the Forest Mushrooms actually was in Smash 4. As of now, no Super Mario RPG music ever made it into a Smash Bros title. Plus they can get rights for a character, like how they got rights for Rayman or Heihachi, but I'm not using that as an argument for their credibility to get music. A lot of characters deserve music and there are many opportunities for them to have music. Does not mean they will always get music.

 

[Deleted member]

I will always remain hopeful for Geno.

I ain't givin' up till Geno gets in!

@Bolderousness Again, there are still some that do. And, they still got the rights to the SMRPG music.

Did Rayman get music in Smash 4?

 

[MissingGlitch]

You can only say "Hey maybe next game" for so long before it starts to mean nothing. Trust me, I've been saying it for years with Banjo. And there is a good chance it's going to be Steve instead. Having hopes keeps crushing me lol.

 

[Tetrin]

But this means that relevance isn't important to why there is or isn't music

Glory of Heracles and Super Mario RPG are separate cases. One is first party and one isn't at all. You could argue games like Pandora's Tower don't get music in, and I guess it's just random inclusions in the end. But in the context of SMRPG music, relevance plays much more of a role than it does for first parties.

 

[Deleted member]

Glory of Heracles and Super Mario RPG are separate cases. One is first party and one isn't at all. You could argue games like Pandora's Tower don't get music in, and I guess it's just random inclusions in the end. But in the context of SMRPG music, relevance plays much more of a role than it does for first parties.

Once again, they got the rights to SMRPG music in Smash 4, and Geno is a legendary spirit

 

[Deleted member]

@Bolderousness Again, there are still some that do.

Then that means who gets music is not because of their notoriety.

I will always remain hopeful for Geno.

I ain't givin' up till Geno gets in!

@BolderousnessDid Rayman get music in Smash 4?

Neither did Geno. Again, and if I have to say this one more time I'm ducking out, the trailer playing music from Super Mario RPG does not mean they got rights to use it in the actual game that we're debating over.

 

[Looma]

I think what is being said here is that it makes sense to hold out on putting SMRPG music in the base game when it's better suited being bundled with a certain DLC character that is directly related to it, a DLC character that's advertised to come with a stage and music.

The absence could just mean nothing, but it could also be something. (This isn't me vouching for the music argument being airtight. do not presume please and thank you)

 

[MissingGlitch]

Ubisoft is a really really odd case. It seems like they really want to support Smash. Ubisoft and Nintendo have a good relationship right now. But all they seem to get in Smash is a Trophy in Smash 4 and a few images in Ultimate. I really don't know where they stand.

 

[Deleted member]

I think what is being said here is that it makes sense to hold out on putting SMRPG music in the base game when it's better suited being bundled with a certain DLC character that is directly related to it, a DLC character that's advertised to come with a stage and music.

The absence could just mean nothing, but it could also be something.

Which is something I considered. It's not like Geno is still impossible, but this is not the hill I'll die on when you can make many cases similar to this for other characters represented in Smash Bros. E.G. Final Fantasy.

 

[Deleted member]

Then that means who gets music is not because of their notoriety.


Neither did Geno. Again, and if I have to say this one more time I'm ducking out, the trailer playing music from Super Mario RPG does not mean they got rights to use it in the actual game that we're debating over.

Again, in order to use the music, you have to have the rights to it. When they used the music, they had the rights to it, no matter if it was added to the game or just used in a trailer, they got the rights to it.

You didn't answer my question btw. Did Rayman have any music in Smash 4, either added to the game or just used in trailer? Just answer yes or no, don't add anything along with it

 

[Deleted member]

Again, in order to use the music, you have to have the rights to it. When they used the music, they had the rights to it, no matter if it was added to the game or just used in a trailer, they got the rights to it.

You didn't answer my question btw. Did Rayman have any music in Smash 4, either added to the game or just used in trailer? Just answer yes or no, don't add anything along with it

In order to use the music for the trailer, they had to get rights to use the music for the trailer. You don't have universal rights just because you used it for a specific purpose. Otherwise, Nintendo would have rights to use Beware the Forest Mushrooms in any other game they see fit, which is definitely a no-no. Plus if that song really meant a damn to Sakurai, we would have got it actually in Smash 4: The Game. Your taking a mile from an inch here.

And Rayman did not get music in Smash 4. And Smash 4 is a video game. Not a blasted trailer. If you understand this, then answer my question. Did Geno get music in Smash 4?

 

[MissingGlitch]

It is possible to pay for a one time use license for a song. Which is more then likely what happened with both Cloud's reveal trailer and Geno's costume reveal trailer. Which I would imagine is so much cheaper then a multiuse license.

 

[Deleted member]

In order to use the music for the trailer, they had to get rights to use the music for the trailer. You don't have universal rights just because you used it for a specific purpose. Otherwise, Nintendo would have rights to use Beware the Forest Mushrooms in any other game they see fit, which is definitely a no-no. Plus if that song really meant a damn to Sakurai, we would have got it actually in Smash 4: The Game. Your taking a mile from an inch here.

And Rayman did not get music in Smash 4. And Smash 4 is a video game. Not a blasted trailer. If you understand this, then answer my question. Did Geno get music in Smash 4?

Once again, they still got the rights to the music, and there isn't any reason to hold it back.

The difference between Rayman and Geno is that Rayman didn't get any music, in game or trailer. Geno got music in the trailer. That is the difference here.

No, Geno didn't get music in the game. Again though, he did get the SMRPG music track to use for his trailer.

It's fine if you don't believe it means anything, and I think we should just agree to disagree here.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I think the main issue is we are arguing over something we don't have enough information to make a clear argument on. All we know is that we have the composer of Super Mario RPG already on the Smash team and we have Super Mario RPG spirits. We don't know if there is a weird agreement with Square not to use the music, we don't know if its being held back for Geno as a DLC character, and we don't know if its because she doesn't want any SMRPG music in Ultimate at all. Arguing about this more is just gonna keep us going in circles.