Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[LiquidBoxcutter]

Recently, I have been having some dark thoughts lately regarding Geno. I keep thinking about the Mii costume, and I have been wondering if Sakurai was completely content to making Geno a Mii costume. Maybe he wanted to make him playable, but with the convenience of Mii Fighters and the Gunner class, that might have been the farthest extent he will go with the character and not fully implement him. It might be just my mood today, but I guess the most negative side of my mind wants to consider other possible meanings of Sakurai's statement on Geno.

After seeing K. Rool, it's obvious. He said EVERYONE is here. And he meant it.

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

Interesting tidbit related to Final Fantasy 14 that may explain the lack of more FF songs in Smash Ultimate.

"In relation to any functions within the game which allow you to perform virtual musical instruments (“performance actions”), you are strictly prohibited from performing the music of any third parties. You hereby warrant that your performance using the performance actions will not infringe the rights of any third parties and you shall indemnify us in respect of any breach of such warranty. You may record and share your performance of the FINAL FANTASY XIV original score excluding the songs entitled “Answers”, “Dragonsong” and “Revolutions” or original songs and/or melodies using the performance actions in accordance with this Agreement. Furthermore, by using the performance actions, you acknowledge and consent to any third party recording and sharing of your performance online. You also hereby agree that we may block or otherwise restrict your access to FFXIV if you do not comply with the terms of the licence contained herein. "

The songs above are by Nobuo Uematsu. It seems Nobuo is VERY protective about his music. Not surprising to me. The composer on Dragon Quest is the same way. (Might be why we didn't get orchestral music in our versions of the the 3ds ports of DQ 7 and 8.)

This is the main theory im going with also regarding the two mario music slots on the series menu. The influence has spread over Squares composers, so to be sure nobody would get sue happy, they seperated out Mario RPG music to a seperate section on the menu. It could just be for spinoffs like people tell me, but even then if the square situation is not the case, SMRPG is a mario spinoff, so it doesnt disprove anything.

 

[-Coco-]

This is the maim theory im going with also regarding the two mario music slots on the series menu. The influence has spread over Squares composers, so to be sure nobody would get sue happy, they seperated out Mario RPG music to a seperate section on the menu.

Not to be a debby downer but I think the two Icons are for Main Mario games and Mario Kart but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

Not to be a debby downer but I think the two Icons are for Main Mario games and Mario Kart but I hope I'm wrong.

My phone cut out the spinoff part before it posted. it still doesnt explicitly disprove my theory.

 

[GenoStrike]

Interesting tidbit related to Final Fantasy 14 that may explain the lack of more FF songs in Smash Ultimate.

"In relation to any functions within the game which allow you to perform virtual musical instruments (“performance actions”), you are strictly prohibited from performing the music of any third parties. You hereby warrant that your performance using the performance actions will not infringe the rights of any third parties and you shall indemnify us in respect of any breach of such warranty. You may record and share your performance of the FINAL FANTASY XIV original score excluding the songs entitled “Answers”, “Dragonsong” and “Revolutions” or original songs and/or melodies using the performance actions in accordance with this Agreement. Furthermore, by using the performance actions, you acknowledge and consent to any third party recording and sharing of your performance online. You also hereby agree that we may block or otherwise restrict your access to FFXIV if you do not comply with the terms of the licence contained herein. "

The songs above are by Nobuo Uematsu. It seems Nobuo is VERY protective about his music. Not surprising to me. The composer on Dragon Quest is the same way. (Might be why we didn't get orchestral music in our versions of the the 3ds ports of DQ 7 and 8.)

And the composer for SMRPG was Yoko Shimomura. She already has music on the Smash Bros official website (Vega Stage - Street Fighter II). She's also on record saying SMRPG is a project she still feels tied to. I'm sure she'd be down to rearrange some tracks from it.

 

[-Coco-]

And the composer for SMRPG was Yoko Shimomura. She already has music on the Smash Bros official website (Vega Stage - Street Fighter II). She's also on record saying SMRPG is a project she still feels tied to. I'm sure she'd be down to rearrange some tracks from it.

Agreed, If anything this works in our favor.

 

[EarlTamm]

And the composer for SMRPG was Yoko Shimomura. She already has music on the Smash Bros official website (Vega Stage - Street Fighter II). She's also on record saying SMRPG is a project she still feels tied to. I'm sure she'd be down to rearrange some tracks from it.

From what I heard, she said SMRPG was a turning point in her career. Either that or Kingdom Hearts, I have heard both.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

If you guys are second-guessing yourselves on Geno, keep in mind that Sakurai far more viciously deconfirmed Ridley.

A snippet:

“Instead of going through a lot of very convoluted hocus-pocus to make Ridley a fighter, I figured it’d be better to keep Ridley as it currently is, the correct way, and have it feel like a truly threatening presence,”

Sheesh. Sounds like Sakurai doesn't want to ever make that guy a fighter.

Oh wait...

Spoiler

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If the second part of the ResetERA leak is truly by a different person, the first part still leaves it open who the Square rep is.

It says Square IS getting a rep but they don't know who.

Still the possibility it could be Geno?

Though that would still mean that the remaining echoes doesn't include Dixie but has Soren

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

All we can do is wait. Apparently Amazon UK put up placeholder titles, which could either mean a Direct in the work, or absolutely nothing. But its something to look at.

 

[FooltheFlames]

My personal theory? A moveset that pulls from her appearances and actions in game. K. Rool and Ridley have a multitude of boss fights to get a moveset from, Inkling has a large pool of weapons to pull from as well as unique mechanics. and the Belmont's have a long history of playable characters to pull moves from. All their movesets are plain as day and really showcase their games.

Ashley on the other hand is from warioware. which is a series about playing micro games. the characters in it are the ones making the games. the times where you get to actually play as ashley as far as I know are minimal as far as I'm aware. and don't know if you ever have been able to fight her

Interesting theory, but it starts to lack to hold any water once you consider characters like Captain Falcon, who has been here since the beginning. I don't think I need explain any of this, as you already know there are also several other characters with made up movesets just for Smash like his.

Not that you would even have to make up a moveset for Ashley to begin with, as there is a plethora of material to choose from in her cutscenes and the times she's been directly playable alone (which has been 3 times) and you don't fight her but she has fought other things
WarioWare is a series that makes many references to other Nintendo games, and Ashley is a character that can transform her assistant Red into just about anything. I've always had the idea ready that Ashley would bring the spirit of WarioWare along with her by being able to transform Red into various other Nintendo enemies/creatures for her attacks, let alone all the other stuff she's been shown to do.

Anyways, that's all up ro Sakurai. It's been said of him by the late Iwata that he's such a great developer becuz once he's got an idea in his for something, it's already this fully realized vision that he starts working super hard on to make into a reality, and he's just great at fully realizing his visions
So I'm sure no matter what the case, he has had a great vision in mind for Geno for quite some time, I just hope we will all see it one day for this game

This is super debatable; after K. Rool it's like a bloodbath between 10 mid-tier characters and a lot of us would argue Geno is on top because of how long people have been clamoring for him and what Sakurai said about him puts him in the driver's seat in a lot of people's eyes.

Debatable? Numbers don't lie my man~ x'D

The new triforce is finished.
View attachment 156510

That is really awesome!

 

[SSGuy]

From what I heard, she said SMRPG was a turning point in her career. Either that or Kingdom Hearts, I have heard both.

It was Mario RPG because she wanted to try a different genre compared to the Street Fighter II music. Super Mario RPG is phenomenal all around.

 

[-Coco-]

From what I heard, she said SMRPG was a turning point in her career. Either that or Kingdom Hearts, I have heard both.

Yep.

"I have several projects that I still feel tied to, ones that were turning points in my life. The most significant of these are the Street Fighter II, Super Mario RPG, and Kingdom Hearts soundtracks. "

 

[EarlTamm]

It was Mario RPG because she wanted to try a different genre compared to the Street Fighter II music. Super Mario RPG is phenomenal all around.

Yup, this is where I heard it from. I guess we can "Helped Yoko Shimomura become the legend she is today" to the list of awesome things SMRPG is responsible for.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

To add on to my previous post and to dispel away with the pessimism, the Nintendo Dream interview where Sakurai confirmed that he "was hoping to put in [Geno] as far back as Brawl", as far as I know was taken in early 2016. However, Ultimate's project plan was finalized in late 2015. This means that Sakurai went on record as saying he's wanted Geno for 2 games after the project plan was already finalized. Moreover, Square Enix was involved in Ultimate's production in the beginning stages rather than at the end.

There's no excuses anymore.

Sakurai is retreading old ground (bringing in Ditto and Sukapon), bringing back fan-favorite stages (like Fountain of Dreams) and most importantly, listening to the ballot.

Every fighter that has appeared so far has been a ballot character. Bringing back all of the veterans, ballot characters. Ridley and K. Rool, long-time fan-requested characters and ballot characters. Even Inkling, which seems like a no brainer for a new IP, is an often time forgotten popular ballot character. Dark Samus, Chrom, Shovel Knight, ballot characters. They're all ballot characters.

And we got the Geno costume (with a splash screen; the only one with one!) at the end of the ballot. That's proof that he did well in it.

This is it, guys. Bank on it. There's only very superficial roadblocks in the way but in the context of Smash Bros. they're just that, superficial.

 

[SSGuy]

Yup, this is where I heard it from. I guess we can "Helped Yoko Shimomura become the legend she is today" to the list of awesome things SMRPG is responsible for.

To be fair, Street Fighter II music was already legendary. I am all for finding another way of wording it. Her composition is a big part of what makes SMRPG so legendary.

 

[domriver]

To add on to my previous post and to dispel away with the pessimism, the Nintendo Dream interview where Sakurai confirmed that he "was hoping to put in [Geno] as far back as Brawl", as far as I know was taken in early 2016. However, Ultimate's project plan was finalized in late 2015. This means that Sakurai went on record as saying he's wanted Geno for 2 games after the project plan was already finalized. Moreover, Square Enix was involved in Ultimate's production in the beginning stages rather than at the end.

There's no excuses anymore.

Sakurai is retreading old ground (bringing in Ditto and Sukapon), bringing back fan-favorite stages (like Fountain of Dreams) and most importantly, listening to the ballot.

Every fighter that has appeared so far has been a ballot character. Bringing back all of the veterans, ballot characters. Ridley and K. Rool, long-time fan-requested characters and ballot characters. Even Inkling, which seems like a no brainer for a new IP, is an often time forgotten popular ballot character. Dark Samus, Chrom, Shovel Knight, ballot characters. They're all ballot characters.

And we got the Geno costume (with a splash screen; the only one with one!) at the end of the ballot. That's proof that he did well in it.

This is it, guys. Bank on it. There's only very superficial roadblocks in the way but in the context of Smash Bros. they're just that, superficial.

Well put! its just a matter of time now. waiting....

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

To add on to my previous post and to dispel away with the pessimism, the Nintendo Dream interview where Sakurai confirmed that he "was hoping to put in [Geno] as far back as Brawl", as far as I know was taken in early 2016. However, Ultimate's project plan was finalized in late 2015. This means that Sakurai went on record as saying he's wanted Geno for 2 games after the project plan was already finalized. Moreover, Square Enix was involved in Ultimate's production in the beginning stages rather than at the end.

There's no excuses anymore.

Sakurai is retreading old ground (bringing in Ditto and Sukapon), bringing back fan-favorite stages (like Fountain of Dreams) and most importantly, listening to the ballot.

Every fighter that has appeared so far has been a ballot character. Bringing back all of the veterans, ballot characters. Ridley and K. Rool, long-time fan-requested characters and ballot characters. Even Inkling, which seems like a no brainer for a new IP, is an often time forgotten popular ballot character. Dark Samus, Chrom, Shovel Knight, ballot characters. They're all ballot characters.

And we got the Geno costume (with a splash screen; the only one with one!) at the end of the ballot. That's proof that he did well in it.

This is it, guys. Bank on it. There's only very superficial roadblocks in the way but in the context of Smash Bros. they're just that, superficial.

Nice.

 

[EarlTamm]

And we got the Geno costume (with a splash screen; the only one with one!) at the end of the ballot. That's proof that he did well in it.

Not only that, but Sakurai himself pretty much confirmed he did well in the ballot.
Sakurai: "Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something."

To be fair, Street Fighter II music was already legendary. I am all for finding another way of wording it. Her composition is a big part of what makes SMRPG so legendary.

True, that game had some amazing music, but I think SMRPG really helped her realize more about her craft and then she used what she learned for Kingdom Hearts and everything beyond that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is "Ultimate", the accumulation of Everything Smash has been up until this point.

Geno must get into this one!

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Not only that, but Sakurai himself pretty much confirmed he did well in the ballot.
Sakurai: "Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something."

Precisely.

And that tone indicates that he was disappointed at not being able to include him. If he had no intention of promoting Geno to playable, he would have dispelled with the rumors immediately (as he has done multiple times in the past) and cited a specific reason for why Geno couldn't be done or won't be done. Even then, Geno would still have an argument but the fact is, Sakurai opted not to firmly deconfirm him.

Edit: And since the project plan was already complete at the time of this interview, it would have been incumbent on him to dispel with the rumors as not to get the fans' hopes up.

 

[GenoStrike]

Every time I read new messages in this thread I get more hopeful and more excited.

It's actually less of a hope and more of a belief. I believe he's actually in this game. It's crazy.

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

It's like people don't remember the ballot existed. Veterans doing so hot was probably the main influence behind "Everyone is here". While we're on this, i think its safe to assume that K Rool and Ridley were the legit 1st and second place winners. While i dont neccesarily think Geno was 3rd place, though he couldve been, he was obviously high enough to warrant a mention. So in the end, Sakurai rused us with the ballot.

 

[EarlTamm]

Honestly, one of the biggest things I am looking forward to if Geno gets revealed is the spike of fan art that will no doubt follow. Idk, I just really want more fan art relating to Geno, especially art that has him interacting with other Nintendo characters and even third parties.

It's like people don't remember the ballot existed. Veterans doing so hot was probably the main influence behind "Everyone is here". While we're on this, i think its safe to assume that K Rool and Ridley were the legit 1st and second place winners. While i dont neccesarily think Geno was 3rd place, though he couldve been, he was obviously high enough to warrant a mention. So in the end, Sakurai rused us with the ballot.

I do think K.Rool placed high, but Ridley might have been wounded by his boss role, making some westerners see no point in voting for him. I still think he placed high enough to warrant looking at, and Sakurai knows that in all reality he was one of the most wanted characters. And I don't think Sakurai roused us. He may be a troll, but not a liar.

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

Honestly, one of the biggest things I am looking forward to if Geno gets revealed is the spike of fan art that will no doubt follow. Idk, I just really want more fan art relating to Geno, especially art that has him interacting with other Nintendo characters and even third parties.

I do think K.Rool placed high, but Ridley might have been wounded by his boss role, making some westerners see no point in voting for him. I still think he placed high enough to warrant looking at, and Sakurai knows that in all reality he was one of the most wanted characters. And I don't think Sakurai roused us. He may be a troll, but not a liar.

if people unironically voted for Shrek and Goku, then tons of people voted for Ridley lol

 

[Fenriraga]

Honestly, the only thing that can top Geno in Smash for me is Nintendo coming out and saying "By the way, we own Geno and Mallow now".

I would die if they could join the spinoff games.

 

[LiquidBoxcutter]

Honestly, the only thing that can top Geno in Smash for me is Nintendo coming out and saying "By the way, we own Geno and Mallow now".

I would die if they could join the spinoff games.

If Geno is in, and the game does well (which it will), there will be more possibility in this.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Nintendo outright buying the rights to SMRPG but I do think that since Square created a division specifically for Switch games, we have a strong possibility of getting either a remake or a sequel. Again... not getting my hopes up for it or anything but boy would I like to!

 

[EarlTamm]

if people unironically voted for Shrek and Goku, then tons of people voted for Ridley lol

I have no doubt. But let us not forget that a lot of people did ironically vote for Shrek and Goku. Also, Ridley was not that popular in Japan, so that likely hurt his votes a bit. Actually, a lot of newcomer picks are very west based. Ridley is a western fan favorite, Dark Samus was made by a western developer, Castlevania is apparently is more popular in the west, and even K.Rool was made by Rare.

 

[Essora]

I haven't played Mario RPG and am not generally interested by his design, but I just wanted to pop in to say I think he's got good odds judging by Sakurai seemingly taking fan requests in this one. Hope you guys get your boy.

 

[Houndstooth]

Wouldn't Boshi be a faster version of Yoshi? His whole thing was that he was the fastest Yoshi. Yoshi only beats him in a race because you feed him cookies to make him run faster.

I can't believe we're talking about Boshi though haha. Geno's chances are so high that we've moved on to stuff like this. That's awesome.

Personally, I would say to make Boshi a faster and less powerful version of Yoshi. He was super fast, and we never see him carry a passenger, unlike Yoshi. I think seeing Boshi would be pretty cool, but super low possibility.

Honestly, the only thing that can top Geno in Smash for me is Nintendo coming out and saying "By the way, we own Geno and Mallow now".

I would die if they could join the spinoff games.

You have no idea. I have wanted Geno and Mallow in the spin-off games for so long. Having Geno in Mario Kart, Mario Party, and the other Mario Sports games would be awesome. I'll take them over random, lesser enemies any day!

 

[-Coco-]

I haven't played Mario RPG and am not generally interested by his design, but I just wanted to pop in to say I think he's got good odds judging by Sakurai seemingly taking fan requests in this one. Hope you guys get your boy.

Much appreciated friend. If you wouldn't mind taking the time I suggest watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8TAKgl-ME

It might change your mind and it's very well made.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Heyyo. A fellow Isaac supporter here.

After a couple of days, I might've realized that the most likely newcomers would be Isaac, Skull Kid, and Geno.

Though, I think Sakurai would save him for the last character, since that would end the character reveals with a bang.

Let us just hope he gets in. Good luck. You'll need it.

 

[Diem]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Nintendo outright buying the rights to SMRPG but I do think that since Square created a division specifically for Switch games, we have a strong possibility of getting either a remake or a sequel. Again... not getting my hopes up for it or anything but boy would I like to!

This is actually an interesting idea. Super Mario RPG has kind of been frozen in time as a moment in the 90's when the egos of Square and Nintendo managed to work side by side. Then they split apart as Nintendo alienated third parties with the N64 and most flocked to PlayStation. Now, with the success of Square's DS/3DS games and now Octopath Traveler, their relationship is much healthier. And Geno was a Mii Costume in Smash 4, so they were able to settle on that.

With the Mario & Luigi game getting its second remake next year, I don't see why Super Mario RPG couldn't get one. I'd be very curious to see what style they'd go with for the graphics.

 

[-Coco-]

This is actually an interesting idea. Super Mario RPG has kind of been frozen in time as a moment in the 90's when the egos of Square and Nintendo managed to work side by side. Then they split apart as Nintendo alienated third parties with the N64 and most flocked to PlayStation. Now, with the success of Square's DS/3DS games and now Octopath Traveler, their relationship is much healthier. And Geno was a Mii Costume in Smash 4, so they were able to settle on that.

With the Mario & Luigi game getting its second remake next year, I don't see why Super Mario RPG couldn't get one. I'd be very curious to see what style they'd go with for the graphics.

Not to mention alphadream is composed of members who worked on the original so maybe they can get on board too.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'd be very curious to see what style they'd go with for the graphics.

The style of SMRPG was inspired by the realistic(At the time) look of the DKC games, and they saw the potential in that. I feel like because of this, a SMRPG 2 would go with full on 3D. It has also been contemplated whether they would do something similar to the style of Octopath traveler, but SMRPG world put at a very distinct angle compared to the rpg's Octopath takes inspiration from when it comes to it's graphics, so I don't know how that would go.

 

[Essora]

Much appreciated friend. If you wouldn't mind taking the time I suggest watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8TAKgl-ME

It might change your mind and it's very well made.

Definitely a well thought-out video, I'd be happy for you guys if he got the include, I know you've been asking for Geno since the Brawl days.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's interesting. I was going through the old Geno thread for Smash 4 and I found this

Apparently a Nintendo Artist drew a picture of Geno in 2015.

Anyone know anything about that?

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I found this awesome fanart of Isaac and Geno online by RRodriguez326 on DeviantArt. Here's hoping both Nintendo RPG boys make it into Smash

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I haven't made much art of Geno. I should try. Maybe I could try and make a little animation or something.