Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

My guess is Isaac.

I'd personally guess either Isaac or Shadow, Isaac for being so highly requested and Shadow for seeming like such a lock.

 

[Xigger]

Wait, his voice actors ignored questions about it?

That alone makes him really likely imo

Similar situation with David Hayter (Snake) leaking Jigglypuff when asked what fighter he wants Snake to choke the most.

 

[Datboigeno]

I'd personally guess either Isaac or Shadow, Isaac for being so highly requested and Shadow for seeming like such a lock.

Yeah either one of those two. I’m leaning more towards Isaac considering that Polar commented a few months ago about how Nintendo was thrown off by people expecting Isaac and being pissed he wasn’t playable.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

but still got really depressed when he learned about the contents of the last Smash Direct, either on October 30th or Halloween

Even people at Nintendo were bummed out by the November direct lol.

 

[Deleted member]

My guess is Isaac.

In the Square thread, Polar said he wanted Isaac and Skull Kid too so it might be either one of them

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also, yes, Geno has been talked about among insiders but usually in the same way as Yuri and Lloyd: hearing the name and little else. Vergeben's main source has been the only major person to weigh in by claiming Geno was leakbait but, per their own words, only believed this for personal reasons. To this day, they haven't revealed those reasons. Did they know about the spirit? Did they just not think it was possible? We don't know but Polar even showed me the original message and they were very adamant about not being pressed further about their stance.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

Also, yes, Geno has been talked about among insiders but usually in the same way as Yuri and Lloyd: hearing the name and little else. Vergeben's main source has been the only major person to weigh in by claiming Geno was leakbait but, per their own words, only believed this for personal reasons. To this day, they haven't revealed those reasons. Did they know about the spirit? Did they just not think it was possible? We don't know but Polar even showed me the original message and they were very adamant about not being pressed further about their stance.

I thought polar found out differently here:

No, I THOUGHT I said this publically before but i probably forgot, but Verge heard Geno is leakbait. Not for personal reasons or not that he wasn't sure on him, he was just straight up told Geno is bait. I got this clarification not too long ago. Initially, seeing 'don't take him seriously', I thought it may have been bias, but he was just trying to put it lightly that he was told it's not Geno. A bit of clarification here.

I'm still not really counting him out personally, but I think it's fair for others to depending on how much weight they put on it. Personally, I want Geno the most.

 

[Lime3037]

So, pretty safe to say there's not going to be a Direct tomorrow.

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah either one of those two. I’m leaning more towards Isaac considering that Polar commented a few months ago about how Nintendo was thrown off by people expecting Isaac and being pissed he wasn’t playable.

Yeah the backlash was huge. And they totally got it coming, considering how teased the character was with the whole grow item thing, the rathalos pict in camelot style, among other hints that kept pilling up for months that I can't remember at the moment. Either way, whoever that character was, grinch leak had definitely quite a few characters that got people super hopefull so I wouldn't be surprised if it was about any of those too (probably even Banjo Kazooie). I still wonder how crazy would've been to get something like Mach rider in smash, lol.

 

[coolcat12347]

I’m still vaguely new to how the boards work so I can’t exactly @ people but
Thanks for clearing things up!

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I don't know how much longer I can go without a direct. This is torturous

 

[Fatmanonice]

I thought polar found out differently here:

They're not mutually exclusive. Polar's account came later and the reasons for why Verge's source believed Geno to be leakbait were not disclosed. Basically it went from the source being wishy-washy to a hard no later on.

 

[shocktarts17]

I’m still vaguely new to how the boards work so I can’t exactly @ people but
Thanks for clearing things up!

you're pretty close, just put an @ symbol then type their user name ( coolcat12347 ) to tag someone

You can also click the reply button on their post to quote them in your post.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

I don't know how much longer I can go without a direct. This is torturous

Yeah, I am not sure I can wait another week. I am suffering from news withdrawal.

 

[HMpoweredMan]

I'm generally sick up JRPG humans in Smash. I really hope they don't add anymore.

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm generally sick up JRPG humans in Smash. I really hope they don't add anymore.

That’s pretty much my feeling too. I’m pro-diversity in something like a DLC pack especially. I think Joker is a cool choice even if I’ve never played Persona but at the same time I don’t want all the other characters to be JRPG humanoids either. Like if we get a Tales rep I hope the other 2 are more like a Banjo or Geno in terms of their designs.

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah that’s just a really strange point to bring up in a support thread for a specific character. Everyone is excited about the prospect of some specific character being one of the DLC. And sure people are inevitably going to be disappointed in some way. But I don’t see the point of thought policing people over being hype about something. Let people be hopeful about specific characters in character support thread. That’s literally the point of the thread.

I have no idea what youre talking about. You basically just made up a way to look at what I said, cuz I was really just talking about expectations in an open way (not policing), and not about lessening hype or supporting a character or whatever.

Is it just me or are people less nice to me since I switched my avatar?

 

[egaddmario]

That’s pretty much my feeling too. I’m pro-diversity in something like a DLC pack especially. I think Joker is a cool choice even if I’ve never played Persona but at the same time I don’t want all the other characters to be JRPG humanoids either. Like if we get a Tales rep I hope the other 2 are more like a Banjo or Geno in terms of their designs.

Couldn't agree more. I think we got a good amount of diversity in the base roster with newcomers of the monster type, Ridley, K. Rool, Incineroar, and human type, Simon, Chrom, Daisy, Richter, (with Isabelle and Inkling being somewhat in between) . Much better than Smash 4, which was basically all humans. Hopefully DLC will have a similar balance.

 

[shocktarts17]

Is it just me or are people less nice to me since I switched my avatar?

Well I can't speak to your case since I don't actually remember what your profile pic used to be but I think a lot of judgement is placed on who you support and forms a lot of bases for how people respond to each other. That said as I'm one of like three people with a Ravio picture I don't know if anyone feels threatened by me lol.

 

[Teeb147]

Well I can't speak to your case since I don't actually remember what your profile pic used to be but I think a lot of judgement is placed on who you support and forms a lot of bases for how people respond to each other. That said as I'm one of like three people with a Ravio picture I don't know if anyone feels threatened by me lol.

I tried to gauge what geno fans would feel like if I supported both erdrick and geno, and a couple said they're really good with it. But maybe not everyone feels that way.

 

[Datboigeno]

I have no idea what youre talking about. You basically just made up a way to look at what I said, cuz I was really just talking about expectations in an open way (not policing), and not about lessening hype or supporting a character or whatever.

Is it just me or are people less nice to me since I switched my avatar?

Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant by your posts but it seemed as though you were advocating for people to be excited about the general fact that we are getting a new character rather than being excited about a specific character possibly getting in. Was that not what you meant? I really couldn’t give a **** about who anyone has in their profile pic lol I’m just speaking to what your were saying in your posts.

 

[Ovaltine]

I tried to gauge what geno fans would feel like if I supported both erdrick and geno, and a couple said they're really good with it. But maybe not everyone feels that way.

I think you're good. There's nothing wrong with supporting multiple characters, even ones that might be 'in competition' with one another. Maybe not everyone will feel that way, but I highly encourage people to have open minds. We're all in this for the same reasons, after all. Let's be good sports.

 

[Deleted member]

I tried to gauge what geno fans would feel like if I supported both erdrick and geno, and a couple said they're really good with it. But maybe not everyone feels that way.

No, we are good with it

 

[Teeb147]

Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant by your posts but it seemed as though you were advocating for people to be excited about the general fact that we are getting a new character rather than being excited about a specific character possibly getting in. Was that not what you meant?

Sure, and definitely not to police. If I can save a bit of heartache for some people who connect with the insight, then that's why I would talk about that stuff.

I think that 'hype' itself is worth talking about sometimes, just because we see a lot of what happens around, including drama and being mean when frustrated about a character or their chances, and I think that's kind of sad, and it doesn't really have to happen. It will, but I think it'd be nice if there's better vibes around too.

I know that it doesn't feel good to teeter and hope for a character to the point that if it doesn't show up it ruins the experience. I've even seen people hate the game itself just because they didn't get their character. I think that's awful, and what I said is just the easiest way to shift the hype so that it feels good and there isn't as much tension. That's to enjoy the prospect of new characters in itself, and that doesn't have to dampen the fun of supporting a character and hoping for it too

I only think about that stuff because I care about good vibes and for people to have a good experience, with all this too. Not that it's bad when things get heated a little too. Sometimes it's pretty much a waste of energy tho.

Anyway. I'd talk more about geno too, but after 600 pages there isn't all that much more to talk about lol.

 

[Ovaltine]

Sure, and definitely not to police. If I can save a bit of heartache for some people who connect with the insight, then that's why I would talk about that stuff.

I think that 'hype' itself is worth about sometimes, just because we see a lot of what happens around, including drama and being mean when frustrated about a character or their chances, and I think that's kind of sad, and it doesn't really have to happen. It will, but I think it'd be nice if there's better vibes around too.

I know that it doesn't feel good to teeter and hope for a character to the point that if it doesn't show up it ruins the experience. I've even seen people hate the game itself just because they didn't get their character. I think that's awful, and what I said is just the easiest way to shift the hype so that it feels good and there isn't as much tension. That's to enjoy the prospect of new characters in itself, and that doesn't have to dampen the fun of supporting a character and hoping for it too

I only think about that stuff because I care about good vibes and for people to have a good experience, with all this too. Not that it's bad when things get heated a little too. Sometimes it's pretty much a waste of energy tho.

Anyway. I'd talk more about geno too, but after 600 pages there isn't all that much more to talk about lol.

I wish more people thought like this. I completely agree, and I think looking at the positive aspects of this cuh-raaaazy speculation cycle is imperative. Tempering our expectations and waiting to see what's on the horizon is the best way to avoid being brutally disappointed, really. Whichever characters get in, I'll be super happy for their fans!

 

[SSGuy]

From what I've seen PolarPanda's source is impeccable, especially when he gets info from his supervisors. So far he hasn't been wrong about anything he's definitively stood behind. For example, I feel like that's why he was confident yesterday morning but iffy by last night because he got conflicting info or decided everything compiled was too vague to make an unabashed conclusion. Based on what I've seen, his sources don't seem to have incentive to lie to him either and his supervisors seem to respect and care about him enough to not blatantly lie to him (for example, they let him down easy on a particular character way back in August).

And this goes for the water cooler talks as well? I just wish there was more detail regarding that kind of hint.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

PolarPanda have you come across anything new today? :/

If you knew who was gonna be revealed at the next direct/ if there was no character, would you tell us? Once I heard that people actually knew about The Joker and Brave before the VGA's makes me very distrustful of leakers now tbh.... actively hiding **** from us.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

PolarPanda have you come across anything new today? :/

If you knew who was gonna be revealed at the next direct/ if there was no character, would you tell us? Once I heard that people actually knew about The Joker and Brave before the VGA's makes me very distrustful of leakers now tbh.... actively hiding **** from us.

I don't think anyone knew about Joker. They just knew the codenames which they kept secret so that Nintendo wouldn't find out people found it.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I don't think anyone knew about Joker. They just knew the codenames which they kept secret so that Nintendo wouldn't find out people found it.

I guess that's what I meant. They kept the codenames away from the public. This wasn't putting anyone's job on the line like some of the things they can't say.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I guess that's what I meant. They kept the codenames away from the public. This wasn't putting anyone's job on the line like some of the things they can't say.

Excuse me but why are you thinking that they have the obligation of telling us?

 

[Ovaltine]

PolarPanda have you come across anything new today? :/

If you knew who was gonna be revealed at the next direct/ if there was no character, would you tell us? Once I heard that people actually knew about The Joker and Brave before the VGA's makes me very distrustful of leakers now tbh.... actively hiding **** from us.

They aren't entitled to tell you anything, especially since running rampant with top-secret information can result in people, y'know, losing their jobs and livelihoods. Don't you dare be so disrespectful to Polar and anyone else who has tried to get information for us. Understand where they're coming from.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Excuse me but why are you thinking that they have the obligation of telling us?

I mean.... I don't know why they "COULDNT"..... just seems like kind of a **** move without any logical backing. It's different from the instances when job's are on the line. This was Nintendo's error.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I mean.... I don't know why they "COULDNT"..... just seems like kind of a **** move without any logical backing. It's different from the instances when job's are on the line. This was Nintendo's error.

They aren't entitled to tell you anything, especially since running rampant with top-secret information can result in people, y'know, losing their jobs and livelihoods. Don't you dare be so disrespectful to Polar and anyone else who has tried to get information for us. Understand where they're coming from.

Thanks Ovaltine.

 

[Ovaltine]

I mean.... I don't know why they "COULDNT"..... just seems like kind of a **** move without any logical backing. It's different from the instances when job's are on the line. This was Nintendo's error.

Okay, that's it.

When you get to the point of throwing that **** out of the window because you're just so entitled to know everything that leakers are 'keeping secret' about, whinging about it without understanding anything that could incriminate people, we have a problem. Guess what? Datamining is highly discouraged and playing games with this information can still get people in trouble, even if they don't work for Nintendo. The Nintendo Ninjas exist for a reason! They are there for a reason.

My patience has honestly been hanging by a thread with you, but when you start ****ting on good people for no reason other than, "I'M IMPATIENT, LET ME GET WHAT I WANT NOW!" like some kind of child, my patience is just through.

Frankly?

You can **** right off. Just, just go until you learn how to behave and treat people with some form of decency, child.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Okay, that's it.

When you get to the point of throwing that **** out of the window because you're just so entitled to know everything that leakers are 'keeping secret' about, whinging about it without understanding anything that could incriminate people, we have a problem. Guess what? Datamining is highly discouraged and playing games with this information can still get people in trouble, even if they don't work for Nintendo. The Nintendo Ninjas exist for a reason! They are there for a reason.

My patience has honestly been hanging by a thread with you, but when you start ****ting on good people for no reason other than, "I'M IMPATIENT, LET ME GET WHAT I WANT NOW!" like some kind of child, my patience is just through.

Frankly?

You can **** right off. Just, just go until you learn how to behave and treat people with some form of decency, child.

Nintendo can't do anything to people for digging around in the code of the video game which they purchased. Otherwise; those channel's that go over unused game assets wouldn't exist.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, I'm in a much better mood today because I was surprised yesterday by my University not only liking my idea of a school sponsored competitive gaming club (think Smash tournaments paid for by government money) but also wanting me to be the staff adviser for it. That said, I'll entertain the idea I've seen people volleyballing around about Brave actually being Geno for fun. I'm entertaining the idea so, whatever, put this in your next cringe compilation if you want; **** you, I'm doing this and, now, for the feature presentation... A Toon Link sized character that's floaty, slippery, average speed, slightly heavy, with good low but not too low to the ground jump stats like Villager and Cloud. Going off my thoughts that the character currently has the stats of a mid range projectile zoner or short range aerial zoner, let's take a look at the main argument that people have for it not being Geno.

"It can't be Geno because Brave's too heavy and too slow."

For reference, Brave is about 25th in weight and 36th in speed.

Brave is slighly lighter than Megaman but not much heavier than Cloud and Mario. If this were Geno, what would explain this weight? If you look at the weight attributes, most of the projectile zoners in the game, especially those with multiple projectiles, are within extremes. A very common characteristic is them being slower, whether they are light or heavy. The more long range options (especially projectiles) usually the slower and/or lighter they are. Olimar is 50th in speed and tied for 68th for weight. Zelda is 70th in speed and 62nd for weight. The Belmonts are 64th in speed and tied for 11th for weight. Snake is 54th in speed and 16th in weight. Mii Gunner is tied for 18th in weight and 73rd in speed. You get the idea.

Mid range is typically more balanced. Pac-Man is tied for 42nd in speed and 36th for weight. Ness is 51st in speed and tied for 40th in weight. Lucas is 46th in speed and tied with Ness in weight. Megaman is 52nd in speed and 24th in weight. ROB is 38th in speed and 16th in weight.

The fastest projectile zoner is Toon Link and he ranks 24th in speed, being the same weight as Palutena for 49th in weight (who ranks 15th in speed if you want to count her as a projectile zoner). Of the projectile zoners in the game, there are five characters above dead center in running speed, Paluntena (if you count her), Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Young Link, and Duck Hunt.

Weight: 50th Speed: 15th
50th, 24th
32nd, 27th
56th, 36th
60th, 31st

So who all falls below this line then?



With Brave being roughly the same speed as Young Link, he'd still be top 5 fastest projectile zoners, out of 24 who fight with multiple projectiles. Not exactly blazing fast but still pretty fast for a hypothetical gameplay style. So, by this analysis, they would be 25th in weight and 36th in speed so pretty balanced in basic stats, further emphasized that they would be the 12th heaviest of the 24 here.

Now, here's where things get interesting: what about Brave's air speed? ... they're actually the fastest of the 24 by a considerable margin. Even on the actual tier list, Brave is a whopping 7-12 characters faster than the next fastest in the air which is Duck Hunt. If Brave were a mid range projectile zoner, this would be really good. Sure, they're not winning Olympic races on the ground but in the air, they're almost top 10 overall. Throw in the fact that they have a short hop as good as Villager and Cloud and a fall speed as good as Roy and you have a fairly intimidating character. We may not know the specifics of the aerial lag but let's go back to the five I mentioned earlier and consider traditional spacing and combo starting aerials:

Young Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Toon Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 11 frames

Palutena
Nair: 12 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Wii Fit Trainer
Nair: 8 frames
Fair: 8 frames

Duck Hunt
Nair: 10 frames
Fair: 9 frames

For reference, Roy/Chrom's nair is 9 frames and fair is 8. Mario's nair is 6 and Mario's just a touch faster than Brave on the ground but they're equals in the air and we all know the wacky **** Mario can pull off. If they can zone like Duck Hunt or Toon Link and move in the air like Mario or Inkling, this is a character that breaks into your house and gets permission from you and your wife to **** her on the kitchen table within 5 minutes of making eye contact and you'd be honored to put it on Snapchat. This is a deceptively fast character despite the balance on the surface.

In conclusion, I kind of think this frame would work well for Geno because, just like his character, looks can be deceiving. Sure, the stats are balanced but get him short hopping around (Tokyo City like a big playground) and give him equally good projectile options as Young Link, this is a nimble character that would be a defensive giant in competitive play. Honestly, with these kinds of stats, you'd wish he was slower.

 

[Ovaltine]

Nintendo can't do anything to people for digging around in the code of the video game which they purchased. Otherwise; those channel's that go over unused game assets wouldn't exist.

You know, I could argue this with how Ultimate's DLC is a different type of case, but I just... have no desire to waste my breath on you anymore. I'm tired.

Just stop dogging people like Polar for no good reason. Please. That's all I ask.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So, I'm in a much better mood today because I was surprised yesterday by my University not only liking my idea of a school sponsored competitive gaming club (think Smash tournaments paid for by government money) but also wanting me to be the staff adviser for it. That said, I'll entertain the idea I've seen people volleyballing around about Brave actually being Geno for fun. I'm entertaining the idea so, whatever, put this in your next cringe compilation if you want; **** you, I'm doing this and, now, for the feature presentation... A Toon Link sized character that's floaty, slippery, average speed, slightly heavy, with good low but not too low to the ground jump stats like Villager and Cloud. Going off my thoughts that the character currently has the stats of a mid range projectile zoner or short range aerial zoner, let's take a look at the main argument that people have for it not being Geno.

"It can't be Geno because Brave's too heavy and too slow."

For reference, Brave is about 25th in weight and 36th in speed.

Brave is slighly lighter than Megaman but not much heavier than Cloud and Mario. If this were Geno, what would explain this weight? If you look at the weight attributes, most of the projectile zoners in the game, especially those with multiple projectiles, are within extremes. A very common characteristic is them being slower, whether they are light or heavy. The more long range options (especially projectiles) usually the slower and/or lighter they are. Olimar is 50th in speed and tied for 68th for weight. Zelda is 70th in speed and 62nd for weight. The Belmonts are 64th in speed and tied for 11th for weight. Snake is 54th in speed and 16th in weight. Mii Gunner is tied for 18th in weight and 73rd in speed. You get the idea.

Mid range is typically more balanced. Pac-Man is tied for 42nd in speed and 36th for weight. Ness is 51st in speed and tied for 40th in weight. Lucas is 46th in speed and tied with Ness in weight. Megaman is 52nd in speed and 24th in weight. ROB is 38th in speed and 16th in weight.

The fastest projectile zoner is Toon Link and he ranks 24th in speed, being the same weight as Palutena for 49th in weight (who ranks 15th in speed if you want to count her as a projectile zoner). Of the projectile zoners in the game, there are five characters above dead center in running speed, Paluntena (if you count her), Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Young Link, and Duck Hunt.

Weight: 50th Speed: 15th
50th, 24th
32nd, 27th
56th, 36th
60th, 31st

So who all falls below this line then?



With Brave being roughly the same speed as Young Link, he'd still be top 5 fastest projectile zoners, out of 24 who fight with multiple projectiles. Not exactly blazing fast but still pretty fast for a hypothetical gameplay style. So, by this analysis, they would be 25th in weight and 36th in speed so pretty balanced in basic stats, further emphasized that they would be the 12th heaviest of the 24 here.

Now, here's where things get interesting: what about Brave's air speed? ... they're actually the fastest of the 24 by a considerable margin. Even on the actual tier list, Brave is a whopping 7-12 characters faster than the next fastest in the air which is Duck Hunt. If Brave were a mid range projectile zoner, this would be really good. Sure, they're not winning Olympic races on the ground but in the air, they're almost top 10 overall. Throw in the fact that they have a short hop as good as Villager and Cloud and a fall speed as good as Roy and you have a fairly intimidating character. We may not know the specifics of the aerial lag but let's go back to the five I mentioned earlier and consider traditional spacing and combo starting aerials:

Young Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Toon Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 11 frames

Palutena
Nair: 12 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Wii Fit Trainer
Nair: 8 frames
Fair: 8 frames

Duck Hunt
Nair: 10 frames
Fair: 9 frames

For reference, Roy/Chrom's nair is 9 frames and fair is 8. Mario's nair is 6 and Mario's just a touch faster than Brave on the ground but they're equals in the air and we all know the wacky **** Mario can pull off. If they can zone like Duck Hunt or Toon Link and move in the air like Mario or Inkling, this is a character that breaks into your house and gets permission from you and your wife to **** her on the kitchen table within 5 minutes of making eye contact and you'd be honored to put it on Snapchat. This is a deceptively fast character despite the balance on the surface.

In conclusion, I kind of think this frame would work well for Geno because, just like his character, looks can be deceiving. Sure, the stats are balanced but get him short hopping around (Tokyo City like a big playground) and give him equally good projectile options as Young Link, this is a nimble character that would be a defensive giant in competitive play. Honestly, with these kinds of stats, you'd wish he was slower.

This is literally the only time I care about stats tbh.

 

[Deleted member]

this is a character that breaks into your house and gets permission from you and your wife to **** her on the kitchen table within 5 minutes of making eye contact and you'd be honored to put it on Snapchat.

This will help us narrow it down

 

[DaxMasterix]

So, I'm in a much better mood today because I was surprised yesterday by my University not only liking my idea of a school sponsored competitive gaming club (think Smash tournaments paid for by government money) but also wanting me to be the staff adviser for it. That said, I'll entertain the idea I've seen people volleyballing around about Brave actually being Geno for fun. I'm entertaining the idea so, whatever, put this in your next cringe compilation if you want; **** you, I'm doing this and, now, for the feature presentation... A Toon Link sized character that's floaty, slippery, average speed, slightly heavy, with good low but not too low to the ground jump stats like Villager and Cloud. Going off my thoughts that the character currently has the stats of a mid range projectile zoner or short range aerial zoner, let's take a look at the main argument that people have for it not being Geno.

"It can't be Geno because Brave's too heavy and too slow."

For reference, Brave is about 25th in weight and 36th in speed.

Brave is slighly lighter than Megaman but not much heavier than Cloud and Mario. If this were Geno, what would explain this weight? If you look at the weight attributes, most of the projectile zoners in the game, especially those with multiple projectiles, are within extremes. A very common characteristic is them being slower, whether they are light or heavy. The more long range options (especially projectiles) usually the slower and/or lighter they are. Olimar is 50th in speed and tied for 68th for weight. Zelda is 70th in speed and 62nd for weight. The Belmonts are 64th in speed and tied for 11th for weight. Snake is 54th in speed and 16th in weight. Mii Gunner is tied for 18th in weight and 73rd in speed. You get the idea.

Mid range is typically more balanced. Pac-Man is tied for 42nd in speed and 36th for weight. Ness is 51st in speed and tied for 40th in weight. Lucas is 46th in speed and tied with Ness in weight. Megaman is 52nd in speed and 24th in weight. ROB is 38th in speed and 16th in weight.

The fastest projectile zoner is Toon Link and he ranks 24th in speed, being the same weight as Palutena for 49th in weight (who ranks 15th in speed if you want to count her as a projectile zoner). Of the projectile zoners in the game, there are five characters above dead center in running speed, Paluntena (if you count her), Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Young Link, and Duck Hunt.

Weight: 50th Speed: 15th
50th, 24th
32nd, 27th
56th, 36th
60th, 31st

So who all falls below this line then?



With Brave being roughly the same speed as Young Link, he'd still be top 5 fastest projectile zoners, out of 24 who fight with multiple projectiles. Not exactly blazing fast but still pretty fast for a hypothetical gameplay style. So, by this analysis, they would be 25th in weight and 36th in speed so pretty balanced in basic stats, further emphasized that they would be the 12th heaviest of the 24 here.

Now, here's where things get interesting: what about Brave's air speed? ... they're actually the fastest of the 24 by a considerable margin. Even on the actual tier list, Brave is a whopping 7-12 characters faster than the next fastest in the air which is Duck Hunt. If Brave were a mid range projectile zoner, this would be really good. Sure, they're not winning Olympic races on the ground but in the air, they're almost top 10 overall. Throw in the fact that they have a short hop as good as Villager and Cloud and a fall speed as good as Roy and you have a fairly intimidating character. We may not know the specifics of the aerial lag but let's go back to the five I mentioned earlier and consider traditional spacing and combo starting aerials:

Young Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Toon Link
Nair: 7 frames
Fair: 11 frames

Palutena
Nair: 12 frames
Fair: 7 frames

Wii Fit Trainer
Nair: 8 frames
Fair: 8 frames

Duck Hunt
Nair: 10 frames
Fair: 9 frames

For reference, Roy/Chrom's nair is 9 frames and fair is 8. Mario's nair is 6 and Mario's just a touch faster than Brave on the ground but they're equals in the air and we all know the wacky **** Mario can pull off. If they can zone like Duck Hunt or Toon Link and move in the air like Mario or Inkling, this is a character that breaks into your house and gets permission from you and your wife to **** her on the kitchen table within 5 minutes of making eye contact and you'd be honored to put it on Snapchat. This is a deceptively fast character despite the balance on the surface.

In conclusion, I kind of think this frame would work well for Geno because, just like his character, looks can be deceiving. Sure, the stats are balanced but get him short hopping around (Tokyo City like a big playground) and give him equally good projectile options as Young Link, this is a nimble character that would be a defensive giant in competitive play. Honestly, with these kinds of stats, you'd wish he was slower.

I just had an eyegasm by reading this, you're so wonderful Fatmanonice <3