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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Ze Diglett

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January direct seems very likely at this point since the last real one was in ****ing September and for the most part was a snoozefest. (In my opinion)

However the next character being revealed then? VERY slim chance. what we're most likely gonna get is the official release dates for PP as well as Joker and perhaps a trailer for him.

It's honestly way too early for no. 2 to be revealed yet. March or April though? THAT'S when they're gonna get revealed. I can feel it...
I wouldn't be so sure. Remember, people called "too soon" at the idea of a Smash reveal at the VGA's too, myself included, and look what happened. I wouldn't count out the possibility. In fact, I'd argue that where there's a Direct, there's most likely a Smash announcement going forward.
Nope. Protagonists before antagonisnts every time. It took four Smash games to get two of Nintendo's most iconic villains in. Porky doesn't have the fanbase neccesary to put him in alongside those two But I feel like your post seems to be more of an opinion rather than a fact so I'm just gonna stop right here as I don't want to derail the thread with Ninten talk for the tenth time.
To be fair, Ridley and K. Rool weren't held back by simply being villains. The former struggled with logistical issues with his implementation, and the latter with constant competition within his own series and irrelevancy. And if Nintendo really did pick heroes over villains "every time", K. Rool wouldn't have gotten in before Dixie, period. But they clearly saw something in K. Rool that they didn't in Dixie, or Cranky, or Funky, etc. I'm not making a case for Porky here as I don't think he has a particularly strong chance as DLC, but Ninten doesn't automatically have the leg up by virtue of simply being a protagonist.
 
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DaxMasterix

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Nope. Protagonists before antagonisnts every time. It took four Smash games to get two of Nintendo's most iconic villains in. Porky doesn't have the fanbase neccesary to put him in alongside those two But I feel like your post seems to be more of an opinion rather than a fact so I'm just gonna stop right here as I don't want to derail the thread with Ninten talk for the tenth time.
Speaking about Mother, I wanted to see Duster as an AT because of image related..
asd.png

This made me laugh at so many levels
 
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Tetrin

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Nope. Protagonists before antagonisnts every time. It took four Smash games to get two of Nintendo's most iconic villains in. Porky doesn't have the fanbase neccesary to put him in alongside those two But I feel like your post seems to be more of an opinion rather than a fact so I'm just gonna stop right here as I don't want to derail the thread with Ninten talk for the tenth time.
The statistical odds may not be in his favor, but don't forget that trends don't always hold true forever. Them adding protagonists before antagonists in the past doesn't mean anything for now. Further, Porky has no spirit, despite all the Brawl bosses getting one, and next year is Mother's 30th anniversary (somewhat irrelevant, but it's also the year of the pig). Porky would almost definitely reel in more cash than Ninten ever would, because Brawl ensured that more people know Porky than Ninten. Plus, Ninten would just be way too similar to Ness and Lucas, most likely being an echo fighter. While Nintendo is obviously fine with having three extremely similar characters represent one series (three Links), this one is an exception, because these three wouldn't only be similar reps, but the sole reps of Mother. Nintendo can be completely unaware of these issues, but I doubt they'd stoop that low.
 

The Anigriffin

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I wouldn't be so sure. Remember, people called "too soon" at the idea of a Smash reveal at the VGA's too, myself included, and look what happened. I wouldn't count out the possibility. In fact, I'd argue that where there's a Direct, there's most likely a Smash announcement going forward.

To be fair, Ridley and K. Rool weren't held back by simply being villains. The former struggled with logistical issues with his implementation, and the latter with constant competition within his own series and irrelevancy. And if Nintendo really did pick heroes over villains "every time", K. Rool wouldn't have gotten in before Dixie, period. But they clearly saw something in K. Rool that they didn't in Dixie, or Cranky, or Funky, etc.
I didn't think the VGA's were too soon. I theorized a character reveal was going to happen there before Leaky Panda did so It seemed realistic to me.

Also King K. Rool appeared before Dixie did establishing his presense before Dixie was even a character. And Diddy became a character before K. Rool who I'd argue is the true sidekick in the DK universe.

Ridley and K. Rool also topped polls. Porky didn't because Ninten, Claus, and Kumatora were some stiff competition for him to overcome.


The statistical odds may not be in his favor, but don't forget that trends don't always hold true forever. Them adding protagonists before antagonists in the past doesn't mean anything for now. Further, Porky has no spirit, despite all the Brawl bosses getting one, and next year is Mother's 30th anniversary (somewhat irrelevant, but it's also the year of the pig). Porky would almost definitely reel in more cash than Ninten ever would, because Brawl ensured that more people know Porky than Ninten. Plus, Ninten would just be way too similar to Ness and Lucas, most likely being an echo fighter. While Nintendo is obviously fine with having three extremely similar characters represent one series (three Links), this one is an exception, because these three wouldn't only be similar reps, but the sole reps of Mother. Nintendo can be completely unaware of these issues, but I doubt they'd stoop that low.
Yes Mother 1's anniversary. The game that doesn't have a rep at all. Porky isn't present in Mother 1, and before this current speculation season, Claus was arguably the most popular Mother pic. Porky didn't even make it on the old Brawl polls yet Ninten, Claus, Kumatora, Jeff, Paula, and even Poo did. Also Itoi owns the rights to the Mother characters. NOT Nintendo.

Also Porky has a spirit. It't the ASC.

>Ninten as an echo.

Yeah I'm not gonna argue any further with someone who clearly understands nothing surrounding Ninten's character.

Let's just agree to disagree.
 
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Sovereign Trinity

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The rumor of the week is leakbait, huh? Can't say I believe it more than any other leak-of-the-week.

All I know is, I'm still optimistic because of the many, many good indications listed in the OP post, all the signs that gave us tons of hope. So the ever-changing fan-generated despair doesn't get to me!




Wow it's my first time hearing about this, sounds like Polar should be one of the top new leakers! Where do I go to see this stuff?
Most of it is in the thread. I was here when he told us about the Pokémon Let's GO spirits, Geno DLC rumor, the certain "type" of DLC characters (promotion or fan favorite wise), and about no one knowing who the DLC is. I wasn't on this thread during the time when Polar told us about this, but Fatmanonice told a few of us many weeks ago about Polar's source saying Isaac and Shadow being assist trophies before they were shown in the November Direct, and his source said something about Rathalos being a boss before it was revealed in the August Direct. Pretty insane, huh?

I actually liked PolarPanda being more less-known; I liked it that way because Polar would talk to us more often about anything, whether it involved his source or not, but he's been caught in a lot of stuff lately due to being more recognized now. There was another dude on here that had a profile picture of some anime character holding cards, they were an insider, too, but I don't know where they went nor do I remember their name. If we get Geno or when the DLC ends, I can't wait for both of those two to come back and talk to us more often again. :)
 

Tetrin

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Also King K. Rool appeared before Dixie did establishing his presense before Dixie was even a character. And Diddy became a character before K. Rool who I'd argue is the true sidekick in the DK universe.
You missed the point. K Rool laid the foundation for the series, but Dixie is the framework of modern DK. Dixie is just far more relevant and dare I say prominent than K Rool, and Cranky and Funky also proved damaging to K Rool's chances simply because he hasn't been around for ages.

Also, how could you say "protagonists before antagonists" if they just added K Rool over Dixie? Porky is both more prominent, relevant, promising (moveset wise), and defining of his series than Ninten.

I didn't think the VGA's were too soon. I theorized a character reveal was going to happen there before Leaky Panda did so It seemed realistic to me.

Also King K. Rool appeared before Dixie did establishing his presense before Dixie was even a character. And Diddy became a character before K. Rool who I'd argue is the true sidekick in the DK universe.

Ridley and K. Rool also topped polls. Porky didn't because Ninten, Claus, and Kumatora were some stiff competition for him to overcome.




Yes Mother 1's anniversary. The game that doesn't have a rep at all. Porky isn't present in Mother 1, and before this current speculation season, Claus was arguably the most popular Mother pic. Porky didn't even make it on the old Brawl polls yet Ninten, Claus, Kumatora, Jeff, Paula, and even Poo did. Also Itoi owns the rights to the Mother characters. NOT Nintendo.

Also Porky has a spirit. It't the ASC.

>Ninten as an echo.

Yeah I'm not gonna argue any further with someone who clearly understands nothing surrounding Ninten's character.

Let's just agree to disagree.
I love how I didn't mention anything about Ninten's character, and you're using my understanding of him, which is completely irrelevant to the subject I might add, as an argument to downplay my own. You also didn't mention anything about his character either; the closest you got was "it's Mother 1's anniversary".

The ASC doesn't really count as a Porky spirit, because although that may represent Porky in Mother, I don't exactly recall fighting the ASC in Brawl. Characters can definitely have multiple spirits. Take someone from the very same series, Claus. The end of Mother 3 led to the demise of the Masked Man and Claus's death, so how is it that there's both a Claus and Masked Man spirit?

Also, yes, it's Mother 1's anniversary, but that's not quite what I'm saying, I said it's the Mother FRANCHISE's anniversary. Also, using Porky in the old Brawl polls is absolutely irrelevant considering they're all 10 years old now. Plus, I don't recall Joker appearing on ANY polls EVER, and he's a DLC character, so that also dampens the whole "ballot" argument. Porky would just do the series more justice than Ninten.
 
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D

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The statistical odds may not be in his favor, but don't forget that trends don't always hold true forever. Them adding protagonists before antagonists in the past doesn't mean anything for now. Further, Porky has no spirit, despite all the Brawl bosses getting one, and next year is Mother's 30th anniversary (somewhat irrelevant, but it's also the year of the pig). Porky would almost definitely reel in more cash than Ninten ever would, because Brawl ensured that more people know Porky than Ninten. Plus, Ninten would just be way too similar to Ness and Lucas, most likely being an echo fighter. While Nintendo is obviously fine with having three extremely similar characters represent one series (three Links), this one is an exception, because these three wouldn't only be similar reps, but the sole reps of Mother. Nintendo can be completely unaware of these issues, but I doubt they'd stoop that low.
Imma stop you right there.

The only thing Ninten and Ness have in common is their design. Ninten has different abilities than Ness, and has unique moveset potential with PK beam as neutral b, throwing a boomerang for his side b, 4th-D-Slip for his up b, PK shield for his down b, and, for a final smash, either singing the 8 melodies with Ana and Loid, or using EVE.

Next year is the 30th anniversary of the FIRST game. Ninten's game.

Saying Porky would make more money than Ninten is an assumption. Not fact.

Since I believe spirits aren't deconfirmations, I don't think Porky not having a spirit increases his chances. Porky's chances being affected by whether or not he has a spirit is opinional
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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Any reason? Just a gut feeling?
I've thought he was a lock for quite a while now. It makes way too much sense given everything we know. I feel like Erdrick is leakbait. Suddenly Erdrick gets a few insiders behind him, and all the miles of paperwork and multiple companies don't matter? He's been requested since Melee, but consistently and highly requested since brawl. Sakurai wants him in. He is one of VERY FEW 3rd party mii outfits that isn't replaced by either appearing in another character's moveset, or being an assist trophy. This list includes: Geno, Jacky, Lloyd, that monster hunter outfit (who is represented by rathalos assist, tbh), and Tails (who appears on a stage) I firmly believe that every single DLC character we get will either be a non-repped 3rd party, or an ace/legendary spirit that is also an online icon.

There's also the fact that a square rep has been rumored for so long now, but hasn't been revealed. Why is that? There's a really reasonable explanation, but it only works if the rep in question is Geno.

sakurai: alright cool now that clouds in smash 4 we can also add geno in the next game for the fans lets start working on him
square: hollup. we wanna be dlc in the next game tho
sakurai: wait really what the heck. thats lame.
square: ugh i guess its fine to put cloud in the base game but thats it.
sakurai: what am i supposed to do with all this geno stuff??????
square: make him dlc i guess i dont care
sakurai: [puts geno on hold until further notice]
square and nintendo: hey sakurai use geno's redesign from this upcoming remake and dont reveal him until we reveal this game
sakurai: ok well were gonna have to rename this Geno (original) spirit because nobody knows about his redesign yet

yeah so anyway geno is basically already confirmed im gonna go celebrate if u dont mind

I don't think Porky not having a spirit increases his chances.
*cough* absolutely safe capsule *cough*
 
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The Anigriffin

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You missed the point. K Rool laid the foundation for the series, but Dixie is the framework of modern DK. Dixie is just far more relevant and dare I say prominent than K Rool, and Cranky and Funky also proved damaging to K Rool's chances simply because he hasn't been around for ages.
>Relevant

Bro... You are in a Geno thread saying a character is more likely because of relevancy.

Also, how could you say "protagonists before antagonists" if they just added K Rool over Dixie? Porky is both more prominent, relevant, promising (moveset wise), and defining of his series than Ninten.
I say that because Diddy Kong exists. Diddy Kong is the player two to DK. As much as I like Dixie she is a player 3 overshadowed by both the other two.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Porky isn't the antagonist of just Mother 1. He's in all 3 games. Ninten has many issues. He already is similar enough in design to Ness that they'd need to use his non-canon designs just to work, but they already have two movesets that are Ness-based. Porky adds something Ninten does not, a unique moveset. He also isn't on a severe request level either, though I'm not sure Porky is super highly requested either. I know Porky has a pretty nice fanbase, respectively, though it feels like a small one as I haven't seen a lot of requests for him in general. I question what Ninten will do to make him stand out to be worth it.

The thing with ones like Wolf is he was based upon Fox's moveset, but highly different in return. We didn't get an echo for any trio as of yet. Roy didn't get an Echo till he became highly different from Marth at that point. Not to say he doesn't still clearly have some Marth in him, but we don't have a Main Character + Clone + Echo combo yet. Albeit, this is just a fact of what's going on, not exactly why Ninten is unlikely. For Ninten, why do they need to repeat the same moveset literally 3 times? What would he bring to the table to represent Mother 1 well? Lucas still shows off Mother 3 with many different A moves, only sharing the usual B moves or similar ones to Ness because they also exist in Mother 3. For Mother 1, he needs to stand out and show off something unique, while still having his own thing to bring to the table. For instance, one of the team members in Mother 1 actually uses a type of sword. That could be incorporated as a possible attack.

But unless they really do something to make him feel worthwhile, Porky stands out better. There's kind of no denying that Mother 2 is pretty much Mother 1 REMAKE in just about every way but the exact party members and a few small changes. Same story, more or less very similar characters, even the same final boss. It's pretty important to look at what might be interesting to do or how to represent it first. Not because Ninten is a protagonist, which isn't a big deal. But because he's the only one notable enough in Mother 1 on his own to make for a good combination moveset to properly represent the game and all of its unique differences from Mother 2. If he can't do that, is he really worth it? Ninten is not a huge character. He has been considered redundant not just because he's basically a pre-designed Ness, but because there's nothing that makes him stand out in his game too, compared to Ness. Lucas, despite his semi-clone status, stood out with tons of different animations and a unique game.
 

The Anigriffin

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Wait what, Porky is in Mother too?
No.

See this is what I was afraid of. Whenever I mention Ninten people have to argue with me. I could write a six page essay on why I think Ninten's likely and people would still think I'm full of **** and should give up.
 
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D

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Porky isn't the antagonist of just Mother 1. He's in all 3 games. Ninten has many issues. He already is similar enough in design to Ness that they'd need to use his non-canon designs just to work, but they already have two movesets that are Ness-based. Porky adds something Ninten does not, a unique moveset. He also isn't on a severe request level either, though I'm not sure Porky is super highly requested either. I know Porky has a pretty nice fanbase, respectively, though it feels like a small one as I haven't seen a lot of requests for him in general. I question what Ninten will do to make him stand out to be worth it.

The thing with ones like Wolf is he was based upon Fox's moveset, but highly different in return. We didn't get an echo for any trio as of yet. Roy didn't get an Echo till he became highly different from Marth at that point. Not to say he doesn't still clearly have some Marth in him, but we don't have a Main Character + Clone + Echo combo yet. Albeit, this is just a fact of what's going on, not exactly why Ninten is unlikely. For Ninten, why do they need to repeat the same moveset literally 3 times? What would he bring to the table to represent Mother 1 well? Lucas still shows off Mother 3 with many different A moves, only sharing the usual B moves or similar ones to Ness because they also exist in Mother 3. For Mother 1, he needs to stand out and show off something unique, while still having his own thing to bring to the table. For instance, one of the team members in Mother 1 actually uses a type of sword. That could be incorporated as a possible attack.

But unless they really do something to make him feel worthwhile, Porky stands out better. There's kind of no denying that Mother 2 is pretty much Mother 1 REMAKE in just about every way but the exact party members and a few small changes. Same story, more or less very similar characters, even the same final boss. It's pretty important to look at what might be interesting to do or how to represent it first. Not because Ninten is a protagonist, which isn't a big deal. But because he's the only one notable enough in Mother 1 on his own to make for a good combination moveset to properly represent the game and all of its unique differences from Mother 2. If he can't do that, is he really worth it? Ninten is not a huge character. He has been considered redundant not just because he's basically a pre-designed Ness, but because there's nothing that makes him stand out in his game too, compared to Ness. Lucas, despite his semi-clone status, stood out with tons of different animations and a unique game.
You are assuming that Ninten doesn't bring anything unique to the roster because he looks like Ness.

Ninten has unique moveset potential, as I explained in my post before this one.

Next year is the 30th anniversary of Ninten's game specifically.

And...everything else is assuming "Porky would be better" which is, again, opinional

I also saw you say that he is the antagonist of Mother 1. He isn't. Earthbound and Mother 3, not Mother 1
 
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DaxMasterix

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You are assuming that Ninten doesn't bring anything unique to the roster because he looks like Ness.

Ninten has unique moveset potential, as I explained in my post before this one.

Next year is the 30th anniversary of Ninten's game specifically.

And...everything else is assuming "Porky would be better" which is, again, opinional
I know Ninten can bring an uniq moveset, but I wouldn't mind if Porky ends being the Newcomer and Ninten a Lucas' Echo or some sort of.

(And here between us, I want Kumatora the most..)
 

Tetrin

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>Relevant

Bro... You are in a Geno thread saying a character is more likely because of relevancy.



I say that because Diddy Kong exists. Diddy Kong is the player two to DK. As much as I like Dixie she is a player 3 overshadowed by both the other two.
How selective do you intend on being? Relevant was not my only argument.

Also, I'd argue Geno is insurmountably more relevant than the both of them for the sheer amount of fanservice he gets (which, on the subject, I'd argue Porky has more of than Ninten as of late). What's more, he'd represent a subseries of Mario, and he's definitely more viable than Fawful since Fawful has a notably smaller support group than us.
 
D

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I know Ninten can bring an uniq moveset, but I wouldn't mind if Porky ends being the Newcomer and Ninten a Lucas' Echo or some sort of.

(And here between us, I want Kumatora the most..)
A Lucas echo could work since Ninten and Lucas have more in common than Ninten and Ness, but a unique moveset represents Ninten better from the game he is from
 

The Anigriffin

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How selective do you intend on being? Relevant was not my only argument.

Also, I'd argue Geno is insurmountably more relevant than the both of them for the sheer amount of fanservice he gets (which, on the subject, I'd argue Porky has more of than Ninten as of late). What's more, he'd represent a subseries of Mario, and he's definitely more viable than Fawful since Fawful has a notably smaller support group than us.
You thinking a character is better/more relevant ≠ what we're gonna get.

If you're arguing support groups, Claus had just as much if not more than Porky did. Porky's only more popular now because muh villians and "he's missing a spirit" which isn't true.

Does a character HAVE to represent something? Why can't we just have characters for funsies?

Anyway I'm done arguing. Just saying, all your evidence for Porky is just a matter of your personal opinions. So let's all just chill.
 

TheBeastHimself

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uh 90% of people rank Mother 1 as their least favorite game in the series. Porky has a major presence in the beloved EarthBound and Mother 3. I hate to say it, but Ninten as a character is a blank slate and I have no idea what kind of charm he could bring to Smash Bros besides being a bland RPG character. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't want him, because I'd be excited, but compared to Porky and his fun yet maniacal nature, I just don't really see him standing too much of a chance anymore.
 
D

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uh 90% of people rank Mother 1 as their least favorite game in the series. Porky has a major presence in the beloved EarthBound and Mother 3. I hate to say it, but Ninten as a character is a blank slate and I have no idea what kind of charm he could bring to Smash Bros besides being a bland RPG character. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't want him, because I'd be excited, but compared to Porky and his fun yet maniacal nature, I just don't really see him standing too much of a chance anymore.
Have you looked at mine and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin 's explanations of Ninten's personality and charm in the Ninten thread?

Please read them. That's your only argument, which is, again, opinional
 

Tetrin

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You thinking a character is better/more relevant ≠ what we're gonna get.

If you're arguing support groups, Claus had just as much if not more than Porky did. Porky's only more popular now because muh villians and "he's missing a spirit" which isn't true.

Does a character HAVE to represent something? Why can't we just have characters for funsies?

Anyway I'm done arguing. Just saying, all your evidence for Porky is just a matter of your personal opinions. So let's all just chill.
I think what's most frustrating here is that you're dismissing all my evidence as opinionated, but it's definitely not. Porky is objectively more relevant and prominent than Ninten. You also haven't brought up any valid points apart from irrelevant ballots from years prior and rhetorical questions.

It doesn't matter where his popularity came from, what matters is he's popular. Same with K Rool and even Geno.

Claus HAD, not has. Porky is leaps and bounds ahead of Claus now.

We can have characters added for the hell of it, but this doesn't help your stance at all, and I don't see why it's worth bringing up.

I'll stop arguing too, but I highly recommend you actually bring up relevant points instead of incessantly resorting to your blatant bias to defend a stance.

Have you looked at mine and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin 's explanations of Ninten's personality and charm in the Ninten thread?

Please read them. That's your only argument, which is, again, opinional
(I know I said I'd stop, but I just had to).

Charm is synonymous with appeal, which is literally the most subjective thing ever, and you're talking about opinion based arguments. His personality will "charm" different people, and so "charm" is founded entirely on opinions.
 
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The Anigriffin

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I think what's most frustrating here is that you're dismissing all my evidence as opinionated, but it's definitely not. Porky is objectively more relevant and prominent than Ninten. You also haven't brought up any valid points apart from irrelevant ballots from years prior and rhetorical questions.

It doesn't matter where his popularity came from, what matters is he's popular. Same with K Rool and even Geno.

Claus HAD, not has. Porky is leaps and bounds ahead of Claus now.

We can have characters added for the hell of it, but this doesn't help your stance at all, and I don't see why it's worth bringing up.

I'll stop arguing too, but I highly recommend you actually bring up relevant points instead of incessantly resorting to your blatant bias to defend a stance.
Relevancy isn't a good argument when like you said Dixie was more relevant than K. Rool. Literally your only evidence is relevancy which is not a good argument.

Edit: Thanks you made me derail the damn thread again.
 
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D

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I think what's most frustrating here is that you're dismissing all my evidence as opinionated, but it's definitely not. Porky is objectively more relevant and prominent than Ninten. You also haven't brought up any valid points apart from irrelevant ballots from years prior and rhetorical questions.

It doesn't matter where his popularity came from, what matters is he's popular. Same with K Rool and even Geno.

Claus HAD, not has. Porky is leaps and bounds ahead of Claus now.

We can have characters added for the hell of it, but this doesn't help your stance at all, and I don't see why it's worth bringing up.

I'll stop arguing too, but I highly recommend you actually bring up relevant points instead of incessantly resorting to your blatant bias to defend a stance.
She isn't using her bias as an argument. Instead, you are. Being more relevant does not equal more likely. Look at King K Rool, Ice Climbers, and Pit
 

Sovereign Trinity

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I'm also fairly certain most if not all these characters were considered for Smash/liked by Sakurai so that kinda helps.
Sakurai actually had plans to add Banjo in Melee, but he didn't because he didn't want to go through the trouble of getting the rights from Rare, despite how easier it would've been back then since Nintendo had 49% of Rare at the time. As much as I want Banjo in, I'm not sure if Sakurai would be up for it again. He'd have to go through Microsoft to get to Rare to get to Banjo, it's not going through his favorite company to get to Banjo like all those years ago.

I think Sakurai is actually happy he turned down Banjo back during Melee's development because EVERYONE IS HERE definitely wouldn't have happened. Microsoft is almost about on the same level of strictness as Square is.
Sony is rapidly sinking their own ship so I don't think its out of discussion for squeenix to finally jump ship. But if they do, it's likely they will try and jump to microsoft, as they already produce a LOT of content also for them. Not sure why they still feel so burned by Nintendo backing out on the n64 disc drive, seems like a pointless hill to die on, especially with the insane success of bravely default and octopath, the former being meh in my eyes but sales are sales.
I actually had a similar talk with my friend about this. The only thing that's saving them is Kingdom Hearts III and the Final Fantasy VII remake, and then after that, Sony's probably going to throw them overboard. Hopefully they go to Nintendo or Microsoft, I'll take either one because I'd love to have some of Square's content on my Nintendo Switch and Xbox.
 
D

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I think what's most frustrating here is that you're dismissing all my evidence as opinionated, but it's definitely not. Porky is objectively more relevant and prominent than Ninten. You also haven't brought up any valid points apart from irrelevant ballots from years prior and rhetorical questions.

It doesn't matter where his popularity came from, what matters is he's popular. Same with K Rool and even Geno.

Claus HAD, not has. Porky is leaps and bounds ahead of Claus now.

We can have characters added for the hell of it, but this doesn't help your stance at all, and I don't see why it's worth bringing up.

I'll stop arguing too, but I highly recommend you actually bring up relevant points instead of incessantly resorting to your blatant bias to defend a stance.


(I know I said I'd stop, but I just had to).

Charm is synonymous with appeal, which is literally the most subjective thing ever, and you're talking about opinion based arguments. His personality will "charm" different people, and so "charm" is founded entirely on opinions.
Then in that case, TheBeastHimself TheBeastHimself can't use "charm" as an argument
 

Xigger

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Most of it is in the thread. I was here when he told us about the Pokémon Let's GO spirits, Geno DLC rumor, the certain "type" of DLC characters (promotion or fan favorite wise), and about no one knowing who the DLC is. I wasn't on this thread during the time when Polar told us about this, but Fatmanonice told a few of us many weeks ago about Polar's source saying Isaac and Shadow being assist trophies before they were shown in the November Direct, and his source said something about Rathalos being a boss before it was revealed in the August Direct. Pretty insane, huh?

I actually liked PolarPanda being more less-known; I liked it that way because Polar would talk to us more often about anything, whether it involved his source or not, but he's been caught in a lot of stuff lately due to being more recognized now. There was another dude on here that had a profile picture of some anime character holding cards, they were an insider, too, but I don't know where they went nor do I remember their name. If we get Geno or when the DLC ends, I can't wait for both of those two to come back and talk to us more often again. :)
Makes sense. Not everything can be leaked without repurcussions. If only I wasn't too lazy to search through the whole thread and find it... Either way, my optimism is still pretty good!
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Wait what, Porky is in Mother too?
I legitimately forgot that. Though it doesn't change that Mother 2 rehashed Mother 1's story. Giegue and Giygas are extremely similar for a reason.

You are assuming that Ninten doesn't bring anything unique to the roster because he looks like Ness.

Ninten has unique moveset potential, as I explained in my post before this one.

Next year is the 30th anniversary of Ninten's game specifically.

And...everything else is assuming "Porky would be better" which is, again, opinional

I also saw you say that he is the antagonist of Mother 1. He isn't. Earthbound and Mother 3, not Mother 1
The problem is, he works as an Echo just as much. Already owned up to the correction on the Porky thing. My bad(it's part of this post a bit up above).

Here's the thing with the Mother Protagonists; they are designed so they represent the game's vast abilities moreso than themselves. That means that besides that Nintendo can work perfectly as an Echo(since he's an easy addition and outside of needing some design changes so you won't confuse him with Ness, which is pretty easy as Dark Pit shows), he also is important to show off the other things specific to Mother 1. The weapons, abilities, etc. Like instead of using the Bat, he could use the Katana that one of the other members has for his Smash attack. Stuff like that. If he's a carbon copy of Ness, which he perfectly wells fine as overall, what does he bring? Echo or not, the important part is that he represents his game first and foremost to fit the narrative of how the Mother protagonists work. They aren't just themselves. They have PSI from all party members. To make Ninten stand out, simply using his own PSI isn't enough. You already have your differences with Ness and Lucas to a big degree.

Here's one thing I don't like seeing; why should he get in just because it's the anniversary of his game. That's literally "let's add him in just for the sake of getting a Mother 1 character in". That shouldn't even be a reason. He's more than that. If he's so unique, he can get in on his own merits. Characters shouldn't be added just to promote a game alone. Also, there's no denying that Ninten looks like a slightly less detailed Ness, meaning a new design or enough changes is absolutely important. Besides that, Mother 1 was never on the table because the game wasn't relevant. It wasn't worldwide. Ness already did the job of representing the full series at that point since the gameplay was the same. It's why it's important that Ninten isn't just unique in some way(aesthetics alone is nice. See: Daisy), but it's also important to choose him because it feels like a reason to go for him. When you look at him, why do you want him? To have an alternate Ness-esque moveset that is more about Ninten than his party members? Because he's simply a protagonist?(Also, Porky is the antagonist of a game Ninten isn't in. That means you wouldn't be adding his antagonist before him. You'd be adding Porky after his protagonists he faces are in. So it fits that narrative fine. Porky coming after Ness and Lucas makes sense. He has nothing to do with Ninten if we care about protagonists and antagonists in itself. It should only be because they're connected via story. As you might notice, I was wrong on Porky. That also throws a flaw into what you said. If a protagonist should get in before their antagonist, that means that Ninten is not competition for Porky under that particular "rule" of yours).

I could go on, but the point stands that both Ninten and Porky are good choices, but they also have very different roles and reasons to be in. Plus, keep in mind some want more villains in because they like the interaction of Heroes VS Villains. It's shallow, perhaps, but it makes sense. Many games have a good and bad guy. Smash is full of bad guys too. Having one's villain makes Smash feel more complete. I won't pretend it's the best reasoning in itself, but it's a bit better than simply "we must add every protagonist before any villain", really. That's not a good narrative. I agree it makes sense the player character, which is always the protagonist of the story, should have normal first dibs over the antagonist(note, I don't mean Hero and Villain here. You can have villain protagonists too). However, one thing should be noted that Mascots also can have higher priority over the player character/protagonist as well. Pikachu is proof of that. In certain games, the best option can be the protagonist or mascot for first dibs. You have to look at the entire game and how it's played. You have to also take into account the Smash game. Trophies are gone. A game's lore is unlikely to be as notable now, so a protagonist shouldn't be added because of their lore itself. It's not really able to be translated into Smash. That might mean the mascot is the smarter first choice. So it comes down to moveset potential. That said, I think Porky would fill out the series better first, but Ninten could still work fine if they add both. I think an echo with altered moves so they represent his team mates might work best, with Porky being more unique. It's fine if you want Ninten more, of course. But keep in mind the flaw in you reasoning of "all protagonists before antagonists".

...Yeah, that's a lot to say.
 

Sovereign Trinity

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I've thought he was a lock for quite a while now. It makes way too much sense given everything we know. I feel like Erdrick is leakbait. Suddenly Erdrick gets a few insiders behind him, and all the miles of paperwork and multiple companies don't matter? He's been requested since Melee, but consistently and highly requested since brawl. Sakurai wants him in. He is one of VERY FEW 3rd party mii outfits that isn't replaced by either appearing in another character's moveset, or being an assist trophy. This list includes: Geno, Jacky, Lloyd, that monster hunter outfit (who is represented by rathalos assist, tbh), and Tails (who appears on a stage) I firmly believe that every single DLC character we get will either be a non-repped 3rd party, or an ace/legendary spirit that is also an online icon.

There's also the fact that a square rep has been rumored for so long now, but hasn't been revealed. Why is that? There's a really reasonable explanation, but it only works if the rep in question is Geno.

sakurai: alright cool now that clouds in smash 4 we can also add geno in the next game for the fans lets start working on him
square: hollup. we wanna be dlc in the next game tho
sakurai: wait really what the heck. thats lame.
square: ugh i guess its fine to put cloud in the base game but thats it.
sakurai: what am i supposed to do with all this geno stuff??????
square: make him dlc i guess i dont care
sakurai: [puts geno on hold until further notice]
square and nintendo: hey sakurai use geno's redesign from this upcoming remake and dont reveal him until we reveal this game
sakurai: ok well were gonna have to rename this Geno (original) spirit because nobody knows about his redesign yet
No, you perfectly explained it. I can actually see this happening, except only one-word answers from the both of them.
Square: So, how you've been?
Nintendo: Good.
Square: ...
Nintendo: Listen, I'm really sorry about cussing you out all those years ago like twenty times.
Square: No worries.
Nintendo: Hey, so... Can I have the last doughnut?
Square: No.
Nintendo: Okay...
 

Tetrin

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Relevancy isn't a good argument when like you said Dixie was more relevant than K. Rool. Literally your only evidence is relevancy which is not a good argument.
Then quote my previous posts. No, I'll do it for you:
Porky is both more prominent, relevant, promising (moveset wise), and defining of his series than Ninten.
That's 3 arguments you completely ignored. Not to mention I only used Dixie as an example to directly counteract your statement of "protagonists before antagonists". K Rool was also added through fanservice, which I might add, Porky has more of.

And Zack E. I hadn't seen your quote before, but I'm tired so I'll give you the basic outline of why Ninten is too similar to Ness:
>Smash doesn't care about your in game moves. Lucas had way different abilities than Ness in his game, and yet, he's a semi clone.
>Ness and Ninten both share a fondness for baseball, and albeit largely insignificant, that's one move in the bag as identical.
>Porky would definitely make more money and I'd like you to prove me wrong. Porky has more fans, more possibilities for moves, and appeals to a much less niche audience since he had a major role in Subspace.
>Next year is the anniversary of both the first game and the franchise as a whole, you're being selective.
>Boomerangs would still borrow from existing characters, and with that eliminated, you only presented 4 moves that would be truly one of a kind, which is dwarfed by the amount of similar moves they'd have.

Then in that case, TheBeastHimself TheBeastHimself can't use "charm" as an argument
Ok??? We're not tag teaming, so I don't care.

She isn't using her bias as an argument. Instead, you are. Being more relevant does not equal more likely. Look at King K Rool, Ice Climbers, and Pit
But I'm not, and you're being selective like Anigriffin. I never said relevance was the only factor that puts Porky ahead of Ninten, and I even quoted myself in this same post as proof.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Sakurai actually had plans to add Banjo in Melee, but he didn't because he didn't want to go through the trouble of getting the rights from Rare, despite how easier it would've been back then since Nintendo had 49% of Rare at the time. As much as I want Banjo in, I'm not sure if Sakurai would be up for it again. He'd have to go through Microsoft to get to Rare to get to Banjo, it's not going through his favorite company to get to Banjo like all those years ago.

I think Sakurai is actually happy he turned down Banjo back during Melee's development because EVERYONE IS HERE definitely wouldn't have happened. Microsoft is almost about on the same level of strictness as Square is.
I'm going to correct this. He never planned to have him in. He said he considered him and dismissed him due to 3rd party issues. It's unclear how heavily he considered him, but he did not put him on any project plan. He briefly mentioned the character as an unfeasible option, noting that he was still a great choice in itself.
 

The Anigriffin

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You know what.

Let's bring some positivity into this thread rather then debating about a character not at all related to the topic because the debate is tiring and no one is gonna win because the debate is with opinions and not facts anyway.

What is your favorite Mario game BESIDES Mario RPG? I personally really liked the Galaxy games.
 
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Sovereign Trinity

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I'm going to correct this. He never planned to have him in. He said he considered him and dismissed him due to 3rd party issues. It's unclear how heavily he considered him, but he did not put him on any project plan. He briefly mentioned the character as an unfeasible option, noting that he was still a great choice in itself.
Sorry, I made a mistake. I meant to say considered, not planned. :/
 

Tetrin

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You know what.

Let's bring some positivity into this thread rather then debating about a character not at all relelated character because the debate is tiring and no one is gonna win because the debate is with opinions and not facts anyway.

What is your favorite Mario game BESIDES Mario RPG? I personally really liked the Galaxy games.
Do spinoff titles count?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I legitimately forgot that. Though it doesn't change that Mother 2 rehashed Mother 1's story. Giegue and Giygas are extremely similar for a reason.


The problem is, he works as an Echo just as much. Already owned up to the correction on the Porky thing. My bad(it's part of this post a bit up above).

Here's the thing with the Mother Protagonists; they are designed so they represent the game's vast abilities moreso than themselves. That means that besides that Nintendo can work perfectly as an Echo(since he's an easy addition and outside of needing some design changes so you won't confuse him with Ness, which is pretty easy as Dark Pit shows), he also is important to show off the other things specific to Mother 1. The weapons, abilities, etc. Like instead of using the Bat, he could use the Katana that one of the other members has for his Smash attack. Stuff like that. If he's a carbon copy of Ness, which he perfectly wells fine as overall, what does he bring? Echo or not, the important part is that he represents his game first and foremost to fit the narrative of how the Mother protagonists work. They aren't just themselves. They have PSI from all party members. To make Ninten stand out, simply using his own PSI isn't enough. You already have your differences with Ness and Lucas to a big degree.

Here's one thing I don't like seeing; why should he get in just because it's the anniversary of his game. That's literally "let's add him in just for the sake of getting a Mother 1 character in". That shouldn't even be a reason. He's more than that. If he's so unique, he can get in on his own merits. Characters shouldn't be added just to promote a game alone. Also, there's no denying that Ninten looks like a slightly less detailed Ness, meaning a new design or enough changes is absolutely important. Besides that, Mother 1 was never on the table because the game wasn't relevant. It wasn't worldwide. Ness already did the job of representing the full series at that point since the gameplay was the same. It's why it's important that Ninten isn't just unique in some way(aesthetics alone is nice. See: Daisy), but it's also important to choose him because it feels like a reason to go for him. When you look at him, why do you want him? To have an alternate Ness-esque moveset that is more about Ninten than his party members? Because he's simply a protagonist?(Also, Porky is the antagonist of a game Ninten isn't in. That means you wouldn't be adding his antagonist before him. You'd be adding Porky after his protagonists he faces are in. So it fits that narrative fine. Porky coming after Ness and Lucas makes sense. He has nothing to do with Ninten if we care about protagonists and antagonists in itself. It should only be because they're connected via story. As you might notice, I was wrong on Porky. That also throws a flaw into what you said. If a protagonist should get in before their antagonist, that means that Ninten is not competition for Porky under that particular "rule" of yours).

I could go on, but the point stands that both Ninten and Porky are good choices, but they also have very different roles and reasons to be in. Plus, keep in mind some want more villains in because they like the interaction of Heroes VS Villains. It's shallow, perhaps, but it makes sense. Many games have a good and bad guy. Smash is full of bad guys too. Having one's villain makes Smash feel more complete. I won't pretend it's the best reasoning in itself, but it's a bit better than simply "we must add every protagonist before any villain", really. That's not a good narrative. I agree it makes sense the player character, which is always the protagonist of the story, should have normal first dibs over the antagonist(note, I don't mean Hero and Villain here. You can have villain protagonists too). However, one thing should be noted that Mascots also can have higher priority over the player character/protagonist as well. Pikachu is proof of that. In certain games, the best option can be the protagonist or mascot for first dibs. You have to look at the entire game and how it's played. You have to also take into account the Smash game. Trophies are gone. A game's lore is unlikely to be as notable now, so a protagonist shouldn't be added because of their lore itself. It's not really able to be translated into Smash. That might mean the mascot is the smarter first choice. So it comes down to moveset potential. That said, I think Porky would fill out the series better first, but Ninten could still work fine if they add both. I think an echo with altered moves so they represent his team mates might work best, with Porky being more unique. It's fine if you want Ninten more, of course. But keep in mind the flaw in you reasoning of "all protagonists before antagonists".

...Yeah, that's a lot to say.
Mother 1 was added to virtual console and called "Earthbound Beginnings" during the Smash Ballot. The game has been released worldwide.

The official Japanese Mother 1 commercial shows Ninten wearing a bandana with a red, blue, and white stripes shirt. Also, the design argument is weak when Pichu, Dr. Mario, and the different Links are unique characters. Also, remember Pit from Brawl? Sakurai gave him a spectacular redesign, so there is no denying he could do the same with Ninten
 

Tetrin

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In that case, Super Mario World, Mario 64, Mario Kart Wii (custom tracks too, even though those aren't official), Odyssey, and 3D Land.

I can't judge Galaxy games since I never got around to beating them, but from what I've played, I hated their controls.
 

TheBeastHimself

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What is your favorite Mario game BESIDES Mario RPG? I personally really liked the Galaxy games.
I'd have to say Super Mario 64. I got introduced to the game via Super Mario 64 DS (I was born a couple years after the original), and then bought the original game and played heck out of it.
 
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