Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Right, but if that’s the case...why? We’ve established SE usually has a formula in the way they handle DLC right? So presumably, this time around they didn’t want Geno in unless we had to pay correct? But don’t they only prioritize their most popular game? So why did they let us have just a Geno spirit and not a Mii Costume? If that’s the case. If they allegedly don’t care about Geno and don’t see him as an important character? Money? Or do they not care enough so “here I guess they can have a spirit but that’s it”, even so, how hard could it have been for an AT? They’d have to care a LITTLE bit to not even allow that, if that’s the narrative.



You know, you’re absolutely correct lol right at the bottom



Right, which is usually the argument. But all of the 3rd party costumes with the exception of a few, make appearances in Smash U outside of Spirits. Zero AT, Proto Man, Megaman X and EXE in Mega Man’s FS, Heihachi in PAC Man’s Taunt, Rathalos Boss and AT, Tails was already in the background. And now with Lloyd being rumored DLC that would make, I think ONLY Geno, not represented outside of Spirits? Which is strange right?

As much as I think Geno is getting in, this is stretching it. I don't think we're getting a playable chocobo, and I don't think we're getting a mii wizard (they removed the mage outfit for gunner??? why???) as much as I'd love the latter. Geno's costume is gone because *all* 3rd party costumes are gone. We're likely to get most of them back via DLC.

 

[Dan]

What can we speculate as the reason for the costume not returning? Square simply wanting too much money? Even if Geno's DLC there's no reason not to include it in the base game (and would make for an even bigger surprise); it's such an odd omission for such a small thing, but I did hear Cloud was the most difficult character to bring back, so they probably realized the costumes weren't worth it if they had to shell out on top of him - as far as I can see, Smash is the best free advertisement out there, so people should just be giving them their characters since there's a 99% chance Smash is bigger than their game.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

It wouldn't make much sense from a business perspective to say that spirits disqualify DLC (If it did) since that fact may dissuade people from buying the fighter pass or even the game entirely if they knew for a fact their favorite character might not be playable. It's best to remain ambiguous.

There's also the matter in case it only disconfirms fighters as early as Season 1 and they may make it into a potential Season 2 if Season 1 does swell enough financially.

 

[childishgamgeno]

As much as I think Geno is getting in, this is stretching it. I don't think we're getting a playable chocobo, and I don't think we're getting a mii wizard (they removed the mage outfit for gunner??? why???) as much as I'd love the latter. Geno's costume is gone because *all* 3rd party costumes are gone. We're likely to get most of them back via DLC.

But how far am I stretching it tho? We all keep saying this is Smash where anything can happen. We’re probably not getting a playable Chocobo, but that’s different from all the other 3rd party costumes who ended up represented in Smash. I’m not saying it’s means as to a definite Geno inclusion, I’m saying it’s strange given how all the other costumes with the exception of now Lloyd and Geno are now represented in Smash U, in game, outside of Spirits mode in some way shape or form. All the 3rd Party Mii Costumes are gone yes, I know that everyone keeps reminding me, but all of those CHARACTERS are not, and that’s what I find strange.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Right, but if that’s the case...why? We’ve established SE usually has a formula in the way they handle DLC right? So presumably, this time around they didn’t want Geno in unless we had to pay correct? But don’t they only prioritize their most popular game? So why did they let us have just a Geno spirit and not a Mii Costume? If that’s the case. If they allegedly don’t care about Geno and don’t see him as an important character? Money? Or do they not care enough so “here I guess they can have a spirit but that’s it”, even so, how hard could it have been for an AT? They’d have to care a LITTLE bit to not even allow that, if that’s the narrative.



You know, you’re absolutely correct lol right at the bottom



Right, which is usually the argument. But all of the 3rd party costumes with the exception of a few, make appearances in Smash U outside of Spirits. Zero AT, Proto Man, Megaman X and EXE in Mega Man’s FS, Heihachi in PAC Man’s Taunt, Rathalos Boss and AT, Tails was already in the background. And now with Lloyd being rumored DLC that would make, I think ONLY Geno, not represented outside of Spirits? Which is strange right?

If I have to take a guess , SE would have say no because it would need more work and no money. And giving exposure to Geno don't matter to them , if they don't plan to make a SMRPG game (HD/2).
That's why they were okay with the spirits , It's just artworks.

And 3rd party costume in Sm4sh were a way for 3rd party to get a little extra cash and give something to the fans.

Now , 3rd parties don't get much money out of it. And well , Sakurai still had to decide as to wich costume he wanted to upgrade or change form. As you said , 90% of the 3rd parties Mii costumes got something else. Sakurai and his team give the fans as much as possible.
Just look at the Rayman spirit , he was a trophy back in Sm4sh , and they could have stick with Kingdom Battle spirits , but picked Rayman along the way. It's a way to say "He/She's here.".

But for Geno , a character requested since Brawl , acknowledged by Sakurai who wanted him playable? This seem ... Strange that he "only" got a spirit. If SE was a fat NO for a playable Geno , I'm sure Sakurai would have asked for an AT/Costume.
But I think that SE is the unknown factor in all of this.

Thanks to A.G.L. , and other peoples , we know how SE operate with DLC and content wich aren't on their games.
They are greedy and give the minimum , 2 tracks + character.

Cloud beeing in the SSBU base roster was the first Time in History that SE content was in a Nintendo game without beeing DLC. That's a big thing.
Maybe Sakurai didn't wanted to push his luck with Geno too much , and just asked for the artworks.
There is still the possibility that Sakurai convinced SE to use Geno as DLC to give them more profit , because he was a heavily requested and easier character for sharing profits. It would be a realistic possibility , since Cloud was in base.

However , NoJ picked the DLC.
I don't think It's impossible for Sakurai to ask for Geno early and NoJ beeing fine with it , but... If he only got the artwork , and want Geno playable , he would have to negotiate again with SE. Not impossible , since NoJ would be on his side. Especially with how well SE are selling their games on the Switch , they could be willing to let him get their character , if they wanted to be safe.
And if they wanted cross-promotion badly... DQ is a legal nightmare and a franchise that struggle in the West since 32 years , Sora is Disney and get a new games each 4/5 years , Chrono is dead (Sadly)... And I don't even think that Neku would benefit them that much.

They would have to go through the FF route because of the avalanche of FF games coming to Switch. But then Sakurai and NoJ need to be interested beforehand and...








Square Enix , why can't you just sell the SMRPG properties to Nintendo ?!

 

[Deleted member]

I just need him in

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news but according to this, it's possible that the reason Geno's costume isn't in the base game is because they intend to release the costume later as paid DLC seperate from the Fighter Packs. I would very much like to be wrong about this since despite not having played SMRPG, Geno looks like he would fit in just nicely in SSBU IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news but according to this, it's possible that the reason Geno's costume isn't in the base game is because they intend to release the costume later as paid DLC seperate from the Fighter Packs. I would very much like to be wrong about this since despite not having played SMRPG, Geno looks like he would fit in just nicely in SSBU IMO.

Well, we have gone over this already, and it's actually good news in case Geno can't be playable, we get the Mii costume. A Mii costume is a possibility for any character tho, not just Geno

All third part Mii costumes are gone too

 

[Ovaltine]

I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news but according to this, it's possible that the reason Geno's costume isn't in the base game is because they intend to release the costume later as paid DLC seperate from the Fighter Packs. I would very much like to be wrong about this since despite not having played SMRPG, Geno looks like he would fit in just nicely in SSBU IMO.

That's actually odd, given Reggie has gone on record to say that paid Mii costume DLC isn't planned yet, and that was only stated less than a month ago. I have a feeling the webmaster did something odd on NoA's site, perhaps because of the presence of the Rex Mii costume in the Fighter's Pass. I wouldn't hold my breath on the Mii outfit coming back on this alone just yet, as much as I'd love it back in case Geno can't be DLC otherwise.

 

[childishgamgeno]

What can we speculate as the reason for the costume not returning? Square simply wanting too much money? Even if Geno's DLC there's no reason not to include it in the base game (and would make for an even bigger surprise); it's such an odd omission for such a small thing, but I did hear Cloud was the most difficult character to bring back, so they probably realized the costumes weren't worth it if they had to shell out on top of him - as far as I can see, Smash is the best free advertisement out there, so people should just be giving them their characters since there's a 99% chance Smash is bigger than their game.

Of course, I think the “why isn’t Geno’s costume in” should extend to “why aren’t any of the 3rd party costumes in”
And I kind of think the 3rd party costumes aren’t returning because there is no need for them, since these characters are making appearances in Smash. Remember, the whole idea of Miis being in Smash is based around the idea that “Anyone is playable” so you can create a Mii that kind of looks like a character or a person you want and give them the fighting style closest to that character and boom. You want Goku? Make your Mii have black spilt hair and wear Orange with a fighter style and there. Goku is (kind of) in Smash. Of course there are limits to this, and this, Mii Costumes That are more accurate. But do people WANT to play as Rathalos? Not so much? Well we want to SEE Rathalos. PUT HIM IN THEN. And we don’t need to ask for rights for making Mii Costume assets cuz he’s already in the game and the company still gets their cut. Cut Megaman EXE and ProtoMan because now they’re in the game. Zero is an AT now! Why fight as a somewhat copy of Zero when you can fight alongside the REAL thing?? And remember Polar said NoA thought people like ATs and didn’t think people took them as straight deconfirms. Why put Heihachi in, when Akira has pretty much the same moveset, and you could just wear a fighter Gi??

Which is why Geno’s is so strange. It’s not like SE is getting NO money from his inclusion, Nintendo has to pay for the rights to use him. Similar to Mario SSS, Geno’s spirit and Gamer Tag are glorified cameos. They still have to pay Square for that. But this doesn’t fall under the “well he’s in the game so fans should be happy” category like Isaac does. Because...he’s technically not. Not even in the carbon copy we had. My guess is maybe Nintendo didn’t want to sell people characters outside of their franchises? (Even though that wouldn’t make sense cuz Geno is a Mario universe character) maybe the team wanted to save space? So they couldn’t fit in all the 3rd party Miis?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If spirits deconfirm, I do wonder if the conspicuous absences like Sylux, Adeleine, etc aren't deliberately left open spots, in the event they ever decided to make them playable for a pass 2, while saving some of the biggest surprises for the first pass.

In regards to Heihachi, I knew he'd be deconfirmed by default, since Incineroar was Unshou Ishizuka's final voice recorded role. I imagine that the Pac-Man taunt cameo is the team's own small way of paying their respects to Mr. Ishizuka, since third party Mii costumes are not coming back.

 

[childishgamgeno]

I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news but according to this, it's possible that the reason Geno's costume isn't in the base game is because they intend to release the costume later as paid DLC seperate from the Fighter Packs. I would very much like to be wrong about this since despite not having played SMRPG, Geno looks like he would fit in just nicely in SSBU IMO.

I’m not sure how much I trust this link (also .75cent Mii Costume????! Were they that cheap last time? It must be just a hat or something) but yeah if true, then that makes sense and hopefully we’ll get the costume back if Geno just straight up isn’t in. EDIT: NEVERMIND. This is straight from Nintendo themselves

Also, there’s a new interview with Reggie on Forbes about Switch and DLC which really makes me think there’s not gonna be a wave 2 of DLC for this. Also, how likely is it that some of the rumored SE people aren’t fighters and are coming as future Mii Costumes?

Also also, insider alert: Hitagi claims that he’s been seeing things for a new sword user character and if that sword user character is confirmed, that it’ll be a Nintendo character. I’m super hoping it’s not FE but it might be. Could be TTouchdown. However what’s the likelihood Sakurai, in wanting to bring unique characters like Joker, would put in a Nintendo sword user and then a SE sword user...? Good for Geno?

 

[Deleted member]

If Nintendo thinks people were happy with assists and they are aware of Geno's popularity, why isn't Geno an assist

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And yet it's said in the same Forbes interview that the global president knows that DLC is important to Nintendo. Stopping after just one pass would be like deliberately plugging up a fountain of black oil.

I mean, this game has had the biggest sales in the franchise so far and seems poised to break records. I know Nintendo does their own thing, but stopping after one year like last time would seem weird when the scope is much bigger. If they really want to distribute more free DLC, they can always provide Echoes.

If Nintendo thinks people were happy with assists and they are aware of Geno's popularity, why isn't Geno an assist

SE is too complicated in legal proceedings to allow even ATs. The FF7 summons don't even get spirits, either...

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Rex is ONE character from ONE game though, there are literally 1000 Spirits and your most wanted is probably one of them. It would super discourage people from buying the pass.

Hah, my most wanted is Quote. >:D

 

[Deleted member]

And yet it's said in the same Forbes interview that the global president knows that DLC is important to Nintendo. Stopping after just one pass would be like deliberately plugging up a fountain of black oil.

I mean, this game has had the biggest sales in the franchise so far and seems poised to break records. I know Nintendo does their own thing, but stopping after one year like last time would seem weird when the scope is much bigger. If they really want to distribute more free DLC, they can always provide Echoes.



SE is too complicated in legal proceedings to allow even ATs. The FF7 summons don't even get spirits, either...

As evidence by the spirit, Sakurai and Nintendo got the rights to Geno in the base game, and Square Enix isn't very strict with how Geno is represented, and given how requested he is and that Sakurai wants him to be a playable character, I am sure they would have given Geno an AT. Mallow is a spirit too, so they negotiated for more SMRPG content than just Geno. There are also no SMRPG tracks. SE doesn't own them, Yoko Shimmomura does, and she definitely is okay with her music being in the base game, as evidence by Street Fighter tracks, such as Vega, and she let Sakurai and Nintendo use Beware the Forest's Mushrooms for the Mii costume reveal in Smash 4. I really think he would have been an assist and have music tracks if he was not going to be playable

 

[childishgamgeno]

And yet it's said in the same Forbes interview that the global president knows that DLC is important to Nintendo. Stopping after just one pass would be like deliberately plugging up a fountain of black oil.

I mean, this game has had the biggest sales in the franchise so far and seems poised to break records. I know Nintendo does their own thing, but stopping after one year like last time would seem weird when the scope is much bigger. If they really want to distribute more free DLC, they can always provide Echoes.



SE is too complicated in legal proceedings to allow even ATs. The FF7 summons don't even get spirits, either...

Right, DLC is important. But looking at the examples he gives for DLC: Breath of the Wild had two expansion packs and both released over the course of about a year, which added difficulty, enemies, and missions. That doesnt sound too hard from a development standpoint. Solution 2 has one dlc, which is an expansion pack with a bunch of missions.

Smash’s DLC not only extends to 2020 (over two additional years to an already long and probably exhausting development cycle) but it’s 5 brand new characters, new music, AND a stage. Given Sakurai’s comment as well about being fine with another 10 years before another Smash, I don’t think he wants to extend working on new content beyond 2020.

SE’s weird legal complications make it really strange as to why a lot of people are hearing DQ to me...if it was hard to get their flagship franchise in Smash, how would it be ANY easier to get their OTHER one??

As evidence by the spirit, Sakurai and Nintendo got the rights to Geno in the base game, and Square Enix isn't very strict with how Geno is represented, and given how requested he is and that Sakurai wants him to be a playable character, I am sure they would have given Geno an AT. Mallow is a spirit too, so they negotiated for more SMRPG content than just Geno. There are also no SMRPG tracks. SE doesn't own them, Yoko Shimmomura does, and she definitely is okay with her music being in the base game, as evidence by Street Fighter tracks, such as Vega, and she let Sakurai and Nintendo use Beware the Forest's Mushrooms for the Mii costume reveal in Smash 4. I really think he would have been an assist and have music tracks if he was not going to be playable

Didn’t someone say Yoko doesn’t own the music?

 

[Datboigeno]

Just wanted to throw out there that after all the Geno discussion we’ve been having I decided today to do my first playthrough of SMRPG in many years. I’m only at the Mack boss fight but I’m loving it just as much as I did when i first played it as a 6 year old(though I’m definitely working through it a lot more quickly than when I was 6 lol).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Right, DLC is important. But looking at the examples he gives for DLC: Breath of the Wild had two expansion packs and both released over the course of about a year, which added difficulty, enemies, and missions. That doesnt sound too hard from a development standpoint. Solution 2 has one dlc, which is an expansion pack with a bunch of missions.

Smash’s DLC not only extends to 2020 (over two additional years to an already long and probably exhausting development cycle) but it’s 5 brand new characters, new music, AND a stage. Given Sakurai’s comment as well about being fine with another 10 years before another Smash, I don’t think he wants to extend working on new content beyond 2020.

SE’s weird legal complications make it really strange as to why a lot of people are hearing DQ to me...if it was hard to get their flagship franchise in Smash, how would it be ANY easier to get their OTHER one??




Didn’t someone say Yoko doesn’t own the music?

We don't know whose decision it is to stop DLC after 2020, if they do so. Sakurai, or Nintendo? It feels like we still know too little about the future to know exactly how things will go (especially after so many people's theories have already been disproved by the base game alone).

I agree about DQ though. I personally don't think we'll be seeing ANY SE characters for DLC at all. There's no way they'd have them come with spirits when Cloud already has the bare minimum.

 

[Deleted member]

Right, DLC is important. But looking at the examples he gives for DLC: Breath of the Wild had two expansion packs and both released over the course of about a year, which added difficulty, enemies, and missions. That doesnt sound too hard from a development standpoint. Solution 2 has one dlc, which is an expansion pack with a bunch of missions.

Smash’s DLC not only extends to 2020 (over two additional years to an already long and probably exhausting development cycle) but it’s 5 brand new characters, new music, AND a stage. Given Sakurai’s comment as well about being fine with another 10 years before another Smash, I don’t think he wants to extend working on new content beyond 2020.

SE’s weird legal complications make it really strange as to why a lot of people are hearing DQ to me...if it was hard to get their flagship franchise in Smash, how would it be ANY easier to get their OTHER one??




Didn’t someone say Yoko doesn’t own the music?

No, I think she does own the music

Just wanted to throw out there that after all the Geno discussion we’ve been having I decided today to do my first playthrough of SMRPG in many years. I’m only at the Mack boss fight but I’m loving it just as much as I did when i first played it as a 6 year old(though I’m definitely working through it a lot more quickly than when I was 6 lol).

Oh my god. I need to do that too

 

[Zubyyyy]

Have you guys watched the SMRPG Speedruns? An incredibly fun game to watch speedran. And it's interesting because the only 'true skip' in the game is the ability to skip the Mack fight entirely. Otherwise, they run through pretty much the whole game. It's super sick.

Mack Fight Skip is dope AF though.

 

[KidCham]

If spirits deconfirm, I do wonder if the conspicuous absences like Sylux, Adeleine, etc aren't deliberately left open spots, in the event they ever decided to make them playable for a pass 2, while saving some of the biggest surprises for the first pass.

In regards to Heihachi, I knew he'd be deconfirmed by default, since Incineroar was Unshou Ishizuka's final voice recorded role. I imagine that the Pac-Man taunt cameo is the team's own small way of paying their respects to Mr. Ishizuka, since third party Mii costumes are not coming back.

Sylux maybe, why not
Adeleine certainly not, Sakurai just hates the character

 

[MattX20]

Again, there are just too many things here indicating there's something bigger for Geno beyond the spirit to me. It seems to me that going by the fact that Sakurai made it clear that Mii Fighter costumes are consolation prizes for characters in Smash, the removal of Geno and all the other 3rd party character costumes tells me that Sakurai wouldn't consider the spirit a consolation prize. He probably has bigger plans

 

[Ovaltine]

After giving it some rumination, I actually think that, if the Geno mii costume does come back, it could actually be good news for Geno.

Okay, I know that sounds ridiculous, and I even agree that it is a stretch, but hear me out. Just some food for thought and debate because I love to gobble that up, not to mislead.

If Cloud was, indeed, so difficult to get into base game and nearly caused 'everyone is here' to fold, how was it so easy for Geno and Mallow to have spirits? It's simple: they can be marketed off of later on, or at the very least, Geno can. Now, let's see what the divide is for Mii costumes:

Mii costumes that are not deconfirmations: Ones ported over from Wii U/3DS. This includes Chrom, K. Rool, and Isabelle.
Mii costumes that are deconfirmation: Brand new ones made just for Ultimate. This includes Rex and Isaac. This would surely include brand new DLC costumes.
Mii costumes that are up in the air: Paid DLC that is ported from Wii U/3DS.

That uncertainty is where Nintendo and Square can play their marketing hand and pull surprises.

Let's say the scenario comes that Geno's mii outfit is re-released sooner rather than later. Given it's a ported costume, it's more than likely a quick cash grab and less a deconfirmation. There are two reasons this would be the case: the fact that it's a quick, easy port and the fact that it might seem like a deconfirmation.

What about that last point? Simple again. Nintendo wants their DLC to be surprising. Geno is already such a never ever in a lot of peoples' eyes that, should the Mii costume come back, many would think that would be the death knell for him in Ultimate. Don't you agree? What if, however, that's what they want you to think? Think about it this way: if Geno doesn't get in, but his Mii costume does, us fans will buy the Mii costume, thus Square profits off of Geno. It's a small transaction, which would likely be the push to make casual fans buy the costume, as well, thus giving Geno more limelight. It's early in the Smash DLC cycle, so it comes across as ripping the bandaid off without directly deconfirming. At the same time, it brings Geno more into the public eye and would likely appeal newer fans to him, making him as a playable character that much more marketable.

See where I'm going with this? From a personal perspective, it'd be jerking the fans around for a roller coaster ride, but from a marketing perspective... it's kind of genius. Geno is a character that feels more niche, so what would be the incentive for Square to add him in? For one, Nintendo is the only way they can make any profit off of him whatsoever. Secondly, the incentive here is to find more ways to make money off of him, thus increasing the appeal for Square to finally use him. Giving the Mii costume early enough would lure fans into buying it and cutting their losses while appealing to casual fans, to give Geno that tiny extra boost in popularity. It would also play with Nintendo's element of making the DLC surprising must-haves, emphasis on surprising. Very few would still expect to see Geno after this.

Then, the hypothetical scenario of Geno becoming playable happens. Square's already cashed in on him early on, and we know fans of Geno would buy him even if they already got the Mii costume, because at that point, it's not just a costume. It's literally him. That's even more money in Square's pocket. Remember the casual fan exposure I mentioned? That may lure more people outside of Geno's circle into buying Geno as a playable character. Thus, even more profit. It's a sneaky, underhanded tactic that I could frankly see Square using, because remember, they are all about the money. Nintendo is also clever about playing with the market, so that would fit the bill, as well.

Again, I acknowledge that this is ridiculous and stretchier than really cheesy pizza. That's my disclaimer: TAKE THIS THEORY WITH A WHOLE WHEELBARROW OF SALT, nay, a full planet's worth of salt. It's just an analysis of potential marketing for Geno that I find fascinating, both from a personal and a corporate perspective. Remember, Square is very corporate in mindset, and we have to think like them.

 

[Zubyyyy]

Again, I acknowledge that this is ridiculous and stretchier than really cheesy pizza. That's my disclaimer: TAKE THIS THEORY WITH A WHOLE WHEELBARROW OF SALT, nay, a full planet's worth of salt. It's just an analysis of potential marketing for Geno that I find fascinating, both from a personal and a corporate perspective. Remember, Square is very corporate in mindset, and we have to think like them.

That was my favorite part about this post. I don't know what to make of it, but I love it.

Also, this does make sense. I have always wondered 'would Nintendo be willing to straight up LIE and tell the publics so-and-so-character isn't in, only for them to reveal them later?' I feel like Nintendo would never do that.

HOWEVER.

What you just proposed is a really clever way to allow the public to come to that conclusion on their own. Very clever.

 

[KidCham]

Mii costumes that are not deconfirmations: Ones ported over from Wii U/3DS. This includes Chrom, K. Rool, and Isabelle.
Mii costumes that are deconfirmation: Brand new ones made just for Ultimate. This includes Rex and Isaac. This would surely include brand new DLC costumes.
Mii costumes that are up in the air: Paid DLC that is ported from Wii U/3DS.

that's not a good thinking at all, you confound in game costumes with sold costumes

what's the point of selling a costume if you also sell the character, no one will buy the costume, waste of ressources
If it's in game it's just free bonus as it was here in the past.
Yeah Chrom, K.Rool and Isabelle are still costume, but in the game, not sold separatly

 

[Ovaltine]

that's not a good thinking at all, you confound in game costumes with sold costumes

what's the point of selling a costume if you also sell the character, no one will buy the costume, waste of ressources
If it's in game it's just free bonus as it was here in the past.
Yeah Chrom, K.Rool and Isabelle are still costume, but in the game, not sold separatly

I agree in any normal situation. However, I've explained at length in my post why that actually wouldn't be a bad idea, but rather, a reasonable thing to do, as well as why it would sell. It's all about timing of the releases.

 

[Deleted member]

After giving it some rumination, I actually think that, if the Geno mii costume does come back, it could actually be good news for Geno.

Okay, I know that sounds ridiculous, and I even agree that it is a stretch, but hear me out. Just some food for thought and debate because I love to gobble that up, not to mislead.

If Cloud was, indeed, so difficult to get into base game and nearly caused 'everyone is here' to fold, how was it so easy for Geno and Mallow to have spirits? It's simple: they can be marketed off of later on, or at the very least, Geno can. Now, let's see what the divide is for Mii costumes:

Mii costumes that are not deconfirmations: Ones ported over from Wii U/3DS. This includes Chrom, K. Rool, and Isabelle.
Mii costumes that are deconfirmation: Brand new ones made just for Ultimate. This includes Rex and Isaac. This would surely include brand new DLC costumes.
Mii costumes that are up in the air: Paid DLC that is ported from Wii U/3DS.

That uncertainty is where Nintendo and Square can play their marketing hand and pull surprises.

Let's say the scenario comes that Geno's mii outfit is re-released sooner rather than later. Given it's a ported costume, it's more than likely a quick cash grab and less a deconfirmation. There are two reasons this would be the case: the fact that it's a quick, easy port and the fact that it might seem like a deconfirmation.

What about that last point? Simple again. Nintendo wants their DLC to be surprising. Geno is already such a never ever in a lot of peoples' eyes that, should the Mii costume come back, many would think that would be the death knell for him in Ultimate. Don't you agree? What if, however, that's what they want you to think? Think about it this way: if Geno doesn't get in, but his Mii costume does, us fans will buy the Mii costume, thus Square profits off of Geno. It's a small transaction, which would likely be the push to make casual fans buy the costume, as well, thus giving Geno more limelight. It's early in the Smash DLC cycle, so it comes across as ripping the bandaid off without directly deconfirming. At the same time, it brings Geno more into the public eye and would likely appeal newer fans to him, making him as a playable character that much more marketable.

See where I'm going with this? From a personal perspective, it'd be jerking the fans around for a roller coaster ride, but from a marketing perspective... it's kind of genius. Geno is a character that feels more niche, so what would be the incentive for Square to add him in? For one, Nintendo is the only way they can make any profit off of him whatsoever. Secondly, the incentive here is to find more ways to make money off of him, thus increasing the appeal for Square to finally use him. Giving the Mii costume early enough would lure fans into buying it and cutting their losses while appealing to casual fans, to give Geno that tiny extra boost in popularity. It would also play with Nintendo's element of making the DLC surprising must-haves, emphasis on surprising. Very few would still expect to see Geno after this.

Then, the hypothetical scenario of Geno becoming playable happens. Square's already cashed in on him early on, and we know fans of Geno would buy him even if they already got the Mii costume, because at that point, it's not just a costume. It's literally him. That's even more money in Square's pocket. Remember the casual fan exposure I mentioned? That may lure more people outside of Geno's circle into buying Geno as a playable character. Thus, even more profit. It's a sneaky, underhanded tactic that I could frankly see Square using, because remember, they are all about the money. Nintendo is also clever about playing with the market, so that would fit the bill, as well.

Again, I acknowledge that this is ridiculous and stretchier than really cheesy pizza. That's my disclaimer: TAKE THIS THEORY WITH A WHOLE WHEELBARROW OF SALT, nay, a full planet's worth of salt. It's just an analysis of potential marketing for Geno that I find fascinating, both from a personal and a corporate perspective. Remember, Square is very corporate in mindset, and we have to think like them.

I like this theory

 

[Xigger]

If Nintendo thinks people were happy with assists and they are aware of Geno's popularity, why isn't Geno an assist

Third-party assist trophies were very limited to franchises with third-party fighters up until Ultimate.

And fans in this thread are personally hoping for playable status over assist.

 

[Nekoo]

If Nintendo thinks people were happy with assists and they are aware of Geno's popularity, why isn't Geno an assist

>Wanting a death sentence worst than Mii Costume.


As an Isaac fan.

Why would you want that?

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

>Wanting a death sentence worst than Mii Costume.


As an Isaac fan.

Why would you want that?

I think its just an attempt at answering "would you rather ________ be an assist/mii costume or just not show up at all", there really isn't an easy answer either way.

EDIT: No wait, I made a mistake. We're talking about Nintendo, not the fanbase. Nintendo seemed to think up until very recently that being an AT as a nice "Consolation prize", despite fans not carrying that sentiment in the slightest.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I just wanna put this out there: who's to say a hypothetical season 2 needs Sakurai working on it? Honestly I think it's time to give Sakurai a break and maybe start looking for people to take on his work for him. I could see Sakurai taking a more advisory role of the franchise.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

I just wanna put this out there: who's to say a hypothetical season 2 needs Sakurai working on it? Honestly I think it's time to give Sakurai a break and maybe start looking for people to take on his work for him. I could see Sakurai taking a more advisory role of the franchise.

I hope he does for his own sake, but I have a nagging feeling that Sakurai just wouldn't let himself partake so passively in his own creation.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

>Wanting a death sentence worst than Mii Costume.


As an Isaac fan.

Why would you want that?

Wanting a Geno assist is not the point. The point is Nintendo is breaking their establish pattern of assist = adequate compensation. If they were truly surprised by Isaac's support, and he got in as an assist; if they weren't going to add Geno, why wouldn't Nintendo make HIM an assist? Especially when they actually knew about Geno's popularity, unlike Isaac.

 

[Deleted member]

>Wanting a death sentence worst than Mii Costume.


As an Isaac fan.

Why would you want that?

Not me, it's Nintendo thinking we like characters being assist trophies

Third-party assist trophies were very limited to franchises with third-party fighters up until Ultimate.

And fans in this thread are personally hoping for playable status over assist.

I'm not saying fans want Geno to be an assist, I am saying Nintendo thinks we like characters being assists. It's likely they know that fans want Geno due to Sakurai saying he knows fans want Geno and the Nintendo of America tweet this year. They have the rights to him as evidence by the spirit, so if they think assist trophies are good consolation prizes and they know fans want Geno, and they have the rights to him, it's fishy why they didn't include an assist trophy of him

Again, I am saying Nintendo thinks we like assist trophies, I am not saying we want Geno to be an assist

 

[childishgamgeno]

So here’s a dot I never connected:

The same MONTH that Sakurai’s article came out where he mentioned Geno, is the EXACT same month that the project plan for Ultimate started. THE SAME MONTH!! The Sourcegaming article about Geno was in February 2016. According to our most recent Sourcegaming article about Smash Ultimate, that’s also when the Project Plan started. HMMMMMMMMMM...

WHY ISNT GENO IN THIS GAME

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So here’s a dot I never connected:

The same MONTH that Sakurai’s article came out where he mentioned Geno, is the EXACT same month that the project plan for Ultimate started. THE SAME MONTH!! The Sourcegaming article about Geno was in February 2016.

WHY ISNT GENO IN THIS GAME

.....OR IS HE?

*DUN DUN DUN*

 

[Deleted member]

.....OR IS HE?

*DUN DUN DUN*

Like you said a while back in this thread, I will make the detractors eat their words if Geno comes :D

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just wanna put this out there: who's to say a hypothetical season 2 needs Sakurai working on it? Honestly I think it's time to give Sakurai a break and maybe start looking for people to take on his work for him. I could see Sakurai taking a more advisory role of the franchise.

If I recall, that Game Informer article had him say he had trouble looking for someone who can oversee little things like that.

he character reveal trailers have all been so creative, were you as involved in the storyboarding of these trailers as you were for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS?


I create all the plot, including that of “World of Light.” I make dense adjustment requests to the CG staff, and I also review things like the audio. I of course take a look at the gameplay portions as well.


Thinking in terms of game development, I should probably entrust this all to someone, but I haven’t really found that someone yet…

So, the possibility of a second pass may depend on this, among other factors. Although finding a successor is difficult, culturally speaking...

 

[childishgamgeno]

Also another interesting tidbit from the Feb 2016 article:

On why he picked Lloyd instead of the first Tales protagonist:

[“...For old games it’s somewhat common for the editorial supervision from the original creator to make the process difficult.”]

Possibly another nail in DQ? Maybe Crono?
DQ TECHNICALLY isn’t an old game, but Erdrick is an old character, as is Crono. It would have to be Luminary if they’re gonna do DQ. Neku would be more feasible in this context. We already know Geno has gotten approval on assets and image rights.