Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Laszyking456]

Does anyone got any brand new news on Geno?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean, a lot of big stuff did come out today:

- 500+ spirits identified. Still no Square Enix ones. Still no Geno.

-More evidence that Polar Panda's source is very reliable.

-More evidence that Square is a pain to work with and basically tries to get the most money for the least amount of work, casting even more doubt on Geno's competition.

 

[GenoFlash]

I mean, a lot of big stuff did come out today:

- 500+ spirits identified. Still no Square Enix ones. Still no Geno.

-More evidence that Polar Panda's source is very reliable.

-More evidence that Square is a pain to work with and basically tries to get the most money for the least amount of work, casting even more doubt on Geno's competition.

What came out about PolarPanda?

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, Geno's Mii costume in Smash 4 might have been the only one to get a splash screen because he was the only character who was a Mii costume who was actually planned for the game. Heihachi was considered, but not planned. That being said, I find it unlikely that Sakurai and Nintendo would choose to prioritize a different Square Enix character over Geno

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

man i hate those geno haters. they are usually sora fans too. they always say geno isnt going to be in because he is a spirit even though he is not. God some smash fans have been dropped on the head as a baby tbh

 

[L2 Sentinel]

They open talking about how they suspect DLC to be about advertising/pushing new game characters. They open with Square predictions. One of them says Sora because of KH's impact on gaming as a whole. The other person says Eldrick (idk if I spelled that right) because of the new DQ game coming to Switch in 2019. Then they talked about Doom Guy as a next pick and I stopped listening.

Yeah, I wasn't interested enough to sit through their discussion. Luckily, the screen changes with a picture of their predictions, so it's easy to skim ahead.

Guy 1: Sora, Doom Guy, Excite Bike, 8th Gen Pokemon Rep, Fortnite Rep. Bonus DLC (after season pass): Sandbag
Guy 2: Erdrick, Minecraft Steve, Bandana Dee, KOS-MOS, Banjo Kazooie

 

[Fatmanonice]

What came out about PolarPanda?

A number of things but the most notable being that their source made some statements about several bosses back in early September that are like 95% likely to be true at this point. There's still an embargo on these bosses and the only hint that I can give is that most of the major franchises will be getting at least one unique boss.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Wait, so Square is STILL as difficult to work with Sakurai and the Dev Team? Really?

Jeez. I don't want to say that hurts Geno's chances but man it is a little dissapointing. Hopefully he pulls through somehow.

I need my Mario + Peach + Bowser + Geno + Mallow (Maybe as an AT or something) reunion.

.

 

[TBone06]

A number of things but the most notable being that their source made some statements about several bosses back in early September that are like 95% likely to be true at this point. There's still an embargo on these bosses and the only hint that I can give is that most of the major franchises will be getting at least one unique boss.

When is this embargo lifted? Also (without giving anything away) were you told who these bosses are? Have you heard this from multiple sources or just PolarPanda’s?

 

[Rummy]

man i hate those geno haters. they are usually sora fans too. they always say geno isnt going to be in because he is a spirit even though he is not. God some smash fans have been dropped on the head as a baby tbh

I hate to sound like a guy who has to say things like this but, Hate breeds hate. Let's be peaceful about our characters and wishes. If they want info, we'll give them. If not. Best let them be.

 

[GenoFlash]

A number of things but the most notable being that their source made some statements about several bosses back in early September that are like 95% likely to be true at this point. There's still an embargo on these bosses and the only hint that I can give is that most of the major franchises will be getting at least one unique boss.

Ah. Cool.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

A number of things but the most notable being that their source made some statements about several bosses back in early September that are like 95% likely to be true at this point. There's still an embargo on these bosses and the only hint that I can give is that most of the major franchises will be getting at least one unique boss.

What bosses if I may ask?

But I assuming it’s all the Subspace bosses besides tabuu and probably ridley

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised that the only reason Geno gets in at all is that SE literally has no use for him. Might as well hand the rights to him and other SMRPG characters to Nintendo for free at that point, since they are Mario characters, in the end.

 

[Fatmanonice]

When is this embargo lifted? Also (without giving anything away) were you told who these bosses are? Have you heard this from multiple sources or just PolarPanda’s?

1. Probably not until release because all I know is that Nintendo has only approved a handful of them to be shown off before release.

2. Polar Panda's source mentioned three that would have been extremely hard to guess back when he made his statements in early September. Outside of these, some are really obvious if you've been paying attention.

3. Some sources have said one of PolarPanda's source's three but seemed to come to the conclusion by deduction rather than being flat out told. To be fair, it's a deduction a lot of people made but Panda's source was the first to make a definitive statement about it in passing.

4. Another hint: the bosses in the statement were not Subspace bosses.

 

[SSGuy]

They open talking about how they suspect DLC to be about advertising/pushing new game characters. They open with Square predictions. One of them says Sora because of KH's impact on gaming as a whole. The other person says Eldrick (idk if I spelled that right) because of the new DQ game coming to Switch in 2019. Then they talked about Doom Guy as a next pick and I stopped listening.

They also mentioned KOS-MOS later but I am still uncertain if Xenosaga truly is a SE game or not. (Pardon my ignorance)

Using the Geno image and ignoring him completely seems like massive click bait.

 

[TBone06]

1. Probably not until release because all I know is that Nintendo has only approved a handful of them to be shown off before release.

2. Polar Panda's source mentioned three that would have been extremely hard to guess back when he made his statements in early September. Outside of these, some are really obvious if you've been paying attention.

3. Some sources have said one of PolarPanda's source's three but seemed to come to the conclusion by deduction rather than being flat out told. To be fair, it's a deduction a lot of people made but Panda's source was the first to make a definitive statement about it in passing.

4. Another hint: the bosses in the statement were not Subspace bosses.

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. Interesting stuff.

 

[ChoccyStar]

They also mentioned KOS-MOS later but I am still uncertain if Xenosaga truly is a SE game or not. (Pardon my ignorance)

Xenosaga is Monolith Soft/Namco, so KOS-MOS would count as a Namco rep. If Namco has another rep, I would put KOS-MOS even above Lloyd.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Assuming Sakurai and/ or Nintendo wanted to use Geno, Square being so difficult to work with may explain why Geno wasn't in the base game. Maybe Sakurai DID want to add geno to base game but they just made the agreement with Square too late

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvbthE7Qxs

&

Geno's perfect victory theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhoiAcgkS3U

 

[Fatmanonice]

Seems likely at this point. I've also stumbled upon some secret footage of Square Enix trying to negotiate both Cloud and Geno being paid DLC in Smash Ultimate:

 

[Deleted member]

Seems likely at this point. I've also stumbled upon some secret footage of Square Enix trying to negotiate both Cloud and Geno being paid DLC in Smash Ultimate:

Thank you, now I can't stop watching it

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Super_Mario_Bros._series)

LOL, someone removed Geno from the List of Spirits

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Assuming Sakurai and/ or Nintendo wanted to use Geno, Square being so difficult to work with may explain why Geno wasn't in the base game. Maybe Sakurai DID want to add geno to base game but they just made the agreement with Square too late

Yeah, it makes me wonder about having a Geno profile icon in there, and so far, there’s no other Square content in Spirits or Ultimate? Just tell me, do you really think Sakurai and Nintendo would go through the trouble of getting Geno’s rights just to make him as a profile icon in the Battle Arena? It just seems like it was too much, like going through all that trouble to get one Square character like Geno, and then want someone like Slime or Erdrick... I honestly don’t see this happening with Nintendo. When you work on something so hard, you WANT to finish it completely, not start something new without finishing your previous project. This is what Sakurai and Nintendo has to, from my words:

Tried to get Geno in back in Brawl but didn’t work -> Get the licensing to Geno that costed a lot -> Mii costume in Smash 4 -> Get the full-on license to Geno’s rights -> Receive the authority to put him in Smash Ultimate -> Make him as a battle token/profile icon in the Battle Arena -> Now the final step is making him as an actual character/fighter.

There’s no way Sakurai and Nintendo would want to stop after getting this much from Geno, especially after trying for the past 10+ years. They worked very hard to try and get Geno in Smash Brothers. I doubt they would want to choose another Square character after trying this hard to get Geno, epecially after trying for ten years... if they decide to choose someone other than Geno, especially right when they’re about to succeed in getting him completely, then that’s got to be one of their dumbest decisions ever.

EDIT:

LOL, someone removed Geno from the List of Spirits

I’m going to assume:

A. Someone went over all the confirmed spirits and didn’t find Geno as a spirit, assuming that they originally thought Geno was a spirit, so they removed it after finding out he’s not.

B. A troll put Geno on the list and one of the admins eventually removed it.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I hope Square is cool and lets Geno happen, but I don't think it's going to.

I support characters with unique and colorful movesets, and even though I have little attachment to Geno I think he would have a beautiful moveset. Not to mention the music he would bring in.

I'm rooting for you all, I just hate to see such determination followed by heart-break. Being a Skull Kid fan since before Brawl has made me feel a connection with other fanbases that keep repeatedly getting curb-stomped and I know people keep telling you that Geno is just a gigantic bandwagon choice or not a real suggestion, but just hang in there guys. It might not be in Ultimate, and Sakurai might have to give Square a few other characters before they'll finally bend for Geno, but it isn't impossible. What's amazing is you guys have stayed strong and consistent with your support, unlike Skull Kid who has had periods of complete and utter deflation. I hope I'm wrong and Square isn't what I think they are. Good luck guys.

 

[owjies]

Just stumbled across a video by Justin Wong where he lists his top five choices for Smash DLC. You know who is his #4 pick. I know this is somewhat of an off-topic post, but I think considering how Geno supporters are often viewed as a niche fanbase, it's telling when someone with Wong's history and success within the FGC supports Geno.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Basically the timeline we're mapping out:

-Sakurai tries to get Geno for Brawl. Square says no. Sakurai sits on the idea instead of totally dumping it.

-Sakurai 2: the Return of Jafar. Sakurai asks for Cloud and Geno. Nintendo probably tells him to choose one or the other to avoid showing favortism to Square with DLC. Sakurai goes with Cloud but manages to negotiate a Geno Mii costume.

-Sakurai comes back again for "Everyone is Here." Square wants Cloud as paid DLC a second time. Nintendo and Sakurai tell Square to not be that guy. Square still wants paid DLC and possibly threatens to blow the whole deal otherwise. "Everyone is Here" won't work if Cloud is cut. Expletives are said out loud but a deal is struck. Sakurai already has all the Geno assets and permissions so likely just makes him into a full character.

 

[owjies]

Basically the timeline we're mapping out:

-Sakurai tries to get Geno for Brawl. Square says no. Sakurai sits on the idea instead of totally dumping it.

-Sakurai 2: the Return of Jafar. Sakurai asks for Cloud and Geno. Nintendo probably tells him to choose one or the other to avoid showing favortism to Square with DLC. Sakurai goes with Cloud but manages to negotiate a Geno Mii costume.

-Sakurai comes back again for "Everyone is Here." Square wants Cloud as paid DLC a second time. Nintendo and Sakurai tell Square to not be that guy. Square still wants paid DLC and possibly threatens to blow the whole deal otherwise. "Everyone is Here" won't work if Cloud is cut. Expletives are said out loud but a deal is struck. Sakurai already has all the Geno assets and permissions so likely just makes him into a full character.

Yeah, I think if this Cloud rumor is true, then Square's rep was going to be DLC regardless of who it was.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Imagine, they could have been super close to not being able to do "everyone is here"

 

[Darkfur]

I apologize for being out of the loop. But where is the source of the "Square wanted Cloud to be DLC again" rumor?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I apologize for being out of the loop. But where is the source of the "Square wanted Cloud to be DLC again" rumor?

I think it originated from Stealth?

 

[Rummy]

Sorry for the heartbreaks regarding Cloud being DLC again but i haven't found any sources or anyone saying that's what happened. I mean knowing Square it's possible but i cannot find the original place where it was spoken of.

Unless you can link me.

I think it originated from Stealth?

Problem with that, i don't think he said it. He said he was the last character to get into Ultimate Legally. Didn't state anything regarding Square attempting to make Cloud DLC.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sorry for the heartbreaks regarding Cloud being DLC again but i haven't found any sources or anyone saying that's what happened. I mean knowing Square it's possible but i cannot find the original place where it was spoken of.

Unless you can link me.

Problem with that, i don't think he said it. He said he was the last character to get into Ultimate Legally. Didn't state anything regarding Square attempting to make Cloud DLC.

I think people just made that part up. I just mean the initial rumor that lead to this came from Stealth

 

[AugustusB]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Stealth40k/status/1064528519068377088
This is the original tweet from Stealth.

Looking through his other tweets, nothing flat out says SE wanted to push for Cloud to be DLC, but there are some interesting notes in his recent posts.

I originally posted this in the general thread and pretty sure things got twisted. Unless another insider said something.

 

[SSGuy]

I’m going to assume:

A. Someone went over all the confirmed spirits and didn’t find Geno as a spirit, assuming that they originally thought Geno was a spirit, so they removed it after finding out he’s not.

B. A troll put Geno on the list and one of the admins eventually removed it.

C. Someone removed just Geno for the heck of it but did not remove Toad or Paper Bowser. The other two Tokens that are not Spirits atm.

 

[RingJ5]

*Puts on blue tin foil hat*

I got curious as to if the “online icon” we spotted Geno in could actually be a spirit. It makes sense to me that online icons could be synonymous with spirits. I thought maybe you could set spirits you obtain as your online icon but it would seem that online icons and spirits are indeed two separate things.

My reasoning is that the profile icons we've seen so far don't match their characters' equivalent spirit art.
For example, both Zero and the Moon spirit use official game art as spirits but SSBU renders for their icons.
Compare the online icons below to these characters spirits spotted elsewhere in the game.

Online icons

Zero spirit

Moon spirit

What I'm curious about is Toad. Toad isn't an assist trophy and I haven't seen that specific Toad art used as a spirit.
I feel as if online icons and spirits are separate entities because it would be odd to have both options for Zero/the Moon as online icon choices.
If spirits can't be used for online icons then that's a big advantage to Geno. Of course, who's to say if spirits deconfirm a character's chances at all anyway.


Edit: Upon reviewing the online area reveal in the direct it really seems to me that Geno's split second appearance is on purpose. Watching it again it really does seem like its supposed to be a clue. It's just me speculating though~ <3

Second edit: The example I made above works for the Klaptrap that appears next to Geno in the direct.

Woah, this is all incredibly good work. The whole “icons are just Spirits” thing has been basically disproven, mainly thanks to that Moon Spirit.

All this time with the Kremling thing, I was somewhat worried that the difference was due to that being an upgraded Kremling Spirit, like being able to upgrade its original render into an Ultimate-render Spirit.

But no, the moon’s max-level and still has its old art, deconfirming that as possible. Quite a good sign for Geno.

 

[djgwiz]

I noted this in another thread, but there's no Piranha Plant spirit currently discovered. There is a Mario Strikers Petey Piranha spirit though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I apologize for being out of the loop. But where is the source of the "Square wanted Cloud to be DLC again" rumor?

It's just conjecture people have pieced together from different statements and observations:

-Square Enix's notable lack of new content in the main game including no new animations for Cloud.

-Cloud's absence from all CG trailers.

-Recent statements about Cloud's possible late addition.

-Statements going back to the summer that Square DLC was the first determined and will likely first out of the gate.

 

[Loliko YnT]

It's the grinch leak all-over again for me...

There is so much evidences , so much things pointing towards Geno beeing DLC , that him just beeing a token would be such a dumb move... But this Time , I hope that After all of that , Geno is in.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Something I wanted to change about my previous timeline:

-Sakurai approaches Square for Geno and Cloud for the base roster in Smash 4. Square only agrees if both are DLC. Nintendo shoots the idea down.

"It's gotta be one or the other."- Nintendo

"Ah nuts..." - Sakurai

Sakurai helps them work out a compromise by getting Cloud playable and Geno as a DLC costume.

 

[Pyra]

getting Cloud playable and Geno as a DLC costume.

I parsed that as a Geno alternate costume for Cloud
I'm not even mad