Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Sigran101]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I had one last thought on Sora. For the life of me, I can't understand why people think Nintendo would choose Sora. Smash Bros. really really sells characters. Just look at fire emblem. The only reason modern gamers even know who captain falcon and Ness are is because of it. And you can bet if Sora gets a spotlight at dlc, smash fans around the world are going to spend their $59.99 on Kingdom hearts 3 instead of Metroid Prime 4 or Gen 8 to see what all the fuss is about and learn the background of the newest fighter. This game is huge for advertising. The only reason people give for why they would choose Sora is because it would be a huge unexpected "break the internet" reveal. Well guess what? The reason these kinds of characters would break the internet is because it wouldn't make any sense for Nintendo to add them! It's not evidence in his favor. The only thing going for Sora is the rumors. I don't mind Sora or kingdom hearts at all. I just don't understand the confidence people have in it happening.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I had one last thought on Sora. For the life of me, I can't understand why people think Nintendo would choose Sora. Smash Bros. really really sells characters. Just look at fire emblem. The only reason modern gamers even know who captain falcon and Ness are is because of it. And you can bet if Sora gets a spotlight at dlc, smash fans around the world are going to spend their $59.99 on Kingdom hearts 3 instead of Metroid Prime 4 or Gen 8. This game is huge for advertising. The only reason people give for why they would choose Sora is because it would be a huge unexpected "break the internet" reveal. Well guess what? The reason these kinds of characters would break the internet is because it wouldn't make any sense for Nintendo to add them! It's not evidence in his favor. The only thing going for Sora is the rumors. I don't mind Sora or kingdom hearts at all. I just don't understand the confidence people have in it happening.

That is a very good point. Ryu and Cloud were DLC in Smash 4 though, so maybe Nintendo isn't 100% percent all about advertisements

 

[Sigran101]

That is a very good point. Ryu and Cloud were DLC in Smash 4 though, so maybe Nintendo isn't 100% percent all about advertisements

Certainly not all about advertising their characters, but I would imagine they wouldn't want to advertise a big competing game coming out on competing systems. If KHIII wasn't coming out right now I'd feel differently about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Certainly not all about advertising their characters, but I would imagine they wouldn't want to advertise a big competing game coming out on competing systems. If KHIII wasn't coming out right now I'd feel differently about it.

Again, good point. Man, all this discussion is making me sleepy lol. I think I'm gonna hit the hay

 

[-Coco-]

I haven't really seen anything concrete from spawnwave about Sora other than "huh people would be excited for that?" Is there something else?

EDIT: Nvm ignore this.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Certainly not all about advertising their characters, but I would imagine they wouldn't want to advertise a big competing game coming out on competing systems. If KHIII wasn't coming out right now I'd feel differently about it.

This. Speculators at large seem to be forgetting that although Sora is the more relevant figure with an upcoming release to promote, said release is also a competing JRPG that releases on precisely none of Nintendo's current platforms. In this way, Sora's biggest strength turns into arguably his greatest weakness when it's Nintendo calling the shots. When it comes to picking a SE character for the new Smash Bros., from a business perspective, Sora's probably one of the last ones they'd go for.
And that's what makes this whole issue of who the SE rep is such a conundrum. If Square Enix gets their way, they're pushing Sora, no questions asked, but if Nintendo gets their way, they'll go with anyone but Sora, probably Geno considering he's the only one bar the slim possibility of an Octopath character who could even remotely benefit Nintendo beyond just getting DLC monies. Which one gets in will really be a matter of who folds first and who's more firm, Square or Nintendo. I have a feeling it'll be Nintendo who comes out on top considering they're the ones making the game and Square Enix is ultimately at their mercy in this dynamic.

 

[Darkfur]

Oh my:

Spoiler

 

[GoodGrief741]

Nintendo and Microsoft are competitors, but they also have been getting along very well. Minecraft is on various Nintendo consoles, and Vergeben said that Minecraft will be represented in Ultimate. For Nintendo and Disney, they are competitors, but they don't have the best relationship to work together. Since Mario is not in Wreckit-Ralph and was originally planned to, then I don't see Disney putting their characters in Nintendo's games if Nintendo doesn't put their characters in Disney's movies, shows, etc.

Why would you say Nintendo and Disney don’t have a good relationship? Again, Mario not being in Wreck-It Ralph is not a sign of that.

Certainly not all about advertising their characters, but I would imagine they wouldn't want to advertise a big competing game coming out on competing systems. If KHIII wasn't coming out right now I'd feel differently about it.

Street Fighter V says hi.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

So far, I only have two complaints about Ultimate:

1. No Geno Yet
2. Neither of my Mother boys were in any cinematic trailers. Ness and Lucas never end up in those character trailers, not even in Smash 4. Guess I should just be happy with what I got in Subspace.

 

[RingJ5]

Street Fighter V says hi.

Funny thing about that. The release of the Ryu DLC for Smash actually put Capcom in a bit of an uncomfortable position, so they made a statement three days before its release clarifying that “no, SFV is still only coming to PS4 and PC, nowhere else.”

That was also eight full months before the game’s launch and a couple days before the DLC release, letting the press wave pass by relatively uneventfully. In this case, they’d be announcing a DLC presumably on December 6th that wouldn’t actually be out until February/March at the earliest, which could end up being an issue for Square’s marketing of the PS4/X1 versions out late January.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

I remember hearing about Banjo and Geno being confirmed as the first two DLC waves, is this really true? I remember hearing about something similar to this info on Twitter, stating that a Japanese leaker confirmed Geno as the 1st DLC, and his trailer would show up next month.

dont play with my heart!!!!! wheres the proof

 

[Rummy]

dont play with my heart!!!!! wheres the proof

It was a rumour made at a anonymous site (A Japanese site) I think but i wouldn't believe it.

Also i can't find it.

 

[Dr. Robotnik]

If Geno is our Square rep, here's what I think we should get from his DLC pack:

DLC Pack 1
Newcomer: Geno

Stage: Vista Hill
Why Vista Hill? Well, not many know the name of this area, but this has got to be one of the most recognized areas in all of Super Mario RPG, right next to recognition with the Forest Maze. Remember that this area is literally on the box art of the game, it's even on the title screen. Mario just going to Vista Hill and staring at Bowser's Keep from a far distance, along with a jump, is such a historical area and moment to Super Mario RPG. Having Bowser's Keep with Exor in the background when you fight? That would be so awesome. There are even stages with castles in the background, such as Peach's Castle 64, Bridge of Eldin, EVEN ULTIMATE'S BATTLEFIELD! I think we should keep Vista Hill the way it looks because some stages completely stay to their original looks, including the ones with 16-bit sprites, so Super Mario RPG's stage should stay with its original look. Forest Maze would be nice, but I would prefer to fight on Vista Hill because that hill alone practically represents Super Mario RPG, and fighting with Exor in the background would look so awesome. If Sakurai can manage to pull this off, maybe at a certain time, Exor can fall from the sky and land in Bowser's Keep with a huge, shattering quake and just stays there, watching us fight... oh man, that would be chills and awesome. The background could change as well, from being a red-cloudy sky or shifting into the black and blue aurora flash with the darkened sky.

Don't worry about these spoilers, these are just the visuals of Vista Hill. I made them in spoilers so they wouldn't take up so much space.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Music Tracks:
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms (Remix)
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms (OG)
Fight Against Koopa (Remix)
Fight Against an Armed Boss
Fight Against Monsters
Fight Against a Somewhat Stronger Monster
Still, the Road is Full of Dangers!
Happy Adventure, Delightful Adventure
Let's Go Down the Wine River (Optional)
Slope (Optional)

I am hoping that the Beware the Forest's Mushrooms remix gets a similar remix like Gangplank Galleon and the new Delfino Plaza remix, such as more sped up and exciting. These soundtracks would be much easier to get than the Final Fantasy VII tracks because the FF7 composer is very strict and expensive to make a deal with, hence why we only still have two tracks, and even Square has a difficult time getting soundtracks off the FF7 composer because he isn't affiliated with Square anymore. Yoko Shimomura is the SMRPG composer, and she already has her soundtrack in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate, so getting these soundtracks from her and Square shouldn't be too difficult at all.

This is what I think we should get. If any of you guys have suggestions, I would like to hear.

Vista Hill would be pretty damn epic honestly.

 

[UberPyro64]

Regardless of Geno's chances, I'm almost certain Dragon Quest is coming to Smash regardless of how many hoops there are.

There is nothing Smash related outside of this that I am more confident in.

Also to those saying there is no Dragon Quests games on Switch, both Builders games are on Switch and XI is coming to Switch. X is also on Switch but that's a Japanese exclusive.

I should note that I don't think a Dragon Quest character getting in means Geno is a no. Both can happen. There is no competition here. It's all up to Nintendo.

I'm pessimistic on his chances myself, I feel like Nintendo doesn't care about Geno in the slightest, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[PolarPanda]

Regardless of Geno's chances, I'm almost certain Dragon Quest is coming to Smash regardless of how many hoops there are.

There is nothing Smash related outside of this that I am more confident in.

Also to those saying there is no Dragon Quests games on Switch, both Builders games are on Switch and XI is coming to Switch. X is also on Switch but that's a Japanese exclusive.

I should note that I don't think a Dragon Quest character getting in means Geno is a no. Both can happen. There is no competition here. It's all up to Nintendo.

I'm pessimistic on his chances myself, I feel like Nintendo doesn't care about Geno in the slightest, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Why are you so sure a franchise that has sold incredibly poorly in the west is for sure going to be in Smash? It's the fact that not many people in the west buy dragon quest coupled with the legal hoops that make it unlikely. Nintendo wants their dlc to sell, not just sell amazing in one region.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's not just about the hoops (which far exceeds any character and franchise we already have in Smash, mind you), it's also the fact that Japanese fans don't really want it that much and even notably Western characters like Banjo and Crash Bandicoot are far more wanted. If it was just a character, that would be one thing, but the music is something else entirely because the composer personally owns all of it. Not only this, but the guy is incredibly toxic, being super anti LGBT and denying Japanese war crimes. This is definitely not a guy Nintendo wants to attach itself to.

https://gonintendo.com/stories/314429-dragon-quest-composer-gets-caught-up-in-anti-lgbtq-controversy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku...nd-who-pretends-war-crimes-never-happened/amp

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Not to mention we get Dragon Quest songs in smash they'd probably be low quality midi's

The composer purposely puts low quality music into the games so he can sell the high quality version in albums.

There is no way he'd allow ultimate, which can essentially be used as a music player, to have high quality versions of his songs

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, think about it, people freaked out about a racist caricature in Ultimate (which I think was just a crossing of cultural wires because Japan is traditionally notoriously racist, yet ironically oblivious to it, and only recently have younger generations called it out), imagine the equivalent of a known Holocaust denier being on the Smash Ultimate team?

 

[FalconFire93]

View attachment 177404

Has anyone ever seen this pic?

Mallow is terrifying!

Geez, I always pictured Mallow roughly around the same size as Kirby.

 

[SSGuy]

I've had a Sora/Square Enix fanboy not only diss Geno for being a threat. But he also claimed Super Mario RPG was just a very well made fan game. I have the screen shot from 4 years ago.

He doesn't like to do his own research

He's played Mario and Luigi and he has played Paper Mario for 64 and Gamecube and admits we need the RPG games to have representation. (He says Paper Mario) but he will basically shun all ideas involving SMRPG just for the fact it threats Sora's very existence.

I mean, it isnt like I will ever convince this guy otherwise. Unfortunately for me, he is also a huge Overwatch fanboy and will provide Team Fortress 2 (another game I have over 2000 hours in) that they were an inspirational point for Blizzard.

So I guess for every SSGuy there has to be an Anti-SSGuy lol

That is a very good point. Ryu and Cloud were DLC in Smash 4 though, so maybe Nintendo isn't 100% percent all about advertisements

Also Sakurai chose Cloud and Ryu because he does not care for competition. This is a guy who brought in Snake and Sonic.

This is why I feel a little more confident with Nintendo making picks over Sakurai just because Sakurai, while he wants Geno, is a wild card with many various picks. He can pretty much choose what he wants at the end of the day. Nintendo will play it a bit safer and Geno is as close as you can get to a well selling DLC character without advertising for other platforms.

 

[UberPyro64]

Why are you so sure a franchise that has sold incredibly poorly in the west is for sure going to be in Smash? It's the fact that not many people in the west buy dragon quest coupled with the legal hoops that make it unlikely. Nintendo wants their dlc to sell, not just sell amazing in one region.

Selling poorly in the west is irrelevant when you're just that popular in Japan. Having Dragon Quest in Smash would definitely boost Japanese sales without question.

Plus Dragon Quest games are constantly published by Nintendo over here in the west. It's clear Nintendo cares about the series.

There is also the fact that it's one of the last major Japanese 80s/early 90s franchises left. Adding it in kind of feels like your completing a milestone. You have Pac-Man, Castlevania, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Final Fantasy and Sonic the Hedgehog. Dragon Quest is the one after that.

I feel like regardless of the hoops, Nintendo would likely think it's worth adding to Smash.

But really this thread is about Geno. I love Geno, I think he should be in. I'm just disputing claims that Dragon Quest has no chance. It's damn likely to be sure. No one should say otherwise.

 

[paper roxy]

Selling poorly in the west is irrelevant when you're just that popular in Japan.

except it isnt. at all. not to mention everything with the composer already mentioned here lmao

 

[PolarPanda]

Selling poorly in the west is irrelevant when you're just that popular in Japan. Having Dragon Quest in Smash would definitely boost Japanese sales without question.

Plus Dragon Quest games are constantly published by Nintendo over here in the west. It's clear Nintendo cares about the series.

There is also the fact that it's one of the last major Japanese 80s/early 90s franchises left. Adding it in kind of feels like your completing a milestone. You have Pac-Man, Castlevania, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Final Fantasy and Sonic the Hedgehog. Dragon Quest is the one after that.

I feel like regardless of the hoops, Nintendo would likely think it's worth adding to Smash.

But really this thread is about Geno. I love Geno, I think he should be in. I'm just disputing claims that Dragon Quest has no chance. It's damn likely to be sure. No one should say otherwise.

But, Japanese sales do not make up the vast majority of Smash purchases. I can't think of any recent Nintendo games with DLC that was only in it for Japanese sales. Most people assume Nintendo wants to make the most profit with DLC, and I think it's very like DQ would not be the most successful Enix route. Hell, I'd say a second FF rep would probably make more. It's no doubt a titan in Japan, but it's just not in the west. At all.

I'm not saying DQ has no chance, I just don't think it's as highly likely as you are claiming. DQ has a shot.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Nintendo has only had real markets in South Korea since 2006 and China since 2015. Bringing on a Japanese war crime denier would be a colassal mistake especially since China has more than a BILLION people and a rapidly growing middle class with disposable income.

 

[6eyondthegrave]

You must not be keeping up with this thread at all.

You don't need to worry about Sora

LOL, you were right!

 

[TerminalMontage]

Selling poorly in the west is irrelevant when you're just that popular in Japan. Having Dragon Quest in Smash would definitely boost Japanese sales without question.

Plus Dragon Quest games are constantly published by Nintendo over here in the west. It's clear Nintendo cares about the series.

There is also the fact that it's one of the last major Japanese 80s/early 90s franchises left. Adding it in kind of feels like your completing a milestone. You have Pac-Man, Castlevania, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Final Fantasy and Sonic the Hedgehog. Dragon Quest is the one after that.

I feel like regardless of the hoops, Nintendo would likely think it's worth adding to Smash.

But really this thread is about Geno. I love Geno, I think he should be in. I'm just disputing claims that Dragon Quest has no chance. It's damn likely to be sure. No one should say otherwise.

Yeah I'm starting to worry the SE rep might be DQ.

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I would be mad if it turns out to be DQ because i couldn't give a single **** about that series as a whole

 

[RingJ5]

The thing about DQ in this situation is that, no matter how you slice it, it’d be a Corrin-level marketing pick rather than anything that people specifically want in Smash. Even with how huge the series is in Japan, there’s barely any requests for it over there due to having no big memorable protagonists to get behind, since they’re intentionally pretty blank-slate. They don’t have a big, memorable character like Cloud to rally around.

All Smash 4 DLC characters besides Corrin had a pretty huge following behind them for Smash before the announcements. DQ, while definitely being popular over in Japan, has absolutely nothing of the sort, not even really for Slime. It’d be really, really weird to start off the Smash character pass with a character from a series only popular in Japan(albeit extremely so)... that not even Japan particularly wants in Smash.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

Expect this little info drastically contradicts with Verg's one where he claims that Geno is one of the 7 SE reps names he has heard.

Hitagi backpedals. A lot. He was the one who backpedaled hard on Steve and Katalina for a while, especially since Verg himself mentioned that the negotiation between Nintendo and Cygames fell through. And then Hitagi returned back saying that these two are still in. Sounds fishy.

 

[NukeA6]

The thing about DQ in this situation is that, no matter how you slice it, it’d be a Corrin-level marketing pick rather than anything that people specifically want in Smash. Even with how huge the series is in Japan, there’s barely any requests for it over there due to having no big memorable protagonists to get behind, since they’re intentionally pretty blank-slate. They don’t have a big, memorable character like Cloud to rally behind.

Cloud is as blank-state as you can get with a FF protagonist. It's even revealed that

Spoiler: Final Fantasy 7 spoilers

his history and fragments of a personality aren't even his own

. And regardless of the lack of hype, at least Dragon Quest's characters aren't gonna have a trailer as bad as Corrin's (and geez, was that an annoying one).

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah I'm starting to worry the SE rep might be DQ.

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

He legally can't confirm or deny it and has extensively gone into why. Supposedly Square Enix has among the strictest NDAs in the industry and regularly makes leak bait to catch and punish leakers. For this game in particular, we've had multiple people come forward and say Square Enix has internally released multiple names (some claiming at least seven) with Dragon Quest characters and Geno being among ones heard, making insiders think twice about giving strong positives or negatives in order to avoid endangering their sources.

 

[meleebrawler]

We can't forget almost not getting Fire Emblem in western versions of Melee due to fearing a lack of appeal there.

 

[Graf von Tirol]

The Slime is the closest to a DQ character I wouldn't necessarily object to, since it's the universally-recognized character from the series even among those who never touched the series. Even then, that SourceForge graphic had DQ characters not show anywhere in the top 20. Even Sora is higher.

 

[Nazyrus]

Don't worry guys we still have a chance. Not having the mii costume back should definitely mean playable. Cloud is back, so it's not an issue with SE whatsoever. And Sakurai and Nintendo knows people want him playable, which is why we got the mii costume in the first place. I don't think they are gonna take step backwards with this character. It's either the mii costume again or playable this time, hopefully the latter of course.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Yeah I'm starting to worry the SE rep might be DQ.

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

Legitimate question here: Has Hitagi gotten anything right so far when it comes to smash? I legitimately don't know. All I ever see is him making claims and going back on them or rewording them days later

 

[coolcat12347]

Don't worry guys we still have a chance. Not having the mii costume back should definitely mean playable. Cloud is back, so it's not an issue with SE whatsoever. And Sakurai and Nintendo knows people want him playable, which is why we got the mii costume in the first place. I don't think they are gonna take step backwards with this character. It's either the mii costume again or playable this time, hopefully the latter of course.

Or... It's both?
The Chrom costume's back.

 

[PolarPanda]

Yeah I'm starting to worry the SE rep might be DQ.

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

Hitagi, you mean the person who backpeddles and claims they're not sure on characters? They aren't verge's leaker bro. They've only ever leaked SNK games, not even Nintendo or Namco developed games. Verge just likes them personally. There's very little reason to actually trust any of their smash info, lol.

And we've pointed out several reasons why DQ makes hardly any sense.

Legitimate question here: Has Hitagi gotten anything right so far when it comes to smash? I legitimately don't know. All I ever see is him making claims and going back on them or rewording them days later

No, and for the record he's never even truly leaked a Nintendo game, lol.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Legitimate question here: Has Hitagi gotten anything right so far when it comes to smash? I legitimately don't know. All I ever see is him making claims and going back on them or rewording them days later

He never leaked any Nintendo game as I know. I think he leaked new Switch model, but a lot of people were talking about it before.

 

[PolarPanda]

He never leaked any Nintendo game as I know. I think he leaked new Switch model, but a lot of people were talking about it.

Correct. Hitagi has never leaked a Nintendo or Namco game themselves. The only instance is when they piggybacked on a Switch model dozens of other leakers already talked about. I'm not kidding when I say they've almost exclusively leaked SNK. Verge only says he likes them BECAUSE they leaked the same SNK game. That does not mean Senjou is credible for Smash in the slightest.

 

[RingJ5]

Cloud is as blank-state as you can get with a FF protagonist. It's even revealed that

Spoiler: Final Fantasy 7 spoilers

his history and fragments of a personality aren't even his own

See, I wouldn’t call that blank-slate myself, especially with how he reacts to finding all that out.

Plus, he has multiple further appearances that work to flesh out his character, something that DQ characters haven’t really had to work off of.