Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[NOSTARSICK]

Byleth and Version 7.0.0 is coming tomorrow.

I legitimately can't wait for Byleth, I'm not a fan of Fire Emblem like I used to be (haven't really had interest since the GameCube one, I mean, I tried to get back in with Awakening (which I enjoyed) but it wasn't enough) but Byleth seems like such a good character

 

[Fatmanonice]

There are also fans that aren't fine with it, so what?

I don't even really want to debate this. Byleth was poorly received. That's the takeaway. There's nothing to really argue. The evidence is overwhelming. "Well, he wasn't poorly received by everyone." Well, what-****ing-ever. It changes literally nothing whether 5% of the Fire Emblem fanbase wanted him or 25%. It's done. It's not changing. It's ultimately irrelevant. Byleth could have worse poll numbers than Hitler and it wouldn't matter because, ultimately, who ****in' cares about the specific electron microscope degree parameters of this ****?

 

[Sigran101]

I don't even really want to debate this. Byleth was poorly received. That's the takeaway. There's nothing to really argue. The evidence is overwhelming. "Well, he wasn't poorly received by everyone." Well, what-****ing-ever. It changes literally nothing whether 5% of the Fire Emblem fanbase wanted him or 25%. It's done. It's not changing. It's ultimately irrelevant. Byleth could have worse poll numbers than Hitler and it wouldn't matter because, ultimately, who ****in' cares about the specific electron microscope degree parameters of this ****?

Okay, but you said Fire Emblem fans didn't want Byleth and that's objectively not true. Pretty much everyone in the Edelgard thread said they were happy with Byleth too. Poorly received, yeah obviously. But that's not what you said.

Edit: You have to understand that Byleth fans are sick of our character being **** on, so being told that even we don't like him because he's so bad is annoying even if that wasn't supposed to be the point.

 

[Bremy]

Okay, but you said Fire Emblem fans didn't want Byleth and that's objectively not true. Pretty much everyone in the Edelgard thread said they were happy with Byleth too. Poorly received, yeah obviously. But that's not what you said.

Edit: You have to understand that Byleth fans are sick of our character being **** on, so being told that even we don't like him because he's so bad is annoying even if that wasn't supposed to be the point.

I think what he is trying to say is that Byleth wasnt the first choice for most Three Houses fans. And that is true. Everyone I talked to wanted Edelgard. But ultimately, fire emblem fans are okay with Byleth

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

There are also fans that aren't fine with it, so what?

Saying "That not even some FE fans want" would of been more correct insted of sounding like he is talking about all of us

 

[Sigran101]

I think what he is trying to say is that Byleth wasnt the first choice for most Three Houses fans. And that is true. Everyone I talked to wanted Edelgard. But ultimately, fire emblem fans are okay with Byleth

Not first choice =/= didn't want. It just gets really tiring at this point and we don't need other people attempting to speak for us.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I don't even really want to debate this. Byleth was poorly received. That's the takeaway. There's nothing to really argue. The evidence is overwhelming. "Well, he wasn't poorly received by everyone." Well, what-****ing-ever. It changes literally nothing whether 5% of the Fire Emblem fanbase wanted him or 25%. It's done. It's not changing. It's ultimately irrelevant. Byleth could have worse poll numbers than Hitler and it wouldn't matter because, ultimately, who ****in' cares about the specific electron microscope degree parameters of this ****?

Posts like this make me really excited to see Byleth continue to live rent free in this community for the next several years.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Easy way to showcase this: Watch the Nintendo NY Store reactions to Banjo or Hero or even Terry, then compare them to the reactions towards Byleth. It's ****ing night and goddamn day.

• In the former three, there's barely a moment where people aren't loudly freaking the hell out. Most people probably didn't even know who Terry was and they were freaking out for him.
• In the latter case, you'd get a few people freaking out for about 5 seconds or so before everything falls dead-ass silent. This happened at least twice, and most of the time people were quiet.

These mother****ers will literally cheer for anything and they weren't cheering for Byleth. That speaks volumes for how divisive this character choice was. Sure, there were people who liked Byleth's reveal, but they are very clearly in the minority.

I was waiting for this one! Thank you!

 

[Sigran101]

Easy way to showcase this: Watch the Nintendo NY Store reactions to Banjo or Hero or even Terry, then compare them to the reactions towards Byleth. It's ****ing night and goddamn day.

• In the former three, there's barely a moment where people aren't loudly freaking the hell out. Most people probably didn't even know who Terry was and they were freaking out for him.
• In the latter case, you'd get a few people freaking out for about 5 seconds or so before everything falls dead-ass silent. This happened at least twice, and most of the time people were quiet.

These mother****ers will literally cheer for anything and they weren't cheering for Byleth. That speaks volumes for how divisive this character choice was. Sure, there were people who liked Byleth's reveal, but they are very clearly in the minority.

Also this is false. People keep saying this because it makes Byleth look worse, but watch the actual video. They weren't as loud as usual, but the crowd was pretty hyped. Stop spreading this. See for yourself

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I find it very funny that this some on this thread have no problem bashing anyone else not named Geno, but will get really upset when people do the same to him in this thread. (Or elsewhere)

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Personally, I just want people to understand my frustrations and not throw a "hoes mad" image in my face. I think it's fine to want and enjoy byleth. But you're delusional if you're acting like there aren't very real and valid misgivings about the timing of their inclusion.

 

[Sigran101]

I find it very funny that this some on this thread have no problem bashing anyone else not named Geno, but will get really upset when people do the same to him in this thread. (Or elsewhere)

Seriously. As a huge Geno fan it annoys me to see his supporters treating others the way detractors treat us here.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I find it very funny that this some on this thread have no problem bashing anyone else not named Geno, but will get really upset when people do the same to him in this thread. (Or elsewhere)

You don't see me venting my frustrations in the byleth thread, do you? They can complain about geno all they want to in that thread, just don't bring it here

 

[Firox]

Also this is false. People keep saying this because it makes Byleth look worse, but watch the actual video. They weren't as loud as usual, but the crowd was pretty hyped. Stop spreading this.

While I agree that Byleth's general reception was no where near the hype of the other DLC, I've seen the video and also agree with you that the crowd seemed pretty hyped. It's actually a pretty bad example on the part of detractors to paint Byleth's reveal as lack luster. Then again, as others have stated, what does it matter how Byleth was received? It's irrelevant. He's in. Forever. Love him or hate him, Sakurai has spoken. The End. Now, let's all just take it down a notch and focus on the characters that HAVEN'T been locked....like a certain blue puppet.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Okay, but you said Fire Emblem fans didn't want Byleth and that's objectively not true. Pretty much everyone in the Edelgard thread said they were happy with Byleth too. Poorly received, yeah obviously. But that's not what you said.

Edit: You have to understand that Byleth fans are sick of our character being **** on, so being told that even we don't like him because he's so bad is annoying even if that wasn't supposed to be the point.

Fine, I apologise for my wording... Moving on...

AND LETS MOVE ON!!!

So Geno seems likely as of right now. But the fear of another Square character is gonna be there. So my question would be, is there another franchise that Square would want to promote? FF7 Remake seems like an obvious choice, but as Fatman surmised, it would be kind of obnoxious to do that.

"OK so I know Cloud Strife didn't get much...but heres Sephiroth with more music and a NEW stage!" (but of course the music could also be on Midgar)

Kingdom Hearts seems like a no brainer, but Disney would be involved (to an extent) so who knows on that one.

Honestly, the absence of the Costume in the First Pass is huge. I guess time will tell.

The more time moves on, the less I see Kingdom Hearts as viable competition. One angle that's often not look at is how characters are depicted in Smash and how they come into Smash. Most of the third parties we get are strong enough to represent the entire company they come from. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Megaman, etc. This makes sense because they are the stars of multiple games and the main characters of their respective franchises. Then you get to characters like Cloud and Joker who only star in one mainline game.

Cloud- Pretty much the face of Final Fantasy and Square Enix. No arguments there. It doesn't matter that FF VII wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms, Final Fantasy and Square Enix already have a super rich history with Nintendo. Tons of games. Tons of exclusives. Their relationship is technically over 30 years old. Cloud is pretty much the signature character to represent Square Enix as a whole.

Joker- A similar situation to Cloud but much more new. In a very short amount of time, Joker has pretty much become the main mascot of Atlus. Coincidentally, Altus has had a relationship with Nintendo about as long as Square Enix:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlus_games

Persona has very quickly become Atlus's signature series so, again, it's irrelevant that Persona 5 wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms. Atlus has been a pretty solid Nintendo ally for a long time so it's another case of "who better to represent them than their main character?" Like how Cloud is basically the signature Square Enix mascot, Joker is more or less the same for Altus.

This is where we move onto Sora and Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is an overwhelmingly Sony favored series. All the mainline games have been on Sony platforms and there's been zero ports. Kingdom Hearts had a spin-offs on Nintendo handhelds but all eventually stopped being exclusives and were completely remastered on Sony platforms... Multiple times. On that end, Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a super Nintendo friendly series. It's overwhelmingly Sony.

Let's compare this to something like, say, Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear started on the NES, Metal Gear Solid started on the PS1. The first remasters for Metal Gear Solid were on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid also got several ports to Nintendo platforms too. It's a reverse situation to Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts had Nintendo exclusive spin-offs but then got significantly better remasters on Sony platforms. Metal Gear Solid had Sony exclusive mainline games but then got remasters on Nintendo platforms. That's where the difference lies.

So, as kind of a recap, Kingdom Hearts is basically a Sony franchise. Born on PlayStation 2, gives the mainline games and remasters to Sony, the Nintendo exclusives were super short lived, etc. It overwhelmingly gravitates back to Sony time and time again, it doesn't exactly help that there's no ports yet despite being possible as early as the Wii U/3DS, and the last one released on a Nintendo platform was 2012 (and then fairly quickly lost its exclusive status). Yes, Smash has turned into a celebration of gaming but Nintendo is still the frame of reference that everything gravitates towards. Series are not primarily celebrated exclusively for themselves but because of their overall relationship to Nintendo. This is why "Sony" characters like Snake, Cloud, and Joker really aren't because, in the big picture, Nintendo is still a big part of their companies and/or franchises. With that in mind, Kingdom Hearts is not important to Nintendo and Nintendo is not important to Kingdom Hearts.

 

[MattX20]

Fine, I apologise for my wording... Moving on...



The more time moves on, the less I see Kingdom Hearts as viable competition. One angle that's often not look at is how characters are depicted in Smash and how they come into Smash. Most of the third parties we get are strong enough to represent the entire company they come from. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Megaman, etc. This makes sense because they are the stars of multiple games and the main characters of their respective franchises. Then you get to characters like Cloud and Joker who only star in one mainline game.

Cloud- Pretty much the face of Final Fantasy and Square Enix. No arguments there. It doesn't matter that FF VII wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms, Final Fantasy and Square Enix already have a super rich history with Nintendo. Tons of games. Tons of exclusives. Their relationship is technically over 30 years old. Cloud is pretty much the signature character to represent Square Enix as a whole.

Joker- A similar situation to Cloud but much more new. In a very short amount of time, Joker has pretty much become the main mascot of Atlus. Coincidentally, Altus has had a relationship with Nintendo about as long as Square Enix:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlus_games

Persona has very quickly become Atlus's signature series so, again, it's irrelevant that Persona 5 wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms. Atlus has been a pretty solid Nintendo ally for a long time so it's another case of "who better to represent them than their main character?" Like how Cloud is basically the signature Square Enix mascot, Joker is more or less the same for Altus.

This is where we move onto Sora and Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is an overwhelmingly Sony favored series. All the mainline games have been on Sony platforms and there's been zero ports. Kingdom Hearts had a spin-offs on Nintendo handhelds but all eventually stopped being exclusives and we completely remastered on Sony platforms... Multiple times. On that end, Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a super Nintendo friendly series. It's overwhelmingly Sony.

Let's compare this to something like, say, Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear started on the NES, Metal Gear Solid started on the PS1. The first remasters for Metal Gear Solid were on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid also got several ports to Nintendo platforms too. It's a reverse situation to Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts had Nintendo exclusive spin-offs but then got significantly better remasters on Sony platforms. Metal Gear Solid had Sony exclusive mainline games but then got remasters on Nintendo platforms. That's where the difference lies.

So, as kind of a recap, Kingdom Hearts is basically a Sony franchise. Born on PlayStation 2, gives the mainline games and remasters to Sony, the Nintendo exclusives were super short lived, etc. It overwhelmingly gravitates back to Sony time and time again, it doesn't exactly help that there's no ports yet despite being possible as early as the Wii U/3DS, and the last one released on a Nintendo platform was 2012 (and then fairly quickly lost its exclusive status). Yes, Smash has turned into a celebration of gaming but Nintendo is still the frame of reference that everything gravitates towards. Series are not primarily celebrated exclusively for themselves but because of their overall relationship to Nintendo. This is why "Sony" characters like Snake, Cloud, and Joker really aren't because, in the big picture, Nintendo is still a big part of their companies and/or franchises. With that in mind, Kingdom Hearts is not important to Nintendo and Nintendo is not important to Kingdom Hearts.

That, and we mustn't forget that Crono from Chrono Trigger, despite only being in one game, got released on the Super Nintendo and ported to the DS years later as arguably the definitive version of it. Like Geno, Crono is closer to Nintendo platforms.

 

[Firox]

That, and we mustn't forget that Crono from Chrono Trigger, despite only being in one game, got released on the Super Nintendo and ported to the DS years later as arguably the definitive version of it. Like Geno, Crono is closer to Nintendo platforms.

This is an interesting point. Legacy-wise, Chrono would probably have more going for him than Sora or 2B, in addition to the fact that he was a main character, unlike Geno. That said, Geno would vastly beat out Chrono's general popularity and cult following among Smash fandom. One thing I do want to point out though is that (to my knowledge) the Persona Franchise (not SMT) had zero presence on a Nintendo system prior to Joker's inclusion. Why bring that up? Because regardless of Nintendo's direct involvement with a given franchise, I think we're grossly underestimating Sakurai's ability to tip the scales in favor of his own personal biases. If he really wants someone, regardless of their background or ownership, I'm fairly solid in the belief that he can get them. The question is, who does he really want? This could be Geno's boon or his silver bullet.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I find it very funny that this some on this thread have no problem bashing anyone else not named Geno, but will get really upset when people do the same to him in this thread. (Or elsewhere)

But who cares? Nobody is going into the Byleth thread or harassing Byleth fans. This is literally happening because I spoke too strongly and people got offended. "Well, don't speak for us." Seriously? Since when am I an authority on literally ****ing anything, let alone Fire Emblem? It's baffling. C'mon people, what am I: an authority or some jack off? This is what kills me. Why does my opinion matter this much to people?

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Fine, I apologise for my wording... Moving on...



The more time moves on, the less I see Kingdom Hearts as viable competition. One angle that's often not look at is how characters are depicted in Smash and how they come into Smash. Most of the third parties we get are strong enough to represent the entire company they come from. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Megaman, etc. This makes sense because they are the stars of multiple games and the main characters of their respective franchises. Then you get to characters like Cloud and Joker who only star in one mainline game.

Cloud- Pretty much the face of Final Fantasy and Square Enix. No arguments there. It doesn't matter that FF VII wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms, Final Fantasy and Square Enix already have a super rich history with Nintendo. Tons of games. Tons of exclusives. Their relationship is technically over 30 years old. Cloud is pretty much the signature character to represent Square Enix as a whole.

Joker- A similar situation to Cloud but much more new. In a very short amount of time, Joker has pretty much become the main mascot of Atlus. Coincidentally, Altus has had a relationship with Nintendo about as long as Square Enix:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlus_games

Persona has very quickly become Atlus's signature series so, again, it's irrelevant that Persona 5 wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms. Atlus has been a pretty solid Nintendo ally for a long time so it's another case of "who better to represent them than their main character?" Like how Cloud is basically the signature Square Enix mascot, Joker is more or less the same for Altus.

This is where we move onto Sora and Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is an overwhelmingly Sony favored series. All the mainline games have been on Sony platforms and there's been zero ports. Kingdom Hearts had a spin-offs on Nintendo handhelds but all eventually stopped being exclusives and we completely remastered on Sony platforms... Multiple times. On that end, Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a super Nintendo friendly series. It's overwhelmingly Sony.

Let's compare this to something like, say, Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear started on the NES, Metal Gear Solid started on the PS1. The first remasters for Metal Gear Solid were on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid also got several ports to Nintendo platforms too. It's a reverse situation to Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts had Nintendo exclusive spin-offs but then got significantly better remasters on Sony platforms. Metal Gear Solid had Sony exclusive mainline games but then got remasters on Nintendo platforms. That's where the difference lies.

So, as kind of a recap, Kingdom Hearts is basically a Sony franchise. Born on PlayStation 2, gives the mainline games and remasters to Sony, the Nintendo exclusives were super short lived, etc. It overwhelmingly gravitates back to Sony time and time again, it doesn't exactly help that there's no ports yet despite being possible as early as the Wii U/3DS, and the last one released on a Nintendo platform was 2012 (and then fairly quickly lost its exclusive status). Yes, Smash has turned into a celebration of gaming but Nintendo is still the frame of reference that everything gravitates towards. Series are not primarily celebrated exclusively for themselves but because of their overall relationship to Nintendo. This is why "Sony" characters like Snake, Cloud, and Joker really aren't because, in the big picture, Nintendo is still a big part of their companies and/or franchises. With that in mind, Kingdom Hearts is not important to Nintendo and Nintendo is not important to Kingdom Hearts.

If Nintendo history truly mattered as much as you are trying to make it out to be, then Jack Frost would’ve been chosen over Joker, especially since he is the company’s mascot.

This rule of “must have Nintendo association” has been broken time and time again, but the goal posts keep getting moved by people who firmly believe Smash must be Nintendo only.

And the amazing thing is, this isn’t even Soras main problem. The series has had multiple games on GBA, DS, and 3DS

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You don't see me venting my frustrations in the byleth thread, do you? They can complain about geno all they want to in that thread, just don't bring it here

Heh funny thing is they havent once talked about Geno in the Byleth thread but other threads love to talk **** about FE lol

So my question would be, is there another franchise that Square would want to promote?

besides Geno, the only one I can think of is KH.. Smrpg and kh are the only ones I can think of. Id say FF but we already got Cloud

 

[MattX20]

This is an interesting point. Legacy-wise, Chrono would probably have more going for him than Sora or 2B, in addition to the fact that he was a main character, unlike Geno. That said, Geno would vastly beat out Chrono's general popularity and cult following among Smash fandom. One thing I do want to point out though is that (to my knowledge) the Persona Franchise (not SMT) had zero presence on a Nintendo system prior to Joker's inclusion. Why bring that up? Because regardless of Nintendo's direct involvement with a given franchise, I think we're grossly underestimating Sakurai's ability to tip the scales in favor of his own personal biases. If he really wants someone, regardless of their background or ownership, I'm fairly solid in the belief that he can get them. The question is, who does he really want? This could be Geno's boon or his silver bullet.

If we go by the interview with Nintendo Dream, I'd say it's a boon for Geno. The only thing holding him back is Square Enix

 

[AugustusB]

Heh funny thing is they havent once talked about Geno in the Byleth thread but other threads love to talk **** about FE lol

besides Geno, the only one I can think of is KH.. Smrpg and kh are the only ones I can think of. Id say FF but we already got Cloud

Honestly...why not both? The best of both worlds.

EDIT: Yeah, the Byleth thread is pretty chill, but other threads will just not let it be.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

This rule of “must have Nintendo association” has been broken time and time again, but the goal posts keep getting moved by people who firmly believe Smash must be Nintendo only.

That rule was broken as soon as Joker got shown and to go back further, Cloud

 

[TriggerX]

Fine, I apologise for my wording... Moving on...



The more time moves on, the less I see Kingdom Hearts as viable competition. One angle that's often not look at is how characters are depicted in Smash and how they come into Smash. Most of the third parties we get are strong enough to represent the entire company they come from. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Megaman, etc. This makes sense because they are the stars of multiple games and the main characters of their respective franchises. Then you get to characters like Cloud and Joker who only star in one mainline game.

Cloud- Pretty much the face of Final Fantasy and Square Enix. No arguments there. It doesn't matter that FF VII wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms, Final Fantasy and Square Enix already have a super rich history with Nintendo. Tons of games. Tons of exclusives. Their relationship is technically over 30 years old. Cloud is pretty much the signature character to represent Square Enix as a whole.

Joker- A similar situation to Cloud but much more new. In a very short amount of time, Joker has pretty much become the main mascot of Atlus. Coincidentally, Altus has had a relationship with Nintendo about as long as Square Enix:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlus_games

Persona has very quickly become Atlus's signature series so, again, it's irrelevant that Persona 5 wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms. Atlus has been a pretty solid Nintendo ally for a long time so it's another case of "who better to represent them than their main character?" Like how Cloud is basically the signature Square Enix mascot, Joker is more or less the same for Altus.

This is where we move onto Sora and Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is an overwhelmingly Sony favored series. All the mainline games have been on Sony platforms and there's been zero ports. Kingdom Hearts had a spin-offs on Nintendo handhelds but all eventually stopped being exclusives and were completely remastered on Sony platforms... Multiple times. On that end, Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a super Nintendo friendly series. It's overwhelmingly Sony.

Let's compare this to something like, say, Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear started on the NES, Metal Gear Solid started on the PS1. The first remasters for Metal Gear Solid were on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid also got several ports to Nintendo platforms too. It's a reverse situation to Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts had Nintendo exclusive spin-offs but then got significantly better remasters on Sony platforms. Metal Gear Solid had Sony exclusive mainline games but then got remasters on Nintendo platforms. That's where the difference lies.

So, as kind of a recap, Kingdom Hearts is basically a Sony franchise. Born on PlayStation 2, gives the mainline games and remasters to Sony, the Nintendo exclusives were super short lived, etc. It overwhelmingly gravitates back to Sony time and time again, it doesn't exactly help that there's no ports yet despite being possible as early as the Wii U/3DS, and the last one released on a Nintendo platform was 2012 (and then fairly quickly lost its exclusive status). Yes, Smash has turned into a celebration of gaming but Nintendo is still the frame of reference that everything gravitates towards. Series are not primarily celebrated exclusively for themselves but because of their overall relationship to Nintendo. This is why "Sony" characters like Snake, Cloud, and Joker really aren't because, in the big picture, Nintendo is still a big part of their companies and/or franchises. With that in mind, Kingdom Hearts is not important to Nintendo and Nintendo is not important to Kingdom Hearts.

I agree and you’ve made some good points, however this kind of logic shoots down characters like Master Chief and Dante as possible candidates.
I mean I can’t say any of those characters are important to Nintendo.

Disney itself is important to Nintendo, and it’s hard to say where Nintendo would be without them. So he could very well get in as a nod to their history.

Overall it’s hard to even determine what character is of importance to Nintendo. Look at Geno’s situation, can’t really say the character carries any significance in their eyes since he remains largely unused since Smrpg.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Heh funny thing is they havent once talked about Geno in the Byleth thread but other threads love to talk **** about FE lol

besides Geno, the only one I can think of is KH.. Smrpg and kh are the only ones I can think of. Id say FF but we already got Cloud

The point I'm trying to make is that it's perfectly ok to dislike and even not want geno (or any character, for that matter). People are allowed to have preferences. Just don't go to the fan thread and try to school them on how their character sux.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Honestly...why not both? The best of both worlds.

yo, Id be down for a Geno Sora Combo meal. If it means I get my Keyblade master- oop I mean Keyblade Wielder and you get your puppet and everyone is happy, then Lay it on me

 

[nessdeltarune00]

That rule was broken as soon as Joker got shown and to go back further, Cloud

Exactly the point I was making.

 

[Heoj]

A geno and sora double reveal at e3 would literally blow up the damn planet.
Its definitely not happening but it would be the hypest moment in smash history

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I think if geno does get revealed, as tempting as it will be (and it WILL be tempting) to rub salt in the wounds of his detractors. I think I'm gonna try a different approach. I think it'd be mighty cool of us to break the "hoes mad" cycle and meet frustration with understanding and a hope that they'll come to appreciate the character in time.

 

[AugustusB]

yo, Id be down for a Geno Sora Combo meal. If it means I get my Keyblade master and you get your puppet and everyone is happy, then Lay it on me

This would be the ideal dream. Though I do not show support here, I am a BIG fan of Kingdom Hearts. After Joker, Sora has kind of become my new 'never ever'.

EDIT: Dynamic Worlok sadly, it will happen regardless. I do agree IF it happens, we should be respectful and not go that route.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Hold the phone Fatmanonice , I just noticed another huge hole in what you just said.

You claim Sora won’t get in due to lack of historical Nintendo association, but you have been adamant that Dante and Master Chief are coming in the next Fighter Pass. (The latter has never even been on a Nintendo console unlike Sora)

I understand that this is a Geno thread and all, but making up reasons on why the competition is less likely isn’t going to help Genos chances at all.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

yo, Id be down for a Geno Sora Combo meal. If it means I get my Keyblade master and you get your puppet and everyone is happy, then Lay it on me

I know there's something of an unspoken rivalry between sora and geno fans, but to be perfectly honest, I'd be ok with Sora, even in the frustrating scenario where he gets in instead of geno. I liked Kingdom hearts a lot (barring a couple design decisions) and sora would be multi-platinum big.

Hold the phone Fatmanonice

I understand that this is a Geno thread and all, but making up reasons on why the competition is less likely isn’t going to help Genos chances at all.

I mean, it's not really gonna hurt them either. It's mostly useless (like all speculation, really. But it keeps us entertained)

 

[MattX20]

Hold the phone Fatmanonice , I just noticed another huge hole in what you just said.

You claim Sora won’t get in due to lack of historical Nintendo association, but you have been adamant that Dante and Master Chief are coming in the next Fighter Pass. (The latter has never even been on a Nintendo console unlike Sora)

I understand that this is a Geno thread and all, but making up reasons on why the competition is less likely isn’t going to help Genos chances at all.

Dante's been getting a big push lately from Capcom on the Switch, potentially getting announcements for Devil May Cry 4 and 5 later on in the future. Master Chief Collection for the Switch has been heavily rumored lately too, and that is a possibility given Nintendo and Microsoft's relations have become more positive in the past few years.

 

[Sigran101]

Fine, I apologise for my wording... Moving on...



The more time moves on, the less I see Kingdom Hearts as viable competition. One angle that's often not look at is how characters are depicted in Smash and how they come into Smash. Most of the third parties we get are strong enough to represent the entire company they come from. Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Megaman, etc. This makes sense because they are the stars of multiple games and the main characters of their respective franchises. Then you get to characters like Cloud and Joker who only star in one mainline game.

Cloud- Pretty much the face of Final Fantasy and Square Enix. No arguments there. It doesn't matter that FF VII wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms, Final Fantasy and Square Enix already have a super rich history with Nintendo. Tons of games. Tons of exclusives. Their relationship is technically over 30 years old. Cloud is pretty much the signature character to represent Square Enix as a whole.

Joker- A similar situation to Cloud but much more new. In a very short amount of time, Joker has pretty much become the main mascot of Atlus. Coincidentally, Altus has had a relationship with Nintendo about as long as Square Enix:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlus_games

Persona has very quickly become Atlus's signature series so, again, it's irrelevant that Persona 5 wasn't originally on Nintendo platforms. Atlus has been a pretty solid Nintendo ally for a long time so it's another case of "who better to represent them than their main character?" Like how Cloud is basically the signature Square Enix mascot, Joker is more or less the same for Altus.

This is where we move onto Sora and Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is an overwhelmingly Sony favored series. All the mainline games have been on Sony platforms and there's been zero ports. Kingdom Hearts had a spin-offs on Nintendo handhelds but all eventually stopped being exclusives and were completely remastered on Sony platforms... Multiple times. On that end, Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly a super Nintendo friendly series. It's overwhelmingly Sony.

Let's compare this to something like, say, Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear started on the NES, Metal Gear Solid started on the PS1. The first remasters for Metal Gear Solid were on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid also got several ports to Nintendo platforms too. It's a reverse situation to Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts had Nintendo exclusive spin-offs but then got significantly better remasters on Sony platforms. Metal Gear Solid had Sony exclusive mainline games but then got remasters on Nintendo platforms. That's where the difference lies.

So, as kind of a recap, Kingdom Hearts is basically a Sony franchise. Born on PlayStation 2, gives the mainline games and remasters to Sony, the Nintendo exclusives were super short lived, etc. It overwhelmingly gravitates back to Sony time and time again, it doesn't exactly help that there's no ports yet despite being possible as early as the Wii U/3DS, and the last one released on a Nintendo platform was 2012 (and then fairly quickly lost its exclusive status). Yes, Smash has turned into a celebration of gaming but Nintendo is still the frame of reference that everything gravitates towards. Series are not primarily celebrated exclusively for themselves but because of their overall relationship to Nintendo. This is why "Sony" characters like Snake, Cloud, and Joker really aren't because, in the big picture, Nintendo is still a big part of their companies and/or franchises. With that in mind, Kingdom Hearts is not important to Nintendo and Nintendo is not important to Kingdom Hearts.

I appreciate that. I want you to know that I generally like and respect you. This stuff is just starting to grate on me is all.

 

[OffBi]

Hold the phone Fatmanonice , I just noticed another huge hole in what you just said.

You claim Sora won’t get in due to lack of historical Nintendo association, but you have been adamant that Dante and Master Chief are coming in the next Fighter Pass. (The latter has never even been on a Nintendo console unlike Sora)

I understand that this is a Geno thread and all, but making up reasons on why the competition is less likely isn’t going to help Genos chances at all.

Sora can't work without disney, so he's not getting in

 

[Firox]

A geno and sora double reveal at e3 would literally blow up the damn planet.
Its definitely not happening but it would be the hypest moment in smash history

Holy ****, it would! My brain would melt under the massive nerd-gasm that would ensue. My only issue is that they would have to share a reveal trailer so as not to cause a salt storm among the fan bases in between trailers. Could you imagine getting one at the beginning of E3 and the other at the end?

"Ah, what the ****?! Sakurai put THAT guy in Smash?! What a travesty! What a hack! **** Sakurai! **** Smash Bros! I quit!"
"Hahahaha, LOSERS! Hoes mad! Suck on that! We all knew you never had a chance! Writhe in your pathetic-ness!"

(30 minutes later, the other character drops)

"Sakurai's a GENIUS! I always knew he'd come through for us! Never doubted for a second!"
"...............(chokes down more crow)........"

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I know there's something of an unspoken rivalry between sora and geno fans, but to be perfectly honest, I'd be ok with Sora, even in the frustrating scenario where he gets in instead of geno. I liked Kingdom hearts a lot (barring a couple design decisions) and sora would be multi-platinum big.

I have a feeling this rivalry stemps from "Sora is also a SE character( save the "hes not a SE character" lecture for later yall pff) and we cant have him beat Geno to smash" which is sad because it isnt a competition

 

[RetrogamerMax]

A geno and sora double reveal at e3 would literally blow up the damn planet.
Its definitely not happening but it would be the hypest moment in smash history

That's really hard to say though as I don't think anything will top off E3 2018 with "Everyone Is Here!" plus Inkling, Daisy, and Ridley. We will never seen anything like that again honestly.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Dante's been getting a big push lately from Capcom on the Switch, potentially getting announcements for Devil May Cry 4 and 5 later on in the future. Master Chief Collection for the Switch has been heavily rumored lately too, and that is a possibility given Nintendo and Microsoft's relations have become more positive in the past few years.

It doesn't matter, Fatmans argument was that Sora wouldn’t get in soley because he historically hasn’t really had strong ties with Nintendo, but the same could be applied to Dante, (whose games didn’t even get ported until recently) and Master Chief (whose hypothetical port has been relegated to just rumors right now)

Ironically, Sora has had Nintendo ties ever since the GBA days, which is way longer than those two have had.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Nintendo history truly mattered as much as you are trying to make it out to be, then Jack Frost would’ve been chosen over Joker, especially since he is the company’s mascot.

This rule of “must have Nintendo association” has been broken time and time again, but the goal posts keep getting moved by people who firmly believe Smash must be Nintendo only.

And the amazing thing is, this isn’t even Soras main problem. The series has had multiple games on GBA, DS, and 3DS

Except I explained why that's not true. Both Altus and Square Enix got their start on Nintendo platforms. Final Fantasy has an especially rich history with Nintendo, even having the first 6 mainline games. If you then go into ports, remasters, and exclusives on Nintendo platforms, the list is super expansive. Cloud is inarguably the most popular and most recognized Final Fantasy protagonist to the point that Cloud is argued to be the best character to not only represent Square Enix but JRPGs period.

Again, there are roughly 50 Final Fantasy games on Nintendo platforms alone, not even counting Square Enix games altogether:

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_(series)

Like I posted earlier, Altus has a relationship with Nintendo that goes back to the 80's. Their first ever game was on the NES and it was Megami Tensei, their signature series which Persona ultimately came from. Why have Jack Frost when Persona 5 was one of the company's best sellers, won awards all over the world, has multiple spin-offs, has inspired several Joker cameos even before Smash, etc. Like in the Cloud example, it just makes sense to go with Joker, just as it makes sense to go with Cloud instead of Moogle.