Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Droodle]

That’s a weak argument though. Last week we could’ve said a company like Ubisoft (who has no playable character in smash) couldn’t randomly get 2 fresh new mii costumes with an unrelated character. Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean we should assume that it is a rule

I mean the entire discussion around Cacomallow is entirely hypothetical, so it's nearly impossible to create strong arguments for it by this point.

As far as I'm concerned Doom content in Smash is likely not happening at this point. The interview was big nail in the coffin.
I fully believe that Geno is coming back as a costume now.

 

[MisterMike]

wat shud genos recovery b?

There are two ideas that I really like:
The first one is one I came up with when I made by Geno moveset post: Basically, Geno's star spirit leaves his body, flies a short distance upwards (can be shifted somewhat by the player), and then the costume zips over to where the star is now and recombines with it. The star doesn't have a hurtbox, but the puppet body does. At least until it begins moving towards the star, in which case it replaces that hurtbox with a hitbox to attack opponents and prevent gimping or footstooling. A better way to describe this would be to think of Zelda's Up-Special, only her body doesn't warp and is used as a hitbox.

The second idea, I forgot who suggested it, is that Geno uses those 8-directional flowers to jump. In SMRPG, there are these flowers that you stand on and they slowly spin you around. When you jump, you'll be launched in the direction that you're facing.

The cannon-tranformation from his strong attack that was used in Project M is the most elegant solution

Gonna be honest, I never really liked that idea. Like I know Geno has all sorts of rockets and cannons in his body, but I dunno, It always looked so weird to me. Though I'd be more willing to have that be his recovery than by taking Geno Boost literally.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I mean the entire discussion around Cacomallow is entirely hypothetical, so it's nearly impossible to create strong arguments for it by this point.

As far as I'm concerned Doom content in Smash is likely not happening at this point. The interview was big nail in the coffin.
I fully believe that Geno is coming back as a costume now.

You’re clearly free to believe that, but Cacomallow is far from the only legs that Geno has to stand on

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You’re clearly free to believe that, but Cacomallow is far from the only legs that Geno has to stand on

Indeed. The lack of a costume does help, there's no lack of requests, the spirit is admittedly a bit of a downer, but that's only for FP1 at least. We have no concrete information if that'll apply for FP2.

At best, we have to just wait and see right now. If he wasn't a costume now, then it's most likely they negotiated for a costume or the character during FP2. Considering they already worked with SE before, they could've even licensed him for further use while negotiating for Hero. What kind of further use we got no clue on, though.

 

[Droodle]

You’re clearly free to believe that, but Cacomallow is far from the only legs that Geno has to stand on

I agree with that, and I think Geno has a lot of points going for him other then Cacomallow.
Him getting a fighter is completely possible.

Personally, I think a Mii costume is a tad bit more likely; but if you think he's getting a fighter, that's fair too.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

gud idea

Also, I appreciate the efforts you put into your arguments and I agree with most of what you said. Even though it's not for me to decide, I for one personally welcome your discussions about the examples you brought up that originally stemmed from your original points relating to Geno's Mii costume. It saddens me to see people so quick to dismiss you and direct you to another thread directly related to the examples who happen to be another character. It's unfortunate but I don't see this thread being about civil dialogue anymore so, tread carefully my man. I'm picking up the scent of a lingering Big Brother.

There's only so much we can talk about Geno without boring ourselves and repeating ourselves over and over again.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I personally do not feel attacked by being told to go into another thread as i can understand the reaction because previous off-topic discussions resulted in the thread getting locked. In general throughout my time on this site, there were only two persons on this thread with whose behaviour towards me I had a problem with.

There are two ideas that I really like:
The first one is one I came up with when I made by Geno moveset post: Basically, Geno's star spirit leaves his body, flies a short distance upwards (can be shifted somewhat by the player), and then the costume zips over to where the star is now and recombines with it. The star doesn't have a hurtbox, but the puppet body does. At least until it begins moving towards the star, in which case it replaces that hurtbox with a hitbox to attack opponents and prevent gimping or footstooling. A better way to describe this would be to think of Zelda's Up-Special, only her body doesn't warp and is used as a hitbox.

The second idea, I forgot who suggested it, is that Geno uses those 8-directional flowers to jump. In SMRPG, there are these flowers that you stand on and they slowly spin you around. When you jump, you'll be launched in the direction that you're facing.


Gonna be honest, I never really liked that idea. Like I know Geno has all sorts of rockets and cannons in his body, but I dunno, It always looked so weird to me. Though I'd be more willing to have that be his recovery than by taking Geno Boost literally.

So, similar to Sonic's, Pac-Man's and Banjo's recovery with spawning an objct. I just don't feel the same "oomph" with a flower that i feel with a spring or a boost pad.
If adapting all of Geno's special attacks to the Smash Specials Geno Boost being adapted to the recovery would make sense. I could imagine it working similar to Rob's recovery. With the damage-making spot below the feet

 

[Deleted member]

I still believe in Cacomallow and that entirely has to do with my bias for being a Geno supporter. No shame.

But yes, in a world where literally everything was the same but the Cacomallow leak didn't exist, Geno would still have a ton going for him.

 

[JarBear]

I played for a few minutes on the Project M Legacy mod that has Geno,

It's pretty good and is pretty faithful to the character.

The Recovery is pretty neat since it plays off Geno Flash's Cannon transformation.

Geno Whirl is a decent compromise between gameplay and original move.

Geno beam, definitely plays true to the move ... but, I'm actually not a fan of it. lol, that' mostly since it's too easy to try and use geno whirl, but start charging up the beam, or try the time hit for geno whirl but starting charging again.

Geno blast - i understand the idea behind it, but kinda meh.

All in all, the mod is quite good. It at least gives us an idea about how the character could play.

 

[AugustusB]

wat shud genos recovery b?

I have said for a long time, Geno Blast would be a unique pick for up special.

Energy gathers above his head before being unleashed. On the ground, it could shot forward. If in the air, Geno could launch the energy below him, shooting him upwards.

 

[StarLight42]

I mean the entire discussion around Cacomallow is entirely hypothetical, so it's nearly impossible to create strong arguments for it by this point.

As far as I'm concerned Doom content in Smash is likely not happening at this point. The interview was big nail in the coffin.
I fully believe that Geno is coming back as a costume now.

This is a dumb leap in logic. I’ve been thinking cacomallow was fake ever since Sabi deconfirmed Doomslayer for F5, but that doesn’t automatically equate Geno to being a costume.

 

[Kirbeh]

It's not based on anything really, but I kind of figured that for Up Special Geno could just propel himself by blasting energy from his hands. Kind of like what already has. Not exactly any of those 3 specials, but similar. Not the best comparison, but for those familiar with My Hero Academia, I always pictured him propelling himself with a quick burst similar to what Bakugo does except with a more controlled blast of energy as opposed to a bunch of mini explosions.

Bear in mind, I'm still not done with SMRPG, and I know others want something more based on what he can actually do in game. As a general outsider I guess, the above is just how I imagine Geno with limited knowledge from videos and gifs along with ideas from actual longtime Geno fans.

 

[Datboigeno]

Something I’ve been thinking about is the time period that Sakurai chose the second DLC pass in and how significant that is for Geno. Everything points to this second pass being greenlighted in early to mid 2019 - mere months after the Grinch leak shook the Smash speculation world.

We know that Nintendo was aware of the leak and the fallout from it, but it was too late to do anything about it. They were extremely angry that it created expectations that were impossible to fulfill. The big players in the leak that made it so exciting to so many were Geno, Isaac, Shadow and Banjo. Let’s review the fate of these characters:

Banjo - Part of Fighter’s Pass 1. He made it and was already in production at the time of the Grinch leak, so his fate was already sealed in a wonderful way.

Shadow - Assist Trophy. Already set in stone at the time of the Grinch, nothing they can do about this. This fact combined with overwhelming evidence that DLC echo fighters were shot down means his chances are basically zero.

Isaac - also an Assist Trophy. Nintendo is also painfully aware of the fallout from saving the Isaac AT for last. They were genuinely so out of touch and surprised to find that we aren’t satisfied with a consensus top 5 popular character as a glorified item. Either way, sorry Isaac. I love you but your chances are also next to nothing. The outside loophole for Isaac is if they bring back Golden Sun via remake or 4th installment and decide to add Matthew in his stead (maybe even with an Isaac alt set), who looks and functions essentially the same way. Outside of that unlikely dream scenario, there is not much they can do about his fate at this point.

Geno - this leaves us with Geno. As we know, he was already a spirit and online icon, neither of which we have any reason to believe deconfirms him from coming post Fighter Pass 1.

So Geno is really the only popular Grinch Leak character that they could do anything about at the time. Every other character in the leak had a sealed fate (or weren’t heavily demanded such as Chorus Kids and Mach Rider) already. So this lines up perfectly with the overwhelmingly likely theory that the Geno mii costume was planned to return with Hero originally. By the time Fighter Pass 2 became a thing the Grinch Leak wounds were still fresh, and Geno could be saved. Thus the Geno costume was one of the first removed from the pass and therefore he was likely one of the first characters planned for the second pass.

This also makes sense because it would be much easier to negotiate for a character that they were already given rights to use in another capacity and with a company already heavily involved in the game. They could also use the omitted costume as a rough base for designing a character. Square Enix has gotten a taste of that delicious Smash Bros DLC money and never looked back. My guess, like most, is that he’s going to be one of the first 3. I’m not going so far as to say the Grinch Leak was the driving force for getting Geno in, but it seems like the leak happened at a perfect time to help give him the best shot he’s ever had at being playable.

I really do wonder if the Grinch Leak and it’s fallout was enough of a thing for SE to fully realize that people would actually be willing to go out and purchase a Geno character as DLC above other options like 2B or Sephiroth. For whatever reason Sakurai was never able to make it happen in Brawl or Smash 4 and it was likely either SE or Nintendo or both who rejected the request. Maybe it was because of their strained relationship at the time. But at this point SE and Nintendo have had years of watching fan demand that hasn’t died off and a huge surge especially with the fake leak. I also wonder if the internet’s response to Banjo, K. Rool and Ridley would be enough to tip things over for our puppet. They have to realize at this point that long tine fan requests getting in get a hugely positive response, and that Geno would meet that criteria.

 

[Droodle]

This is a dumb leap in logic. I’ve been thinking cacomallow was fake ever since Sabi deconfirmed Doomslayer for F5, but that doesn’t automatically equate Geno to being a costume.

Oh no, I was like 70% sure Geno would be costumed before Cacomallow. Even after, I wasn't on the side of Cacomallow being real; but I wasn't fully discounting it either.

To me, Cacomallow had always been Geno's biggest boon in terms of getting in. But as time goes on and on, the leak keeps on taking hits.

So now (after the Doom interview) I'm fully thinking Geno will be costumed; when before I was only 70% sure.

 

[MisterMike]

To me, Cacomallow had always been Geno's biggest boon in terms of getting in. But as time goes on and on, the leak keeps on taking hits.

Y'know, I always hear this sentiment when people talk about the CacoMallow Post, that there's all this evidence against it, but off the top of my head I've only heard these three points against it:

1. It could possibly have been modded by someone, so most likely it's fake.
2. Neither costume came alongside FP5, and since it's been about 2 months most likely it's fake.
3. This interview segment about Doomguy most likely not coming to Smash means that most likely it's fake.

Neither of these seem particularly solid to me, so maybe there's something I'm missing? I dunno, do you know what the biggest arguements against it are?

 

[SSGuy]

I think it is entirely possible Geno could be a costume. Even if Cacomallow was real, there was always a chance his costume came back with the Mallow one.

I still haven't seen anything of that quality yet so it does impress me and I wish to see the origin of the Cacomallow in the event this was fake. They still both look amazing.

 

[riggsbass]

Yeah... that interview pretty much killed Doomguy & Cacamallow. This is to direct to make a Kirkhope. Does this kill Genos chances though? Heck no

"This is too direct to make a Kirkhope"?? How would you even know that? I think there's still legs to stand on with the Cacomallow leak and that's because it hasn't totally been debunked - and no one knows who's responsible if it was - and it hasn't had substantial evidence to disprove it.

The interview definitely doesn't look good but there's still the frame that they're playing dumb for the NDA. Kirkhope kept quiet, and denied knowing or thinking anything. Bethesda talks about getting characters into Smash. If people were this tight-lipped about Byleth, it doesn't seem that farfetched.

Why the heck would they just give that information away when the hype could be astronomical? Especially with a new DOOM game literally on the horizon...

I'm all for whatever we get as long as it's Geno (costume or character) but I don't think it's unreasonable to still have some confidence in this one!

 

[pinshadow]

Meh, Cacomallow is still a hill I am willing to die on, and I'm saying that as someone who really doesn't buy into leaks or fall for fakes often. Didn't believe Rayman, Grinch, or any of the many obviously fake 4chan images and edits. My threshold for even starting to seriously consider something is clean, in match screenshots, and I'm still not backing anything without actual footage.

What really keeps me coming back to it is just how damn good the costumes actually look. I've spent an unhealthy amount of time with Brawl and Smash 4 mods, and I can say that even the best looking ones still have that "mod crust" as I like to call it, something that just makes them feel off. Weird animations and clipping, low poly models, bad textures, colors and lighting being off. Only some of the stuff in Project M and Smash 2 really hits the mark in my eyes, and thats in a game thats been experimented with way more than 4 and especially Ultimate.

These costumes don't have any of that crust. They look completely official, the designs and models look PERFECT, they both have what I feel is that special touch that Smash gives to stuff. You look at any of the stuff people made to prove that mii modding was possible and you see all that crust Im talking about. Bad lighting and colors, clipping and low quality models, super pixelated textures. Obviously all of those were made in a few days but its been 2 months now.

I'm not asking for an exact replica of the leak, just show me a mii mod that looks as good as them, I don't care what costume it is.

That being said, I don't really care if its real or not, or if you disagree with my feelings about it, I can get over being wrong about Smash Bros on the internet. After the interview and the Ubisoft costumes though, I am leaning way more into the idea of no Bethesda character, and just getting Mii's instead, which could actually serve to explain why these two seemingly random costumes were together if the Bethesda stuff would be hypothetically thrown in with the same costume pack.

 

[Lord Woomy]

What really keeps me coming back to it is just how damn good the costumes actually look. I've spent an unhealthy amount of time with Brawl and Smash 4 mods, and I can say that even the best looking ones still have that "mod crust" as I like to call it, something that just makes them feel off. Weird animations and clipping, low poly models, bad textures, colors and lighting being off. Only some of the stuff in Project M and Smash 2 really hits the mark in my eyes, and thats in a game thats been experimented with way more than 4 and especially Ultimate.

YES "mod crust" is definitely the best way to put it and this isn't even a Smash exclusive thing. Mods for so many other games never look like they were made by the actual developers because they aren't. Smash is probably one of the biggest proponents of this. Even a lot of the assets in Project M, despite being probably the best and most famous Smash mod to date, still have that crust to them that makes it look off from everything else.
If this was fake, this was the most impressive mock up of the style to date.

 

[bomamba]

YES "mod crust" is definitely the best way to put it and this isn't even a Smash exclusive thing. Mods for so many other games never look like they were made by the actual developers because they aren't. Smash is probably one of the biggest proponents of this. Even a lot of the assets in Project M, despite being probably the best and most famous Smash mod to date, still have that crust to them that makes it look off from everything else.
If this was fake, this was the most impressive mock up of the style to date.

If it’s fake, hire whoever designed the costumes. If that was just a mod, imagine what they could do with actual Nintendo-quality resources.

 

[MisterMike]

If it’s fake, hire whoever designed the costumes. If that was just a mod, imagine what they could do with actual Nintendo-quality resources.

Oh god, that Freddy Fazbear costume is going to be so HYPER REALISTIC!

 

[Datboigeno]

Oh no, I was like 70% sure Geno would be costumed before Cacomallow. Even after, I wasn't on the side of Cacomallow being real; but I wasn't fully discounting it either.

To me, Cacomallow had always been Geno's biggest boon in terms of getting in. But as time goes on and on, the leak keeps on taking hits.

So now (after the Doom interview) I'm fully thinking Geno will be costumed; when before I was only 70% sure.

I feel like bigger boosts are:

- Sakurai going on-record as saying he tried to make him a playable character in Brawl/Smash 4

- First party franchises are fair game for FP

-The SMRPG mii costume list

-His mii costume not being added with Hero

Really, Cacomallow is far from the only thing Geno has going for him

 

[Firox]

As far as I'm concerned Doom content in Smash is likely not happening at this point. The interview was big nail in the coffin.
I fully believe that Geno is coming back as a costume now.

You ARE aware that Cacomallow wasn't the only thing going for Geno, right? Even if Doom is out, that doesn't instantly mean Geno is screwed. C'mon, people, stop drawing such wild conclusions with such insufficient data.

Meh, Cacomallow is still a hill I am willing to die on, and I'm saying that as someone who really doesn't buy into leaks or fall for fakes often. Didn't believe Rayman, Grinch, or any of the many obviously fake 4chan images and edits. My threshold for even starting to seriously consider something is clean, in match screenshots, and I'm still not backing anything without actual footage.

What really keeps me coming back to it is just how damn good the costumes actually look. I've spent an unhealthy amount of time with Brawl and Smash 4 mods, and I can say that even the best looking ones still have that "mod crust" as I like to call it, something that just makes them feel off. Weird animations and clipping, low poly models, bad textures, colors and lighting being off. Only some of the stuff in Project M and Smash 2 really hits the mark in my eyes, and thats in a game thats been experimented with way more than 4 and especially Ultimate.

These costumes don't have any of that crust. They look completely official, the designs and models look PERFECT, they both have what I feel is that special touch that Smash gives to stuff. You look at any of the stuff people made to prove that mii modding was possible and you see all that crust Im talking about. Bad lighting and colors, clipping and low quality models, super pixelated textures. Obviously all of those were made in a few days but its been 2 months now.

I'm not asking for an exact replica of the leak, just show me a mii mod that looks as good as them, I don't care what costume it is.

That being said, I don't really care if its real or not, or if you disagree with my feelings about it, I can get over being wrong about Smash Bros on the internet. After the interview and the Ubisoft costumes though, I am leaning way more into the idea of no Bethesda character, and just getting Mii's instead, which could actually serve to explain why these two seemingly random costumes were together if the Bethesda stuff would be hypothetically thrown in with the same costume pack.

Man, wish I could like a comment multiple times.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

- First party franchises are fair game for FP

Geno is 100% 3rd party. The rest, I agree with, but this wouldn't matter in this situation.

Now, what might is that a franchise can still be Fighter's Pass even if it's used among the current game. As shown by Byleth. Super Mario could still get another character(unless SMRPG is treated as its own franchise, anyway, but it's still among the Mario spirits, so... but overall, it wouldn't matter either way).

 

[AceAttorney9000]

How do you guys imagine a hypothetical Geno trailer would play out? My personal basic rough idea at this point is that it's a WOL trailer with Galeem sending out minions against the Mario cast and Geno's spirit repossesses the body and comes in for the save.

Not gonna lie, throughout the Byleth presentation, I was expecting some sort of double reveal.

Imagine if Geno's reveal trailer was a "sequel" to Byleth's, where it turns out that the only reason the latter was able to join Smash at all was because Sothis made a wish...

 

[JarBear]

I wouldn't say the interview is such a nail in the coffin. There isn't a simple "yes" or "no." It was a very politician like response.

Also, looks what happened in the last direct with Mii's. Ubisoft Mii costumes but no character? So it could be possible to just have the Cacademon and now DoomGuy/Slayer.

Anything is possible people. We got Friggin Byleth for the 5th DLC character in the pass. Come on.

So the leak could be real. We now have president of getting third party mii costumes WITHOUT a full fledged character.

 

[Datboigeno]

Geno is 100% 3rd party. The rest, I agree with, but this wouldn't matter in this situation.

Now, what might is that a franchise can still be Fighter's Pass even if it's used among the current game. As shown by Byleth. Super Mario could still get another character(unless SMRPG is treated as its own franchise, anyway, but it's still among the Mario spirits, so... but overall, it wouldn't matter either way).

That’s exactly what I meant lol A factor people counted against Geno was the idea that FPs would only be franchises not yet represented in SSBU which Mario obviously is and Geno’s spirit is categorized as a Mario character. Geno fits into a weird spot of being owned by a 3rd party but appearing in 1st party content exclusively.

 

[Firox]

I wouldn't say the interview is such a nail in the coffin. There isn't a simple "yes" or "no." It was a very politician like response.

Also, looks what happened in the last direct with Mii's. Ubisoft Mii costumes but no character? So it could be possible to just have the Cacademon and now DoomGuy/Slayer.

Anything is possible people. We got Friggin Byleth for the 5th DLC character in the pass. Come on.

So the leak could be real. We now have president of getting third party mii costumes WITHOUT a full fledged character.

Yup, the data we have so far has obliterated pretty much any fan rule you can imagine except for Spirits and Assist Trophies getting upgraded. Even then, you could just as easily say that that's yet more rules to be broken. At this point, I'm convinced that Sakurai could get away with whatever the hell he wants.

 

[Icewolff92]

"This is too direct to make a Kirkhope"?? How would you even know that? I think there's still legs to stand on with the Cacomallow leak and that's because it hasn't totally been debunked - and no one knows who's responsible if it was - and it hasn't had substantial evidence to disprove it.

The interview definitely doesn't look good but there's still the frame that they're playing dumb for the NDA. Kirkhope kept quiet, and denied knowing or thinking anything. Bethesda talks about getting characters into Smash. If people were this tight-lipped about Byleth, it doesn't seem that farfetched.

Why the heck would they just give that information away when the hype could be astronomical? Especially with a new DOOM game literally on the horizon...

I'm all for whatever we get as long as it's Geno (costume or character) but I don't think it's unreasonable to still have some confidence in this one!

Kirkhope danced around the question, This director did not. It was basically right on cue like the producer who said "yes" when people asked him if they talked with Nintendo for Smash. He downright said, "we have talked to Nintendo but nothing serious happen"... That is like how straight forward as you can be.

His answer also goes in line with the "ask the Smash Brothers producers". This is Bethesda confirming that they are pushing for him while disconfirming him for the pass.

And concidering people belive Gamxplain has insider information. Guess who just talked about that interview speaking that it looks like Doomsday for DoomGuy... Thats right, Jon did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u3G1IJp-2o&t=0s

 

[owjies]

We also still have that quote from Sakurai's Banjo interview: "King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!" That's where I'm deriving the most hope for Geno right now.

That suggests to me that there are going to be one or more "ballot" style challenger packs in FP2. We'll just have to wait and see if it's a costume or a character at this point for Geno. The wait's gonna be grueling, so I'm going to just stay cautiously optimistic -- 50/50ish.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kirkhope danced around the question, This director did not. It was basically right on cue like the producer who said "yes" when people asked him if they talked with Nintendo for Smash. His answer also goes in line with the "ask the Smash Brothers producers". This is Bethesda pushing for Doomguy if anything

Honestly? I don't think Kirkhope danced around it at all. At least not to the fans. They don't work in NDA's, so don't know what's acceptable and what's not. It was a clear no for a ton of people. The fanbase's sole hope was an NDA factor. I know, cause I was active in that thread the entire time and can safely say that suggestions of an NDA were what was keeping their hope up. Of course, it doesn't mean every fanbase on other forums is, but it definitely had an impact of "nope, not happening" to quite a few people. And that's a big thread, so we're talking over 50.

So the difference isn't actually as clear as people think it is. Yes, one officially is a better way to say it under an NDA, but you need to look at how the fanbase thought of it. The fanbase, in both cases, took 'em as a hard no without a doubt(NDA aside). That's the general consensus. Just cause it's not accurate doesn't mean people are convinced Kirk was saying anything but "no".

 

[Icewolff92]

Honestly? I don't think Kirkhope danced around it at all. At least not to the fans. They don't work in NDA's, so don't know what's accept and what's not. It was a clear no for a ton of people. The fanbase's sole hope was an NDA factor.

Ehm, Krikhope straight up danced around it. He never said yes or no. This director said straight up "we have approached them, but nothing serious happened". That's a big difference.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ehm, Krikhope straight up danced around it. He never said yes or no. This director said straight up "we have approached them, but nothing serious happened". That's a big difference.

"Don't count on it" is a negative thing to people and they took it as a hard no.

See my edit. Sorry, it doesn't matter what's "officially danced around it" or not. They're the same equivalent thing to users. He was pretty much saying no to your average fan. The difference isn't really there no matter how official it seems. Because that's not how people view it as.

Tons of people know jack-all about NDA's as is. All they know is you have to deny it. Most people have no clue whatsoever what is acceptable or what is not. The average fan is those who will think anything short of yes is a no. That's the reason the NDA arguments come out. Kirkhope was absolutely saying a no, but it was an acceptable way of saying it so the companies treat it as dancing around the issue. The fanbase did not see it that way. And there's the problem. What matters is how the fans see it as well. So yeah, Banjo was hard disconfirmed for tons of people.

I'm not saying that Kirk's is a complete equivalent. They clearly aren't. I'm talking about how speculation takes it. There's not going to be a person to point out the incorrect usage of how "dancing around it works" on every thread. So it's better to just stick with what they believed. Just cause it's wrong doesn't mean the fact they saw Banjo is disconfirmed is irrelevant. It's clear that they view it as an NDA factor.

For the record, I don't think we have an NDA situation on our hands either. But whether you dance around it or say no, nothing changes. You can directly say no under an NDA just as much as you can dance around it. You just can't say yes.

 

[Icewolff92]

"Don't count on it" is a negative thing to people and they took it as a hard no.

See my edit. Sorry, it doesn't matter what's "officially danced around it" or not. They're the same equivalent thing to users. He was pretty much saying no to your average fan. The difference isn't really there no matter how official it seems. Because that's not how people view it as.

Tons of people know jack-all about NDA's as is. All they know is you have to deny it. Most people have no clue whatsoever what is acceptable or what is not. The average fan is those who will think anything short of yes is a no. That's the reason the NDA arguments come out. Kirkhope was absolutely saying a no, but it was an acceptable way of saying it so the companies treat it as dancing around the issue. The fanbase did not see it that way. And there's the problem. What matters is how the fans see it as well. So yeah, Banjo was hard disconfirmed for tons of people.

And here¨s the thing. I know about NDAs. I have been under several NDAs in my life, and I can tell you right now, the way Kirkhope handled it and the Bethesda director handled it is way different. Where they truly in talks, that director would not go so "in-depth" about it all. Just because the fanbase can only see through tunnel vision doesn¨t mean that A=B. Also, guess what.. and guess what.

DMC producer straight up de-confirming Dante -> Dante were never part of the pack
Minecraft producer pushing for a Minecraft character -> Steve was never part of the pack
Masuda said Travis ain¨t part of the pack -> Never happened.

The SNK that danced around the question -> Terry in Smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And here¨s the thing. I know about NDAs. I have been under several NDAs in my life, and I can tell you right now, the way Kirkhope handled it and the Bethesda director handled it is way different. Where they truly in talks, that director would not go so "in-depth" about it all. Just because the fanbase can only see through tunnel vision doesn¨t mean that A=B.

Please stop missing the point.

The fanbases will always see them as the same, and that's not a bad thing. In the end, an NDA only forces you to not say yes. That's literally it. So it doesn't matter if they dance around it or not. Those aren't relevant.

...Unless you literally cannot say no but must dance around, but from what I understand, NDA's aren't all the same?

Anyway, I made some edits to show why it doesn't matter what counts as official or not of what you can do. As long as one can say a hard no and still be lying under NDA, that's all that matters. But if you can't say an outright no, please let me know.

...You know that Aubrey isn't a producer right? Or did you mean someone else? She's a Community Manager and knew nothing anyway to begin with.

DMC Producer wouldn't matter. Nor did he say that. He said "I don't think he should be in Smash Bros. unless he had a Nintendo appearance first." That meant nothing as is. That's his opinion not a hard disconfirmation. Only Masuda is a clear example among those. Minecraft maybe too unless you're referring to Aubrey.

 

[Icewolff92]

Please stop missing the point.

The fanbases will always see them as the same, and that's not a bad thing. In the end, an NDA only forces you to not say yes. That's literally it. So it doesn't matter if they dance around it or not. Those aren't relevant.

...Unless you literally cannot say no but must dance around, but from what I understand, NDA's aren't all the same?

Anyway, I made some edits to show why it doesn't matter what counts as official or not of what you can do. As long as one can say a hard no and still be lying under NDA, that's all that matters. But if you can't say an outright no, please let me know.

First of all, as I said. Your argument about "just because the fans see it the same way" means jack s#¤¤ when you write a contract for NDA.
Second of all, check my edit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

First of all, as I said. Your argument about "just because the fans see it the same way" means jack s#¤¤ when you write a contract for NDA.
Second of all, check my edit.

Check my edit too. I'll re-edit this later when you respond to them. You had some poor examples of things that don't remotely count at all.

 

[Firox]

Please stop missing the point.

The fanbases will always see them as the same, and that's not a bad thing. In the end, an NDA only forces you to not say yes. That's literally it. So it doesn't matter if they dance around it or not. Those aren't relevant.

...Unless you literally cannot say no but must dance around, but from what I understand, NDA's aren't all the same?

Anyway, I made some edits to show why it doesn't matter what counts as official or not of what you can do. As long as one can say a hard no and still be lying under NDA, that's all that matters. But if you can't say an outright no, please let me know.

I think the main takeaway from what Icewolf is saying is that those that dance around the question are a far more positive sign than those that outright deny it. The precedent so far has been: Denial = Not happening (at least any time in the foreseeable future). Ambiguous answer = Good chance of happening.

That said, can somebody find a good SE representative and pop the question about Geno?!

 

[Icewolff92]

Check my edit too. I'll re-edit this later. You had some poor examples of things that don't remotely count at all.

I have already done so. Your entire point is that it doesn¨t really matter because fandom takes it the same, and I can tell you right now, NDAs are written in a very specific way. About the DMC producer, I¨m talking about the same guy that announced the dates that made everyone believe it was Dante for some reason. But yes, I was talking about her, and I give you that one.

That said, can somebody find a good SE representative and pop the question about Geno?!

Exactly. Had they sticked to the "asked the Smash Bros producers", that had been a totally different type of answer.

Anyhow. What about the idea of Sepiroth and Geno being in the same trailer? I need the one-winged angel theme in Smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have already done so. Your entire point is that it doesn¨t really matter because fandom takes it the same, and I can tell you right now, NDAs are written in a very specific way. About the DMC producer, I¨m talking about the same guy that announced the dates that made everyone believe it was Dante for some reason. But yes, I was talking about her, and I give you that one.

I'd say that doesn't count either cause they weren't being asked about it, so eh. There's no NDA about Smash to break. In fact, were they breaking an NDA to begin with?

Like I said, I agree they're different situations, but you shouldn't expect the fanbase to take them differently either. It only has to suggest it's not a yes at this point.

-----------------

Yes to One-Winged Angel. Hell, I'd take a Sephiroth Mii for that at this point. I'd prefer Geno as a fighter, but if a costume, please come with Beware The Forest Mushrooms.

 

[JarBear]

Anyhow. What about the idea of Sepiroth and Geno being in the same trailer? I need the one-winged angel theme in Smash

No way Sakurai is going to add any more anime swordsman