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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior
- Thread starter PsychoIncarnate
- Start date
- Status
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Literally the only redeeming unique thing that was added in Paper Jam that I would actually want to return in future entries was the run button. That should be a part of every Mario RPG, from the very start, unfortunately most of them either don't have it at all or require a special party member to do so.
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Kremling Kommander
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
- Messages
- 360
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
That might explain why it's taking him so goddamm long to come back
ForsakenM
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2018
- Messages
- 1,984
Thanks. I have more thoughts but they are mostly about changes to make the game stronger.
Regardless of what happens all the iconic original characters NEED to return. Croco, Booster, Mallow, Geno, Frogfucius, Moleville characters, Jinx, non-violent monsters, even characters who kinda offer nothing like Boshi and certain enemies like Belome and Johnathon Jones. Keep the same world as before with the same characters and maybe expand on it an introduce new ones. They don't all have to have major moments or anything, but something like seeing Booster again and maybe he's shaven and seems a bit more intelligent now that Valentina is in his life. Maybe Valentina isn't as mean to him and they actually learned to love one another! Maybe that frog who graduated from Frogfucius's school is now the leader of the tadpoles and Frogfucius has turned up missing and they beg you to find him, though seemingly that frog knows more than he lets on. Maybe Jagger has his own dojo now and Jinx is rumored to be traveling the world and spreading the wisdom and knowledge of the Mario Style Dojo. Maybe Moleville has changed and is now a place to go for entertainment like an amusement park due to the success of the minecart ride but it seems someone from outside Moleville took over with this park and the residents of Moleville aren't happy with the change.
There is so much more that can be done with just the lore the game has already been established!
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AdamBel731
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2019
- Messages
- 756
Interesting recommendation. That is quite a different take than other people have taken, but seeing both sides is important so I thank you for the response.
(Though I will have to ask if maybe you're being a little harsh on RPG? I mean you only recommend RPG if people play those others one? That seems a little disingenuous to what I've been hearing RPG gets right. Again, I haven't played it so I may agree with you later on.)
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
Hold up, what happened to him?
Rohanx17
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2019
- Messages
- 1,088
yeah he's been mia since christmas did something happen?
D
Deleted member
Guest
I'm basically more than half a day late on this but I want to throw my two cents into the ring because I love the game.
First off, the setting. It's very odd for a Mario title, not just at the time, but even continuing into the modern day, and it's odd because it feels a little more realistic. There's something "high fantasy" about the world, rather than Mario's typical colorful, whacky, somewhat surreal world.
Next up, and obviously the reason we're here, is the characters/story. The writing isn't "incredible", but it's a well thought out adventure and has some great moments. For a world populated by several dozen Toads that all look almost exactly the same, few characters, even the nameless NPCs, feel like they're there just to point you in the right direction or tell you something "useful" - most of them are just living their lives and want to tell you about it. The playable characters obviously get the most focus, and each of them has their reasons for being permanent members of the journey. Obviously, at the time it was unheard of for Bowser to be working with Mario, and the personality they gave him was not only brilliant, but has really stuck with him. I think the weakest part of the character writing is honestly the fact that Mario remains mute, but there's almost limitless charm to how he pantomimes his way through the world and people just accept that not only does he not say a word, but he can transform into almost anything else.
I think that's worth sort of touching on the comedy of the game. I know comedy's totally subjective, but there's some moments in Mario RPG that are total knee slappers, at least to me. It's the sort of thing you'll have to experience and be in the moment for and make your mind up there.
The next point is one that I totally didn't even realize when I first played the game because it was my first RPG, and it's a point that only sort of holds up in the face of modern RPGs - battling, and getting into battles is extremely unique for the time. Enemies being visible in the overworld, giving the player the choice of avoiding battles if they're skillful enough, in a turn based RPG was massive. I think only Earthbound did the same for the time. Of course, no level of pacifism is going to save you against the bosses, so the "decision" to not fight the regular enemies is kind of fake, but the game doesn't require as much grinding as many JRPGs of the time and even now.
Overall, the game isn't actually very difficult. You can make it farther on less effort than even in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, owed mostly to how important weapons and armors are and how overpowered certain equip/character combinations can be (giving Peach the lazy shell armor, for instance, is a recipe for an invincible healer). Stats feel like they take a very far back seat, likely thanks to how timed hits give such a dramatic increase in damage, how much luck plays into giving you a second attack in a turn, or a powerful multi-hit item doesn't get used when you use it. It's very doable to run through it at low levels, which is probably the reason I was able to finish it when I was 7 years old, but likewise, the combat is so fun and so much more interactive than the average JRPG of the time (and even some now), the grind doesn't feel like a grind.
It's a memorable experience all around, and the flaws that I could list aren't even really flaws, just minor nitpicks.
I'm going to have to disagree with the last part of this point. Under Geno's direction, the story does become more driven by finding the star pieces, but aside from the total freebie given at Star Hill, the rest of the game is still about solving problems. Even as soon as Seaside Town, there's obviously something wrong and if you investigate you know it, but in good fashion for a game narrative, they don't make it super obvious that something is wrong - it's enough to fool a smaller child into thinking they're just weird Toads. In terms of "solving problems", you free the citizens of Seaside Town and expose a conspiracy in Nimbus Land... and then the game's pretty much over.
Those nitpicks from earlier? They are that I think the magic pool should not be shared, that Mario should be able to be swapped out of the party, and that more should have been done to make the characters unique - Mario, Bowser, and Geno all feel extremely similar in terms of battle ability and likewise, Peach is just a complete upgrade to Mallow who trades off his subpar magical attacks for nearly game breaking heals. By the end of the game you're guaranteed to be using Mario and Peach unless you just want to make things difficult for yourself, and Bowser and Geno are completely interchangeable. I think that Bowser being like the game's monk, with no "magic" abilities in exchange for a bit more physical attack would be ideal, especially if there were parts of the game where enemies were very heavy on using silence. Just something to give a niche to every character would go miles.
The artwork, as Forsaken mentioned earlier, has aged relatively well considering that these are 3D models converted to sprites. I think the game looks better than Donkey Kong Country by a mile, but obviously for a remake I would want to see the graphics stepped up to either be on Smash's level or stylized in some unique way. A lot of people lean to Link's Awakening, but I have mixed feelings about that.
OffBi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2019
- Messages
- 877
i don't know either and it's worrying me
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
We have to do something
Pd:geno is cool
MisterMike
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 2,252
He's probably just busy with ther stuff. I wouldn't worry.
StarLight42
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2014
- Messages
- 1,683
WaniiZ also disappeared
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
Hey, nice to see you again
(i think WaniiZ left because of the trolls)
Geno Boost
Smash Master
Hopefully this year will be the year where I will finally show off publicly the papa Geno’s pizzeria that I am working on since the beginning of 2019, now I have more free time this year
BoyMan
the flag you made is there and animated!
The people who had seen it were very excited to see how far can I go with it and I am trying to make it fun and unique
Btw Only 1 SMRPG fan have seen it so far and he was also a long time fan of my work
BoyMan
the flag you made is there and animated!The people who had seen it were very excited to see how far can I go with it and I am trying to make it fun and unique
Btw Only 1 SMRPG fan have seen it so far and he was also a long time fan of my work
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Franco Geno
Smash Lord
That sounds amazing, good job!Hopefully this year will be the year where I will finally show off publicly the papa Geno’s pizzeria that I am working on since the beginning of 2019, now I have more free time this year
The people who had seen it were very excited to see how far can I go with it and I am trying to make it fun and unique
Btw Only 1 SMRPG fan have seen it so far and he was also a long time fan of my work
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
SMRPG continuity questions:
Is Booster Wario?
Is Booster Wario?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Since Miyamoto seemed to be strict with the Mario cast, is it possible Miyamoto could be the reason why Geno is not in Smash yet? Even though Sakurai has more power towards than him.
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EarlTamm
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 7,348
I doubt Miyamoto would have any say in that.
Spatulo
Smash Lord
According to those pictures in his tower I think Wario might be Booster the 3rd (if I remember right)
Axelocke
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2018
- Messages
- 239
The thing I loved about the Mario RPG games is that they all have such an amazing art style that derives from the standard depiction of the Mario characters. They feel like re-inventions of the characters, and I would absolutely love to see more Mario RPG games in the future.
Just an example of what I mean:
Just an example of what I mean:
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ForsakenM
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2018
- Messages
- 1,984
So here is were I disagree with that very slightly.
Yes, you save Seaside, but it's not until you grab that Star Piece that you end up saving Seaside. Unlike with Mack, Bowyer, and Puchinello where saving people or problem solving was the main goal and finding a Star Piece kinda just fell into place with it, but once you save Toadstool (which by the way, the ENTIRE GAME breaks way from the story it has setup to focus ENTIRELY on Toadstool and I think the game suffers for it since the story beats after that are VERY weak.) it's mostly about 'Find dat Star Piece' first and solving problems comes second...until Nimbus Land, which is one of my favorite areas and is something that should have been done for more characters.
Free Star Piece at Star Hill without hitting heavy with the wishes or any character conflict or boss battle, Johnny's character is pretty much wasted when it's clear the wanted more from him with how he was being setup and instead of going to Seaside to save them you are just trying to beeline for the Ship and saving Seaside is an afterthought that just kinda happens all at once after beating Johnny. Monstro Town is cute but is nothing more than a diversion filled with secrets and has no story beats. Nimbus Land has nothing to do with Star Pieces but is a fantastic story beat for Mallow. Barrel Volcano balances out fine with Mallow's story beat but then the Axem Rangers (much like Punchinello and Yardovich) are introduced and beaten in a flash with little time for what evil they have done to hold any weight or impact.
Right after that you go face Smithy and other than how annoying the Six Doors of Bullcrap are, they lead-up to Smithy tries to make payoff moments with all the characters but Toadstool has had little to no character moments since she joined the party officially, Mallow's story is essentially done and Geno isn't fleshed out enough to have it make sense that not only is he leaving once his mission is done but they don't give you much to go on Geno so if you haven't bonded with him on what little he has you will feel nothing for the big pay-off after beating Smithy.
Also Smithy is weak as an ultimate evil, and it's mainly because you don't feel his personal impact, but he doesn't fail because he heads all the destruction the other weapon bois make (much like Yu Yevon really has nothing shown about him until he's a final boss in his weird parasite form, but due to the fact that he is what pilots Sin and Sin has caused so much destruction and loss he gets a pass).
The story isn't the weakest part of SMRPG, but it definitely shows it's age with how deep J/RPGs go now.
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MisterMike
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 2,252
Called it!
Wazygoose
Smash Journeyman
A lot of people have been talking about the unique art style of SMRPG, which hasn't really been recaptured since (by Nintendo at least). At some point it was mentioned by some that a rerelease of the game or remaster shouldn't change the art style, and I've got a different opinion.
There's 4 different ways a game can be "redone", and I'm going to use mostly SNES references and Final Fantasy games as examples since they've been redone a ton:
1. Re-release/port:
Exact same game, different platform. Example is Super Metriod on the Switch's Super Nintendo classics thing.
2. Re-release/port with some changes:
Exact same game with minor changes like a different menu UI, minor bugs fixes, etc. Example is when they re-released Chrono Trigger on Steam, some of the UI changed and I think music quality slightly changed (while songs themselves not changing). Another example is having better translations into different languages, like FFTactics.
3. Remaster:
Basically the same story and gameplay, but huge updates to graphics, music, and quality-of-life changes. Example is FFX, where the remaster had higher-def graphics, orchestral versions of the music, the ability to turn off random encounters, and the ability to speed up the game. Another example is Secret of Mana, where they completely redid the graphics style. But for both of these, the story and gameplay didn't deviate or change from the originals.
4. Remake:
This is where there is a lot of creative freedom for developers. The fundamental components of the story, characters, setting, and game genre are close enough to the original that it recaptures the essence of the original. But the graphics, style, gameplay, remastered and new/remixed music, dialogue, translations, and story elements can change. I think a really good example of this is the soon-to-be-released FF7 Remake. FF7 has been all of ported, re-released with changes, and soon remade. The remake has the same characters and basic story, but the world itself has been expanded, more subplots and characters added, graphics completely redone, music orchestrated and remixed, gameplay itself completely different, and probably way more that isn't yet known.
Thinking now about SMRPG, I think the real question that should be asked is, which of these options(s) should be done, if any? This is where we all disagree. It's probably going to be re-released to the Switch's Super Nintendo thing without changes, so option 1 is taken care of. But do people want more than a few minor changes, i.e. a remaster? Higher-res sprites, music remixes, additional dialogue, more side quests, an easier time doing 100 super jumps, bigger inventory size, more sound effects from the characters themselves? Geno and Mallow if I recall didn't hardly have any noises they made unique to them to simulate their voices, and the bosses didn't either.
This kind of remastering would be really nice to have. It would be really cool to expand the world a bit, add some more in-game lore to the world and where Smithy and Geno came from, add more sounds effects, give a greater variety of expressive animations across the board, higher-res sprite (HD exists now), all that stuff. Replaying it on a portable console is fun, but it would be cool to have more. Some people don't like not being faithful enough to the original, but that line is different for everyone, and I've always thought that if you like the original, it still exists and you can just go back play it--a remaster doesn't affect the original game.
Beyond that, I think a remake would be bomb. Turning it into PaperSMRPG or even Super Mario 3D World/Raving Rabbits style would be really cool, adding some boss cutscenes, the sky's the limit. This kind of thing really isn't Nintendo's MO though, they don't really remake anything, they release new iterations or sequels. So a sequel that has these components would be really cool.
So that's my opinion on all this. Re-release is coming and they probably won't change it, remaster or remake would be awesome but unlikely, and sequel is pie in the sky but I would love to see all the changes I mentioned in the remaster and remake. Obviously Geno returning as a central character is a mandate, but a decent-sized returning cast would be fun.
What does everyone think, in terms of which kind of redo they would prefer? I'm all in for massive upgrades and expansions, but I know not everyone is like that.
There's 4 different ways a game can be "redone", and I'm going to use mostly SNES references and Final Fantasy games as examples since they've been redone a ton:
1. Re-release/port:
Exact same game, different platform. Example is Super Metriod on the Switch's Super Nintendo classics thing.
2. Re-release/port with some changes:
Exact same game with minor changes like a different menu UI, minor bugs fixes, etc. Example is when they re-released Chrono Trigger on Steam, some of the UI changed and I think music quality slightly changed (while songs themselves not changing). Another example is having better translations into different languages, like FFTactics.
3. Remaster:
Basically the same story and gameplay, but huge updates to graphics, music, and quality-of-life changes. Example is FFX, where the remaster had higher-def graphics, orchestral versions of the music, the ability to turn off random encounters, and the ability to speed up the game. Another example is Secret of Mana, where they completely redid the graphics style. But for both of these, the story and gameplay didn't deviate or change from the originals.
4. Remake:
This is where there is a lot of creative freedom for developers. The fundamental components of the story, characters, setting, and game genre are close enough to the original that it recaptures the essence of the original. But the graphics, style, gameplay, remastered and new/remixed music, dialogue, translations, and story elements can change. I think a really good example of this is the soon-to-be-released FF7 Remake. FF7 has been all of ported, re-released with changes, and soon remade. The remake has the same characters and basic story, but the world itself has been expanded, more subplots and characters added, graphics completely redone, music orchestrated and remixed, gameplay itself completely different, and probably way more that isn't yet known.
Thinking now about SMRPG, I think the real question that should be asked is, which of these options(s) should be done, if any? This is where we all disagree. It's probably going to be re-released to the Switch's Super Nintendo thing without changes, so option 1 is taken care of. But do people want more than a few minor changes, i.e. a remaster? Higher-res sprites, music remixes, additional dialogue, more side quests, an easier time doing 100 super jumps, bigger inventory size, more sound effects from the characters themselves? Geno and Mallow if I recall didn't hardly have any noises they made unique to them to simulate their voices, and the bosses didn't either.
This kind of remastering would be really nice to have. It would be really cool to expand the world a bit, add some more in-game lore to the world and where Smithy and Geno came from, add more sounds effects, give a greater variety of expressive animations across the board, higher-res sprite (HD exists now), all that stuff. Replaying it on a portable console is fun, but it would be cool to have more. Some people don't like not being faithful enough to the original, but that line is different for everyone, and I've always thought that if you like the original, it still exists and you can just go back play it--a remaster doesn't affect the original game.
Beyond that, I think a remake would be bomb. Turning it into PaperSMRPG or even Super Mario 3D World/Raving Rabbits style would be really cool, adding some boss cutscenes, the sky's the limit. This kind of thing really isn't Nintendo's MO though, they don't really remake anything, they release new iterations or sequels. So a sequel that has these components would be really cool.
So that's my opinion on all this. Re-release is coming and they probably won't change it, remaster or remake would be awesome but unlikely, and sequel is pie in the sky but I would love to see all the changes I mentioned in the remaster and remake. Obviously Geno returning as a central character is a mandate, but a decent-sized returning cast would be fun.
What does everyone think, in terms of which kind of redo they would prefer? I'm all in for massive upgrades and expansions, but I know not everyone is like that.
EarlTamm
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 7,348
If I were to play a modern equivalent to SMRPG, I would want more in-depth changes that would add to the experience. Like you said, the original is more than likely going to be available for Switch online, so a full on modernization being a bit more different makes sense. I would want the original spirit kept of course, but I see no harm in there being new additions and ideas tried out.
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
Thank the higher authority!
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Well, my ban ended and I just wanted to check in again to let you all know that I'm not dead. Just two quick things:
1. The Geno Essay is almost done. 7 out of the 8 main sections are done along with the intro and conclusion. It's currently 10 pages and about 4,200 words. Probably about another page and it should be done.
2. Ran errands with my wife in St. Louis yesterday and had several more epiphanies during the two hour drives to and from. Basically I'm expanding my thoughts to predict characters 5-10, their announcements, their releases, and the general Mii costumes for 5-8. Of course, I'll be providing my full rationale for these thoughts too. Currently going back and forth between this and the Geno essay and should have both done by tomorrow night.
1. The Geno Essay is almost done. 7 out of the 8 main sections are done along with the intro and conclusion. It's currently 10 pages and about 4,200 words. Probably about another page and it should be done.
2. Ran errands with my wife in St. Louis yesterday and had several more epiphanies during the two hour drives to and from. Basically I'm expanding my thoughts to predict characters 5-10, their announcements, their releases, and the general Mii costumes for 5-8. Of course, I'll be providing my full rationale for these thoughts too. Currently going back and forth between this and the Geno essay and should have both done by tomorrow night.
Really? What were you banned for this time around, Fatmanonice?
How have you been otherwise?
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Franco Geno
Smash Lord
That's easy, the reason was:
DaxMasterix
Smash Lord
the messiah has returned.. .. I need a meme on this
Seriously, is there a better reason as to what happened to him here instead of silly memes?
DaxMasterix
Smash Lord
Sorry bud, The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club.
I think it was because of speculation unrelated to geno, either way, he's here now ;3
Is that true,
Fatmanonice
?Anyhow, I am so excited for the Direct that may happen next week. Who here is predicting Geno as a Smash reveal?
D
Deleted member
Guest
I not counting on Geno as number #5. Perhaps 6,7,8, or 9.Is that true,
Anyhow, I am so excited for the Direct that may happen next week. Who here is predicting Geno as a Smash reveal?
Franco Geno
Smash Lord
...Resurrection! (I fixed it)
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MisterMike
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 2,252
Wait, you were banned again? When the hell was this?
Man, that's great to hear! And to think, you were only around 5 pages in about a week ago...
OH NO.
DaxMasterix
Smash Lord
Godlike <3
EntropyAtrophy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2018
- Messages
- 324
I'm an admin in a group that has 22,000 people outside of this site.Is that true,
Anyhow, I am so excited for the Direct that may happen next week. Who here is predicting Geno as a Smash reveal?
The absolute worst thing you can do in an admin's eyes is ask questions like this as to why action was taken.
Let it go and move on. SHHHHHHH.
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