Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

 

[catsforlife1]

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

Hmmm that’s pretty interesting. Either way it’s fine for us tho. Even if mallowdemon leak is fake we still got the mii list. But still this whole situation is interesting. I’m gonna stick to my theory that if this leak does not get disproven by someone coming out and saying they made the leak it might be real.

 

[Tomasagaz14]

Is there any difference legally/financially from obtaining use of the intellectual property to use as a spirit and using it as a playable fighter?
Because if not, they already have Geno's rights due to acquiring him for the Spirit and would have to spend exactly $0.00 and go through no red tape to begin Geno's development.

That's untrue, as developing a character still would take valuable time and resources even if they got the rights, so saying that Geno costs literally nothing is incorrect.

 

[T2by4]

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

Imagine being that guy. Thinking you're in the clear and safe until months later waaay after the fact when ninteninjas break into your window one night.

 

[Firox]

Imagine being that guy. Thinking you're in the clear and safe until months later waaay after the fact when ninteninjas break into your window one night.

It's some seriously scary stuff when you get a pink slip and a court order back to back. I've never been there myself, but I can't imagine they slept much after that. Worst of all, try explaining to people how you got in that mess.

"Holy cow! Your fired, bankrupt from legal penalties and blacklisted in the gaming industry?! What the hell did you do?!"

"I...uh...leaked a Smash bros character..."

"Why?! Why would you throw your life away like that?!"

"I....I wanted to make people on the internet get excited....for like....a week...."

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

That's untrue, as developing a character still would take valuable time and resources even if they got the rights, so saying that Geno costs literally nothing is incorrect.

I am not stupid and understand developing a character requires time and money. I didn't say it wouldn't cost money to develop Geno, I theorized it would cost $0.00 to start because they have the rights to him already.

What I was doing was asking for confirmation from someone who knows more than I on intellectual property law if Nintendo would have different rules to purchase rights to use a third party intellectual property as a spirit than as a playable character? And if not, then Geno has fewer hurdles to play-ability than others because they had already spent the money to acquire his rights in the base game.

If you're going to twist my words that poorly I'd rather you just set me to ignore, like I've done for you.

 

[SSGuy]

That's untrue, as developing a character still would take valuable time and resources even if they got the rights, so saying that Geno costs literally nothing is incorrect.

I think they mean implying cost of the rights and licensing of Geno has been cleared. Obviously people are going to be paid to model and create a fighter....

 

[MisterMike]

Good points. I do know about that video and I do know that particular mod is from the slime hat, which has the jiggle feature the Mallow hat seems to have. The thing is, that hat looks very different from the leak's hat and the cacodemon's hat in your image so far hasn't been shown in-game, has it?

The Mallow Hat was made specifically to show that it's possible to mod in hats, it was never supposed to be passed off as real. And the Cacodemon Hat in that screenshow is indeed running in-game, it's the Mii Fighter menu where you're selecting their costume. It's not the same one as in the CacoMallow post, though.

And on that point, I want to say that in terms of the person leaking that footage, I think that was Nintendo themselves who did it, just like I feel that the SNK copyright slip-up was also on their hands to deter any actual leakers. Remember how big that ESRB leak was, and the guy in question who got deported I think back to his home country. This time, I don't think Nintendo wants to take any chances, so why not do the dirty deed yourself and then keep mum on it to not draw suspicion? This is why I'm very skeptical and outright distrusting of these insiders; Terry came to them unexpectedly and it shut down a lot of speculation on their end.

I think Terry being leaked was most likely an accident, but at the same time I wouldn't put it past them to have leaked him intentionally, mainly because of how I think he would've gone down had be been an absolute suprise. While Terry isn't completely unknown to westerners, he's not the most greatly demanded or high-profile characters either. I think it's possible that they foresaw him getting the same kind of reaction Piranha Plant got and wanted to mitigate this by "accidentally" leaking him, that way people would be able to reign in their expectations and not be super disappointed by him come September 4th.

This is still my biggest problem, my biggest source of not believing in Geno's chances 100%. You give us a Mii costume for a beloved character that you later claim to have wanted to put into the game since Brawl, show him off next to Cloud, the most wild pick imaginable... and then he comes back in the next game as a PNG while Ridley and K. Rool and even Isabelle are in the base roster. Then you mix this with how Sakurai's comments regarding getting Dragon Quest content makes SquareEnix look like they're not hard at all to work with, and there probably wouldn't have been an issue getting Geno in as a base roster character at all. And then put the cherry on top - there's a possibility this was all the DLC we were getting, and chances are extremely high that Geno is not fighter 5.

Someone over in the discord said that Sakurai probably doesn't want Geno except for the fans' sake and honestly I believe it. I'm fairly certain interview Sakurai was full of ****, he doesn't think Geno's cool and he probably never once attempted to put Geno in the game.

Not gonna lie, I absolutely hate it when people try use the "X still isn't in Smash, so Sakurai probably hates them!" argument, because it ignores so much of the context around a Smash game's development and makes it all about them and the one character they want. From what I know of Smash's development, they start out by making a project plan filled with all of the stuff they want to do for it and then begin work on the game from there. They rarely deviate from this project plan once they've started, and often times they never quite incorporate everything that they set out to include. For example, Chrom was originally supposed to be in Smash 4, but due to him not doing enough to differentiate him from Marth he was cut and Robin was chosen instead.

Now consider what they had to work with in building the project plan for Ultimate: the Smash Ballot has just wrapped up and all the votes were accounted for, and they were ready to make what would become Smash Ultimate, what do they do? Well, they'd look to that new info gathered from the Smash Ballot to decide upon what to do next, which is reflected well in what we got for Ultimate.

- Their decision to bring everyone back for Ultimate (EVERYONE IS HERE!) most certainly came from the large amount of votes for veteran characters such as Wolf and Snake in the Ballot. (I unfortunately can't find the exact quote at the moment...)
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...popular-bayonetta-super-smash-bros-4s-ballot/

- Ridley, King K. Rool, and the Belmonts were specifically mentioned to have been chosen based on the results of the Ballot.
https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1087124581867958273
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

- Chrom and Dark Samus were specifically chosen to cater to Eastern and Western fan demand, respectively. "Chrom from the Fire Emblem series and Dark Samus from the Metroid series are also joining the fray. I received many requests for both fighters from people in Japan and overseas, respectively."
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

- People tend to like Pokemon, and so a new Pokemon character was always in the plans. Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because of it's unique fighting style. "Sakurai wanted to pick a newcomer to represent content from a newer game. With Ultra Sun and Moon, a Pokemon 'slot' was left opened. Eventually after some consideration, they went with Incineroar. Sakurai says he wanted to try making a pro wrestler."
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1062726902341746691

- Piranha Plant was decided to break from the norm of "Main Protagonist or Main Antagonist" that tends to crop up a lot with Smash. "Piranha Plant was decided because it's a character that isn't a hero. Sakurai and the team felt if all the characters were heros it'd be a bit boring. Also, the Piranha Plant is well known."
https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1087127235155218432

- Inkling, Isabelle, and Ken were also very popular characters in general, so seeing them get in Smash isn't exactly rocket science.

I could go on but you get the point. The project plan for Ultimate was a massive undertaking, with all sorts of things that were decided upon for all sorts of differing reasons. Just because Geno didn't make it in the base game or may not make it in to the Fighters Pass doesn't mean that Sakurai has anything against the character personally or that he'll never make it in. And if that's the case, then boy howdy does Sakurai hate a lot of the video game industry, doesn't he? I mean, he put a Piranha Plant in Smash before Crash Bandicoot? Why does he hate Crash so much? Is it because CTR:NF is also doing the "EVERYONE IS HERE!" thing with regards to their own roster of characters and he sees that as a dig against Smash?

TL;DR Saying that Sakurai hates a character because they aren't in Smash yet is a lazy argument people pull out of their asses to justify not getting too invested in said character getting in, because if you aren't too invested it'll hurt less if they happen to not make it in.

If we're talking victory themes, I'd go for the battle won jingle, or for me, a leitmotif of the drumroll before the basic battle music plays following the victory jingle.

And as we've seen with Cloud and Joker, it's entirely possible for them to have it loop endlessly, which this song is just made for.

This is very possible. Also, aren't Chrom and some other newly added characters in the same boat?

Chrom is both an Echo Fighter and part of Robin's Final Smash, and Rathalos is both a Boss and an Assist Trophy.

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

Hmm, interesting.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

Interesting fact. Could it be that the original Ken leaker is the same guy who posted Cacomallow photo and videos? Same Ken, same taunt. iirc the leak surfaced on /v/ just three or two days before the direct.

 

[Griselda]

I am not stupid and understand developing a character requires time and money. I didn't say it wouldn't cost money to develop Geno, I theorized it would cost $0.00 to start because they have the rights to him already.

What I was doing was asking for confirmation from someone who knows more than I on intellectual property law if Nintendo would have different rules to purchase rights to use a third party intellectual property as a spirit than as a playable character? And if not, then Geno has fewer hurdles to play-ability than others because they had already spent the money to acquire his rights in the base game.

Getting the rights to Geno as a spirit almost certainly doesn't extend to using him for anything else, unless the agreement specifically covered it. For instance, they got the rights to Cloud as a playable character, so if they then made him a boss there would probably be trouble. If Geno is in the game as a fighter, it's because they agreed to it specifically in addition to him being a spirit, rather than the agreement for him being a spirit giving them free reign to do whatever else they wanted with him.

 

[Firox]

Getting the rights to Geno as a spirit almost certainly doesn't extend to using him for anything else, unless the agreement specifically covered it. For instance, they got the rights to Cloud as a playable character, so if they then made him a boss there would probably be trouble. If Geno is in the game as a fighter, it's because they agreed to it specifically in addition to him being a spirit, rather than the agreement for him being a spirit giving them free reign to do whatever else they wanted with him.

Good to know. Still, I can't imagine that the rights for Geno to be a fighter would be all that hard to get at this point. Unless Sakurai or SE objects, I see no reason why they couldn't give him an upgrade.

 

[Griselda]

Good to know. Still, I can't imagine that the rights for Geno to be a fighter would be all that hard to get at this point. Unless Sakurai or SE objects, I see no reason why they couldn't give him an upgrade.

I'd love to know how this stuff actually works behind the scenes. Did Sakurai personally go on foot to discuss Cloud, and then went 'Oh, also, I want to make a costume of that doll people keep asking me about'?

 

[SSGuy]

Getting the rights to Geno as a spirit almost certainly doesn't extend to using him for anything else, unless the agreement specifically covered it. For instance, they got the rights to Cloud as a playable character, so if they then made him a boss there would probably be trouble. If Geno is in the game as a fighter, it's because they agreed to it specifically in addition to him being a spirit, rather than the agreement for him being a spirit giving them free reign to do whatever else they wanted with him.

That is a good point. I am still under the impression that I don't think he is happening until it actually happens.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

Getting the rights to Geno as a spirit almost certainly doesn't extend to using him for anything else, unless the agreement specifically covered it. For instance, they got the rights to Cloud as a playable character, so if they then made him a boss there would probably be trouble. If Geno is in the game as a fighter, it's because they agreed to it specifically in addition to him being a spirit, rather than the agreement for him being a spirit giving them free reign to do whatever else they wanted with him.

I suppose your inference makes sense, but from a financial perspective I don't see why one would have to pay to secure the rights to display an IP as a spirit and then pay again to secure the same rights to the same IP to develop a character that moves around. I could see going back to Square Enix for permission to do the upgrade, but I can't see them having to buy the rights a second time unless there's something specific about copyright law I don't understand. I am not an authority on the issue by any means, so I very well could be wrong. Just seems kind of odd that in order to make Geno playable they'd have to buy him twice.

 

[Griselda]

I suppose your inference makes sense, but from a financial perspective I don't see why one would have to pay to secure the rights to display an IP as a spirit and then pay again to secure the same rights to the same IP to develop a character that moves around. I could see going back to Square Enix for permission to do the upgrade, but I can't see them having to buy the rights a second time unless there's something specific about copyright law I don't understand. I am not an authority on the issue by any means, so I very well could be wrong. Just seems kind of odd that in order to make Geno playable they'd have to buy him twice.

Yeah, I was mostly meaning that they couldn't just do whatever they wanted after they paid for him as a spirit. Though they could very well have to buy him twice if they went back to ask for permission to upgrade him and Square Enix asked for more money for his larger representation.

 

[Axelocke]

I just want to spam "GENO!" in the announcer's voice the day he comes out.

 

[RingJ5]

I suppose your inference makes sense, but from a financial perspective I don't see why one would have to pay to secure the rights to display an IP as a spirit and then pay again to secure the same rights to the same IP to develop a character that moves around. I could see going back to Square Enix for permission to do the upgrade, but I can't see them having to buy the rights a second time unless there's something specific about copyright law I don't understand. I am not an authority on the issue by any means, so I very well could be wrong. Just seems kind of odd that in order to make Geno playable they'd have to buy him twice.

They wouldn’t have to for base game, but they absolutely would when making a separate paid add-on. Lots of extra legal stuff has to go on in that case.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I suppose your inference makes sense, but from a financial perspective I don't see why one would have to pay to secure the rights to display an IP as a spirit and then pay again to secure the same rights to the same IP to develop a character that moves around. I could see going back to Square Enix for permission to do the upgrade, but I can't see them having to buy the rights a second time unless there's something specific about copyright law I don't understand. I am not an authority on the issue by any means, so I very well could be wrong. Just seems kind of odd that in order to make Geno playable they'd have to buy him twice.

Think of it less as Sakurai acquiring the "rights" to use Geno for whatever purpose he chooses and more as him securing a license to use the character for one specific purpose. If Sakurai goes to SE and pays royalties to put Geno in as a Spirit and then decides to make him a fighter without making a new agreement with them, Square Enix could sue his ass. The idea that Sakurai just gets the rights to every character he puts in the game is a pretty major misconception in the Smash community, and one I'd like to correct, if possible.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

We know SE is willing to play ball with Sakurai, but have they said anything pertaining to Geno or old properties of the like?

 

[Deleted member]

I find the solution for the Geno licensing problem kinda easy:

Just assemble another reunion with Square Enix and try to get some expansion for the license so he can be a fighter without Sakurai getting sued.

Operation: Business Movement

 

[Qeomash]

Basically, I figure there's a large list of characters that Sakurai has very little personal attachment to but that he wants in Smash because he knows there are fans of that character. But it's always a trade off of which of those characters gets priority.

Geno is one of those characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Not gonna lie, I absolutely hate it when people try use the "X still isn't in Smash, so Sakurai probably hates them!" argument, because it ignores so much of the context around a Smash game's development and makes it all about them and the one character they want. From what I know of Smash's development, they start out by making a project plan filled with all of the stuff they want to do for it and then begin work on the game from there. They rarely deviate from this project plan once they've started, and often times they never quite incorporate everything that they set out to include. For example, Chrom was originally supposed to be in Smash 4, but due to him not doing enough to differentiate him from Marth he was cut and Robin was chosen instead.

Now consider what they had to work with in building the project plan for Ultimate: the Smash Ballot has just wrapped up and all the votes were accounted for, and they were ready to make what would become Smash Ultimate, what do they do? Well, they'd look to that new info gathered from the Smash Ballot to decide upon what to do next, which is reflected well in what we got for Ultimate.

- Their decision to bring everyone back for Ultimate (EVERYONE IS HERE!) most certainly came from the large amount of votes for veteran characters such as Wolf and Snake in the Ballot. (I unfortunately can't find the exact quote at the moment...)
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...popular-bayonetta-super-smash-bros-4s-ballot/

- Ridley, King K. Rool, and the Belmonts were specifically mentioned to have been chosen based on the results of the Ballot.
https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1087124581867958273
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

- Chrom and Dark Samus were specifically chosen to cater to Eastern and Western fan demand, respectively. "Chrom from the Fire Emblem series and Dark Samus from the Metroid series are also joining the fray. I received many requests for both fighters from people in Japan and overseas, respectively."
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

- People tend to like Pokemon, and so a new Pokemon character was always in the plans. Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because of it's unique fighting style. "Sakurai wanted to pick a newcomer to represent content from a newer game. With Ultra Sun and Moon, a Pokemon 'slot' was left opened. Eventually after some consideration, they went with Incineroar. Sakurai says he wanted to try making a pro wrestler."
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1062726902341746691

- Piranha Plant was decided to break from the norm of "Main Protagonist or Main Antagonist" that tends to crop up a lot with Smash. "Piranha Plant was decided because it's a character that isn't a hero. Sakurai and the team felt if all the characters were heros it'd be a bit boring. Also, the Piranha Plant is well known."
https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1087127235155218432

- Inkling, Isabelle, and Ken were also very popular characters in general, so seeing them get in Smash isn't exactly rocket science.

I could go on but you get the point. The project plan for Ultimate was a massive undertaking, with all sorts of things that were decided upon for all sorts of differing reasons. Just because Geno didn't make it in the base game or may not make it in to the Fighters Pass doesn't mean that Sakurai has anything against the character personally or that he'll never make it in. And if that's the case, then boy howdy does Sakurai hate a lot of the video game industry, doesn't he? I mean, he put a Piranha Plant in Smash before Crash Bandicoot? Why does he hate Crash so much? Is it because CTR:NF is also doing the "EVERYONE IS HERE!" thing with regards to their own roster of characters and he sees that as a dig against Smash?

TL;DR Saying that Sakurai hates a character because they aren't in Smash yet is a lazy argument people pull out of their asses to justify not getting too invested in said character getting in, because if you aren't too invested it'll hurt less if they happen to not make it in.

Let me start by saying for what feels like the third time now, sorry that in the Geno thread I loudly and adamantly support Geno while turning a blind eye to literally every other character. I do not have to acknowledge them as somehow more deserving than Geno, that's not being entitled, that's having loyalty and expectations. Is it selfish? Sure, but I'm not going to unrealistically sit around and act like every character in any video game ever has or even deserves a chance to be a playable character in Super Smash Bros, the most prestigious crossover video game ever made. Can the same argument be made against Geno? Certainly, and I hope people do, in threads that aren't dedicated to him.

Yes, every game starts with a project plan/design document if you're taking your endeavor seriously, and a company like Nintendo wouldn't allow a game to even start planning without one, and likely wouldn't even take the suggestion from a director without one. Honestly, to bring it up like that simply strengthens my argument.

Sakurai or someone under him drafts the project plan, looking something like this "It's Smash Bros but we're bringing everyone back this time, also let's aim to make these new modes and these new characters... And because it's such an undertaking to port models and make textures with better resolutions and not update the moveset of a good 3/4 of the roster at all, meaning we don't have to make much in the way of new animations, let's cut trophies and replace them with PNGs, that way we can fit boatloads of nods and references to virtually every game that's ever been on a Nintendo console without having to work at all." Perfect.

So while they were at this simplified project plan, somewhere towards the beginning Sakurai went over the ballot and picked out popular characters, that I won't deny. But nowhere in these scant newcomers did he find the need to put Geno in? Honestly, really think about it, it means one of two things:

1. He doesn't give a rat's ass about Geno. If Geno was in the top ranking Smash Ballot picks left over after veterans are removed from the mix and anime characters get put in the trash, Sakurai looked right over him and went for a competitor's character to put into the DLC plan. To top it off he willingly had someone negotiate the rights for the character to use a scan of the original model as an unimportant bonus mode halfass Trophy. Chances are higher than not that they paid money for that PNG. If that's not a kick in the nads I can't tell you one.

2. We're ****ing delusional to think that Geno is popular at all or even placed on the ballot as anything more than a blip on the radar.

The second doesn't really make sense if we take historical data into account along with fan polls that were probably run better than the actual Smash ballot. Geno did and still does top polls run for Smash inclusion. It's outright nonsense to think he didn't place on the Smash ballot itself.

I hate to echo Wynn or bring up hatred for Piranha Plant but really, if the project plan starts with looking over the ballot and picking out the top 10 (and that assumes that echo fighters should be considered full character inclusions), but then drawing an arbitrary line to put a random Mario enemy in sort of carries an implication that Sakurai really hated whoever 11 on that list is, and again that assumes that the top 10 names were everyone we got, including echo fighters (which as much as I like him, I'm fairly certain Richter Belmont was not there.) Considering we only got 5 truly new fighters, that stands to reason that the top 5 ballot winners, again, after veterans and Goku, didn't include Geno despite most fan polls putting him at 3 or 4. Am I really supposed to believe that? Something doesn't add up. And to be a little more open and inclusive to the struggles of other characters, you know who I do think beat Geno out for a top 5 spot, if they both weren't top 5? Waluigi. If Sakurai will add an outright clone of Villager and still pass them off as a brand new character and still cuck Waluigi with the snowglobe of death, it's pretty obvious that, if no one else, he at least despises Waluigi.

So no, I don't think it's a lazy argument to say that Sakurai hates any given character. A lot of research goes into making such a bold claim. Even if it was lazy, it isn't some catch all that I'm trying to use to keep myself from being attached to the idea of my character making it into Smash or to lessen the pain. The pain's already at max, bud, I've been waiting for Geno to make it into my favorite multiplayer game for half my life. How can I be any more upset/hurt/angry if he doesn't make it this time? To hell with it, I'll finally be able to move on with my life

 

[Deleted member]

The way I see it, everyone is honestly cool to want any character they want.

Even though there are characters I personally don’t want to give real money for due to personal reasons (such as an Activision/Blizzard rep), I still let other people who really want to buy those characters since it is their money and they choose how to spend it. Sadly the Smash fandom still needs to learn this lesson in many aspects, and people who happen to be fans of choices such as Geno, JRPG reps and some others tend to deal with all the shady parts of the Smash fandom in one way or another just for being characters other people dislike.

It is something I honestly find as a big problem, and the soon we get the Smash Fandom to get over it, the reputation may evolve for the better.

 

[Franco Geno]

Let me start by saying for what feels like the third time now, sorry that in the Geno thread I loudly and adamantly support Geno while turning a blind eye to literally every other character. I do not have to acknowledge them as somehow more deserving than Geno, that's not being entitled, that's having loyalty and expectations. Is it selfish? Sure, but I'm not going to unrealistically sit around and act like every character in any video game ever has or even deserves a chance to be a playable character in Super Smash Bros, the most prestigious crossover video game ever made. Can the same argument be made against Geno? Certainly, and I hope people do, in threads that aren't dedicated to him.

Yes, every game starts with a project plan/design document if you're taking your endeavor seriously, and a company like Nintendo wouldn't allow a game to even start planning without one, and likely wouldn't even take the suggestion from a director without one. Honestly, to bring it up like that simply strengthens my argument.

Sakurai or someone under him drafts the project plan, looking something like this "It's Smash Bros but we're bringing everyone back this time, also let's aim to make these new modes and these new characters... And because it's such an undertaking to port models and make textures with better resolutions and not update the moveset of a good 3/4 of the roster at all, meaning we don't have to make much in the way of new animations, let's cut trophies and replace them with PNGs, that way we can fit boatloads of nods and references to virtually every game that's ever been on a Nintendo console without having to work at all." Perfect.

So while they were at this simplified project plan, somewhere towards the beginning Sakurai went over the ballot and picked out popular characters, that I won't deny. But nowhere in these scant newcomers did he find the need to put Geno in? Honestly, really think about it, it means one of two things:

1. He doesn't give a rat's ass about Geno. If Geno was in the top ranking Smash Ballot picks left over after veterans are removed from the mix and anime characters get put in the trash, Sakurai looked right over him and went for a competitor's character to put into the DLC plan. To top it off he willingly had someone negotiate the rights for the character to use a scan of the original model as an unimportant bonus mode halfass Trophy. Chances are higher than not that they paid money for that PNG. If that's not a kick in the nads I can't tell you one.

2. We're ****ing delusional to think that Geno is popular at all or even placed on the ballot as anything more than a blip on the radar.

The second doesn't really make sense if we take historical data into account along with fan polls that were probably run better than the actual Smash ballot. Geno did and still does top polls run for Smash inclusion. It's outright nonsense to think he didn't place on the Smash ballot itself.

I hate to echo Wynn or bring up hatred for Piranha Plant but really, if the project plan starts with looking over the ballot and picking out the top 10 (and that assumes that echo fighters should be considered full character inclusions), but then drawing an arbitrary line to put a random Mario enemy in sort of carries an implication that Sakurai really hated whoever 11 on that list is, and again that assumes that the top 10 names were everyone we got, including echo fighters (which as much as I like him, I'm fairly certain Richter Belmont was not there.) Considering we only got 5 truly new fighters, that stands to reason that the top 5 ballot winners, again, after veterans and Goku, didn't include Geno despite most fan polls putting him at 3 or 4. Am I really supposed to believe that? Something doesn't add up. And to be a little more open and inclusive to the struggles of other characters, you know who I do think beat Geno out for a top 5 spot, if they both weren't top 5? Waluigi. If Sakurai will add an outright clone of Villager and still pass them off as a brand new character and still cuck Waluigi with the snowglobe of death, it's pretty obvious that, if no one else, he at least despises Waluigi.

So no, I don't think it's a lazy argument to say that Sakurai hates any given character. A lot of research goes into making such a bold claim. Even if it was lazy, it isn't some catch all that I'm trying to use to keep myself from being attached to the idea of my character making it into Smash or to lessen the pain. The pain's already at max, bud, I've been waiting for Geno to make it into my favorite multiplayer game for half my life. How can I be any more upset/hurt/angry if he doesn't make it this time? To hell with it, I'll finally be able to move on with my life

Man i can understand the pain that some Genobros like you feel who have waited all these years to finally see our puppet boy finally join the Smash roster but remember that both King K Rool and Ridley were two of the most requested fighters on the Smash Ballot alongside Geno and it still took them almost 10 years to join the fight (even if we all agree that they should´ve been playable way back in Brawl, here we are with both of them in the roster). so i don´t see how Sakurai not making Geno playable in the past means that he dislikes the character or that he wants nothing to do with it. we should just wait and see how things turn out and if he makes it then we will all celebrate together

 

[Ray102396]

Interesting fact. Could it be that the original Ken leaker is the same guy who posted Cacomallow photo and videos? Same Ken, same taunt. iirc the leak surfaced on /v/ just three or two days before the direct.

I'm, uh, pretty sure that's impossible. Why would a guy that got fired/got legal action/ whatever still be able to get new info/footage a year after? Sure, guy could have a friend that still worked there, but I highly doubt they'd leak anything knowing what happened to the first guy.

 

[domriver]

So This is technically the last week for any kind of announcement/direct for any game? If nothing at all today - tomorrow is the day for possible reveal. If not - guess we are waiting till January.

 

[Firox]

Let me start by saying for what feels like the third time now, sorry that in the Geno thread I loudly and adamantly support Geno while turning a blind eye to literally every other character. I do not have to acknowledge them as somehow more deserving than Geno, that's not being entitled, that's having loyalty and expectations. Is it selfish? Sure, but I'm not going to unrealistically sit around and act like every character in any video game ever has or even deserves a chance to be a playable character in Super Smash Bros, the most prestigious crossover video game ever made. Can the same argument be made against Geno? Certainly, and I hope people do, in threads that aren't dedicated to him.

Yes, every game starts with a project plan/design document if you're taking your endeavor seriously, and a company like Nintendo wouldn't allow a game to even start planning without one, and likely wouldn't even take the suggestion from a director without one. Honestly, to bring it up like that simply strengthens my argument.

Sakurai or someone under him drafts the project plan, looking something like this "It's Smash Bros but we're bringing everyone back this time, also let's aim to make these new modes and these new characters... And because it's such an undertaking to port models and make textures with better resolutions and not update the moveset of a good 3/4 of the roster at all, meaning we don't have to make much in the way of new animations, let's cut trophies and replace them with PNGs, that way we can fit boatloads of nods and references to virtually every game that's ever been on a Nintendo console without having to work at all." Perfect.

So while they were at this simplified project plan, somewhere towards the beginning Sakurai went over the ballot and picked out popular characters, that I won't deny. But nowhere in these scant newcomers did he find the need to put Geno in? Honestly, really think about it, it means one of two things:

1. He doesn't give a rat's ass about Geno. If Geno was in the top ranking Smash Ballot picks left over after veterans are removed from the mix and anime characters get put in the trash, Sakurai looked right over him and went for a competitor's character to put into the DLC plan. To top it off he willingly had someone negotiate the rights for the character to use a scan of the original model as an unimportant bonus mode halfass Trophy. Chances are higher than not that they paid money for that PNG. If that's not a kick in the nads I can't tell you one.

2. We're ****ing delusional to think that Geno is popular at all or even placed on the ballot as anything more than a blip on the radar.

The second doesn't really make sense if we take historical data into account along with fan polls that were probably run better than the actual Smash ballot. Geno did and still does top polls run for Smash inclusion. It's outright nonsense to think he didn't place on the Smash ballot itself.

I hate to echo Wynn or bring up hatred for Piranha Plant but really, if the project plan starts with looking over the ballot and picking out the top 10 (and that assumes that echo fighters should be considered full character inclusions), but then drawing an arbitrary line to put a random Mario enemy in sort of carries an implication that Sakurai really hated whoever 11 on that list is, and again that assumes that the top 10 names were everyone we got, including echo fighters (which as much as I like him, I'm fairly certain Richter Belmont was not there.) Considering we only got 5 truly new fighters, that stands to reason that the top 5 ballot winners, again, after veterans and Goku, didn't include Geno despite most fan polls putting him at 3 or 4. Am I really supposed to believe that? Something doesn't add up. And to be a little more open and inclusive to the struggles of other characters, you know who I do think beat Geno out for a top 5 spot, if they both weren't top 5? Waluigi. If Sakurai will add an outright clone of Villager and still pass them off as a brand new character and still cuck Waluigi with the snowglobe of death, it's pretty obvious that, if no one else, he at least despises Waluigi.

So no, I don't think it's a lazy argument to say that Sakurai hates any given character. A lot of research goes into making such a bold claim. Even if it was lazy, it isn't some catch all that I'm trying to use to keep myself from being attached to the idea of my character making it into Smash or to lessen the pain. The pain's already at max, bud, I've been waiting for Geno to make it into my favorite multiplayer game for half my life. How can I be any more upset/hurt/angry if he doesn't make it this time? To hell with it, I'll finally be able to move on with my life

While I definitely understand your frustration, believe me, I do, I also want to point out a few developments that are of note:

-Prior to Sm4sh, third party inclusions were extremely rare in the Smash bros franchise. Let's not pretend like Sonic, Snake, Megaman and Cloud didn't knock our socks off for the sheer "Holy ****, I can't believe they made it!" factor. That said,
-Third parties didn't REALLY take off until Smash Ultimate, especially with the fighters pass DLC which has thus far ONLY been third party.

Hence, regardless of any Geno-positive bias that Sakurai may have had, he faced at least two obstacles that have only recently been cleared:

1) The normalization of third party additions which Nintendo seems to have warmed up to likely due to their lucrative nature and fanbase reaching influence

2) Checked the desired inclusion boxes for FF and DQ to appease SE enough to allow Geno's addition.

Both of the above obstacles were dependent on Nintendo's relationship with its competitors, particularly SE, which required proper timing and the influence of the Smash Bros franchise at its peak.

In short, even if Sakurai had wanted Geno back during Brawl, the industrial climate likely wasn't ripe for the addition. Now, however, is a totally different story. Still, you COULD be right. There's still a chance that Sakurai just told us what we wanted to hear and gave us a mii costume/spirit thinking that it was enough.....BUT we simply lack the evidence to make a solid conclusion either way. That's why I think it's best we keep our eyes open and collect the facts. We have some seriously positive bread crumbs to follow so let's at least wait for the end before we officially cry foul.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Something I wanted to chime in on regarding Cacomallow. The NoA ambassador told us that Nintendo basically nuked the Ken leaker to oblivion (his story was that the Ken leaker was a beta tester and thus super easy to track down) but didn't do it until after the November Direct. Supposedly there was a lot of freaking out about it but they didn't start chopping heads until after Ken was formally revealed. That said, they still believe it's fake but it's worth noting that we have examples of Nintendo going after people before and after the fact. Food for thought: this could be another case of where they wait to hang the guy, kind of like what's happening now with Pokemon Spit and Rinse.

Very interesting

Though the difference with Pokemon is that they were held up trying to subpoena Discord and 4chan, and that took some time; only just now did they get the all clear for that

 

[TheCJBrine]

Since Sakurai said Geno gets a lot of requests and that he thinks he'd be perfect for Smash, and he liked a post about a Geno toy on Instagram, I'm sure the man isn't just giving Geno fans empty complements and pretending to care.

 

[Firox]

Since Sakurai said Geno gets a lot of requests and that he thinks he'd be perfect for Smash, and he liked a post about a Geno toy on Instagram, I'm sure the man isn't just giving Geno fans empty complements and pretending to care.

This is a very good point. It's pretty clear that he cares. The only question we need to answer now is, how much?

 

[Deleted member]

This is a very good point. It's pretty clear that he cares. The only question we need to answer now, is how much?

Time will tell.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

This is a very good point. It's pretty clear that he cares. The only question we need to answer now, is how much?

If Geno isn't in I don't think it's a case of Sakurai not caring enough. Like, he wanted to add Geno way back in Brawl when we only had 35 characters, if he thought he was a worthy addition back then you can only imagine that he'd consider him a priority now that we've got well over double that amount. The thing is that it doesn't just depend on him, it also depends on Nintendo and Square, I figure that if Geno doesn't make it it'll be because of one of those two.

 

[Deleted member]

Very interesting

Though the difference with Pokemon is that they were held up trying to subpoena Discord and 4chan, and that took some time; only just now did they get the all clear for that

The Pokemon leaks were a real threat to the financial success of the game. Nintendo/The Pokemon Company has a leg to stand on, legally speaking, to say that the leaks damaged the brand, as the revealed the truth that Sword and Shield were subpar in every way imaginable and then some. Not only that, the full game was out there, ready to go. I mean, just as anecdotal evidence, the Sword and Shield leaks took me from fence sitting to just firmly not wanting anything to do with the games, they literally cost Nintendo at least one sale. They're not held up on anything, they freaked out, in the open about a very real threat to their marketability.

Compare that to the Mallowdemon leak and even the Ken leak which we now know that Nintendo didn't "freak out" about and in fact made moves after the final direct so as not to turn heads on a more personal level. Videos were made about that image but they weren't taken down, were they? If it had been a video, do you think Nintendo would have tried to take it down? I kind of don't.

In a somewhat surprising way, this actually lines up with how we're being told they handled the Grinch leak - they seem to be aware that freaking out over a real leak would just tip people off to it, and likewise they even tried to bury a fan favorite fake to keep hopes from getting too high (and ironically, trying to bury the fake caused it to be more hyped up).

People like to point fingers at the fact that videos that broke street date on Ultimate got taken down, but again, that's kind of a different kettle of fish. With something like that, you have everyone knowing that the whole game has in fact leaked, and is available for download. Those videos aren't slamming the game or showing off any of its bad features (because it's actually a quality product, for one), but they are essentially advertising that you don't have to buy the game. You end up with the same situation as Pokemon, just everyone's finding out how good your game is instead of finding out how you cut corners until you achieved perfect roundness.

Obviously, this doesn't answer the hard questions about Mallowdemon. If real, why did the leaker choose to use Ken again, as if poking fun at the Ken leak? Why did they choose a stage and a characters that were already in the publicly available game build rather than have Terry or the King of Fighters stadium? Why pick only two Mii hats, and why pick ones that implicate two very specific characters? Why record a replay? Would the debug features (frozen timer) even still work in a replay? The questions go on and on.

 

[Firox]

If Geno isn't in I don't think it's a case of Sakurai not caring enough. Like, he wanted to add Geno way back in Brawl when we only had 35 characters, if he thought he was a worthy addition back then you can only imagine that he'd consider him a priority now that we've got well over double that amount. The thing is that it doesn't just depend on him, it also depends on Nintendo and Square, I figure that if Geno doesn't make it it'll be because of one of those two.

While I agree that there may be more parties at play here, a couple of things aren't adding up to me:

Firstly, what possible reason would Square have to hold out at this point? They already got their two biggest flagships in there so why hold back a character they never intended to use again anyway in exchange for a fat payday and a chance at reviving a beloved franchise (which, given the state of Mario RPGs at the moment, could REALLY use a reboot)? It literally makes no sense. They wouldn't even have to lift a finger. Just say, "Sure, put Geno in," and Sakurai does all the work. Then they just sit back and let the checks roll in. I guess it's possible that they could be hyper stingy and demand that another one of their currently live franchises get in (like 2B or another FF character) but not only would that be horribly greedy, but I think we're underestimating Sakurai's power here. Which leads me to my next point...

If the current fighters pass has taught us anything, it's "What Sakurai wants, Sakurai gets. Period." Sure, he claimed that Nintendo was calling the shots, but the DLC picks thus far have proven that his creative freedoms are hardly being curbed, if at all. Joker and Terry for example are 1000% Sakurai picks as evidenced by his own comments and those of their patron companies. One could argue the same for Hero and Banjo, with the latter proving that he isn't totally deaf to popular demand either.

In short, Sakurai's influence in the gaming industry is HUGE right now. Tons of devs are clamoring for representation because the visibility for their own IPs would also be huge. In fact, for all we know, Nintendo has hardly had to pay anything to secure rights since many companies would see it as free advertising. I dare say that any company to outright refuse Sakurai is just being idiotically stubborn. That said, I still think the biggest make or break to Geno's chances would be Sakurai himself. Maybe Nintendo and SE were obstacles BEFORE, but they shouldn't be now.

I mean, just as anecdotal evidence, the Sword and Shield leaks took me from fence sitting to just firmly not wanting anything to do with the games, they literally cost Nintendo at least one sale.

Full disclosure, the leaks threw me over the opposite side of the fence as well. I was already cynical about it but the leaks only confirmed my worries.

 

[StarBot]

Sakurai's influence in the gaming industry is HUGE right now. Tons of devs are clamoring for representation because the visibility for their own IPs would also be huge.

I keep seeing comments like "Smash is huge" "Tons of devs would kill to be represented in game"

Which isn't wrong, but I would like to remind everyone that there was surprisingly enough of devs and companies that declined according to Sakurai

Unlreated to Geno, but I remember when people just quickly dismiss the current director of the Puyo Puyo series comments on how he doesn't want to see the characters fight in realistic manner

Because "he would be stupid ingore all that free advertisement tho!!"

 

[EarlTamm]

I keep seeing comments like "Smash is huge" "Tons of devs would kill to be represented in game"

Which isn't wrong, but I would like to remind everyone that there was surprisingly enough of devs and companies that declined according to Sakurai

Unlreated to Geno, but I remember when people just quickly dismiss the current director of the Puyo Puyo series comments on how he doesn't want to see the characters fight in realistic manner

Because "he would be stupid ingore all that free advertisement tho!!"

When was that stated?

 

[MisterMike]

Let me start by saying for what feels like the third time now, sorry that in the Geno thread I loudly and adamantly support Geno while turning a blind eye to literally every other character. I do not have to acknowledge them as somehow more deserving than Geno, that's not being entitled, that's having loyalty and expectations. Is it selfish? Sure, but I'm not going to unrealistically sit around and act like every character in any video game ever has or even deserves a chance to be a playable character in Super Smash Bros, the most prestigious crossover video game ever made. Can the same argument be made against Geno? Certainly, and I hope people do, in threads that aren't dedicated to him.

Yes, every game starts with a project plan/design document if you're taking your endeavor seriously, and a company like Nintendo wouldn't allow a game to even start planning without one, and likely wouldn't even take the suggestion from a director without one. Honestly, to bring it up like that simply strengthens my argument.

Sakurai or someone under him drafts the project plan, looking something like this "It's Smash Bros but we're bringing everyone back this time, also let's aim to make these new modes and these new characters... And because it's such an undertaking to port models and make textures with better resolutions and not update the moveset of a good 3/4 of the roster at all, meaning we don't have to make much in the way of new animations, let's cut trophies and replace them with PNGs, that way we can fit boatloads of nods and references to virtually every game that's ever been on a Nintendo console without having to work at all." Perfect.

So while they were at this simplified project plan, somewhere towards the beginning Sakurai went over the ballot and picked out popular characters, that I won't deny. But nowhere in these scant newcomers did he find the need to put Geno in? Honestly, really think about it, it means one of two things:

1. He doesn't give a rat's ass about Geno. If Geno was in the top ranking Smash Ballot picks left over after veterans are removed from the mix and anime characters get put in the trash, Sakurai looked right over him and went for a competitor's character to put into the DLC plan. To top it off he willingly had someone negotiate the rights for the character to use a scan of the original model as an unimportant bonus mode halfass Trophy. Chances are higher than not that they paid money for that PNG. If that's not a kick in the nads I can't tell you one.

2. We're ****ing delusional to think that Geno is popular at all or even placed on the ballot as anything more than a blip on the radar.

The second doesn't really make sense if we take historical data into account along with fan polls that were probably run better than the actual Smash ballot. Geno did and still does top polls run for Smash inclusion. It's outright nonsense to think he didn't place on the Smash ballot itself.

I hate to echo Wynn or bring up hatred for Piranha Plant but really, if the project plan starts with looking over the ballot and picking out the top 10 (and that assumes that echo fighters should be considered full character inclusions), but then drawing an arbitrary line to put a random Mario enemy in sort of carries an implication that Sakurai really hated whoever 11 on that list is, and again that assumes that the top 10 names were everyone we got, including echo fighters (which as much as I like him, I'm fairly certain Richter Belmont was not there.) Considering we only got 5 truly new fighters, that stands to reason that the top 5 ballot winners, again, after veterans and Goku, didn't include Geno despite most fan polls putting him at 3 or 4. Am I really supposed to believe that? Something doesn't add up. And to be a little more open and inclusive to the struggles of other characters, you know who I do think beat Geno out for a top 5 spot, if they both weren't top 5? Waluigi. If Sakurai will add an outright clone of Villager and still pass them off as a brand new character and still cuck Waluigi with the snowglobe of death, it's pretty obvious that, if no one else, he at least despises Waluigi.

So no, I don't think it's a lazy argument to say that Sakurai hates any given character. A lot of research goes into making such a bold claim. Even if it was lazy, it isn't some catch all that I'm trying to use to keep myself from being attached to the idea of my character making it into Smash or to lessen the pain. The pain's already at max, bud, I've been waiting for Geno to make it into my favorite multiplayer game for half my life. How can I be any more upset/hurt/angry if he doesn't make it this time? To hell with it, I'll finally be able to move on with my life.

You're missing the point. I'm not calling your attitude entitled because you really want a specific character because we've all been there, rather I'm calling your attitude entitled because it is entitled. You seem to genuinely believe that you not getting the character you've wanted is not only indicative of some sort of malicious intent on Sakurai's part, but is entirely unique to you and you along. Wynn does this kind of **** all the time when he talks about the November 1st Direct, he complains about how disappointed he was in it and how it "opened his eyes" to how little Sakurai allegedly cares about the fans.

This kind of methodology is like some guy being in a bus crash, and every so often he brings it up to you, relishing in the sheer terror and misery he felt being in that crash. Meanwhile there were around 30 something people in that bus crash alongside him who went through the exact same things he did, but who have not only completely gotten over it, but have never since felt the need to bring it up again for any reason. You're sitting here complaining about how much you think Sakurai hates Geno based on him not having already put him in Smash, talking about how damn terrible that is, meanwhile you conveniently pay little mind to the hundreds of thousands of characters that people have wanted since Melee that still haven't made it in Smash. To use another analogy, you're like a 13 year-old emo kid who cries about his "DEEP INNER TORMENT" and how people "JUST DON'T UNDERSTAAAAAND!" as you live a cushy life in your middle-class american bedroom blasting your Linkin Park music at full volume as you're busy making your ****ty Naruto AMVs. It's pathetic.

Obviously, this doesn't answer the hard questions about Mallowdemon. If real, why did the leaker choose to use Ken again, as if poking fun at the Ken leak?

Depending on where you stand on it, it's either the faker trying to make the post seem more legitimate my making reference to an actual credible leak, the same guy trying to use it as his calling card of sorts, or just a coincidence. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter.

Why did they choose a stage and a characters that were already in the publicly available game build rather than have Terry or the King of Fighters stadium? Why pick only two Mii hats, and why pick ones that implicate two very specific characters?

I went into this in a previous post, but I think it was just a way to sort of avoid detection, because using someone like Terry would certainly draw a lot of attention to it from on high. I'd imagine he'd want to avoid that kind of press as much as possible.
https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/post-23742039

Why record a replay? Would the debug features (frozen timer) even still work in a replay?

Well a replay can be sent to other devices remotely, which would allow him to more easily sneak some footage by everyone. All he'd have to do is save it, wait until everyone is out of the building, and quietly record it from there. And as far as I know yes, the timer still appears in replays.

 

[Firox]

Which isn't wrong, but I would like to remind everyone that there was surprisingly enough of devs and companies that declined according to Sakurai

Unlreated to Geno, but I remember when people just quickly dismiss the current director of the Puyo Puyo series comments on how he doesn't want to see the characters fight in realistic manner

Because "he would be stupid ingore all that free advertisement tho!!"

Talk about twisting words out of context. Firstly, what devs supposedly turned Sakurai down? I don't ever remember hearing that. Source please?

Secondly, it's totally understandable why the director wouldn't want Puyo Puyo in something like smash. We're talking about little colored blobs. All due respect to the advocates of tetromino figters, but it would honestly be stupid to put a faceless, limbless block (or blob) in a fighting game. Apparently, the developers of said IPs agree with me. And even if it wasn't, there is a myriad of other characters out there that would simply fit better in the genre. Sorry, that's just how I feel.

Lastly, you're grossly underestimating the amount of power that Smash inclusion supplies. Case in point, I never had any clue who Joker was prior to his inclusion. Since then, I've bought Persona 5 and now love him and the franchise. Doubt I'm the only one. Hero and Terry were similar and I bet there are tons of people that at least look deeper into those IPs after seeing them in smash. So yes, it WOULD be stupid to ignore the exposure unless your franchise realistically wouldn't fit in the first place.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

So this is where we are? "Sakurai secretly hates Geno and is leading all of us on"?

 

[Firox]

So this is where we are? "Sakurai secretly hates Geno and is leading all of us on"?

I wouldn't say "we". There's maybe one or two people that think that but there's been a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise. I would advise that we move on from the topic since it's really not productive and frankly too early to draw such a conclusion.

So a more interesting question I would have for everyone is what other costumes would come with a playable Geno? Assuming Mallow and Smithy costumes turn out to be real, what else could there be besides Chocobo?