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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Rohanx17

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
1,088
Honestly I really just want to see 1st party characters get to be a part of speculation once again. the current dlc has pigeonholed us so hard into big 3rd party names, many of which have little to nothing to do with nintendo or are full blown sony or pc characters. Honestly I'm slightly disappointed that none of the names that got dropped in the other day were the 1st party ones, which we know do in fact exist and might actually make of up the majority of the unknown members of the "10" at this point. Hopefully sometime relatively soon fatman gets clearance to share even just one of them because I think it would do wonders to revitalize the discussion and I'm super intrigued as to what 1st party characters would be be entirely new to smash but were around before 2017 as he put it.
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
So, maybe this can help with the arguing?

So it's finally time for this post to live and exist. It's taken multiple times and way too many days but I find it fitting to have this fall on Thanksgiving as this post has the goal of bringing both Geno fans together under what our boy represents as well as acknowledging that Smash Ultimate is indeed a game focused on being fun for as many player types as possible. That being said, I do hope you guys share this in circles who maybe aren't all about or super keen on Geno, and I understand how this can seemingly be pretty gusto and putting other fans on blast, but trust me if you keep reading it will all make sense. That being said...

WANTING OTHER CHARACTERS OVER GENO IS FINE, BUT ACTIVELY BEING AGAINST GENO'S INCLUSION IS THE WORST STANCE YOU COULD POSSIBLY TAKE!

And shortly now, I will explain why this is the case.

Think back about when Smash was first announced and how ridiculous that first announcement was. We got nothing more than Smash was coming, Link may have changes to him, and Inklings will be in. The internet exploded with speculation and it was a wonderful time to be alive as Flash Mothers was indeed coming soon. Now, think about each announcement since then and how each announcement catered to a player audience.

When they announced :ultinkling::ultinklingboy: it was a character people had thought would be in Smash 4 and a character people wanted, so they appealed to players who wanted newer Nintendo characters. Then in June of last year they announced that :ulticeclimbers::ultpokemontrainer::ultsnake::ultpichu::ultyounglink::ultwolf: were returning as well as giving us :ultdaisy: and :ultridley:. This announcement appealed to veteran players of Melee and Brawl who wanted returning characters more than anyone else, as well as fans who want a character even if they are only possible if they are an Echo Fighter and the first of many caterings to long-time requests for Smash from the community. Also keep in mind that no single character was cut, meaning they appealed to literally every Smash fan in existence and took the high road when they could have easily made some cuts. I remember how everyone swore there was no way would would get more than two more characters and how Sakurai had already done so much.

Then August came and we were all blown away again. :ultsimon::ultrichter:, followed by :ultchrom::ultdarksamus: and of course :ultkrool:. This was also amidst lots of information that catered to both casual and competitive players as well as the largest amount of stages and music ever to be seen in a Smash game and possible any other fighting game ever. Once again, this proved that Ultimate was doing it's absolute best to appeal to everyone it could: long-time fans who had become less vocal and felt like their series lost it's identity, players who love American-born characters, people who had just recently gotten their character snubbed in the previous title, and yet again another long-time Smash community pick. This announcement was huge and really pleased the most amount of people, which is why the next announcements were so off putting for most.

Now I need you all to open your minds when I list these last four characters because many of you were not happy with their inclusion to some degree or another. The first of these is :ultisabelle:. Now I know that so wasn't on everyone's list, but it was a perfect announcement to get another very popular character from a franchise that had little representation and it brought in more newer-but-not-that-new players. Then we got :ultken::ultincineroar: and :ultpiranha:, two of which are VERY controversial. Ken is the perfect example of picking a favorite 3rd party that is easy to include while also showing the extents of how far an Echo Fighter can really go. Incineroar is appealing to newer players to attract Pokemon fans as well as fans of the new playstyle being introduced to Smash. Piranha Plant was the perfect silly gimmick character and appeals to those who love Sakurai's silly picks as well as the increasing demand for common enemies to be more fleshed out and be involved in more games. Despite how many fans felt, each character was designed in a way to try and be fun for a certain demographic of player...and THEN we GOT...

DLC~!
The first announcement was :ultjoker: and boy did that get everyone fired up again. Even his own fans thought he had no chance, yet here was Sakurai showing it was possible and that in fact he was a huge fan of the game himself. Not only would this pick appeal to newer players or players who may have not normally played Smash, but it also appealed to people who had more beloved characters tied to competitor systems and showed yet again that no one is off limits.

After that we got :ulthero: and this was another controversial one, though it never really should have been. Dragon Quest has always been massively popular in Japan and around the world and recent events show that the US is finally catching up to speed with that trend. This was appealing to the Eastern audience in particular, but also proved that with Sakurai, it's more of an inevitability than anything else.

Then holy good lord in heaven these two showed up. :ultbanjokazooie: were just an absolute bombshell and it blew everything out of the water. The impossible was yet AGAIN possible and all Sakurai had to do was want to make it happen. Obviously, this appealed to mainly a Western audience, but this was also yet ANOTHER long-time Smash community pick finally getting the call (or letter, actually) to join Smash. This was even more proof that Sakurai can get whoever he wants into Smash, that Smash has such pull that IP owners are scrambling the moment they here Sakurai is coming to visit.

Then we got our most recent reveal, :ult_terry:. He wasn't so much controversial as he was rather unknown to the majority of the Smash fanbase due to being filled with younger gamers as well as gamers who don't typical branch out too much in terms of the games they play or on what consoles. However, that didn't stop Sakurai from picking him and giving some noobs a history lesson in the glories of olden gaming and the legacy of one of fighting games's most iconic characters this side of Street Fighter. This character was appealing towards both traditional fighting game players as well as older gamers who would know about Terry from their youth.

Now that I've listed all the characters, think over their appeal again. Recall how they all appeal to different audiences and how they are all fun at their core. Keep that fresh in your mind as I now explain why Geno is the perfect inclusion for everyone and anyone, including those who want other characters much more than him.

This whole cycle...no, this WHOLE GAME has been about breaking down barriers and fan rules on why certain characters can't get in, and for every fan rule that has been smashed to pieces we've gotten closer and closer to a point where we all genuinely believe that anything can happen. What I'm here to tell you is that Geno getting into Smash Ultimate would be the final nail in the coffin and would be proof that literally any video-game-originating character (sorry Goku fans!) is possible after his inclusion, that no character is too far gone to be in Smash.

You see all those rules that have been broken? Geno is the extreme version of each and every one of them.

Ridley couldn't happen because of limitations and he hadn't been in for so long so he would never happen AND he got unplayable forms? He got in, and Geno is an extreme of this (though in some ways not as extreme as Ridley, I will admit).

King K. Rool couldn't get in because he was irrelevant and 'Nintendo hated him'? He got in, and Geno is an extreme of that.

Banjo & Kazooie couldn't get in because not only is he irrelevant and 'been dead' for too long but he is 3rd party AND from a company that is not the easiest to work with? They got in, and Geno is an extreme of that.

Square Enix is too stingy and there is no way a character of theirs/more than one character of theirs could get in? Cloud and Hero got in, and Geno is an extreme of that.

Nearly any argument you could make for a character not being able to get in applies to Geno, and he usually takes it to the next level. He's been asked just as long or longer than most Smash community picks, is more currently irrelevant than any other character mentioned, has been in less games and considered 'dead' for far longer than most others, and he has the added issues of being from a company that has an iron grip on their IPs that also has past bad blood with Nintendo as well as being a mix of a 1st and 3rd party character as well as not having much source material to pick and choose from...the list goes on and on...and yet right now, he's a front-runner for being in the game sooner rather than later.

For those of you who don't want Geno, understand this: if Geno gets in, whoever the character is that you want becomes that much more possible and plausible. Is your character already in the game as a Spirit or Assist Trophy? Geno got in, so it's possible! Has your character's series been dead for years? Geno got in, so it's possible! Is your character irrelevant in the current gaming sphere? Geno got in, so it's possible! Is your character not even the 'main' character of the game? Geno got in, so it's possible! Is your character owned by a company that you think would be hard to work with? Geno got in, so it's possible! Is your character owned by a company that already got a character in the game? Geno got in, so it's possible! Have you supported and fought for your character to get in for years and you are at the breaking point and feel like giving up, like it's never going to happen? Geno got in, SO IT'S POSSIBLE!

Yet again, the list goes on and on.

THIS IS WHY BEING AGAINST GENO'S INCLUSION IS THE WORST STANCE TO TAKE, BECAUSE BEING AGAINST HIM MEANS BEING AGAINST A CHARACTER THAT OPENS THE DOOR FOR SO MANY MORE, INCLUDING YOUR MOST WANTED! DON'T DO THIS! YOU CAN WANT SOMEONE OVER GENO, BUT DON'T BE ACTIVELY AGAINST HIM, AS HE COULD BE THE STEPPING STONE TO GETTING WHO YOU WANT IN THE GAME!
 
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OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
So Geno is doing his loser's bracket match against Johnny Bravo tomorrow for the KFAD and..... well he's looking totally ****ed tbh lmao. (Although I made a promise that I'd vote Geno after I helped Weird Al send him to the shadow realm)
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
1,881
And you call them steamed leaks despite the fact that they're obviously rumours?
Uh... you know... one thing I shou-... 'scuse me for one second. *retreats into NoA's flaming HQ then returns* Well, that was wonderful. Good time was had by all, I'm pooped.
 

Jomosensual

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Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
I leave for a day and somehow come back to people arguing that the Para leak was real and Waluigi is DLC 5? What the hell
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Just some extra stuff I want to type out:

Waluigi

I like Waluigi. But I don't think he's in, primarily because I don't get why they would waste their time with his AT only to make him a character later on.

Sure, you could say the same thing about Chrom, but they probably just made Robin first and then thought "Let's throw in Chrom too" last minute as an echo. You can kinda tell he was last minute in the same vein that Dark Pit was.
I don't know why they just didn't replace RobinFS!Chrom with someone like Lissa or Morgan, or even Grima. But hey, I'm not Sakurai so who knows.

With Waluigi, it's different. He'll undeniably have a unique moveset. He's not going to be last minute like Chrom.

Basically to sum things up, assist promotions in the same game don't make much sense to me, because even just porting over an AT like Waluigi takes up dev time. That'll go to waste if they promote him later on.

Square Enix

I think SE's problem lies with it's composers. They work with some very difficult composers.

FF: The FF composer you have to pay royalties for EACH track. It's not like any company where you get the rights to a character, you get everything else.
DQ: Their composer is an old coot that thinks MIDIs are perfectly acceptable as a soundtrack for a big-budget title. The guy is controversial, to say the least.

I don't know what's going on with the base spirits, but I'd presume a similar reason for FF. I think FF is just difficult to negotiate for in general.
I actually think SE were somewhat generous with their DQ spirits, they could have just gave us Slime and the party members from DQ11, but they added a couple more. They even included a spirit you can evolve into a better one, that's not usually seen for DLC spirits.

So I think it's only a problem for DQ and FF. I think Nintendo would be the exact same when trying to give out Mario or Zelda. They'd be very stingy to work with, too. At least Square allows fangames to exist.

If we get Geno, I don't think he'll be getting two tracks. Proof? Yoko, SMRPG's composer. She's already worked on the game, and still provides new tracks for us (I believe she worked on one of the new SNK remixes, IIRC)
She's proven to have no issues working for Smash, and will probably happily provide new SMRPG remixes for the game, or simply allow her music to be used.

I think SE are just stingy with DQ and FF because that's their two most important franchises. They won't be as stingy with something like SMRPG. If Sora gets in, Disney will be the stingy one, not SE.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
Just some extra stuff I want to type out:

Waluigi

I like Waluigi. But I don't think he's in, primarily because I don't get why they would waste their time with his AT only to make him a character later on.

Sure, you could say the same thing about Chrom, but they probably just made Robin first and then thought "Let's throw in Chrom too" last minute as an echo. You can kinda tell he was last minute in the same vein that Dark Pit was.
I don't know why they just didn't replace RobinFS!Chrom with someone like Lissa or Morgan, or even Grima. But hey, I'm not Sakurai so who knows.

With Waluigi, it's different. He'll undeniably have a unique moveset. He's not going to be last minute like Chrom.

Basically to sum things up, assist promotions in the same game don't make much sense to me, because even just porting over an AT like Waluigi takes up dev time. That'll go to waste if they promote him later on.

Square Enix

I think SE's problem lies with it's composers. The FF composer you have to pay royalties for EACH track. It's not like any company where you get the rights to a character, you get everything else.

With DQ, their composer is an old coot that thinks MIDIs are perfectly acceptable as a soundtrack for a big-budget title. The guy is controversial, to say the least.

I don't know what's going on with the base spirits, but I'd presume a similar reason for FF. I think FF is just difficult to negotiate for in general.
I actually think SE were somewhat generous with their DQ spirits, they could have just gave us Slime and the party members from DQ11, but they added a couple more. They even included a spirit you can evolve into a better one, that's not usually seen for DLC spirits.

So I think it's only a problem for DQ and FF. I think Nintendo would be the exact same when trying to give out Mario or Zelda. They'd be very stingy to work with, too.

If we get Geno, I don't think he'll be getting two tracks. Proof? Yoko, SMRPG's composer. She's already worked on the game, and still provides new tracks for us (I believe she worked on one of the new SNK remixes, IIRC)
She's proven to have no issues working for Smash, and will probably happily provide new SMRPG remixes for the game, or simply allow her music to be used.

I think SE are just stingy with DQ and FF because that's their two most important franchises. They won't be as stingy with SMRPG. If Sora gets in, Disney will be the stingy one, not SE.
I think Waluigi could get in if for no other reason that the internet would eat that **** up so much. He prints money.
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Also I have no clue how I ended up in here because I thought I was in the Speculation thread. So.... uh... Let's go Geno I guess.
 

wynn728

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,380
No, that's a misconception. Please read my theory again.
I read it, but Waluigi isn't going to be the fifth fighter or a fighter in general. The video Jon made wasn't a hint since he been going on and on how Rex & Pyra are save bets that are making into Smash Bros work a few weeks.

Also major factor of Waluigi not being the Fifth Fighter is the Spirits. Each Fighters Pass character brings their own Spirit and the Mario series already has over a hundred Spirits. There barely anything left noteworth that Waluigi could possibly bring with him him as Spirits.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think Waluigi could get in if for no other reason that the internet would eat that **** up so much. He prints money.
I mean, sure. He'll definitely spark conversation, and I'd love to see an assist promotion in the same game to put that "X can't be a character because they're a spirit/mii costume/assist" argument to rest. But unfortunately, I just don't see it happening because dev time is valuable, the dev time spent with that AT should have just gone to developing the actual character.
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
1,881
Basically to sum things up, assist promotions in the same game don't make much sense to me, because even just porting over an AT like Waluigi takes up dev time. That'll go to waste if they promote him later on.
I've seen the idea of assist promotions and what would happen to the Assist Trophies discussed many times, and there's at least a couple ways they could go about that without the dev time and resources "going to waste"...
  • Some Assist Trophies already won't appear on certain stages (Alucard won't appear on Wii Fit Studio, Knuckles won't appear on Green Hill Zone, etc.). After an Assist Trophy character becomes playable, the Assist Trophy version could still be in the game and show up from the item, but it specifically won't appear when the playable character version is currently in the battle.
  • The Assist Trophy character stays and remains completely untouched and shows up regardless of who's in the battle, while we get a playable version of the character that looks visually different (i.e. the Akira Yuki Assist Trophy uses his original polygon-heavy model from the first Virtua Fighter game, whereas a playable version of Akira could use his Virtua Fighter 2/Project X Zone design with a smoother model).
The only way the dev time and resources spent on Assist Trophies would go to waste is if, upon promotion to being playable, they just completely removed the Assist Trophy version of the character from the game, which I don't see them doing.
 
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3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,390
Honestly, Shadow seems more likely as a promotion imo. I am kinda biased, but hear me out!
Sonic has a good amount of characters that aren't spirits, some music that everyone wants, and multiple characters that could easily replace shadow as an AT, most prominently Silver. As well, there are a lot of stages that could happen from the Sonic world.
Waluigi doesn't have many characters that could be a spirit, and no AT to replace. He could bring back Rainbow Road tho... Which would be sick... But honestly Waluigi doesn't have too much to bring in terms of spirits and no one could replace him. Shadow just seems easier, and he is very popular.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I've seen the idea of assist promotions and what would happen to the Assist Trophies discussed many times, and there's at least a couple ways they could go about that without the dev time and resources "going to waste"...
  • Some Assist Trophies already won't appear on certain stages (Alucard won't appear on Wii Fit Studio, Knuckles won't appear on Green Hill Zone, etc.). After an Assist Trophy character becomes playable, the Assist Trophy version could still be in the game and show up from the item, but it specifically won't appear when the playable character version is currently in the battle.
  • The Assist Trophy character stays and remains completely untouched and shows up regardless of who's in the battle, while we get a playable version of the character that looks visually different (i.e. the Akira Yuki Assist Trophy uses his original polygon-heavy model from the first Virtua Fighter game, whereas a playable version of Akira could use his Virtua Fighter 2/Project X Zone design with a smoother model).
The only way the dev time and resources spent on Assist Trophies would go to waste is if, upon promotion to being playable, they just completely removed the Assist Trophy version of the character from the game, which I don't see them doing.
Hmm, okay. I see what you mean, it just seems a bit redundant. Especially with the first option, but I like the second option. That'd work.

Honestly, Waluigi's AT feels really dated. Compare him to someone like Alucard or Shovel Knight, which are barely an inch away from being playable.
At a glance you could barely tell they're actually Assists. With Waluigi, you can tell. He feels limited, like his assist is just a straight port from Brawl/Smash 4. He does one thing, then leaves. A couple of others feel that way too, like Shadow and Ashley. Whereas with Alucard he has the animations of a playable character without actually being one. He can fly as a bat, he reacts to being hit, he can pull off things similar to Smash attacks, et cetera.
I guess I'm a bit spoiled by the Ultimate ATs that the older ones just look kinda.. bad to me. Even Isaac got some updates from his Brawl AT.

So having a moveset that looks good compared to the next match where a dated AT appears will just honestly look jarring to me. I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I just don't know. It'll feel weird to me.
That said, I'd love for Waluigi to be in - he got robbed this game, lol.
 
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ivanlerma

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Feb 5, 2019
Messages
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Guys i forgot to mention that i got the resident evil spirits already, iv'e been also fantasizing wesker's theme from Resident Evil 5 playing while battling him while possessing Captain Falcon.
 

Giga Kaiju

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GigaKaiju
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Guys i forgot to mention that i got the resident evil spirits already, iv'e been also fantasizing wesker's theme from Resident Evil 5 playing while battling him while possessing Captain Falcon.
I am trying to get them right now too. Having a blast.

Despite most looking down upon spirits, it is certainly fun to fight them and or leveling them up.

:bowser:.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,085
Honestly, Shadow seems more likely as a promotion imo. I am kinda biased, but hear me out!
Sonic has a good amount of characters that aren't spirits, some music that everyone wants, and multiple characters that could easily replace shadow as an AT, most prominently Silver. As well, there are a lot of stages that could happen from the Sonic world.
Waluigi doesn't have many characters that could be a spirit, and no AT to replace. He could bring back Rainbow Road tho... Which would be sick... But honestly Waluigi doesn't have too much to bring in terms of spirits and no one could replace him. Shadow just seems easier, and he is very popular.

Wouldn't Waluigi having less to bring be a plus in his favor? I assume you're talking about Post Pass. Post Pass doesn't have to work like Fighter pass where every Fighter has extra stuff. it could be like the Plant and just be the character. less Development time on extra resources

The main reason i can see Shadow getting in over Waluigi because Shadow is a easier character to develop i feel due to his model and body similarities to Sonic, while at the same time having potential for unique mechanics with Chaos control to make an interesting character. Also he's the Ultimate Life Form and this is Smash Ultimate. Still why can't we get both though?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think Waluigi would represent the Mario spinoffs (excluding the RPGs, Geno'd probably do that) so Mario Tennis/Golf/Strikers, and obviously Mario Kart.
He has plenty of spirits to work with from those games. Plenty of tracks, too. If you didn't want to create a new stage for him in the form of something like Waluigi Pinball, you can just take either the Tennis Court from Aces or you update Rainbow Road 3DS to the MK8 version.
 

RingJ5

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
617
I was going to post this huge thing somewhat agreeing with Serenade about how this thread had basically turned into the “Lloyd General #2” and that being pretty frustrating, but in doing so I ended up noticing two particular trends that I practically never see brought up but I found to be pretty interesting and relevant to the overall discussion:

1. Nintendo has never actually ended a Smash season even remotely predictably.

Melee had Mr. G&W. Brawl had ROB. Wii U had Duck Hunt. Wii U DLC had Bayonetta. Ultimate had Kencineroar... except, by the Palutena’s Guidance, it’s pretty clear that it was supposed to end on Piranha Plant, of all characters.

Now, of these, Bayonetta is clearly the one to focus on, being the other big DLC finale. Regardless of your personal opinion of her reveal or whether you think her Ballot win was legitimate or not, the one thing you basically can’t call her is remotely expected in any way, and I’d expect #5 to follow suit.

However, as I was looking up Bayonetta’s release situation, I noticed a second, far more peculiar pattern that I don’t think has ever really been mentioned before.

2. With the sole exception of the absolute undisputed megaton that was Cloud, all “anime swordfighter” reveals since the announcement of Wii U have either been combined with another non-swordfighter character or very unceremoniously dumped on the website/Miiverse.

Whether you might think they’re an issue or not, it seems like Nintendo themselves have intentionally made sure that, again with the single exception of Cloud, no anime swordsmen characters have been given the singular spotlight for quite a few years now.

Robin/Lucina reveal trailer: Also confirmed Captain Falcon’s return
Shulk’s reveal: A random Miiverse post
Roy’s return as DLC: Paired with Ryu’s announcement
Corrin’s reveal as DLC: Paired with Bayonetta’s announcement
Chrom’s reveal: Directly paired with Dark Samus in a double reveal, in a stream that also revealed three other characters
Hero’s reveal as DLC: Paired with Banjo’s announcement

I’ll fully admit that the Robin and Chrom ones are a bit of a stretch, but the rest paint a pretty interesting picture, in my opinion. From this, I have drawn two particular conclusions:

1. Lloyd, an ascended Mii Costume who would be the second full anime swordfighter and third JRPG protagonist of the pass, from a series solely created with and published by Ultimate’s co-developer, most likely isn’t going to be #5, since it would be an incredibly, incredibly predictable way to end off what was apparently once planned as the flat-out final Ultimate character.

2. In the event that he actually is #5, he’ll be the lead-in of a huge double reveal with someone else with more “mass appeal”, like Doomslayer or Rayman, like all previous “anime swordfighter” DLC reveals.

Again, this is all my personal theory stuff, your own mileage may vary, etc, etc.

Anyway, we need to get back to Geno, so...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO VOTE FOR GENO IN KFAD RIGHT NOW BY CLICKING HERE, MAKE SURE HE DOESN’T LOSE AGAIN!

Here, I’m even directly linking the form this time, especially since the video oddly isn’t up yet. We can totally beat Johnny Bravo with the power of us and Kingdom Hearts(also a part of Geno’s source list) combined!
 
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MondoMega

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
121
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SW 5702 4282 1237
Shulk’s reveal: A random Miiverse post
Shulk was revealed in a Nintendo Direct though. It may have been a Japan-Only Direct, but he was still the sole Smash reveal in it (tied to the announcement of Xenoblade 3D and the New 3DS). Nintendo of Japan have deleted a bunch of their older Directs, but here's a reupload:

 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,984
I was going to post this huge thing somewhat agreeing with Serenade about how this thread had basically turned into the “Lloyd General #2” and that being pretty frustrating, but in doing so I ended up noticing two particular trends that I practically never see brought up but I found to be pretty interesting and relevant to the overall discussion:

1. Nintendo has never actually ended a Smash season even remotely predictably.

Melee had Mr. G&W. Brawl had ROB. Wii U had Duck Hunt. Wii U DLC had Bayonetta. Ultimate had Kencineroar... except, by the Palutena’s Guidance, it’s pretty clear that it was supposed to end on Piranha Plant, of all characters.

Now, of these, Bayonetta is clearly the one to focus on, being the other big DLC finale. Regardless of your personal opinion of her reveal or whether you think her Ballot win was legitimate or not, the one thing you basically can’t call her is remotely expected in any way, and I’d expect #5 to follow suit.

However, as I was looking up Bayonetta’s release situation, I noticed a second, far more peculiar pattern that I don’t think has ever really been mentioned before.

2. With the sole exception of the absolute undisputed megaton that was Cloud, all “anime swordfighter” reveals since the announcement of Wii U have either been combined with another non-swordfighter character or very unceremoniously dumped on the website/Miiverse.

Whether you might think they’re an issue or not, it seems like Nintendo themselves have intentionally made sure that, again with the single exception of Cloud, no anime swordsmen characters have been given the singular spotlight for quite a few years now.

Robin/Lucina reveal trailer: Also confirmed Captain Falcon’s return
Shulk’s reveal: A random Miiverse post
Roy’s return as DLC: Paired with Ryu’s announcement
Corrin’s reveal as DLC: Paired with Bayonetta’s announcement
Chrom’s reveal: Directly paired with Dark Samus in a double reveal, in a stream that also revealed three other characters
Hero’s reveal as DLC: Paired with Banjo’s announcement

I’ll fully admit that the Robin and Chrom ones are a bit of a stretch, but the rest paint a pretty interesting picture, in my opinion. From this, I have drawn two particular conclusions:

1. Lloyd, an ascended Mii Costume who would be the second full anime swordfighter and third JRPG protagonist of the pass, from a series solely created with and published by Ultimate’s co-developer, most likely isn’t going to be #5.
2. In the event that he actually is #5, he’ll be the lead-in of a huge double reveal with someone else with more “mass appeal”, like Doomslayer or Rayman.

Again, this is all my personal theory stuff, your own mileage may vary, etc, etc.

Anyway, we need to get back to Geno, so...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO VOTE FOR GENO IN KFAD RIGHT NOW BY CLICKING HERE, MAKE SURE HE DOESN’T LOSE AGAIN!

Here, I’m even directly linking the form this time, especially since the video oddly isn’t up yet. We can totally beat Johnny Bravo with the power of us and Kingdom Hearts(also a part of Geno’s source list) combined!
Real quick before I die, I will say Bayonetta was talked about a lot in discussion, it was just thought she was "too sexy for Smash" and also the whole guns thing. Because of those reasons she was speculated but not heavily considered to be possible...and then it happened.

I'm seeing the same things here in some ways for Lloyd. All these excuses for why he can't be in, which some have decent weight against him to make it seem like he has no chance...so watch him happen in spite of all that!

Also, I'm down with Lloyd leading off a double-reveal. There has definitely been enough time to have passed to have a double reveal.
 

RingJ5

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
617
Shulk was revealed in a Nintendo Direct though. It may have been a Japan-Only Direct, but he was still the sole Smash reveal in it (tied to the announcement of Xenoblade 3D and the New 3DS). Nintendo of Japan have deleted a bunch of their older Directs, but here's a reupload:

Ah, it appears that the wiki has failed me on that front. However, the more salient point about DLC announcements still stands, at least, since we’re three for three with that so far.


Real quick before I die, I will say Bayonetta was talked about a lot in discussion, it was just thought she was "too sexy for Smash" and also the whole guns thing. Because of those reasons she was speculated but not heavily considered to be possible...and then it happened.

I'm seeing the same things here in some ways for Lloyd. All these excuses for why he can't be in, which some have decent weight against him to make it seem like he has no chance...so watch him happen in spite of all that!

Also, I'm down with Lloyd leading off a double-reveal. There has definitely been enough time to have passed to have a double reveal.
Honestly, after looking at everything I gathered, the main thing going against Lloyd right now is predictability. Him getting in would not remotely be surprising to basically anyone at this point. It’s not so much of a “he has so many hurdles to get in” situation as it is a “oh, that one character that people called since day one due to his absence in Pac-Man’s taunt of all things happened, just like everyone and their grandmother were expecting him to” situation. Especially with that whole recent thing about Nintendo specifically going and telling their employees to get excited for Tales news, which is like the exact opposite of how they normally treat Smash stuff.

Anyway, this is all besides the thread’s point, everyone needs to go and follow the link in my last post to vote for Geno.
 

alemerltoucanet

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Really been wanting to do this, but I really wanted to explain why I've been predicting Lloyd, even if it is the Geno thread lol (sorry ha).
So, I kinda suck at doing this type of thing since I don't know how to word it or outline it, but I wanna start with us getting Joker revealed last year. I remember thinking, "oh hey its another SEGA rep" and at the time we were also speculating that a Square rep would be coming too. So I thought "okay, SEGA and Square, that means the other third parties in Smash, Capcom and Namco, would get DLC characters too, right?" And, no joke, my mind went straight to Lloyd. We had gotten the fan requested characters like Ridley and K. Rool, so I was thinking that he would come too as I know lots of people were wanting him. I also remember there being a PapaGenos video where he did mention that he heard from some source I think that they heard Lloyd?? So I kinda just stuck with that little info like "okay cool lol". Nobody really talked about it I don't think. Anyways, sticking with the whole, "Lloyd is likely" mindset I had, I did eventually factor in the whole Mii costume situation, and honestly just assumed that his costume wouldn't return cause I really just guessed that he'd be a fighter. I, too, also remember that Fatman comment from Dec. 1st last year and having my mind somehow going to Lloyd since it kinda fit my train of thought. Then earlier and stuff we had Lloyd's VA hinting at some project, the trademark renewal with the symbol, to us know thinking a Namco rep is coming (lol).

Sorry for the not related to Geno rambling, thought it'd be fun to type this cause uhhh yolo I guess?? Also sorry it's all over the place, it's like 3:00am for me I'm tired but also really wanted to do this while it was on my mind lol.
 

OffBi

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
877
Nope, none of the third party miis from Wii U were in ultimate at launch. Still no mention of Geno as well as Lloyd, Heihachi, and Gil, all Namco costumes.
Don't forget the monster hunter mii costumes and Megaman X and exe
 
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Missing Mii Costumes:

Bandai-Namco
  • Lloyd
  • Heihachi
  • Gil
Capcom
  • Megaman X
  • Megaman EXE
  • Hunter's Armour (MH)
  • Rathalos Set (MH)
Square-Enix
  • Geno
  • Chocobo Hat
That's pretty much our list. I still find it weird that X/EXE didn't come with the Zero Mii costume.
 
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