Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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well, so much for that nonsense. Back to square one, it seems.

In light of all the potential Geno hype (and to add my own positive energy into the pile o' wishes), how about ya'll have somethin' I just wrapped up finishing about ten minutes ago! This will be available as a print at Oni-Con in Galveston, for anyone who may just so happen to be going there. Hope you guys like this one!

Ahh, to finally contribute to the fanart pile.

View attachment 245751
This is pretty amazing, I must say!
 

RingJ5

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Well, there was a believable Palutena leak that floated around for half a year during Smash 4 (it turned out being fake). Eventually people just kinda forgot about it.
(if the above quote makes no sense in context with my reply, check the original message, the formatting messed up since they quoted themselves)

He’s #1 when it comes to Capcom characters, which is far more relevant in this scenario.

Like, for example, let’s consider Lloyd Irving. Lloyd is far, far from the most popular Bandai-Namco character in general right now(besides Pac-Man, who’s already in), with that honor most likely going to Chosen Undead, or for a named character, Solaire. Lloyd isn’t exactly guaranteed next in line, either, between competition like Agumon, the Prince of All Cosmos, Heihachi, and even Dig-Dug. When it comes to fan polls, he’s made generally worse showings than Phoenix across the board.

However, despite all that? A huge amount of people here consider him as the #1 candidate for the next Namco rep, including myself. Why? Because he’s had that specific history with Smash, being a known request for quite a while, and this absolutely does seem like the time where all of these big requests are being fulfilled. There are many requests more popular than Lloyd(Geno, Sora, Crash, Isaac, Shantae, and Doomguy, to name some recent ones) but there are no Namco requests larger than Lloyd, nor are there any Capcom requests larger than Phoenix.

I know that this isn’t exactly the best metric for this kind of thing, but it’s super-easy to track so I’m going to use it here as an example: Character support threads. Right now, Lloyd, the character that most(again, including me, regardless of what I’ve been saying this week about his FP5 chances I consider him practically inevitable for post-pass) consider as the most likely next Namco rep, is sitting quite well at 1,152 posts for Ultimate over two threads. Phoenix, on the other hand... is sitting at 2,663.

When you combine the threads of all four other Capcom reps in contention here(Leon, Jill, Dante, and Chris for good measure) you get... 901. Adding Ameratsu and MH to that total, you get... 1,201. Alright, how about we instead add literally every Capcom character that I could find an Ultimate character thread for besides Phoenix, and- oh. 1,404.

Yeah... when it comes to big Ultimate requests for Capcom characters, there’s really no one larger than Phoenix.
 
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I genuinely believe it's because people didn't consider him an option because he'd never been on a Nintendo console before, but once people realized that's not as big a deal, Dante's support shot up dramatically. That, as well as Smash, getting bigger. The series now appeals to an even wider audience of gamers and has become the best selling fighting game of all time. People that might not have grown up with Nintendo consoles or are new to gaming in general. As that happens, more varying character requests will appear that aren't usual compared to the traditional fanbase. That's why characters like Doom Slayer, Dante, Crash, Heavy, Reimu, etc. have increased in popularity.
I’ve grown up with Nintendo consoles and I am not new to gaming. And I want a majority of the characters you just mentioned.

Because this is practically a gaming hall of fame now, and I want to see my favorite franchises and characters join the battle and add to what is already an amazing crossover. (Which is why all of my most wanted picks are third party)
 
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So, we all know the amiibo theory, right? Where character DLC releases line up around the release of an amiibo wave. The next wave is Nov 15th and here came Terry a week earlier.

Well, the site updated the last 2 confirmed amiibos for Jan 17. So.....character 5 in January?
God I hope not. I don't think I could survive two months without an character reveal...
 
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I thought the entire Pass was due for February so wouldn't it make sense for said character to be released on that date then?
That was the plan at first but Sakurai said there were ahead of schedule so maybe they bumped up the dates or removed it since they confirmed more DLC.

Of course, as the amiibo theory has about a +/- 2 week span, they release character 5 after the amiibos on Feb 1 and still meet all criteria.
 
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Yeah, released. But you just said you couldn’t go two months without a reveal, as in the announcement of who the character is. That’s probably early next month.
I hope you're right. VGA or December 7th are a perfect time for that especially if its Doom Slayer (Fitting for the VGA) and Geno.
 

Herocin

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(if the above quote makes no sense in context with my reply, check the original message, the formatting messed up since they quoted themselves)

He’s #1 when it comes to Capcom characters, which is far more relevant in this scenario.

Like, for example, let’s consider Lloyd Irving. Lloyd is far, far from the most popular Bandai-Namco character in general right now(besides Pac-Man, who’s already in), with that honor most likely going to Chosen Undead, or for a named character, Solaire. Lloyd isn’t exactly guaranteed next in line, either, between competition like Agumon, the Prince of All Cosmos, Heihachi, and even Dig-Dug. When it comes to fan polls, he’s made generally worse showings than Phoenix across the board.

However, despite all that? A huge amount of people here consider him as the #1 candidate for the next Namco rep, including myself. Why? Because he’s had that specific history with Smash, being a known request for quite a while, and this absolutely does seem like the time where all of these big requests are being fulfilled. There are many requests more popular than Lloyd(Geno, Sora, Crash, Isaac, Shantae, and Doomguy, to name some recent ones) but there are no Namco requests larger than Lloyd, nor are there any Capcom requests larger than Phoenix.

I know that this isn’t exactly the best metric for this kind of thing, but it’s super-easy to track so I’m going to use it here as an example: Character support threads. Right now, Lloyd, the character that most(again, including me, regardless of what I’ve been saying this week about his FP5 chances I consider him practically inevitable for post-pass) consider as the most likely next Namco rep, is sitting quite well at 1,152 posts for Ultimate over two threads. Phoenix, on the other hand... is sitting at 2,663.

When you combine the threads of all four other Capcom reps in contention here(Leon, Jill, Dante, and Chris for good measure) you get... 901. Adding Ameratsu and MH to that total, you get... 1,201. Alright, how about we instead add literally every Capcom character that I could find an Ultimate character thread for besides Phoenix, and- oh. 1,404.

Yeah... when it comes to big Ultimate requests for Capcom characters, there’s really no one larger than Phoenix.
Not that I disagree with you but I think the only reason Phoenix thread has as many pages as it has was because it was started in 2013 and wasn't blocked after the end of DLC. Most other threads were blocked after I maybe wrong but I dunno
 

Neon05

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Well you're assuming quite a bit about Sakurai's mentality when it comes to why he chooses characters, including seemingly seeking out a company instead of a character, which I think is the opposite of how things actually play out (except maybe with SNK, just given how he treated it as a unit). I mean Sakurai is always on about character legacy and series history, not company info (again, except with SNK).

But putting that aside, my point is... I don't think Phoenix is popular enough to be a popular inclusion. He's no Sonic or Mega Man or Banjo. Or Ridley or K. Rool. Or Geno. The characters that get in solely due to popularity are like... top three popularity picks. Not someone who maybe rounds out the top fifteen.

Perhaps if Sakurai was working with limited options like with Castlevania, or... idk... he was buddies with the creator like Snake. Or maybe he's just a big fan of AA. But popularity is not something I'd chalk up his addition to, at least not by itself.



Do you guys think Mega Man had "a little more demand" than Ryu? I was talking about Phoenix Wright. Mega Man was probably the most requested character for Smash 4. I consider that more than a little. My point is that those are the kind of characters who get in due to demand, not those who can't crack the top ten, like Phoenix. At that point, that's when Sakurai will just defer to big series, like Ryu's.
Phoenix Wright may not have the most fan demand, but he is the most requested out of all the Capcom reps. It’s always a possibility that Phoenix Wright will be chosen over Resident Evil. You’ll never know, geez
 
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I hope you're right. VGA or December 7th are a perfect time for that especially if its Doom Slayer (Fitting for the VGA) and Geno.
We are also all assuming that the next reveal must be character 5 and not the Post FP character. Sakurai could do what he wants and change the order, but we don't know how rigid they are in scheduling, like if all FP characters must done first for the numbering system and a bonus non echo character can't go inbetween.

IF they decided to do reveals on Ultimate's anniversary AND the VGAs, hype logic would have Geno first on Ultimate's release in a Nintendo video upload for the specific Smash audience and Doom Marine at the VGAs for the more general audience exposure. But this messes up the number order and drives OCD crazy. If the dates were reversed, it would be perfect.
 
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SpiritOfRuin

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Phoenix Wright may not have the most fan demand, but he is the most requested out of all the Capcom reps. It’s always a possibility that Phoenix Wright will be chosen over Resident Evil. You’ll never know, geez
Yeah plus now with Sakurai essentially saying fun to play > relevancy a RE rep is practically dead in the water. I would love a RE rep but let's face it, sure they could make the rep unique in ways like resource management and stuff but I really don't think they would end up being as fun to play as someone like Phoenix or Amaterasu. But who knows? Sakurai clearly doesn't think the way I do so maybe he would think certain things would be a lot of fun about a RE rep and still go with them so they have the relevancy and fun playstyle. Sakurai could give anything a fun playstyle so I'm not really sweating it or trying too hard to lean towards any one character based on the fun to play > relevancy argument since it's so subjective.
 

RingJ5

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Not that I disagree with you but I think the only reason Phoenix thread has as many pages as it has was because it was started in 2013 and wasn't blocked after the end of DLC. Most other threads were blocked after I maybe wrong but I dunno
It’s weird, the first post is from 2013, but the second onwards is from 2017. Either literally no one posted in it for half a decade, or it was cleared. Anyway, to finally get us back to talking about Geno...

I hope you're right. VGA or December 7th are a perfect time for that especially if its Doom Slayer (Fitting for the VGA) and Geno.
It’d probably never happen due to Geno’s relative obscurity, but I’d absolutely love to see a full-on double-reveal trailer for them.

Imagine if it calls back to the Ridley trailer and it turns out that Samus, Mario and Mega Man were actually there to investigate one of the DOOM teleporters before Ridley attacked. Just as Samus is almost defeated, it starts powering up and out pops Slayer(what I think Smash will call him), who makes short work of Ridley... only to be followed by a bunch of demons. A short gameplay trailer plays, and then cut to the four of them(Mario, Mega Man, Samus, Slayer) outside in a Mars-like environment fighting off a huge horde of demons, while a star starts to watch from high up in the sky.

Seeing that they’re getting overwhelmed, the star starts racing towards the planet until it crashes down right near them and destroys a bunch of the demons in a huge flash of light, leaving the four fighters totally unscathed. The light dissipates, and Geno(who’s already in doll form because... why not, this is Smash) is seen by the four in the middle of a crater with Mario instantly recognizing him, as he and Slayer team up with their guns as his gameplay trailer plays. Slayer releases January 2020, Geno releases Spring 2020.
 
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Rohanx17

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First of all we really need to let Phoenix and any other fan base for that matter stand up for themselves this really isn't the place to go into a multi page debate about his case for smash. Though I'll add that Lloyd isn't a good example because he's getting in due being a tales protagonist and sakurai's openly admitted pick for one, otherwise no one would give him the time of day.

Second I find it hilarious sabi considers himself a transparent journalist. All of this dramatic nonsense started when he seemingly got a stranglehold on all the insiders. Before everything real or no was released in unambiguous text dumps,and the occasional vid or pic from an anonymous. No strange photos, no teases of constantly withheld information, and no weird stuff like the brew/jonsey fiasco. If sabi's afraid of the CD then fine hell I would be to, but Christ just drop out and pass on the mantle or have someone else publicly unrelated drop the news for you. I'm sure vergeben would hack off his index to become relevant again. Thanks for sitting through this, really needed to get that rant out.
 
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If you ACTUALLY think that Let's Go Down the Wine River doesn't feel like it would feel perfect with a little Yoko TLC touch-up and thrown into Smash...

Say sike rite now.


Also, finishing that big-azz post. It's a morale-boosting doozy that you can toss at people who seemingly don't want Geno.
I would love it! Were it not for square seemingly only allowing two tracks per game.

Looking forward to your post
 
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So if you guys are wondering (you're not but oh well), while finishing that post I'm also adding canon SMRPG tracks into my playlist that has a bunch of SMRPG remixes. I figure we might as well listen to and celebrate the reason why there is so much fan music as well as the fan music. So I've been adding some more tracks and basically adding GilvaSunner's playlist to this one...and I hit Geno Awakens...

Man, it hits me right in the heart. I swear, if it plays at all after that satisfying 'schink' sound and the zoom in, I may actually need a Pick-Me-Up to function after that reveal.
 

Rohanx17

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So I've been curious about sakurai's mindset for song selection. We keep hearing that they need to be battle music or somthing and that's why some of the selection seems a bit strange on the surface or in banjos case gets almost entirely rewritten, but there is SO much music in smash that doesn't fit that in the slightest. Like I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously when the main theme for hanenbow is what it is. I just wish they would leave more of the music alone the original usually sounded better to me so at the very least they should release them both.
 
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Dang, I'm super active today!

So I found something very interesting!

Lots of people are talking about how Treasure Trove Cove was the perfect remix for Yoko to make because of Destiny Islands theme (which, by the by, both the original and 1.5 are GODLY) but it's funny how you can tell her music even with generational gaps.

So I'm going to have three videos in spoilers. The first one is Sunken Ship from SMRPG. The second is Captain Hook's Pirate Ship from KH1 and the third is the same but from KH1.5 Remix.


You can tell they are completely different songs, but they also feel so similar in just such an uncanny way. I was just listening to Sunken Ship and I paused it because my head was playing a different song and I was like 'Wait, that's not Sunken Ship? What the hell is this son-WAIT, THAT'S CAPTAIN HOOK'S SHIP! WHY DOES THE AIR AROUND THEM FEEL SO UNGODLY UNCANNY?!'

It's moments like these that make me so happen I was genuinely attracted to so many games that Yoko did the music for, like Street Fighter 2, SMRPG and Kingdom Hearts.
 
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AdamBel731

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Do you all think a Capcom or Bandai Namco rep is more likely (I think both could happen, I'm just asking if you had to pick only one).

I'm very conflicted on the issue, because while Capcom's characters are more highly requested, Bandai Namco seems pretty overdue for a rep.
 

Rikarte

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Do you all think a Capcom or Bandai Namco rep is more likely (I think both could happen, I'm just asking if you had to pick only one).

I'm very conflicted on the issue, because while Capcom's characters are more highly requested, Bandai Namco seems pretty overdue for a rep.
Considering that the Heihachi Mii outfit didn't show along all the other fighting game costumes I'm gonna bet my money on Namco.
Sakurai's comments about PAC-MAN were a little suspicious too.
 

RingJ5

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Do you all think a Capcom or Bandai Namco rep is more likely (I think both could happen, I'm just asking if you had to pick only one).

I'm very conflicted on the issue, because while Capcom's characters are more highly requested, Bandai Namco seems pretty overdue for a rep.
Not as #5 unless it’s very specifically a Dark Souls or Digimon rep for new company representation, but in general, absolutely. I fully expect post-pass to have one of each.

But if I had to choose between them, it’d be Namco purely due to numbers, since Capcom has two and an echo while Namco only has one.
 
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AdamBel731

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Considering that the Heihachi Mii outfit didn't show along all the other fighting game costumes I'm gonna bet my money on Namco.
Sakurai's comments about PAC-MAN were a little suspicious too.
Yeah, Sakurai's recent comments definitely made me raise an eyebrow. But I can't help but wonder if Sakurai would add Heihachi or not. I mean 0 disrespect towards him and his fans (I'd be find with him since I know Tekken is a big deal in the fighting game space), but with Sakurai's recent comments about having the character be fun, and his inability to come up with a moveset in Smash 4, I have to wonder if Sakurai would rather pick someone like Lloyd or Nightmare (Soul Calibur). Because, what if Sakurai thinks they have a more interesting moveset + their popularity.

I know Sakurai has gone back on his stance on characters, and I'm not saying Heihachi can't make it in, but I just wonder due to other Bandai Namco characters presenting Sakurai a more interesting toolkit.
 

Herocin

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Do you all think a Capcom or Bandai Namco rep is more likely (I think both could happen, I'm just asking if you had to pick only one).

I'm very conflicted on the issue, because while Capcom's characters are more highly requested, Bandai Namco seems pretty overdue for a rep.
Bamco I think is likely Heihachi specifically. I used to think Capcom was a shoo in for 4 but not only did it never happen but technically Capcom have three unique newcomers. Despite the fact that Ken is an echo he has 6 unique attacks, different speed etc so he should really be classed as a semi clone and as Capcom have enough reps I think it's probably not going to happen
 
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Rohanx17

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I think both are going to happen at some point but bamco is the only one I expect to see in a reasonable time frame. I was already expecting heihachi to no show at Terry because it makes more sense for the VF costumes to release together and that leaves Lloyd 2 for his release.
 
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Rikarte

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Yeah, Sakurai's recent comments definitely made me raise an eyebrow. But I can't help but wonder if Sakurai would add Heihachi or not. I mean 0 disrespect towards him and his fans (I'd be find with him since I know Tekken is a big deal in the fighting game space), but with Sakurai's recent comments about having the character be fun, and his inability to come up with a moveset in Smash 4, I have to wonder if Sakurai would rather pick someone like Lloyd or Nightmare (Soul Calibur). Because, what if Sakurai thinks they have a more interesting moveset + their popularity.

I know Sakurai has gone back on his stance on characters, and I'm not saying Heihachi can't make it in, but I just wonder due to other Bandai Namco characters presenting Sakurai a more interesting toolkit.
I mean Heihachi could still return as a Mii costume along another Bamco character. Lloyd has been speculated a lot but I don't think FP5 is gonna be yet another RPG character. Maybe Agumon? Who knows.

Bamco I think is likely Heihachi specifically. I used to think Capcom was a shoo in for 4 but not only did it never happen but technically Capcom have three unique newcomers. Despite the fact that Ken is an echo he has 6 unique attacks, different speed etc so he should really be classed as a semi clone and as Capcom have enough reps I think it's probably not going to happen
But Capcom only got Ken this game? Besides, who says a company can only have a certain amount of fighters in Smash? Capcom in particular has such a huge library of iconic games, they could probably fill an entire pass with just their characters.
 

Datboigeno

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Thread was on fire last night, now it's so slow. Have some artwork I found. Don't know the name of the artist or I'd credit them.
(P.S. always credit your artists if you can) View attachment 245776
I love seeing Geno drawn in art styles that are very different than the typical Mario aesthetic

C3AFB071-4693-4B3D-BCCF-2F4B9215F368.png
 

Herocin

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I mean Heihachi could still return as a Mii costume along another Bamco character. Lloyd has been speculated a lot but I don't think FP5 is gonna be yet another RPG character. Maybe Agumon? Who knows.


But Capcom only got Ken this game? Besides, who says a company can only have a certain amount of fighters in Smash? Capcom in particular has such a huge library of iconic games, they could probably fill an entire pass with just their characters.
Yeah I could list the characters they could use there are way more than a single fighters pass from new franchises alone
Morrigan, Phoenix, Dante. Leon, Sir Arthur, Amaterasu etc etc but imo it seems they want third parties present in base game to have at most 3 characters each. That may be the reason joker was chosen over someone like Shadow. My own speculation obviously
 

Firox

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Morning all. So to catch up:

A) How did we get on the topic of Phoenix Wright? Was there a recent leak or something? If not, moving on...

B) Based on that most recent tweet by Sabi, it looks like she and VRplant know who's coming now. I don't like the phrase "tempering expectations", but then again, it could mean virtually anything. Even if fighter #5 isn't Geno or Doomslayer, as long as we don't see Geno's, Mallow's or the demon's costumes appear, then there's no reason they can't be in fighters pass #2. What are your thoughts?

PS I hate this "play coy" BS that the insiders do with hinting that they know something but circlejerk around giving us anything solid. If you know something and can say something, just ****ing say it. If you know something but can't say anything, just shut the hell up and stop pining for attention. In Fatman's case, I at least give him credit that he never jerks us around with teases and just says outright that he either doesn't know or can't offer anything.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Considering that the Heihachi Mii outfit didn't show along all the other fighting game costumes I'm gonna bet my money on Namco.
Sakurai's comments about PAC-MAN were a little suspicious too.
What did Sakurai say about Pac-Man exactly?

Do you all think a Capcom or Bandai Namco rep is more likely (I think both could happen, I'm just asking if you had to pick only one).

I'm very conflicted on the issue, because while Capcom's characters are more highly requested, Bandai Namco seems pretty overdue for a rep.
I don't know about another Capcom rep, but for sure Namco Bandai getting another character in this game is a given.

Morning all. So to catch up:

A) How did we get on the topic of Phoenix Wright? Was there a recent leak or something? If not, moving on...

B) Based on that most recent tweet by Sabi, it looks like she and VRplant know who's coming now. I don't like the phrase "tempering expectations", but then again, it could mean virtually anything. Even if fighter #5 isn't Geno or Doomslayer, as long as we don't see Geno's, Mallow's or the demon's costumes appear, then there's no reason they can't be in fighters pass #2. What are your thoughts?
No leaked showed up, we were just talking about potential Capcom characters to be this game's Capcom rep that's all.
 
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T2by4

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Morning all. So to catch up:

A) How did we get on the topic of Phoenix Wright? Was there a recent leak or something? If not, moving on...

B) Based on that most recent tweet by Sabi, it looks like she and VRplant know who's coming now. I don't like the phrase "tempering expectations", but then again, it could mean virtually anything. Even if fighter #5 isn't Geno or Doomslayer, as long as we don't see Geno's, Mallow's or the demon's costumes appear, then there's no reason they can't be in fighters pass #2. What are your thoughts?
I genuinely think there's going to be a double reveal. Those mii costumes for doom demon and mallow looked pretty much complete. I believe if geno is getting in, it's gonna be a double reveal at the VGA's after Doomguy.
 
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