Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

When he said 10 characters, is he talking about 10 total characters including the fighters Pass?

 

[T2by4]

When he said 10 characters, is he talking about 10 total characters including the fighters Pass?

Excluding plant, but including the pass. So 5 from the fighters pass, and 5 after.

 

[Deleted member]

Excluding plant, but including the pass. So 5 from the fighters pass, and 5 after.

That would definitely fit another Fighters Pass. Was there anything else the Brew guy told you?

 

[T2by4]

That would definitely fit another Fighters Pass. Was there anything else the Brew guy told you?

Nope.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Knowing that there would be 10 DLC characters before the game even launched raises some red flags. Sakurai mentioned back in the Banjo presentation (which was filmed in July-ish IIRC?) that it felt like the finish line was being moved further away, which would be a weird thing to say if he already knew how many fighters would be developed. The same goes for the way they unceremoniously announced the post-FP characters after Terry's reveal; why do it then?

Hopefully we'll have a clearer picture of everything after Terry gets released, but right now I'm skeptical.

 

[Deleted member]

Knowing that there would be 10 DLC characters before the game even launched raises some red flags. Sakurai mentioned back in the Banjo presentation (which was filmed in July-ish IIRC?) that it felt like the finish line was being moved further away, which would be a weird thing to say if he already knew how many fighters would be developed. The same goes for the way they unceremoniously announced the post-FP characters after Terry's reveal; why do it then?

Hopefully we'll have a clearer picture of everything after Terry gets released, but right now I'm skeptical.

Hmm, should of thought about that...

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

The better question is whether or not they heard 10 and were confident in it or if that was just a rumor at first.

 

[wynn728]

You're the only person calling Nintendo series trash. Saying they are less enticing in the current circumstance does not mean that Nintendo characters are trash or bad. X not getting into Smash as a playable character does not mean that X is bad and you have got to break yourself of this mindset. Not everybody can be playable in Smash and not every character that isn't playable, is not playable because of some inherent judgment on their quality. It's such a closed off mindset to even look at character selection from and I don't understand how you just consistently arrive at these same conclusions. A =/= B does not allow you to say that A = Z.

Xenoblade didn't survive because of Smash, it survived because a whole bunch of dedicated fans put together a giant operation to convince Nintendo to localize it and bought the game. Being in Smash didn't hurt it, but I'm not letting you take away what people put tons of effort into and the commitment Nintendo made to Xenoblade regardless of Smash (X came out right after Smash 4 and didn't sell amazing, but then 2 sold considerably better without any Smash cross promotion).

Fire Emblem is once again this stupidly specific set of circumstances and is legitimately the only time Smash has genuinely been critical in the continuation of a series. Punch-Out (Wii) doesn't have a sequel despite Little Mac getting in 4. Ice Climbers have never come back outside of Smash. Despite Lucas being a really popular Smash fighter, we still can't get an official localization of Mother 3. Captain Falcon being in Smash has not resulted in F-Zero continuing on. Pit only got a new game because Sakurai went all in on a new Kid Icarus, and has not been seen since. Banjo & Kazooie aren't even being capitalized on beyond Rare Replay. Being in Smash is far from some promise of a future for a character, and most of the evidence is to the contrary.

Nintendo is currently in a position where they don't really need to strengthen their brand with Smash promotions of characters. They have plenty of successful titles already that they can reliably count on and frequently push for innovative new titles on their own anyway. The Nintendo fans are already all playing Smash and a **** load of their other games anyway, so Smash can serve as a product to introduce new people to their IPs and their console at this point. I guarantee most of the population who played ARMS plays or has played Ultimate, I would not say the same for those who played Persona 5 or King of Fighters or Dragon Quest. That's not to say you can't appeal to people who play Nintendo games, but it explains why the thought process is so prevalent in Nintendo's decision making. Big names mean big headlines that mean continued success of a product, and this particular product already basically represents everything major Nintendo has to offer outside of a couple of specific additions. It strengthens their brand by continually attracting more people, and Nintendo cares way ****ing more about their overall brand than they do most of the specifics franchises in that brand, particularly the lower selling and more niche ones. Again, that's not to say there isn't a place for Nintendo characters, but it makes sense to see them as lower priority at this point given how much Sakurai has already achieved in representing Nintendo in the base game and how Nintendo have actively stated they want to use Smash as a launching point for people into their recognizable brands. A new player to Golden Sun for example might be worth a bit, but a brand new fan to the Switch and let's say, Mario games in general, has so much value to them (in addition to the fact that many of these third parties also please tons of people already playing).

Third parties don't have to feel special anymore. I don't get why that matters if they do or don't, they still attract huge headlines and excite millions of players.

And again, with Plant, you've repeated this same sentiment ad naseum and it still rings hollow every time. Piranha Plant was created to be different and fill a specific niche with players. You were not the target of that niche and constantly throwing a tantrum about how Plant stole your character's slot comes off as immature. Sakurai didn't tell you your favorite characters not in the game were trash, he told you that he was making something for someone besides you. You actively do more harm for character support when you act like this if I'm being brutally honest because of how entitled and consistently hostile it comes off as.

Jeezums this is bloody long.

First of all the reason why I have that mindset is because nearly everyone, whether they admit it or not, has that mindset in some degree; I'm just more blunt about it. Once a character gets deconfirm as an Assist Trophy or whatever you'll see nothing but hate & ridicule for that character. We saw it with Ashley, we saw it with Isaac, we saw it with Waluigi, and we all saw it with Geno. This community will deem characters as trash and in turn not worth being in Smash Bros and not worth people's time at all. We all seen the hate artwork that goes around after deconfirmation, we all seen that video of Piranha Plant laughing at all the characters that aren't making it in. That's what this community is about, and notice how nobody talks about characters like Ashley & Isaac anymore. They use to have a lot of support and now with more DLC happening nobody is putting the effort of talking about them getting a second chance. Why? Because people think they're trash.

Yes, Xenoblade had the fan support, but Smash Bros was a good way to introduce people to the series which got people more interested in the series. Without it I doubt that Xenoblade 2 would've done just as good. It was a passionate fanbase that helped it continue, but notice how the other two series (The Last Story & Pandora's Tower) aren't getting anything any time soon.

Smash Bros does help series grow, which was the main reason why Liminary from DQXI got in Smash Bros. Since the only ones who have full knowledge of if Smash Bros has an effect for sales of other series would be Nintendo and they seem to agree that is the case since they're going all in with Dragon Quest (notice how any time they mention DQXI S they mention Smash, and they mentioned Smash Bros again for Samus Returns as well).

As for those series you mention all I have to say is this:
Punch-Out got a game on the Wii when Little Mac was an Assist Trophy and just about any series that got represented as an Assist Trophy is usually a death sentence for the series (just like how Golden Sun & Starfy got new entries after Brawl and they ended up flopping), plus Punch-Out on the Wii had Little Mac retiring so they either felt that they went as much as they could with the series or it just didn't sell well.
Ice Climbers were brought in for the retro rep with them most like not having any desire to bring them back.
Mother 3 haven't been released outside of Japan, but because of Smash Bros introducing Lucas people continue asking for Mother 3 to be localized.
F-Zero is a Miyamoto thing, but Smash Bros kept it alive for people to ask for another entry more often than other series like Golden Sun.
We got Kid Icarus Uprising because of Smash Bros, but we're not getting another one since Sakurai & his team are working on Smash Bros. Nintendo is pretty consistent with have the same people working on their respective series, like Aonuma with Zelda and Miyamoto with Pikmin.

Like you say, everyone who played ARMS played Smash Bros but not everyone who played Smash Bros played ARMS. Sure Nintendo has great strength with the current titles they have, but they need to grow more new titles and try to strengthen their old titles for more variety. However the best way to do that is with Smash Bros. Smash Bros get people talking, no matter what the subject is. It's a way to strengthen and reinforce a series, which is why the entire Dragon Quest fandom begged for one of their character to get into Smash Bros. Put Nintendo own titles on an extreme low priority for inclusion will make those series struggle a lot more to stay relevant since Nintendo's only real big success that didn't require Smash was Splatoon. Same can't be said for ARMS, that's a series with one leg in the ground since it couldn't keep engagement up. So without Smash Bros the ARMS series will most likely just end up like Chibi Robo, forget and not cared for.

Also look, there's a lot of characters that got added that I don't care about, but I wouldn't trade either one of them. Piranha Plant would've been alright but just like Sakurai said "we got limited time & resources so don't expect too many characters." If there can't be that many character then maybe, just maybe, they should fill all those slot with characters that people have been asking for with that Smash Ballot. Instead of doing that Sakurai & his team sat down and go through all the available characters they can use they chose Piranha Plant over many requested characters and still have the DLC be filled with characters that people weren't really asking for; and with DLC most likely continue being third party means that those requested characters will not have their chances ever. Sure Sakurai might not have intended people to think these characters are trash or the Piranha Plant was suppose to be a big FU to all the fans who's requested characters got turn into Assist Trophies, but that's how it's interpreted for many. You can try and say something that wasn't meant to be harmful and it can still be interpreted as being harmful. If this is how it ends, with every character that gets added to Smash Bros being third party and we can't get a single Nintendo character added there's not many ways to interpret that than "what we have available is all crap."

I rather Piranha Plant be replaced with a fan requested character that I personally don't like. I don't like Banjo but glad he's in for the fans. All Piranha Plant have done was have fans celebrate that other characters got screwed. Sakurai wanted to do something wacky, but there were many better choices that would fill that role besides Piranha Plant. I would love to put it behind me, but with Ryu Hayabusa potential being our fifth fighter everything is coming clear that they don't like any of the fan requested characters since ever since Incineroar got reveal the only requested character that got in was just Banjo.

 

[Deleted member]

When they say "boyo", they were reffering to Geno. After looking back, they seemed confident that Geno was POSSIBLY coming, but knew that DQ was coming first and that 10 dlc characters are absolutely happening

I felt like he was LARP'ing at the time, and maybe he still is and just got really lucky. Who knows. I felt like we would've gotten Geno a while back if he heard of him waaaay back in October/November last year. These messages were on November 4th 2018.

alright, I know I was critical of this guy earlier but *wow*.

 

[Ovaltine]

alright, I know I was critical of this guy earlier but *wow*.

Yeah, I really doubt this means anything. Then again, Verge did hear Geno's name before, too, but it was only to be told that he wasn't the Square rep in the FP (which is true, as that was Hero). The fact that Geno's name keeps getting whispered fascinates me, though, and I know Sabi's old NoA source heard Geno back in November, too, right? It was still as a maybe, though.

 

[SAMation]

i think piranha plant is a cool character, character spots can exist without being fan requested. else we wouldnt get cool characters in the game we have now like Game & Watch, ROB, and Wii Fit Trainer

i am not biased

 

[wynn728]

I honestly have to back up @EricTheGamerman on this one. You are being immature. This mindset that Piranha Plant should get all this scorn just because characters you wanted didn't get in is frankly insulting when Sakurai has given us so much. I definitely am not saying that you can't criticize Sakurai (no one is perfect), but you're just complaining and continue to view Piranha Plant as Nintendo saying all of their characters not included are trash. Where do you get that from? I want Bandana Dee so so soooo much, but I am by no means saying Piranha Plant is satan's spawn just because things didn't go my way. I am just grateful that a man is willing to go to work with an IV just to try and make his passion project the best it can.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I am completely content with the roster. And I don't say that because my most wanted are in. That's why I'm cool with Geno and want him even though I have 0 attachment to him. I'm rooting for you guys because you guys have waited. What happens if Geno doesn't get in? Will you be thinking Piranha Plant "stole" Geno's spot and that you view your character's absence as justification for crapping on Piranha Plant constantly? If so, then I don't want Geno in. That is the definition of entitlement. We have over 80 characters and growing, over 100 stages and growing... we have so so sooooo much. Sure maybe some places in the roster aren't the best (like Fire Emblem), but I have a genuinely hard time really being super upset because we have so much. Geno fans should be lucky because what if this Fighters Pass was all with no more DLC? I would feel bad if he didn't get in, but I would HOPE that his fans would be mature enough to not let his absence ruin the entire game. Because I'd have major issues with that.

I'm done with my rant, but you seriously need to readjust your mindset. I'm in this thread as someone who isn't even a Geno fan, I just want you all to be happy. Genuinely, you've all waited a while. But when there are people like you saying things like you've been saying, it makes me not want to be around here all too much.

First of all, never once did I say I hate Piranha Plant because a character I wanted didn't get in. I said other people's requested characters. I rather have someone else's request character that I don't care about have gotten in instead of Piranha Plant so it could've made some other people happy that they got their most wanted.

Second, I don't have to like a character or a decision just because it's in the product and made by Sakurai. We're all allowed to think what we want.

Third, just because I complain about something doesn't mean I hate the game. I love Ultimate and it's roster, but just because I'm upset over an aspect that sticks out like a sore thumb doesn't mean I'm disappointed with the whole product. People are allowed to feel upset without others telling them they shouldn't, because that trying to force an opinion on someone else.

There's a lot of characters that I wanted that got screwed over, but never once have I ever said "this ruined the game." You can go through all my comments and you never see me say "Smash Bros is ruined because Piranha Plant is in.

You're not upset if you don't get your most wanted character, well good for you. But know this, it's not "entitlement" to be disappointed with how things turned out, it's not "entitlement" for hating a character, it's called an opinion. I'm sure a lot of us are going to be disappointed that Geno didn't make it in, but not one of is going to say "we hate this game now."

 

[Nemuresu]

First of all the reason why I have that mindset is because nearly everyone, whether they admit it or not, has that mindset in some degree; I'm just more blunt about it. Once a character gets deconfirm as an Assist Trophy or whatever you'll see nothing but hate & ridicule for that character. We saw it with Ashley, we saw it with Isaac, we saw it with Waluigi, and we all saw it with Geno. This community will deem characters as trash and in turn not worth being in Smash Bros and not worth people's time at all. We all seen the hate artwork that goes around after deconfirmation, we all seen that video of Piranha Plant laughing at all the characters that aren't making it in. That's what this community is about, and notice how nobody talks about characters like Ashley & Isaac anymore. They use to have a lot of support and now with more DLC happening nobody is putting the effort of talking about them getting a second chance. Why? Because people think they're trash.

Oh sure, it's not like we didn't see stuff like "Waluigi fans harass Sakurai," "HAHA! Grinch is inevitable!" or "DQ fans get out of my thread!" now, did we? Say whatever you want about this problematic, but what happened with those fandoms wasn't a thing of innocent people being mocked.

Yes, Xenoblade had the fan support, but Smash Bros was a good way to introduce people to the series which got people more interested in the series. Without it I doubt that Xenoblade 2 would've done just as good. It was a passionate fanbase that helped it continue, but notice how the other two series (The Last Story & Pandora's Tower) aren't getting anything any time soon.

Shulk was introduced in Smash 4, a Wii U game, not a Switch game. If any game could've benefitted from Shulk's inclusion that was Xenoblade X, but we all know how that story went as with most Wii U titles out there. The fact that Xeno 2 existed just shows Smash had nothing to do with the IP's popularity.

Smash Bros does help series grow, which was the main reason why Liminary from DQXI got in Smash Bros. Since the only ones who have full knowledge of if Smash Bros has an effect for sales of other series would be Nintendo and they seem to agree that is the case since they're going all in with Dragon Quest (notice how any time they mention DQXI S they mention Smash, and they mentioned Smash Bros again for Samus Returns as well).

It didn't work like that. We know well from Sakurai that he prioritizes recency, as we've seen with characters like Greninja and Incineroar. By the time Hero was announced, DQXI was already available on PS4 and PC and ir sold well on both, so the only thing that got a "promotion" was the Switch port, not the series in general.

Punch-Out got a game on the Wii when Little Mac was an Assist Trophy and just about any series that got represented as an Assist Trophy is usually a death sentence for the series (just like how Golden Sun & Starfy got new entries after Brawl and they ended up flopping), plus Punch-Out on the Wii had Little Mac retiring so they either felt that they went as much as they could with the series or it just didn't sell well.

If including an Assist Trophy in Smash meant anything to the original IPs, we would've had some kind of Golden Sun or Starfy games right now, but that's not the case at all.

Ice Climbers were brought in for the retro rep with them most like not having any desire to bring them back.

They came from an era where Smash was still growing as a franchise rather than being the behemoth that it is today.

Mother 3 haven't been released outside of Japan, but because of Smash Bros introducing Lucas people continue asking for Mother 3 to be localized.

And Nintendo still hasn't listened to requests. Not to mention, Lucas was planned all the way back to Melee, but because of the development hell that Mother 3 went through for years, he had to be kept in the low burner.

F-Zero is a Miyamoto thing, but Smash Bros kept it alive for people to ask for another entry more often than other series like Golden Sun.

I'll refer to my last statement about Nintendo.

We got Kid Icarus Uprising because of Smash Bros, but we're not getting another one since Sakurai & his team are working on Smash Bros. Nintendo is pretty consistent with have the same people working on their respective series, like Aonuma with Zelda and Miyamoto with Pikmin.

Uprising existed because Sakurai was interested in doing a new entry for it. And even then, he said we won't see a new KI for another 20 years or so, and if Nintendo had any objections we wouldn't have heard Sakurai denying the possibility of a Switch port.

Put Nintendo own titles on an extreme low priority for inclusion will make those series struggle a lot more to stay relevant since Nintendo's only real big success that didn't require Smash was Splatoon. Same can't be said for ARMS, that's a series with one leg in the ground since it couldn't keep engagement up. So without Smash Bros the ARMS series will most likely just end up like Chibi Robo, forget and not cared for.

ARMs struggling? That doesn't make sense considering that it was the best-selling fighting game in Japan (beating the likes of SFV and DBFZ) and that it sold already 2 million copies by the end of 2018.

Truly destined to being forgotten, am I right?

Ryu Hayabusa potential being our fifth fighter everything is coming clear that they don't like any of the fan requested characters since ever since Incineroar got reveal the only requested character that got in was just Banjo.

No. Their priority was to simply expand Smash's roster by throwing more third-party IPs into it, which isn't surprising at all considering the franchise's status as "the biggest crossover in entertainment".

 

[wynn728]

Oh sure, it's not like we didn't see stuff like "Waluigi fans harass Sakurai," "HAHA! Grinch is inevitable!" or "DQ fans get out of my thread!" now, did we? Say whatever you want about this problematic, but what happened with those fandoms wasn't a thing of innocent people being mocked.

Every group is obnoxious and have terrible people in them, but ever group is also mocked like Ashley and Bandana Dee even if they did nothing. You'll find terrible people everywhere.

Shulk was introduced in Smash 4, a Wii U game, not a Switch game. If any game could've benefitted from Shulk's inclusion that was Xenoblade X, but we all know how that story went as with most Wii U titles out there. The fact that Xeno 2 existed just shows Smash had nothing to do with the IP's popularity.

Smash Bros did help the series grow more, didn't save it but it help paved the way.

It didn't work like that. We know well from Sakurai that he prioritizes recency, as we've seen with characters like Greninja and Incineroar. By the time Hero was announced, DQXI was already available on PS4 and PC and ir sold well on both, so the only thing that got a "promotion" was the Switch port, not the series in general.

With Hero we got three different version of the characters from three different games, and then they released the first three Dragon Quest on Switch not that long ago. The person in charge of Dragon Quest said they wanted the series to perform better in the west and Nintendo was trying to help out by using Hero in Smash Bros to promote the series and for people to get Dragon Quest XI S.

If including an Assist Trophy in Smash meant anything to the original IPs, we would've had some kind of Golden Sun or Starfy games right now, but that's not the case at all.

Did you forget about how after Brawl releases we got Starfy on the DS that sold terribly and Golden Sun Dark Dawn which also sold terribly? Both game which killed the series.

And Nintendo still hasn't listened to requests. Not to mention, Lucas was planned all the way back to Melee, but because of the development hell that Mother 3 went through for years, he had to be kept in the low burner.

And people aren't giving up.

Uprising existed because Sakurai was interested in doing a new entry for it. And even then, he said we won't see a new KI for another 20 years or so, and if Nintendo had any objections we wouldn't have heard Sakurai denying the possibility of a Switch port.

Yes, Sakurai had interest in a new entry, which is why he include Pit in Brawl with a redesign. So Smash Bros helped Kid Icarus come back.

ARMs struggling? That doesn't make sense considering that it was the best-selling fighting game in Japan (beating the likes of SFV and DBFZ) and that it sold already 2 million copies by the end of 2018.

Truly destined to being forgotten, am I right?

I agreed ARMS sold well, but engagement dropped really quickly which isn't good for an online game. It didn't have the staying power like Splatoon which is probably why support for ARMS dropped really quickly. And remember, ARMS was released in Year 1 of the Switch and they were releasing on a monthly basis so it had the benefit of there not being much available. Sure in terms of sales it didn't struggle, but there is more to than just sales when it comes to a future of the series and I think most don't believe ARMS actually has a future.

Remember there suppose to be a comic series of ARMS that was suppose to release the first issue in Fall 2018 but got delayed to January 2019... and it's October right now with no other news about it since May 2018.

No. Their priority was to simply expand Smash's roster by throwing more third-party IPs into it, which isn't surprising at all considering the franchise's status as "the biggest crossover in entertainment".

So I guess all the other Nintendo series aren't important enough to be added in seeing how the only new Nintendo title that got in was Splatoon and that's it.

 

[waterhasataste]

So I guess all the other Nintendo series aren't important enough to be added in seeing how the only new Nintendo title that got in was Splatoon and that's it.

Nintendo is more than covered in Smash. All there major players are already in the game. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Kirby, etc. Like they have a ton of representation already. It's not that they aren't important, it's that they already have there big franchises and names already represented in the game

 

[TheCJBrine]

Reminder that it was just two people who sent weird stuff to Sakurai because of Waluigi. Obnoxious people tend to be the minority from my experience even if they’re still annoying.

And if it’s okay to generalize an entire fanbase and mock every fan from it because of that, then the Smash fanbase is a laughing stock.

 

[StarLight42]

I made a new half predictions/half wishlist Smash roster! Would you be satisfied with this line up?

Going by the rules of the Brew Leak

1. Ryu Hayabusa ends the Fighter's Pass
2. Geno in DLC 2
3. All future DLC characters are third party

 

[BoyMan]

View attachment 242395

I made a new half predictions/half wishlist Smash roster! Would you be satisfied with this line up?

Going by the rules of the Brew Leak

1. Ryu Hayabusa ends the Fighter's Pass
2. Geno in DLC 2
3. All future DLC characters are third party

Geno, Doom Slayer, Dovahkiin, and Lloyd? I really hope that this is what DLC looks like by the end, because it's got nearly every character that I want.

 

[Nemuresu]

Every group is obnoxious and have terrible people in them, but ever group is also mocked like Ashley and Bandana Dee even if they did nothing. You'll find terrible people everywhere.

And that's why that **** even happens in the first place.

Smash Bros did help the series grow more, didn't save it but it help paved the way.

No, it didn't. Otherwise, we would've seen way more XB2 content outside of the spirits, the Rex costume and three songs.

With Hero we got three different version of the characters from three different games, and then they released the first three Dragon Quest on Switch not that long ago. The person in charge of Dragon Quest said they wanted the series to perform better in the west and Nintendo was trying to help out by using Hero in Smash Bros to promote the series and for people to get Dragon Quest XI S.

Only one (Erdrick) of them is part of the classic re-releases. Solo comes from an entirely different game and Eight comes from a PS2 title which Sakurai included because of his popularity overseas.

XI was already successful on PS4 and PC, so no, Nintendo barely did anything to make the franchise more successful with the Switch release and Smash.

Did you forget about how after Brawl releases we got Starfy on the DS that sold terribly and Golden Sun Dark Dawn which also sold terribly? Both game which killed the series.

Which means Smash doesn't have any real power as a "popularity booster".

And people aren't giving up.

Doesn't mean Nintendo will listen, nor that Smash is a magic genie of any sorts.

Yes, Sakurai had interest in a new entry, which is why he include Pit in Brawl with a redesign. So Smash Bros helped Kid Icarus come back.

He was going to do KIU regardless of Smash's influence. The fact that he has no interest on making a sequel is just another example of Smash's lack of impact on the usage of IPs.

I agreed ARMS sold well, but engagement dropped really quickly which isn't good for an online game. It didn't have the staying power like Splatoon which is probably why support for ARMS dropped really quickly. And remember, ARMS was released in Year 1 of the Switch and they were releasing on a monthly basis so it had the benefit of there not being much available. Sure in terms of sales it didn't struggle, but there is more to than just sales when it comes to a future of the series and I think most don't believe ARMS actually has a future.

Remember there suppose to be a comic series of ARMS that was suppose to release the first issue in Fall 2018 but got delayed to January 2019... and it's October right now with no other news about it since May 2018.

Sales are still pretty important and we don't even know if Nintendo considers ARMs to be a failure. And even if they did, what would've Smash done to save it if it couldn't do the same for Golden Sun, Starfy or Punch Out?

So I guess all the other Nintendo series aren't important enough to be added in seeing how the only new Nintendo title that got in was Splatoon and that's it.

Maybe, maybe not. All that matters is that Nintendo's approach didn't involve first-party IPs, and the only possible reason for that to happen aside of the crossover aspect is that guests really do sell better than Nintendo characters.

 

[maf91186]

Unpopular opinion (maybe probably yes ): I never liked the idea of Snake in Smash. He's a veteran now though so I tolerate him. Don't really know why I shared this, but I feel better now lol

 

[catsforlife1]

I do think brew is somewhat credible mainly because of the stuff papa genos covered. He confirmed that brew did not make the 4 chan post and that he was memeing on facebook because he does not want to be spammed by people. I feel like if this guy was a fake seeing how he does not like the attention from this leak I think he would have said by now hes not a leaker. As for the 10 fighter thing correct me if im wrong but did sabi at one point say that nintendo was considering doing more dlc after the pass? Because I remember something like that being talked about for a bit. Finally I want to mention the ryu geno leak. While i dont think its 100 precent true yet i find it interesting. Brew said he was not sure about geno getting in but to keep an eye on him. The fact geno has not been deconfirmed from the inside is really interesting to me. Lets hope for the best for our star boy.

 

[AdamBel731]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Ryu Hayabusa and Geno are THE most likely characters at the moment, in my opinion. Again, I don't have any personal attachment to them, they both just have a lot going for them (leaks aside).

Ryu Hayabusa will most definitely be getting in, whether as Fighter #5 of the pass or post-pass DLC. I definitely do not see Geno as Fighter #5, but post-pass DLC most definitely.

(I'd put Lloyd Irving and a Capcom chatacter as my next tier of likeliness. Not quite as likely as the two aforementioned guys above, but stil likely nonetheless.)

 

[Datboigeno]

Yeah, I really doubt this means anything. Then again, Verge did hear Geno's name before, too, but it was only to be told that he wasn't the Square rep in the FP (which is true, as that was Hero). The fact that Geno's name keeps getting whispered fascinates me, though, and I know Sabi's old NoA source heard Geno back in November, too, right? It was still as a maybe, though.

It really sticks out to me that Verge heard Geno was leakbait but never clarified why and Sabi heard around the same time about Geno. Why specifically call Geno leakbait considering all the characters on that list were leakbait at the end of the day other than Erdrick and Luminary and even that was a bit of a smokescreen as to what Hero would actually end up being. And now we have evidence that someone with supposed insider information also heard about Geno at the same time.

So I see 2 possibilities:

1. Geno was straight up leakbait or at least was at the time of the leaks with the possibility of that being changed now that a second pass is coming

or

2. 5 additional characters were always planned for SSBU DLC contingent on the game and its initial DLC selling well and Geno was a part of that potential FP2 plan from the beginning hence why so many people had heard whispers about him a year ago.

 

[Brother AJ]

I’m hoping for y’all big time. Ryu and Geno supporters unite!

 

[DanganZilla5]

View attachment 242395

I made a new half predictions/half wishlist Smash roster! Would you be satisfied with this line up?

Going by the rules of the Brew Leak

1. Ryu Hayabusa ends the Fighter's Pass
2. Geno in DLC 2
3. All future DLC characters are third party

I would personally replace Arle with Phoenix Wright as I don't know anything about her, but other than that I would be completely satisfied. Heck, I would be satisfied if even a couple of my favorites got in.

How are you guys creating this anyway?

 

[StarLight42]

I would personally replace Arle with Phoenix Wright as I don't know anything about her, but other than that I would be completely satisfied. Heck, I would be satisfied if even a couple of my favorites got in.

How are you guys creating this anyway?

I put Arle in there because I think she’s popular in Japan; I really know nothing about her aside from that.

Pheonix wright would be cool but i’m not sure if he fits in Smash. And if so I would replace Agumon with him because I don’t actually like Digimon very much but I see a decent amount of requests for him

I found the template on twitter, PapaGenos retweeted it not too long ago

 

[wynn728]

And that's why that **** even happens in the first place.

So I guess every character deserves to be mocked and ridiculed for never making it in. Look forward to more of that when Geno still isn't in.[/QUOTE]

No, it didn't. Otherwise, we would've seen way more XB2 content outside of the spirits, the Rex costume and three songs.

... You do know that XB2 came out after Smash Bros Ultimate and they stated that due to the production time of things Rex & Pyra were introduced too late to get into Smash Bros, right?

Only one (Erdrick) of them is part of the classic re-releases. Solo comes from an entirely different game and Eight comes from a PS2 title which Sakurai included because of his popularity overseas.

XI was already successful on PS4 and PC, so no, Nintendo barely did anything to make the franchise more successful with the Switch release and Smash.

The Dragon Quest series hasn't really been successful here in the states, which was why Dragon Quest got into Smash Bros to help it. Sakurai stated himself that he believe that Smash Bros can be used to promote games and make them more popular, and Nintendo agrees to that as well. Which is why when they're trying to make sure a game sells well they will mention Smash Bros, just like how they say that Smash & Metroid fans should get Samus Returns and how Smash Bros is constantly mention in anything related to Dragon Quest XI S. If they kept doing that then I believe it's safe to say that Smash Bros does have power to make franchises more successful, if not they why keep doing that?

Which means Smash doesn't have any real power as a "popularity booster".

Did you not read my comment early? I did state that "Assist Trophy is usually a death sentence for the series," which means that if a character gets in as an Assist Trophy then their series just wound up dead because nobody had interest in them anymore. Being a fighter is what gives a popularity boost, being an Assist Trophy just means you're garbage.
If you go back to see Brawl's original Assist Trophies you would see that a lot had one title afterwards which all sold bad and never got a continuation.

If you want to prove me on what I'm typing then please actually read my comment.

Doesn't mean Nintendo will listen, nor that Smash is a magic genie of any sorts.

Regardless of the fact people kept on asking for it and there's so much demand which happen because of Smash Bros help introduce Lucas to the western audience that most likely didn't even know about Mother 3.

He was going to do KIU regardless of Smash's influence. The fact that he has no interest on making a sequel is just another example of Smash's lack of impact on the usage of IPs.

???
Well first of all that's completely untrue because after Smash Bros people were asking for a Kid Icarus revival and Nintendo had plans to make a Kid Icarus game on the Wii without Sakurai and working with Factor 5 for it. Remember? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3cqKxfxaw
Sakurai wasn't going to make a Kid Icarus game until Iwata requested it.
Kid Icarus Uprising ended up being the 10th best selling title in 3DS library and probably one of the best influence that helped Kid Icarus series gain a lot of traction was because people played as Pit in Smash Bros Brawl.

Also Sakurai stated that he doesn't really like sequels which is a reason why he left Hal Laboratory and stopped making Kirby games. Him not being interested in making another Kid Icarus game isn't an example of Smash's lack on impact on the usage of IPs, that's just how Sakurai is. Plus he and his team are have been busy with Smash Bros for a really long time.

Sales are still pretty important and we don't even know if Nintendo considers ARMs to be a failure. And even if they did, what would've Smash done to save it if it couldn't do the same for Golden Sun, Starfy or Punch Out?

Having a character be playable helps strengthen the IP itself by having it be their first introduction to them and wanting to get more invested into the series. We saw plenty of people wanting to try out Castlevania games when Simon was revealed. We saw the demand of Kid Icarus after Pit was playable in Brawl. We even see people get more interested in Dragon Quest after they got a chance to play as Hero in Ultimate.

When you get to play as the character there is more of a connection you get, so having a character like, let's say, Min Min as a playable character gets people talking and wanting to check out more of the series. That has been proven.

As for Golden Sun, Starfy and Punch-Out well none of them were playable in Brawl, so most people didn't get that same connection that they did with the other playable character. It was a character that showed up for a bit and disappears, leaving absolutely no impact.

Let's paint an easy example for this. Being playable is like Marvel giving one of their series a movie. Majority of people didn't know about Guardian of the Galaxy, but once Marvel made it part of the MCU and made it a great movie more people got interested in that series. It was like a D-list series that rocket up to being well know.
Being an Assist Trophy is like being a Ready Player One cameo. Sure you're there in the background, but the appearance is so short that it doesn't register with you. So you're not going to be that interested in seeing where that character came from or what they were about because you just don't care. I had to constantly remind myself that Sonic was in that movie and I'm a huge Sonic fan.

I don't know why you're trying to downplay Smash Bros contribute or saying it doesn't have the impact we think it does when we clearly see that it does by getting people curious about it. Like crap, look at how Piranha Plant got a fanbase. If a generic enemy that people barely talked about before gets all this popularity then it's safe to say that there is some kind of magic in Smash Bros.

Maybe, maybe not. All that matters is that Nintendo's approach didn't involve first-party IPs, and the only possible reason for that to happen aside of the crossover aspect is that guests really do sell better than Nintendo characters.

Pretty sure most people bought the DLC without knowing it was going to be all third party titles.

 

[Ovaltine]

I’m hoping for y’all big time. Ryu and Geno supporters unite!

GO GENO AND RYU! I think Ryu is an absolutely deserving character for Smash. His move set variety is sweet, too. Good luck!

 

[Ovaltine]

Accidental double post. Thanks, buggy mouse.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I wouldn't be too hyped for ryu, but if his inclusion bodes well for our star boy, then I say bring him in!

 

[Firox]

Like it or not, 3rd party additions are bigger than 1st party additions. Always have been, always will be.

True dat. But I think we Geno supporters should take solace in knowing that Geno is technically third party, so even if the DLC is restricted to 3rd party only, he still has a decent chance.

 

[YsDisciple]

Incoming wholesome Smash fan-fiction

Spoiler: Enjoy

Narrator: As the second wave of new challengers comes to an end, many still look upwards, holding onto hope for their prayers to be fulfilled.

Somewhere above the stratosphere, someone is fighting against Galeem and Darkhon

???: Ugh! No way I'm letting you two do as you wish with their souls! They have a right to fulfill their dreams too!

Darkhon: FOOLISH PUPPET. YOU AS WELL AS THE REST OF THEM ARE MERE TOYS. SUCH TOOLS NEED NOT TO DREAM; ONLY SERVE.

Galeem: YOU SEEM TO POSSESS EXTRAORDINARY POWER. SIDE WITH ME AND I SHALL MAKE YOU ONE OF MY GENERALS. COME OVER TO THE PATH OF LIGHT.

Darkhon: NO. DARKNESS BECKONS YOU.

???: ENOUGH! I'm siding with none of you! I'll stop you both right here and now!

Darkhon: ARROGANT INFERIOR BEING. YOU WILL BE ANNIHILATED!

Galeem: THEN SO BE IT. THIS WILL BE YOUR END, GENO.

Both Galeem and Darkhon launch a powerful attack on Geno. Geno holds on, desperately trying to figure out a way out of this predicament.

Geno: If I fall here it'll all be over. It's not fair! They all had dreams. They all wished to be given a chance. These two forces, they don't care about them and just toy with them as they see fit.

Geno in an instant saw the faces of all the other heroes that had been cast out. Suddenly, a power began swelling from within.

Spoiler: You Say Run

Geno: No, not yet! They can still make it. They WILL make it!

Geno begins to emit a golden aura around him. Both Galeem and Darkhon notice this.

Darkhon: STILL TRYING TO CHALLENGE US? KNOW YOUR PLACE!

Geno's aura solidifies, taking shape of a protective orb; canceling both Galeem and Darkhon's attack.

Galeem: WHAT IS THIS POWER?

Geno: YO LOSERS!

Geno stares at both Galeem and Darkhon, defiantly.

Geno: The two of you won't have things your way any longer.

Geno's body begins to glow, soon after it begins to change shape of a cannon.

Darkhon: YOU TRULY BELIEVE YOU CAN DEFEAT US. YOU ARE BENEATH US, JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER TOYS.

Galeem: YOU WOULD BE SO WILLING AS TO FORFEIT YOUR OWN LIFE?

Geno's new form begins to absorb copious amounts of energy from the stars nearby.

Geno: You're wrong. I've never been one too concerned for myself. That's not how I was made. What the two of you see is only a doll, but in reality, I'm a wish that has manifested. I owe it to many, me having come this far. Even though I've never met most of them, I see them all as my friends. Each and everyone of them has a right to dream. That being said...

Geno finishes gathering energy and readies to fire.

Geno: ... NEITHER OF YOU ARE GOING TO GET IN THE WAY OF THAT ANYMORE!

Darkhon/Galeem: IMPOSSIBLE.

Geno: GENO....... FLASH!!!!!!

Geno fires a small, yet incredibly dense energy orb at both Galeem and Darkhon. The orb stops right between the two and begins to expand. The orb expands until it covers both Galeem and Darkhon.

Darkhon: WHAT IS THIS POWER?!

Galeem: SO IT WAS YOU. YOU WERE THE WANDERING STAR MESSENGER...

The orb detonates; the blast consuming both Galeem and Darkhon, while at the same time breaking the celestial chains that bound the imprisoned heroes.

Over in the imaginary world, our heroes regained their forms and consciousness, and some spirits and figures also were brought to life.

Fox: Whoa, huh?

Samus: We're, ok?

Pit: Huh,? UH?! WE'RE ALIVE!!! YEAH! WOHOO!!!

Palutena: Does this mean, both Galeem and Darkhon have been defeated?

Zelda: It seems that way. However, who did it? I thought all of us were caught by those rays of light.

The heroes gather around; some begin to celebrate, while others question what could have caused this outcome. After a while, some of them notice another group approaching them.

Shulk: Everyone look. The others are headed this way.

Ike: Others? Aren't we all here already?

Falco: No wait... it can't be.

As the heroes look towards the group, many are left amazed and surprised upon identifying them.

King Dedede: Is that... Waddle Dee?

Roy: I also see Isaac!

Sonic: Yo, Shadow! Knuckles! No way!

The group which approached our heroes consisted of none other than the other heroes that had been imprisoned by Galeem and Darkhon prior to their invasion.

Wario: WALUIGI!

Waluigi: WARIO!!!

Most of these new, yet familiar faces had been confined to trophies and spirits, but now they were finally free; joyfully reuniting with their friends.

Daisy: Oh my, all of this is just too darn wholesome! My heart can't take this!

Peach: It is. Still, I wonder... how did this all happen?

Rosalina contemplating the great reunion, suddenly senses a faint energy in the sky. Curious, she flies out to search for the source of that energy. As she continues to ascend, she realizes that the energy is somewhere beyond the stratosphere.

Spoiler: Goodbye Twink!

Having reached outer space, she searches the nearby area until finally coming upon the source of the energy. It had become faint.

Rosalina: Hmm? What's this?

Rosalina finds the remains of what seemed to be a doll. Only part of the upper body remained; right arm missing, and face with both eyes shut.

Rosalina: This doll looks familiar. This energy...

As Rosalina placed her hand upon the doll's chest, she felt a familiar warmth.

Rosalina: Warm? Were you alive?

Rosalina smiles.

Rosalina: What am I saying? Of course I'd recognize you. It's been quite a long time hasn't it, old friend? So it is you we have to thank.

Rosalina commences to guide her wand; it casting swirls of energy over the doll's remains.

Rosalina: Everyone's celebrating back home, and honestly, it just wouldn't feel right without you.

The cosmic swirls cast by Rosalina's wand envelop the doll's remains in light. Back in the imaginary world, the heroes notice a light far off in the sky. After a while, the light fades. As they continue looking towards where the light was, they notice two silhouettes descending. As they came closer, some could make out who they were.

Luigi: Oh! It's Rosalina. She's back!

Mario: Who's that next to her?

As Mario wondered, he immediately recognized the blue caped companion.

Mario: No... it can't be.

Peach also recognized who it was and quickly placed her hands covering her mouth, as she shed tears of surprise and joy.

Rosalina: I'm back. Sorry for flying off all of a sudden earlier but, I just had to bring the star of the hour.

Everyone gathered there looked at the newcomer with curiosity and awe. As for Mario, Peach, and Bowser; the three quickly ran towards the new guest, welcoming it with overwhelming joy.

Bowser: GENOOO-HOHOHOHO!

Bowser cried.

Peach: It's you, it really is you!

Geno: Uh, who... who are you?

Suddenly Bowser, Peach, and Mario were startled and looked at him with worry.

Mario: Geno... don't you... remember us?

Rosalina looks at Geno with the corner of her eye. Geno stares at the three speechless for a moment, until he finally faces down for a moment and casts a brief smirk.

Geno: Sike! Of course I remember you guys!

Geno then stretches his arms, welcoming the three with a big hug. The four of them laugh, and suddenly someone else drops in on the moment, hugging them as well.

???: WHAAAAAAA!!! GENO! YOU'RE BACK!!!

Mario, Peach, and Bowser are shocked seeing none other than their old friend Mallow drop in on the moment.

Bowser: MALLOW?!?!

Mario: Mallow?! What... how, when did you?!

Mallow: WAAAAHHHH! *sniff* *sniff*. I came along with the others. I was trapped in a dark, lonely place. When I woke up, I was found by some of the guys here and when I saw everyone joining up just now and saw Geno... and then you guys too... I... I... WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Narrator: The five old friends embraced themselves, as most of the other heroes watched and celebrated with joy upon this reunion. Other similar encounters followed suit and finally all in the imaginary world was right once again.

 

[Looma]

Geno is in a pretty good spot assuming everyone is being truthful. You'd have to be a moron of some kind to use what is basically the unofficial mascot of fake leaks as leakbait, it's just not practical.

I look forward to potentially actually seeing HD Geno oh my god.

 

[Firox]

Geno, Doom Slayer, Dovahkiin, and Lloyd? I really hope that this is what DLC looks like by the end, because it's got nearly every character that I want.

That, and the sheer freaking number of characters would have me happy as a clam. If the next pass has 5 characters? Awesome! If there's even MORE after that? Best excuse to change my shorts ever. The only character left I'd need to die complete would be Sephiroth.

 

[Herocin]

How likely do people think Geno is actually?

 

[Musubi]

So I found this video on YouTube by Game Soup last night that talks about why SMRPG is such a great game from a game design perspective. I thought it was really good and pointed out interesting design choices about the game that I never really noticed before. This video is actually a 35 minute mash up of 4 other Game Soup videos if you wanted to watch each video separately.

 

[Ovaltine]

How likely do people think Geno is actually?

He scored as one of the top three most likely in Sabi's recent Discord poll, so a sizable amount of people seem to think he's coming (in terms of the sample size, natch). I'd give him 50/50 myself.

 

[T2by4]

How likely do people think Geno is actually?

Personally 20% for me. Only thing going for him is the missing mii costume and the music mysteriously being taken down by nintendo. There hasn't been any base spirits that are actual base characters, so Im not fully convinced spirits don't deconfirm. If they reveal someone like shantae, rayman or someone with a spirit that is the character themselves in their iconic form, then I'd say 90%. Until then, 20% for me, and that's mainly from the evidence described earlier and from pure fan demand since, let's be honest, Geno is the LAST long requested character not in yet.

 

[Firox]

I’m hoping for y’all big time. Ryu and Geno supporters unite!

Indeed! BTW, I noticed that you're a longtime Link main and it reminded me of the time I tried to teach one of my friends how to play smash for the first time:

Friend: "Wow! There's so many characters to choose from!"

Me: "Heck yeah, there is. Now, when it comes to picking your main, it's important to choose one that really resonates with you. Which kind of fighting style do you think you'd like? Rush down? Zoner? Bait and punish?"

Friend: "LINK."

Me: "Uh...so what, zoner?"

Friend: "LINK."

Me: ".......OK then...."

 

[Evil Trapezium]

When they say "boyo", they were reffering to Geno. After looking back, they seemed confident that Geno was POSSIBLY coming, but knew that DQ was coming first and that 10 dlc characters are absolutely happening

I felt like he was LARP'ing at the time, and maybe he still is and just got really lucky. Who knows. I felt like we would've gotten Geno a while back if he heard of him waaaay back in October/November last year. These messages were on November 4th 2018.

Keep in mind, Vergeben said Hero would be coming to Smash Ultimate all the way back in November 2018 which is when the DLC line up for the Fighters pass was completed. Also the earliest the DLC plans were heard from according to Sakurai was way back in January 2018. Grant Kirkhope also said he had to keep Banjo & Kazooie a secret for a whole year before they were announced so it's possible Geno may still be in production for the additional DLC.