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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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ForsakenM

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This is getting too de-raily again. We know one is 1st party and one 3rd party. At this point, it's just rehashing the same thing over and over again while being off-topic. Move on, please. Take the iconic argument to a thread where it's not off-topic and(besides, this isn't even tangible related to Geno, it's talking about icons... which wasn't in context of Geno at all). There's no question that the previous debate was let gone on way too long and it clearly overtook the thread. No doubt I didn't help with this when I should have and I screwed up. And I apologize for that.
Sorry about my delayed post, when I submitted it it was still relevant on my screen and I didn't have any notifications on posts at the time, sorry about that.

What are we trying to focus on now?
 

Nicnac

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What's this 78 day cycle I keep hearing about? Can someone please explain to me?
Sure.
There are 78 days between the releases of Piranha Plant and Joker.
78 days after Joker was released is July 4th, an American national holiday.
78 days after that is September 20th, which is during Fall, aka Banjo's release timeframe.
78 days after that is December 7th, Ultimate's 1 year anniversary.
and 78 days after that is February 23rd, the month the fighter pass is supposed to be completed by.

Speculation around this claims we get a Hero release date (and by extension Geno Mii Costume confirmation) on July 4th.

Slightly more zany speculation claims Hero's coming within the next 24 hours, as there's maintenance at 5:50pm PT, and Joker dropped in April maintenance.

As I live in Scotland, I have no clue what time it is in America, so the theory may still stand.
It probably doesn't mean much but it's fun to think about!
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Sorry about my delayed post, when I submitted it it was still relevant on my screen and I didn't have any notifications on posts at the time, sorry about that.

What are we trying to focus on now?
Geno and not PP.

Basically. Note that your first post was wayyyyyyyyy before the first of mod posts. Your second post was not replying to anyone in particular, so it's a bit easier to notice what I said, but doesn't always happen. I'm referring to your post that quoted no one, to be clear.
 

MattX20

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I think I've said this story before, but just for a refresher, I'll tell my story on why I want Geno. A long time ago, at a neighbor's house, I played Super Mario RPG for the first time. I didn't know what RPGs were yet at the time and never played a game like it before and I always remembered it for its 3D graphics. I never got very far past the intro, and for many years, I almost forgot about the game's existence. My first proper RPG experience was with Paper Mario years later if one doesn't count the Pokemon games from Generation 1 and the first RPG I actually owned. For years, the Paper Mario games, Thousand Year Door especially, were a source of fun for me, and it was about 2006/2007 I stumbled upon a series of Flash animations on Newgrounds called Smash Kingdom. They gave me a little laugh, and that was how I was technically introduced to Geno proper before the game in question, mainly the Easter egg of how at the time fans wanted him to be in Brawl/any Smash game for over 11 years. It got me curious to track down a copy of Super Mario RPG for myself and eventually I did. I remember playing the game for a long time, and specifically that I beat the game for the first time the night before Brawl released. Playing the game felt like a missing part of my childhood and it gave me a sense of satisfaction/warmth that many modern games for me just don't seem to catch. I remember shortly after that learning Geno wasn't playable in Brawl, I wrote an email to Sakurai stating how I wished Geno would come back/be playable and I got a response saying the email would be forwarded to him. For years, I admit I lost hope and waited in doubt because of Square Enix at the time and how hostile they seemingly were. Flash forward to the DLC cycle for Smash 4, and when the Ballot hit, I regret that I don't remember if I voted for Geno even once. Possibly over whether or not Geno would even make the cut at all. Then Cloud was confirmed, and during the final Smash Direct, a Geno Mii Fighter costume with a splash screen made me wish I voted for Geno more. Smash Ultimate has renewed hope in me, and I want to believe my hopes are not misplaced this time. Super Mario RPG was a major part of a lot of people's childhoods here in America and Japan, and I want Geno in so years of heartbreak and stress can finally fade away. After all, Sakurai did say Geno was perfect for Smash in Nintendo Dream back in 2016, and I want to believe that Sakurai went above and beyond to get him back. If Geno comes back, I'll never ask for a single character ever again in Smash. It's very personal to me.
 
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Sure.
There are 78 days between the releases of Piranha Plant and Joker.
78 days after Joker was released is July 4th, an American national holiday.
78 days after that is September 20th, which is during Fall, aka Banjo's release timeframe.
78 days after that is December 7th, Ultimate's 1 year anniversary.
and 78 days after that is February 23rd, the month the fighter pass is supposed to be completed by.

It probably doesn't mean much but it's fun to think about!
Thanks!
 

AugustusB

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Sure.
There are 78 days between the releases of Piranha Plant and Joker.
78 days after Joker was released is July 4th, an American national holiday.
78 days after that is September 20th, which is during Fall, aka Banjo's release timeframe.
78 days after that is December 7th, Ultimate's 1 year anniversary.
and 78 days after that is February 23rd, the month the fighter pass is supposed to be completed by.

Speculation around this claims we get a Hero release date (and by extension Geno Mii Costume confirmation) on July 4th.

Slightly more zany speculation claims Hero's coming within the next 24 hours, as there's maintenance at 5:50pm PT, and Joker dropped in April maintenance.

As I live in Scotland, I have no clue what time it is in America, so the theory may still stand.
It probably doesn't mean much but it's fun to think about!
There is maintenance going on around then!? Hrmmmmm. Maybe getting things ready for The Hero? After last time, it would not surprise me if they did the maintenance first THEN give us the fighter within the week of said maintenance.
 

Nicnac

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Maintenance hasn't been confirmed to be Smash, sorry for false information. It does seem highly likely that it IS Smash, however, as there aren't too many games that undergo maintenance and Hero is hopefully hot on its way!
 
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volbound1700

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So the question that baffles my mind is why doesn't Square-Enix just sale Geno and Mallow back to Nintendo? It is not like they are using the IP and it is really only popular among a niche of Nintendo fans.
 

Captain Fun

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So the question that baffles my mind is why doesn't Square-Enix just sale Geno and Mallow back to Nintendo? It is not like they are using the IP and it is really only popular among a niche of Nintendo fans.
Maybe Nintendo doesn’t have much of an interest in buying them. Plus, they go through SE every time they want to rerelease Mario RPG since they own the characters/scenario or whatever.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Maybe Nintendo doesn’t have much of an interest in buying them. Plus, they go through SE every time they want to rerelease Mario RPG since they own the characters/scenario or whatever.
Or to put it simply, they'd be going through SE as is just to re-release SMRPG in any way. Nintendo doesn't seem too interested in just having Geno and Mallow. It'd be pretty easy for them to license one or both in a Mario Kart game, since SE would make a decent amount of money per sale(depending upon how it's licensed overall).

Owning one or two characters won't change that. SE wouldn't want to sell just a tiny bit, since they maximize profit right now by owning the whole thing. Selling the whole thing would make more sense on their end in comparison. Though I don't know if there's music in there that's owned by other composers, so maybe it's more complicated than just "buy the rights from SE" alone.
 

Ovaltine

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Maybe Nintendo doesn’t have much of an interest in buying them. Plus, they go through SE every time they want to rerelease Mario RPG since they own the characters/scenario or whatever.
Pretty much. I think they ought to, though. Making Geno and Mallow first party and using them more often would bring in hella bank, imo. Could also be because SE is charging an arm and a leg for them, though, and comparatively, the cost outweighs the gain.
 

MattX20

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Or to put it simply, they'd be going through SE as is just to re-release SMRPG in any way. Nintendo doesn't seem too interested in just having Geno and Mallow. It'd be pretty easy for them to license one or both in a Mario Kart game, since SE would make a decent amount of money per sale(depending upon how it's licensed overall).

Owning one or two characters won't change that. SE wouldn't want to sell just a tiny bit, since they maximize profit right now by owning the whole thing. Selling the whole thing would make more sense on their end in comparison. Though I don't know if there's music in there that's owned by other composers, so maybe it's more complicated than just "buy the rights from SE" alone.
As far as a I can tell, all of the original tracks for Super Mario RPG were composed and subsequently owned by Yoko Shimomura.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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As far as a I can tell, all of the original tracks for Super Mario RPG were composed and subsequently owned by Yoko Shimomura.
So that's another person to possibly go through then?

I don't know if the licensing is from him or SE specifically. Composer rights are strange in this case. Though to be fair, the fact people are paid for their personal work isn't a bad thing either.
 

Ovaltine

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So that's another person to possibly go through then?

I don't know if the licensing is from him or SE specifically. Composer rights are strange in this case. Though to be fair, the fact people are paid for their personal work isn't a bad thing either.
Yoko's been able to use SMRPG's music very freely, even on independent remix albums. She wouldn't be a tough nut to crack at all. That said, it just makes it doubly puzzling that SMRPG music isn't in the game. If Hero drops with Geno's Mii outfit (which, if Fatman's report on what insiders are saying about a 'salt-inducing' Mii costume pack is true, is extremely likely), he's not in the FP, and that means no SMRPG music... unless they bundled some with Hero. I doubt that, though.
 

N3ON

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Pretty much. I think they ought to, though. Making Geno and Mallow first party and using them more often would bring in hella bank, imo. Could also be because SE is charging an arm and a leg for them, though, and comparatively, the cost outweighs the gain.
Hella bank? I don't know about that. I think it would bring in a slight bump in the first game they returned to (assuming it was an RPG or something and not an already massive title like Mario Kart), then people would acclimatize to them and it'd be business as usual.

I mean Sonic broke the internet when they added him to Smash, and then by Smash 4 people were like, "yep, there's Sonic". And that's Sonic.
 

Nicnac

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So that's another person to possibly go through then?
She's on the music team. Among others she remixed Dedede's theme in Brawl, Kass' Theme in Ultimate, and Ryu's Theme in 4. Impressive stuff! As well as that she did the first Kingdom Hearts and almost all of the SF2 themes. Guile? Ken? That's her. Quality stuff comes out of her, which is why I'm a little suspicious that there's no SMRPG music (which she is apparently free to use).
 

MattX20

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Yoko's been able to use SMRPG's music very freely, even on independent remix albums. She wouldn't be a tough nut to crack at all. That said, it just makes it doubly puzzling that SMRPG music isn't in the game. If Hero drops with Geno's Mii outfit (which, if Fatman's report on what insiders are saying about a 'salt-inducing' Mii costume pack is true, is extremely likely), he's not in the FP, and that means no SMRPG music... unless they bundled some with Hero. I doubt that, though.
There is one other possibility of what a salt inducing Mii Fighter costume would be. It would be someone bigger than Geno outside of Smash: Sora.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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She's on the music team. Among others she remixed Dedede's theme in Brawl, Kass' Theme in Ultimate, and Ryu's Theme in 4. Impressive stuff! As well as that she did the first Kingdom Hearts and almost all of the SF2 themes. Guile? Ken? That's her. Quality stuff comes out of her, which is why I'm a little suspicious that there's no SMRPG music (which she is apparently free to use).
Well, I don't mean being on the music team, I mean if they have to license her music separately. Having her compose new music is a different, and since she's working under Nintendo, wouldn't require a unique payment plan, just the group being paid together. ...Probably. SE and Nintendo aren't the same.
 

Ovaltine

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There is one other possibility of what a salt inducing Mii Fighter costume would be. It would be someone bigger than Geno outside of Smash: Sora.
Why would they even go through the hoops to get a Mii outfit for Sora, though? NoA is very aware of Geno's popularity. I can only really think of it being him or maybe Sephiroth. It makes sense only for it to be a character that they'd have to go through Squeenix for, whereas Sora would also be Disney.
 

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Why would they even go through the hoops to get a Mii outfit for Sora, though? NoA is very aware of Geno's popularity. I can only really think of it being him or maybe Sephiroth. It makes sense only for it to be a character that they'd have to go through Squeenix for, whereas Sora would also be Disney.
The salt-inducing costume could easily be someone else, but I do agree it's more likely it'll be one from a company that'll have other content in Smash as is. I.E. Rayman.
 

Nicnac

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If Hero drops with Geno's Mii outfit (which, if Fatman's report on what insiders are saying about a 'salt-inducing' Mii costume pack is true, is extremely likely)
Nah, people called Geno's return through costume months before- I don't think that's particularly salt-inducing. Honestly I think another of the Seven Squares is a distinct possibility. Sora would have his fans pissing blood, so that's a possibility. Sephiroth and Crono are the other non-Slime Squares, but they're not massively salt-inducing IMO.

Side point, I'd love a Master Chief Mii Costume.
 
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MattX20

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Why would they even go through the hoops to get a Mii outfit for Sora, though? NoA is very aware of Geno's popularity. I can only really think of it being him or maybe Sephiroth. It makes sense only for it to be a character that they'd have to go through Squeenix for, whereas Sora would also be Disney.
You're forgetting Sora's been highly requested too, and I'm thinking outside of just Smash fans logic. The character has notable Square Enix ties, and while there would be salt for Geno fans if the costume would return, it would pale comparing to Sora.
 

wynn728

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Nah, people called Geno's return through costume months before- I don't think that's particularly salt-inducing. Honestly I think another of the Seven Squares is a distinct possibility. Sora would have his fans pissing blood, so that's a possibility. Sephiroth and Crono are the other non-Slime Squares, but they're not massively salt-inducing IMO.

Side point, I'd love a Master Chief Mii Costume.
If there was a Sora Mii Costume that would be super stupid, like whoever was in charge of that needs to be given a full psychological evaluation. Because that would meant they went through the difficulty of obtaining the rights to use Sora's likeness from Square & Disney only just make a crappy costume instead of a fighter. That's such a waste since getting Sora's rights won't be a small feat.

But yeah, bring on the salt. Isaac thought them that Assist Trophies aren't a good way to include a character and now they need to learn that with Mii Costumes. Instead of making bootleg looking version of characters that can't get in by attaching them to three of the most useless fighters they should make costumes for the actual fighters. Give Bowser a Dry Bowser skin, Peach & Daisy in their sports attire, Snake in a tuxedo, Detective Pikachu hat, or give Sonic a Shadow skin if they refuse to make Shadow an echo fighter. Hell what would be great promotion is when Bayonetta 3 gets fully revealed have her third game look be a DLC skin. I'm more willing to pay $1 for any of those skins then I'm willing to pay $0.75 for a combination of 10 different Mii Costume.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Sora is not owned by Square-Enix whatsoever. It's pure Disney.

It's still pointless to secure the rights from a company for a single costume. If there was a lot of KH content alone, that'd be different. Various spirits etc. Then at least you're getting some bang for your buck.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Just a quick thing; spoiler marking isn't a way we allow rude language to be posted. Just link to the image/post/etc. instead with a language warning. You can also edit the picture to censor all the swearing, like putting a full black box over it, etc.
 

xpnc

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Just a quick thing; spoiler marking isn't a way we allow rude language to be posted. Just link to the image/post/etc. instead with a language warning. You can also edit the picture to censor all the swearing, like putting a full black box over it, etc.
Amended
 

volbound1700

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I just don't see SE using the Super Mario RPG IP very much. Also, Nintendo was stupid to not secure the full rights over all of the IP. Oh well. I can see SE getting royalties off re-releases of Super Mario RPG so that is probably why they hold onto the IP.
 

AugustusB

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Speaking of the salt inducing Mii Costumes rumor...has anything new come from that?

Or was it all just speculation on the insiders parts?
 

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xpnc

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"sakurai including this character in the game in some form is a slap to the face to ME and everyone else"

god damn is this fanbase entitled. and you just know this guy would be screaming to the high heavens if assists/spirits were cut or something.
Considering I only play stock no items I've never seen ATs or spirits outside of training mode or when I spent a few hours trying World of Light. If they were both removed from the game tomorrow it would take me a long time to notice
 

ZelDan

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I don't think charcters are made assist trophies or spirits for any malicious reason, though I do agree that assist trophies are a very weak way to be represented when a good chunk of people don't play with items on or maybe assist trophies, and even when they do a character you give a damn about has a low chance of popping up in the first place, and IF they do, they're on screen for, maybe, 10 seconds give or take?

Spirits aren't any better of course, though I guess they atleast can be visible on screen for more than 10 or so seconds in multiplayer I think...
 
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Ovaltine

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Spirits was ultimately a poor idea in general. It was everything people liked about trophies and Subspace, but made infinitely more inferior and into a monotonous grind. Ultimate is great and I'm glad Sakurai tried to give us a story mode, but Spirits just didn't rub off well with me at all. The fact that it's literally Google searched PNGs (yes, literally on the Google searched bit, as well, given that one Claus incident) slapped together makes it feel more like a fan project than an actual mode in Smash Bros. Getting the rights for Geno just to include him as a PNG and to port his old Mii costume (for us to have to purchase again, no less) is honestly enough to make me bitter.

Assist trophies, though? I think they're fine. Hell, I would have been ECSTATIC if Geno was an assist trophy. He'd have gotten a 3D model and some tangible existence in the game beyond a bootleg version of him + a 24-year-old PNG. I would have been extremely happy. Heck, I'm in the minority opinion here, but I'd prefer an assist to no representation at all... or very shoddy representation that took little to no effort beyond the copyright (i.e. Geno's case).
 

Nemuresu

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Considering I only play stock no items I've never seen ATs or spirits outside of training mode or when I spent a few hours trying World of Light. If they were both removed from the game tomorrow it would take me a long time to notice
Dude, not to offend or anything, but it's not Sakurai or Nintendo's fault that you decided to disable ATs.
 

ZelDan

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I can understand why spirits didn't have as in depth descriptions as trophies did in the previous few Smash games, but a brief sentence or few sentence description would have been nice atleast for some of the more "important" spirits.
 
D

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Hey everyone, check out what I found! It's fan made sprite animations for Wario in SMRPG
d7uk1s0-9fc81111-3b4e-4c37-ba9a-d587236baa7d.gif
d7v6biu-8b7a3570-bd31-433b-a4c2-428b6921b733.gif
 
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