Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[xpnc]

Which always made me wonder: why on earth did Vergeben stick around on smashFAQs. That site despises him to no end, his name is practically a curse to them, and between him and the site, in the end, all sides came off looking like jerks. The users never seem happy either about anything. How did Verge see other Smash sites if he thought Smash FAQs was an acceptable alternative?

Their butthurt makes him stronger

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If I recall correct, certain design elements were inspired by DQ. The one that I recall is that early Zelda shields were similar to the ones in DQ.

Nice. I mean, it's not a coincidence Hero and Link are a sword and shield wielder in Smash.

I also love DQ1's spell list alone. Especially since after looking at it, a good chunk of spells in Quest 64 literally are based upon the spells/items as is. Wing of Wyvern is just an obvious one, as you get one Wing per major city(except the one city burnt down). Though one thing I find interesting is the spell Escape is closer to the usual Run option, instead of actually going out of the battlefield to escape. One is literally RNG-based. The other is a "this happens and the enemy cannot block you off". Though it's made weirder when an item can be used to cause Escape where it can't miss, so eh?

Back to SMRPG for a moment, is this the first RPG where action commands/timing is relevant? Like, I remember Final Fantasy II being the first game where you can improve stats by doing actions in a traditional rpg. But that might be off.

 

[Ovaltine]

Actually the tombstone is in an FF game.

Oooh, gotcha, just shows how little I know about Squeenix games rofl. Either way, still think it's a cute little nod.

 

[EarlTamm]

Nice. I mean, it's not a coincidence Hero and Link are a sword and shield wielder in Smash.

I also love DQ1's spell list alone. Especially since after looking at it, a good chunk of spells in Quest 64 literally are based upon the spells/items as is. Wing of Wyvern is just an obvious one, as you get one Wing per major city(except the one city burnt down). Though one thing I find interesting is the spell Escape is closer to the usual Run option, instead of actually going out of the battlefield to escape. One is literally RNG-based. The other is a "this happens and the enemy cannot block you off". Though it's made weirder when an item can be used to cause Escape where it can't miss, so eh?

Back to SMRPG for a moment, is this the first RPG where action commands/timing is relevant? Like, I remember Final Fantasy II being the first game where you can improve stats by doing actions in a traditional rpg. But that might be off.

I think it was the first to do action comands as we know them. It was something they came up with some inspiration from a Japanese toy if I recall correct, so no other video game inspiration.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think it was the first to do action comands as we know them. It was something they came up with some inspiration from a Japanese toy if I recall correct, so no other video game inspiration.

Ah, sweet. I love a lot of these things simple trivia tidbits.

Actually the tombstone is in an FF game.

I was about to say, cause the earlier message felt off. I remembered something similar to what Ovaltine said and it was pointed out incorrect.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

 

[Deleted member]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

True.

There isn’t really a lot of limitations for this Pass, so two reps from the same company could indeed happen.

 

[Thunderfang747]

True.

There isn’t really a lot of limitations for this Pass, so two reps from the same company could indeed happen.

It is something that I as a Banjo fan had to read quite frequently back when Steve was "all but confirmed" and I just never could buy it. Why are both impossible? It sounds like another "rule" such as
"Only Nintendo characters": (Sonic and Snake)
"Only relevant characters": (K. Rool)
" Too big": (Ridley)
"Konami won't be involved" (Snake again and belmonts"
and now "No western characters or rival company characters" which Banjo had broken.

It seems like Sakurai cares not for your rules and will simply do what he feels like, so don't give up hope guys, keep fighting.

 

[xpnc]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

No there's really no reason why we can't get two from the same company. Getting two from S-E would make sense anyway as it would bring Sega, Konami, Capcom, and S-E all up to 3 characters (echoes included), and all of these companies have a massively long history with Nintendo. Namco and Microsoft having one each after that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

Variety.

 

[Deleted member]

Variety.

Yeah, I understand that some people want variety.

But it is true that Nintendo could pull out anyone for the Fighter Pass, even if they come from the same company again.

Time will tell, but Sakurai hasn’t said anything about two characters from the same company being impossible.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Variety.

I would agree with you, but I argue that variety does exist between Hero and Geno. Hero is a swordsman who uses magic spells. Geno is a reanimated doll with a gun arm. They are both RPG characters, but that doesn't mean they are similar in any way other than that and the fact that they are both square characters. If we set aside the Square title, you wouldn't even put the two in the same catagory.

 

[EarlTamm]

I would agree with you, but I argue that variety does exist between Hero and Geno. Hero is a swordsman who uses magic spells. Geno is a reanimated doll with a gun arm. They are both RPG characters, but that doesn't mean they are similar in any way other than that and the fact that they are both square characters. If we set aside the Square title, you wouldn't even put the two in the same catagory.

Actually, wouldn't it be more correct to say that Hero is an Enix character?

 

[ForsakenM]

While I do have responses, I'm not going to post them.

This PP conversation is the most toxic thing I've seen on this subthread...EVER. We've gone off on some things before, but this one REALLY takes the cake. I even regret getting into it myself because of how passionate I got about it, but it just irked me that people think they know better than Sakurai or that they can do better than Sakurai can. When Sakurai takes the VERY minute amount of time and effort to make PP, a character that allows him to make all the decisions and be creative, I feel like we shouldn't be such pricks about it. You can not like the character, but don't act like that character doesn't belong and don't act like Sakurai made a mistake.

Seriously, people think he can just do whatever he wants as Lead Designer, but you know that the Smash games have changed a lot from what he originally wanted, which shows me he is feeling both pressure from above and from the fans. Literally every addition minus PP is either fan demanded, shows signs of corporate pressure, or both. You notice how every character fans wanted played just like you thought they would and used moves you thought they would and moved how you thought they would and etc how you thought they would? That is Sakurai and his team making sure not to mess up a fan demand. There is no creative freedom there. There is also no creative freedom in corporate picks, as those are essentially choices made for him and now he has to make sure that character represents themselves and the franchise correctly.

Other than PP, the closest you can get is Incineroar as he is somewhat removed from his Pokemon moveset, but even then not so far removed that Sakurai had complete control over the pick and the moveset: he had three to choose from, and he had to stick to moves that make sense with Incineroar. But Sakurai got to pick PP and let his creative juices flow, so can you just let him have this one thing without being so selfish and taking yet another thing away from him?

PP is not a waste of a slot.
PP didn't take a slot from any other character.
PP is someone's favorite character.
PP is the one character in Smash Sakurai was allowed to have creative freedom with.
You can hate PP all you want, but I'm glad they exist for many reasons, and I hope to see them return.

Man, I ended up making a response after all...damnit. I think this irks me so much because, as a creative person, I would hate for others to have so much control over what I make and then for people to act like what little freedom I did have was worthless and a waste of resources. It just seems so ungodly selfish to me. I get that people are consumers, but there is a difference between 'I don't like this product, so I won't buy it.' and 'I don't like this product, so it shouldn't exist and what I think should exist should replace it.'

 

[xpnc]

Everyone was done talking about the plant a page ago. Now you're just stoking the flames

 

[AugustusB]

Actually, wouldn't it be more correct to say that Hero is an Enix character?

Why it would be. Technically speaking, Square hasn't had a new rep yet, but Enix got The Hero(s). It is a BIG stretch, but not out of the realm of possibility. Not anymore at least. As Thunderfang747 , and others, have pointed out, FAN RULES ARE BEING BROKEN!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Technicalities don't mean much. Square-Enix has two characters overall as both were added while the companies were combined. It'd be sweet to have a 3rd one, and there's multiple choices, including Geno, the puppetry soldier of guns.

 

[Deleted member]

FAN RULES ARE BEING BROKEN!

Wait a minute...

...I think I heard that before...

Spoiler: GOOD LORD

Cloud was telling us about the downfall of Fan Theories since the start

 

[AugustusB]

@JDCabrera Oh snap!! Cloud leading the way to Rules being broken!!

Geno had to at least be considered for Ultimate's roster either through DLC or Base. Was there an artist with close ties to Nintendo that drew that nice Geno picture with the phrase "I serve...a higher authority" ? The said "Geno has been a topic around the office as of late and it felt right to draw him".

I remember we put together that was around Mid 2015, so we took it as "They were talking about Geno's Mii Costume"
But now, we know that the plans for Ultimate was done around the time of the last Sm4sh direct late 2015.

Trying not to grasp at straws, but something to keep my mind from going anywhere but Geno speculation.

 

[xpnc]

@JDCabrera Oh snap!! Cloud leading the way to Rules being broken!!

Geno had to at least be considered for Ultimate's roster either through DLC or Base. Was there an artist with close ties to Nintendo that drew that nice Geno picture with the phrase "I serve...a higher authority" ? The said "Geno has been a topic around the office as of late and it felt right to draw him".

I remember we put together that was around Mid 2015, so we took it as "They were talking about Geno's Mii Costume"
But now, we know that the plans for Ultimate was done around the time of the last Sm4sh direct late 2015.

Trying not to grasp at straws, but something to keep my mind from going anywhere but Geno speculation.

he's in.

 

[StormC]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

There's not, like, a hard and fast rule about it. My guess is Nintendo wants to use the Fighters Pass partially to strengthen relationships with certain companies and developers, and they may want to avoid doubling up to cast as wide of a net as possible. I think it's just an issue of likelihood and whether or not with two fighters left, one or both will double up. We'll see soon enough... or not soon enough because we still don't have a Hero release date!

 

[Nicnac]

View attachment 230050he's in.

Don't do it to yourself in case he isn't.

 

[wynn728]

Is there any real reason logically that two characters can't come from the same company? I know everyone says that "Geno is disconfirmed, because Hero is the square rep" but I just have never believed that rhetoric. The characters are completely unrelated and hit different fans, just as Banjo and Steve would. Why would Nintendo give themselves arbitrary restrictions like that?

So they can work with other companies instead of the same ones. Nintendo and Sakurai probably want a variety of companies to be part of the DLC. Maybe they might work with Square for both Hero & Geno, especially seeing how Square Enix is going to benefit so much with the cross promotion Dragon Quest XI is getting in the west so SE might let Geno in as a good gesture for fans. But I doubt it.

Also I don't think that we'll get two Microsoft character in the Fighter Pass, but if we get a second Microsoft fighter it's going to be Master Chief over Steve.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

You can't argue for Smash Bros as a legitimate all-star crossover, intended to highlight icons and personalities, and defend Piranha Plant's inclusion.

Similarly, Nintendo can no longer sincerely frame inclusion in Smash Bros as some kind of distinct honor. I just don't buy how important and noteworthy an invite is in their eyes when they just threw a random unnamed enemy fighter in the game.

None of that is to say that PP couldn't have won me over. I'm usually a fan of wacky characters in fighting games, and my immediate disappointment over his reveal quickly led to curiosity and anticipation. Incineroar had seriously won me over after the game came out (I was ADAMANTLY against another ****ing Pokemon, especially a non-legendary, but his personality and moveset are absolutely dope), so I was ready for Plant to steal my heart.

Let me also say that a character can be poorly designed and still be an otherwise worthwhile addition. Little Mac's design just straight up DOES NOT WORK, and dozens of top players have gone in-depth dissecting why he is just a poorly-executed fighter. That said, he's FUN, he's UNIQUE, he's ICONIC, and he's a legitimate CHARACTER.

Piranha Plant has none of those redeeming traits. It's not individually unique, not individually iconic (a generic enemy TYPE can be iconic, but no INDIVIDUAL generic enemy can be iconic), has no individual personality, and the bit about fun is purely subjective, but the lack of top Plant players and its routine placement in the bottom 3 of tier lists say a lot about how much people enjoy using the character.

Piranha Plant was an interesting idea with a lot of potential that landed like a wet fart and died a severe death. Its inclusion only served to dilute the integrity of the cast, NOBODY talks or cares about the character anymore outside of specific discords, and I personally NEVER come across them online.

 

[TheCJBrine]

but if we get a second Microsoft fighter it's going to be Master Chief over Steve.

I know Chief is their mascot, but it could still be Steve; however I think he’s more-likely for next game so meh.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

I recently played SMRPG, and I honestly love every original character in the game.

 

[StormC]

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

I've dressed up as both Mallow and Geno for Halloween as a kid.

 

[AugustusB]

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

I don't get nostalgic for SMRPG or Geno, but I do get nostalgic for my childhood, if that makes sense.

My best friend LOVES SMRPG and I remember he would never be quiet about when we were younger (Elementary school). He would always try to get me to play it and I was just not that big into RPG's at the time. My first RPG was a game called Legend of Legaia (If anyone knows that title, you have class) and my friend was a big factor for that one.

Once I played SMRPG for the first time last year, I called him up and said, I should have played this game at our age. It was a wonderful story and the gameplay was unique for its time.

So my answer is, I get nostalgic for a time in my childhood and think of my best friend.

 

[Megadoomer]

You can't argue for Smash Bros as a legitimate all-star crossover, intended to highlight icons and personalities, and defend Piranha Plant's inclusion.

Smash Bros. hasn't focused exclusively on Nintendo all stars since Melee, at the absolute latest. The new franchises added to that game were a franchise that was completely exclusive to Japan, a character from a one-off NES launch title, and an amalgamation of twenty-plus games from a system that predated the Game Boy. None of those were Nintendo icons at Melee's launch

As well, Piranha Plant's inclusion doesn't seem like it would impact Geno's situation, seeing as both are owned by different companies. Sure, they're both Mario characters, but that doesn't seem to be as meaningful when Square-Enix has the final say on whether or not Geno is included. I'm not sure if all of this complaining about Piranha Plant belongs in this thread.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Smash Bros. hasn't focused exclusively on Nintendo all stars since Melee, at the absolute latest. The new franchises added to that game were a franchise that was completely exclusive to Japan, a character from a one-off NES launch title, and an amalgamation of twenty-plus games from a system that predated the Game Boy. None of those were Nintendo icons at Melee's launch

I didn't say anything about NINTENDO icons. And the series evolved. Just because it wasn't INITIALLY framed a certain way doesn't mean it can't be framed that way later. If we really wanna be pedantic, the game wasn't even originally developed to have pre-existing characters.

And sorry, my PP post was made much earlier but for some reason didn't actually post until just now.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Smash Bros. hasn't focused exclusively on Nintendo all stars since Melee, at the absolute latest. The new franchises added to that game were a franchise that was completely exclusive to Japan, a character from a one-off NES launch title, and an amalgamation of twenty-plus games from a system that predated the Game Boy. None of those were Nintendo icons at Melee's launch

Your point makes sense in theory, but at the same time, I don't think you can argue that any of those picks cheapen the value of being invited to Smash as much as Plant does. Even the most "WTF" of non-Plant inclusions at least had some sort of tangible legacy to them. By comparison, Plant is generic Mario enemy #3.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is getting too de-raily again. We know one is 1st party and one 3rd party. At this point, it's just rehashing the same thing over and over again while being off-topic. Move on, please. Take the iconic argument to a thread where it's not off-topic and(besides, this isn't even tangible related to Geno, it's talking about icons... which wasn't in context of Geno at all). There's no question that the previous debate was let gone on way too long and it clearly overtook the thread. No doubt I didn't help with this when I should have and I screwed up. And I apologize for that.

 

[AugustusB]

Here's a topic of discussion. IF we get a SMRPG Remake/Remaster, would you want voice overs in some fashion?

I think it would be neat to have something akin to Banjo and Kazooie. Have the Gughuhuhuuh noises as the text appears for characters. Of course, Mario will always be mute and pantomime like in the original.

Or something like Fire Emblem, where lines have some sort of voice that plays. Example: a laugh for something more jovial, a sigh for disbelief, etc.

Now, would Mallow's voice be more wispy and light? I could see Geno's being kind of hallow sounding, but bright and vibrant (Like the actual spirit is talking but the sound is bouncing around the inside of the doll)

 

[EarlTamm]

Here's a topic of discussion. IF we get a SMRPG Remake/Remaster, would you want voice overs in some fashion?

I think it would be neat to have something akin to Banjo and Kazooie. Have the Gughuhuhuuh noises as the text appears for characters. Of course, Mario will always be mute and pantomime like in the original.

Or something like Fire Emblem, where lines have some sort of voice that plays. Example: a laugh for something more jovial, a sigh for disbelief, etc.

Now, would Mallow's voice be more wispy and light? I could see Geno's being kind of hallow sounding, but bright a vibrant (Like the actual spirit is talking but the sound is bouncing around the inside of the doll)

I imagine they try some sort of limited voice acting at least, as that seems like the sort of thing they would try for a modern Mario RPG on the Switch.

 

[xpnc]

Don't do it to yourself in case he isn't.

Nah it's the Geno thread he's in

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

Geno is my mental mascot for Smash speculation and I played SMRPG based entirely off of Smash hype back in 07/08

Very nostalgic

 

[Thunderfang747]

You know, how many of you guys are nostalgic when it comes to Geno? Just a bit curious.

I personally have none, I just support Geno because I can relate to his fans. I really wanted Banjo for years and had to deal with being told it is impossible for a very long time. Now I feel Geno fans deserve their payoff too.

There's not, like, a hard and fast rule about it. My guess is Nintendo wants to use the Fighters Pass partially to strengthen relationships with certain companies and developers, and they may want to avoid doubling up to cast as wide of a net as possible. I think it's just an issue of likelihood and whether or not with two fighters left, one or both will double up. We'll see soon enough... or not soon enough because we still don't have a Hero release date!

This is definitely a fair possibility, but even it is speculation. No one here is Sakurai or Nintendo. It is also possible they are intending to simply please fans this pass. It is impossible to know for sure.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Happy Independence day to all of my fellow American Genobros/gals!

 

[Nicnac]

Happy Independence day to all of my fellow American Genobros/gals!

What time is it in your part of the US the now? There's still time for that 78 Day Cycle theory, right?

EDIT:. Also yeah, happy Independence Day to the Americans here!

 

[Deleted member]

What's this 78 day cycle I keep hearing about? Can someone please explain to me?