Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Fire Emblem is in a precarious position. Technically, there are only three fighters from the series, but the perception is that there are five fighters, and perception is everything. Had Lucina stayed a costume and Roy never added as DLC, it wouldn't be perceived as favoritism or over representation. Even so, I feel that three fighters for Fire Emblem is too much, Ike and Marth are enough, and probably the most globally popular lords. The next Smash brothers should either relegate Lucina and Roy back to costume status or at least only include them as DLC, so long as they don't cut more unique characters (Wolf / Mewtwo) while still keeping the clones. Should Fire Emblem get another fighter in the next Smash? Absolutely not, sorry, three is more than enough fan service for Fire Emblem fans, let's focus on others

 

[Opossum]

I never got the whole "saving someone for the sequel" argument when Sakurai's been on-record saying he hates the sequel mentality.

 

[Banjodorf]

Fire Emblem is in a precarious position. Technically, there are only three fighters from the series, but the perception is that there are five fighters, and perception is everything. Had Lucina stayed a costume and Roy never added as DLC, it wouldn't be perceived as favoritism or over representation. Even so, I feel that three fighters for Fire Emblem is too much, Ike and Marth are enough, and probably the most globally popular lords. The next Smash brothers should either relegate Lucina and Roy back to costume status or at least only include them as DLC, so long as they don't cut more unique characters (Wolf / Mewtwo) while still keeping the clones. Should Fire Emblem get another fighter in the next Smash? Absolutely not, sorry, three is more than enough fan service for Fire Emblem fans, let's focus on others

Roy was never "costume-status" to begin with, first of all.

Second, Sakurai decides how many characters a series gets, and the fact of the matter is that SakurI is a big fan of Fire Emblem, so if he continues to direct, you can expect them to keep getting characters.

I also doubt he's going to "demote" anyone, brcUse he's already stated he hates making cuts. I honestly expect Alph to be playable next time, rather than a costume.

I never got the whole "saving someone for the sequel" argument when Sakurai's been on-record saying he hates the sequel mentality.

A good point. Sakurai designs every Smash game as if it was his last, so it makes no sense for him to look at any character addition like this. If he wants to add Inklings he will, if not, maybe it'll happen later.

 

[Wolfie557]

The prob

Well I'm not as upset with Dark Pit as a clone. Sure, I would have liked him to be an alternate costume of Pit, but Dark Pit is an ACTUAL Clone of Pit (If you've played Kid Icarus Uprising) so him being a clone makes more sense than Lucina, although I wish he wielded his staff more besides in his Final Smash. Lucina and Chrom are part of Marth's bloodline, but Lucy is a unique character and is different than Marth in Fire Emblem.

Physical manifestation of Pit's Dark side. C

 

[IndigoSSB]

The whole "saving it for the next game" argument as never been a good one to begin with, it gives off an aura of an excuse. If it's passed on to the next game because of hardware limitations then I can accept that, but literally any character can be "saved" for the next game.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Roy was never "costume-status" to begin with, first of all.

He can function as a costume, that's the point. Custom special can function as alternates.

Second, Sakurai decides how many characters a series gets, and the fact of the matter is that SakurI is a big fan of Fire Emblem, so if he continues to direct, you can expect them to keep getting characters.

That's great, now Fire Emblem fans sound like entitled brats that expect their series to get newcomers exponentially while everyone else gets the shaft

I also doubt he's going to "demote" anyone, brcUse he's already stated he hates making cuts. I honestly expect Alph to be playable next time, rather than a costume.

That's why alternate costumes are the best option. I don't want clones becoming staples that push out better characters like Mewtwo

 

[Troykv]

Yeah, Chrom is built more like Ike. I wanted more FE characters from previous FE games
We have 2 Characters from Awakening
1 from Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem
1 from the Tellius games (PoR/RD)
And the classes you're talking about is from Fates right? Fates isn't even out yet everywhere so other classes would be better imo...
I would like Ephraim from Sacred Stones, Hector from Rekka no Ken, even Micaiah from Radiant Dawn. Anna would be interesting, she is popular and one of the oldest FE characters....

I want too see more from older Fire Emblem games, but looks really hard now unless something weird happens in the future.

 

[Jterr]

Issues of characters from older Fire Emblem games.
1) Recency. With a series that is changing casts every game or two. Sad to say but this will always be a huge factor. You won't hear a lot of requests for the likes of Sigurd when he was up there with Marth for Melee.

2) The series itself was very niche pre-Awakening. was and is the flagship lord. got LUCKY and has stuck because of veteranism. is a fan favorite and the only other Lord to star in more than one game. My Unit in FE12 and more polished in 13 from the most well-off game of the series? We knew we were getting an Awakening character because of its success, you couldn't have had that certainty with Ike. is Roy II in terms of situations. You are effectively locked for the most pronounced recent protagonist or, you try to stretch for the two characters of the series that have fan and maker popularity alongside MULTIPLE apperances: Tiki and Anna. Anyone else is just too small of an impact in the field.

3) Trickster was in Awakening. Merchant was in Awakening as non-playable, including the Apotheosis Anna who is the hardest boss of the FE series to date. The others were from Fates, because recency is SUCH a major thing with this series and Smash. But if I extended the points to Assassin or Bride, you'd get Bows either way. The tomes from her Mage classes. All you lose are the Hidden Weapons from Fates itself.

Roy was in Melee as advertisement for Binding Blade. Lucina was lucky to get in....
I know what you're saying, but I wanted other FE characters...

 

[Jterr]

I want too see more from older Fire Emblem games, but looks really hard now unless something weird happens in the future.

Maybe if Tellius gets a third game. Which would be awesome

 

[EvanBuck]

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

To prevent Steve from getting in, please consider signing and spreading the word.

 

[Schnee117]

That's why alternate costumes are the best option. I don't want clones becoming staples that push out better characters like Mewtwo

Clones are last minute additions to the roster. They took minimal development time. They didn't affect anyone.

Maybe if Tellius gets a third game. Which would be awesome

Or a remake/port of the games on the NX.

 

[A Distant Demon]

entitled brats t

Lol

I don't want clones becoming staples that push out better characters like Mewtwo

Good thing they never have and probably never will based on how clones are created then.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Fire Emblem is in a precarious position. Technically, there are only three fighters from the series, but the perception is that there are five fighters, and perception is everything. Had Lucina stayed a costume and Roy never added as DLC, it wouldn't be perceived as favoritism or over representation. Even so, I feel that three fighters for Fire Emblem is too much, Ike and Marth are enough, and probably the most globally popular lords. The next Smash brothers should either relegate Lucina and Roy back to costume status or at least only include them as DLC, so long as they don't cut more unique characters (Wolf / Mewtwo) while still keeping the clones. Should Fire Emblem get another fighter in the next Smash? Absolutely not, sorry, three is more than enough fan service for Fire Emblem fans, let's focus on others

I 100% agree with Roycina as Marth alts. Spacing characters that are designed to not reward or even punish spacing are incredibly poor designs. Just keep it to Marth and give Roy fire effects.

Your reasoning is a little weird tho lol

As for a new FE rep, it probably isn't appropriate to prioritize one over a lot of other characters, yes. But, if the roster goes to 60 or 70, adding someone like Lyn wouldn't be a poor choice. 4 reps out of 60/70 isn't an incredibly large amount. And this is even considering Robin will be added in the next Smash.

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

To prevent Steve from getting in, please consider signing and spreading the word.

Politics in Smash Specualtion always amuses me lol

 

[8-peacock-8]

How about no to the petition. Because it won't work. They never do for Smash.

 

[Aetheri]

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

To prevent Steve from getting in, please consider signing and spreading the word.

Oh look another pointless petition that Nintendo is going to ignore anyways...

I'm not a fan of the (albeit slim) possibility of Steve getting into Smash, but these petitions got to stop...it alludes to a sense of entitlement which is rather toxic amoung an admittedly already spoiled community, which alreafy has its fair share of complaints...

 

[Lady Kuki]

Aside from relevancy, I feel that FE suffers from inconsistent character choices. With other franchises, like DK and Kirby, fans more or less have decided on a particular character. I can't say that about FE though. It seems as if the fanbase is divided when it comes to wanted characters. You have people voting for characters like Ephraim and Hector, which despite their irrelevancy, sport unique weapons. You have people voting for Azura and Corrin because they're the most recent characters. Then, you have Tiki and Anna, characters who have appeared in way more FE games than the lords themselves, but I think the reason why Sakurai hadn't considered yet is because it's probably difficult to make move sets for those two. Anna sounds like a jack-of-all-trades character and I feel that she has too big of a move pool to choose from. I can at least see her as a skin for Robin, due to the Levin sword and all. However, I must admit: I have never played Awakening, ever so I'm kinda ignorant as to what type of move set she would have.

Tiki is weird, because she can turn into a dragon. That's unique enough as is, but in what way could she show this in her move set? Wouldn't a dragon be too big?

I would say that Sakurai should do as he pleases and add any FE character that feels appropriate, but I think he's already done that. At this point, I don't think any FE character is worth getting in as DLC, even though I wouldn't mind another one. FE has a representation, demand, and a relevancy problem. Corrin, Azura, Hector and Ephraim have to deal with relevancy, and Tiki and Anna have to deal with an overall lack of demand. Eh, I just think we should wait until Smash 5 until we get another character. By Smash 5, FE15, 16 or whatever may be around the corner, so we might be able to have characters to choose from.

 

[IndigoSSB]

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

To prevent Steve from getting in, please consider signing and spreading the word.

From the petition text:

"Smash brings us as a diverse group together. And this is why we strongly protest the possibility of Steve from Minecraft being included in Super Smash Brothers for Wii U and 3DS"

Preventing a 3rd party character for the sake of diversity...


"Speculation ran wild and the hope was that an announcement would be made regarding the date of the promised Smash Direct.
But those hopes and dreams were swiftly and suddenly dashed when it was revealed that Minecraft Wii U was the major announcement"

That's what you get for getting hyped without using common sense, as if the big news was going to be an announcement of the date of another announcement.


Don't get me wrong, I'm as much against Steve as the next guy, but...

 

[Halifax?]

One special drops a lasting hitbox dedicated to ink dispersal. Sounds similar to Snake's mines with different properties. Would Inklings be allowed only 1 ink puddle at a time as such? Could same color Inklings use each other's ink? Curious to see how they would turn out.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

That's what you get for getting hyped without using common sense, as if the big news was going to be an announcement of the date of another announcement.

People tend to hype themselves up and then play victim when they didn't get what they wanted announced. Granted, there's nothing wrong with getting hyped, but if you set your expectations too high, then you're bound to be very disappointed. In the end though, we have nobody but ourselves to blame.

 

[RoseyBetch]

That's why alternate costumes are the best option. I don't want clones becoming staples that push out better characters like Mewtwo

I highly doubt that the three costumes whose models were already in game have a few minor tweaks to make them separate characters is the reason any character got the shaft. Mewtwo wasn't excluded to make room for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina. I highly doubt making minor changes to characters to appease their fans and make the roster appear more diverse is going to stop the main priorities from being included.

 

[Banjodorf]

https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

To prevent Steve from getting in, please consider signing and spreading the word.

Stop this. For one, petitions for this sort of thing reek of a sense of entitlement, and second, Sakurai doesn't give a damn about petitions he's literally never going to see, and if he did, I'm sure he'd just shake his head at it.

Small groups of fans cannot dictate what the rest do or do not find appealing. Besides that, it's incredibly pointless to petition a possibility. Like, we don't even know if there's even going to be any Microsoft character. Jeez.

 

[ccthirteen]

Well, there is still hope for a Smash Direct today. Some services are about to go down at 4 PM EST (Smash goes down at 5 PM EST) and won't be back up until 9PM EST. So maybe we will see something during that time or shortly after relating to one or all of the games listed on the downtime schedule.

 

[Opossum]

Let's stop talking about the petition nonsense.

 

[Ura]

At this point, I highly doubt any playable character is going to become an alt in the future. Sakurai even put Doc in the game to not displease Melee fans who liked him so that just goes to show that he'll never turn characters in to alts.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, there is still hope for a Smash Direct today. Some services are about to go down at 4 PM EST (Smash goes down at 5 PM EST) and won't be back up until 9PM EST. So maybe we will see something during that time or shortly after relating to one or all of the games listed on the downtime schedule.

It's almost Tuesday in Europe and it's already Tuesday in Japan, we aren't getting any Smash news today

After playing the best game in the world, I have a question. Who'd be a better Xenoblade X character, Elma or Cross? I'd only want Cross if we get that sexy Side Slash animation

 

[Kurri ★]

At this point, I highly doubt any playable character is going to become an alt in the future. Sakurai even put Doc in the game to not displease Melee fans who liked him so that just goes to show that he'll never turn characters in to alts.

Alph, or did everyone forget about him?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Alph, or did everyone forget about him?

Alph wasn't a different character in Smash, SMX is saying 'any character that WAS playable in a previous game won't be demoted to an alt'

 

[Kurri ★]

Alph wasn't a different character in Smash, SMX is saying 'any character that WAS playable in a previous game won't be demoted to an alt'

Ah, my b

 

[Burruni]

Burruni

One special drops a lasting hitbox dedicated to ink dispersal. Sounds similar to Snake's mines with different properties. Would Inklings be allowed only 1 ink puddle at a time as such? Could same color Inklings use each other's ink? Curious to see how they would turn out.

Nintendo doesn't want to compromise Sakurai's Inkling vision for Smash 4, similar to Ice Climbers. Whereas Inklings and Ice Climbers surely would appear in Smash 5.

Except... there's a huge difference.
We don't have any knowledge or strong reason to believe that Inklings can't have some Territo-ink gameplay with 3DS or 8 Player Smash without causing FPS instability.
Ice Climbers were lost because they put far too much of a strain on RAM to function as they did. They aren't going to remove the gameplay mechanic that the characters were chosen for when it's a veteran.


Edit:

It's almost Tuesday in Europe and it's already Tuesday in Japan, we aren't getting any Smash news today

After playing the best game in the world, I have a question. Who'd be a better Xenoblade X character, Elma or Cross? I'd only want Cross if we get that sexy Side Slash animation

Elma.
She's the driving force of the plot and not Cross.
There are two kinds of "customizable protagonists" for a game.
Type A: - A character that's wroten a bit openly for relatability and standardly gives less customization but have a greater role in the plot. A customized character.

Type B: MMO characters, Bethesda Protagonists or Cross - An Avatar that you build up as you wish and often has the story happen around them as they follow it.

Considering Chapter 5 closes with what will likely be one of the biggest plot twists, there's little room for Cross to pull a Zanza, so to speak.

 

[Banjodorf]

Alph wasn't a different character in Smash, SMX is saying 'any character that WAS playable in a previous game won't be demoted to an alt'

I'd totally accept Alph as a Rock-Pikmin wielding clone in the future, like they originally thought.

But I'm huge on Pikmin so don't mind me.

 

[Mobes]

Ice Climbers were lost because they put far too much of a strain on RAM to function as they did. They aren't going to remove the gameplay mechanic that the characters were chosen for when it's a veteran.

Your underlined point is a solid one. The Smash devs aren't going to develop 'Popo' into a character without the main gimmick of Ice Climbers. It's the same reason Ganondorf will probably never not be a Cap. Falcon clone.

 

[Burruni]

I'd totally accept Alph as a Rock-Pikmin wielding clone in the future, like they originally thought.

But I'm huge on Pikmin so don't mind me.

At no point was Alph openly considered as a clone weilding Rock-Pikmin.

And doing so would be incredibly boring. Part of the crux of Olimar's gameplay is in the variance of his Pikmin. You either have him just replace purples and whites with rocks and pinks but they'd barely impact differences of the player or you have all of them being Rock Pikmin which takes away the point of the pikmin kinds.

It's worse than Lucina because she was at least largely popular.

 

[Banjodorf]

At no point was Alph openly considered as a clone weilding Rock-Pikmin.

And doing so would be incredibly boring. Part of the crux of Olimar's gameplay is in the variance of his Pikmin. You either have him just replace purples and whites with rocks and pinks but they'd barely impact differences of the player or you have all of them being Rock Pikmin which takes away the point of the pikmin kinds.

It's worse than Lucina because she was at least largely popular.

Huh; I thought I read that in a SourceGaming article or something. My mistake.

Though I'd argue Rocks and Pinks could easily be as different from Purps and Whites as they are in 3. But that's not a discussion for here.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Rock pikmin were planned for Olimar. This probably means they were also planned for alph but not as a separate character.

Rock Pikmin were planned but ultimately put on hold. It’s unknown if development had begun on these Pikmin, but they likely would have been added had there been more time. Rock Pikmin would have been heavy with short reach but high attack power.

source (gaming)
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/03/cutsmash4/

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

It's almost Tuesday in Europe and it's already Tuesday in Japan, we aren't getting any Smash news today

After playing the best game in the world, I have a question. Who'd be a better Xenoblade X character, Elma or Cross? I'd only want Cross if we get that sexy Side Slash animation

Elma just seems more likely Tbh

I haven't played Xenoblade X (and probably never will) so I don't know who would be the better character.

 

[Banjodorf]

Rock pikmin were planned for Olimar. This probably means they were also planned for alph but not as a separate character.

source (gaming)
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/03/cutsmash4/

That's the one. I suppose it was an assumption that Alph was perceived as a clone then. Probably untrue.

Well, it'd be neat to see them used in a future game, all the same.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm going to say that Steve in Smash is a lot more possible then most would like to believe. Minecraft is an absurdly popular franchise, Steve was legitimately voted for judging from Miiverse, and he's the only character that could create a reaction remotely on the level of Cloud and would probably be bigger then Cloud. Really, can we say he doesn't have a chance anymore?

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Clones are last minute additions to the roster. They took minimal development time. They didn't affect anyone.

Good thing they never have and probably never will based on how clones are created then.

I highly doubt that the three costumes whose models were already in game have a few minor tweaks to make them separate characters is the reason any character got the shaft. Mewtwo wasn't excluded to make room for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina. I highly doubt making minor changes to characters to appease their fans and make the roster appear more diverse is going to stop the main priorities from being included.

That's why I said it's the perception of said characters and their inclusion, and we know they take up a good amount of development anyway, since they weren't even included in Brawl, meaning they aren't as easy to include as people want you to believe. Also, Fire Emblem fans start to come off as entitled brats in this regard, if all we are going to hear is "well Sakurai like FE so you can bet FE is going to get new characters while all the veterans become staples even the clones"

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

So after sinking about 20 hours into Xenoblade X so far I cannot stress how much I want Elma in this game, not only is she a complete badass but the thought of a character who could switch between dual guns and dual blades on the fly sounds amazing to me. I know it probably won't work on the 3DS but hopefully they can either add her in smash 5 or find some sort of work around. Plus a Skell final smash and an X stage including music is amazing too. Just imagine being able to fly over all 5 continents.

Also I don't think Cross would work, they're way too customizable and the plot isn't really focused on them, they're just there, they don't have any proper dialogue and they don't really effect the story too much anyway

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's why I said it's the perception of said characters and their inclusion, and we know they take up a good amount of development anyway, since they weren't even included in Brawl, meaning they aren't as easy to include as people want you to believe. Also, Fire Emblem fans start to come off as entitled brats in this regard, if all we are going to hear is "well Sakurai like FE so you can bet FE is going to get new characters while all the veterans become staples even the clones"

lolno clones literally take much less time than unique characters, so if a clone character was given priority, that means either the character with lower priority was also a clone or there wasn't enough time to make a unique character
'wehweh FE people are entitled' yet the person yelling FE doesn't deserve it's content and whines about FE fans isn't entitled apparently. FE isn't even represented well, boring stages, barely any trophies, only Lyn as an AT and a few tracks, some of which are quite lackluster. It's only characters FE has