Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[pupNapoleon]

It is not entirely hypocrisy. King K. Rool is already in the game and Donkey Kong has furthered its franchise without his presence despite the fact that they could. Banjo and Kazooie is in that state of limbo based on a third-party company buying out the developer behind the product. King K. Rool is not longer a prominent aspect of Donkey Kong whereas Banjo is still a major part of Banjo and Kazooie. He is irrelevant because there were no subsequent Banjo games. King K. Rool is irrelevant because Nintendo had no further use for him.

Just because two ideas are contradicting does not automatically make the sentiment hypocritical. Different circumstances lead to different conclusions. King K. Rool's relevance was hardly the only thing I mentioned that does not favor his inclusion.

Id argue that Banjo was booted out of his own series with Yooka being a vclear followup. "Rextro sixtyfourus" (a Yooka character) beckons a very specific system.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Why do people always ignore casuals? Smash Boards and YouTube comment sections don't sum up the majority of the smash community. I'm pretty sure there are tons of casual fans that voted for Daisy, Dixie Kong, Toad, and even Goku! I honestly have my doubts that characters like Shantae or Bandanna Dee will make into the game because of this.

Well, what's your definition of casual? To me, a casual Smash fan is one who couldn't care less about the characters, meta etc. and just plays the game. They may not even watch Nintendo directs either; either because they don't care or because they aren't even aware of the Nintendo Direct's existance. Basically, I just think of a person who picks up Smash, plays it for about an hour, then moves onto something else.

Then again, I hardly know any gamers in real life. Most of the "gamers" I know play all sorts of games, and do not know or care about things like E3 or Nintendo Direct.

 

[Gimmick]

Well, what's your definition of casual? To me, a casual Smash fan is one who couldn't care less about the characters, meta etc. and just plays the game. They may not even watch Nintendo directs either; either because they don't care or because they aren't even aware of the Nintendo Direct's existance. Basically, I just think of a person who picks up Smash, plays it for about an hour, then moves onto something else.

Then again, I hardly know any gamers in real life. Most of the "gamers" I know play all sorts of games, and do not know or care about things like E3 or Nintendo Direct.

Eh. I know quite a few people who aren't avid Nintendo fans but voted on the ballot. Most of there responses were things like Goku, Toad, Batman, etc. I honestly can't say.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Eh. I know quite a few people who aren't avid Nintendo fans but voted on the ballot. Most of there responses were things like Goku, Toad, Batman, etc. I honestly can't say.

Woah, really? My non-Nintendo friends didn't even know about the ballot. Pretty much all of my friends who knew about the ballot were also Nintendo fans. The ballot was announced on the Direct, and I'm pretty sure that if you like Nintendo, you'd know about their Directs at some point, haha.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo sadly dosen't really pay attention to K. Rool in modern times. Which breaks my heart. But it is what it is, I wish he could, come back in the game and be a retro villain revived who would then be featured in future Smash games, and Donkey Kong Country, but I love Nintendo I do think K. Rool is being consindered but we'll see.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Let's be honest, if K. Rool misses Smash this time around, he's very likely to get a revival proper in the next DKC game should it happen.

Which is likely to lead to an eventual Smash placement.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

The honest truth? I almost did mention Banjo.
(Quite a converation starter that post was, n'est-ce pas?)

 

[S_B]

I'm hoping for KRool because he's...

A) The only heavyweight character who has even half of a snowball's chance in hell of inclusion and I'm a huge fan of HW characters.

B) The only HW character who may actually prove to be heavier than Bowser, even.

C) Since he's being added after launch, he might not be utter **** like most of the heavyweights right now.

Sakurai has completely ****ed up all of the true heavies (Bowser, D3, and DK) and has only recently started to UN-**** DK to the point where you can expect to see him in tournaments on any kind of semi-regular basis.

It'd also be neat to see BK or Issac, but again, can anyone name another HW character (3rd party or otherwise) who has half a chance of inclusion?

Also, I agree with the assessment that there just aren't many Nintendo characters left to add who would even begin to count as "iconic".

 

[CommanderZaktan]

....There's no official results, the best we have for estimates are the two big ones done by SourceGaming.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/ for japan
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/08/sgpollingresults1/ for the west.

Thanks, but that's not what I'm looking for. It's a poll for US, Japan, and International.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm hoping for KRool because he's...

A) The only heavyweight character who has even half of a snowball's chance in hell of inclusion and I'm a huge fan of HW characters.

B) The only HW character who may actually prove to be heavier than Bowser, even.

C) Since he's being added after launch, he might not be utter **** like most of the heavyweights right now.

Sakurai has completely ****ed up all of the true heavies (Bowser, D3, and DK) and has only recently started to UN-**** DK to the point where you can expect to see him in tournaments on any kind of semi-regular basis.

It'd also be neat to see BK or Issac, but again, can anyone name another HW character (3rd party or otherwise) who has half a chance of inclusion?

Also, I agree with the assessment that there just aren't many Nintendo characters left to add who would even begin to count as "iconic".

I agree I love heavyweights too, they may seem like moving targets, but when used effectively their a blast and great enjoyment to play, and this lovable crocodile who I would main would be no different a great heavyweight, who would be a blast to play, and who's one of the final iconic Nintendo villains who hasn't been added.

 

[S_B]

I agree I love heavyweights too, they may seem like moving targets, but when used effectively their a blast and great enjoyment to play, and this lovable crocodile who I would main would be no different a great heavyweight, who would be a blast to play, and who's one of the final iconic Nintendo villains who hasn't been added.

Yeah, and SSB4 needs more villains in general. The ratio is HORRIBLY lopsided at this point...

 

[A Distant Demon]

Eh. I know quite a few people who aren't avid Nintendo fans but voted on the ballot. Most of there responses were things like Goku, Toad, Batman, etc. I honestly can't say.

Toad is grouped up with Goku and Batman

What an interesting comparison. . .

 

[Deleted member]

December can't come soon enough.

 

[S_B]

Toad is grouped up with Goku and Batman

What an interesting comparison. . .

A Duck Hunt-styled character where Toad rides upon the shoulders of Goku and Batman (who stand shoulder to shoulder)?

You might just have something, there...

....There's no official results, the best we have for estimates are the two big ones done by SourceGaming.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/ for japan
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/08/sgpollingresults1/ for the west.

If this is accurate, then I'd say KRool is a shoe-in.

Japan comes before the US in Sakurai's eyes (Sakurai has actually been known for balancing the game around the Japanese tournament scene, FYI...) so I'd actually be MORE surprised to NOT see him at this point...

 

[Deleted member]

Toad is grouped up with Goku and Batman

What an interesting comparison. . .

Yeah, although they would be interesting, they would never get in. But eh? It would be cool to see Toad, I would want it to be Captain Toad personally maybe one day!

 

[Burruni]

A Duck Hunt-styled character where Toad rides upon the shoulders of Goku and Batman (who stand shoulder to shoulder)?

You might just have something, there...



If this is accurate, then I'd say KRool is a shoe-in.

Japan comes before the US in Sakurai's eyes (Sakurai has actually been known for balancing the game around the Japanese tournament scene, FYI...) so I'd actually be MORE surprised to NOT see him at this point...

Keep in mind that the Western poll... less so represents votes and a sense of how the western community feels of characters.

 

[Deleted member]

That makes sense, I know Masahiro Sakurai, is taken and looking at all characters, and all votes for Regions, but we'll see what happens ultimately in the end.

 

[Halifax?]

~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Burruni]

Will Krystal make any appearance this year?

Krystal Will Not be in Star Fox Zero

Considering she was last seen in 2008, she's got the time gap at K. Rool levels without the impact and importance to her series.

 

[Andinus]

Honestly, if all we see in December is Wolf and an unexpected surprise like Snake or the Ice Climbers, and Sakurai calls it a day, I'd be more than happy with the end product of smash 4.

 

[ShinyRegice]

I know it's early but whatever, here's my bingo sheet for the December Smash livestream:

Plus posting this sheet early allows me to put a case about its potential release

Anyway I really hope the "we're only getting third-party DLC newcomers because Nintendo characters aren't recognizable enough" theory turns out to be false. I used to be very protective against more third-parties but after Cloud's reveal I've accepted that the actual third-party philosophy in Smash wasn't going to be the one I used to imagine and I've accepted them as something pretty much essential in a game that's supposed to be the most famous and respected massive crossover of the video game industry, no matter how iconic Nintendo characters like Mario, Link, DK, etc. may be. That said, I don't think third-party characters should overshadow Nintendo characters in a game whose main appeal is to be a massive Nintendo crossover, and I (and I'm sure many other poeple who are supporting specific Nintendo characters) would feel underwhelmed if third-parties are going to outprioritze first-parties that badly just because "we need characters everyone can recognize".

 

[YoshiandToad]

Eh. I know quite a few people who aren't avid Nintendo fans but voted on the ballot. Most of there responses were things like Goku, Toad, Batman, etc. I honestly can't say.

Sound like sensible, intellectual and handsome individuals to me.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Eh. I know quite a few people who aren't avid Nintendo fans but voted on the ballot. Most of there responses were things like Goku, Toad, Batman, etc. I honestly can't say.

Wow! Really?

Goku and Batman aren't even video game characters!

As for Toad...well, Sakurai could make a good moveset for him, but I honestly doubt it...

 

[NintenZ]

King K. Rool is irrelevant, sure, however with his overwhelming popularity, his importance as a villan overall, and the fact that @BaganSmashBros' K. Rool mod confirms that he'd work as a fighter, not to mention the fact that the costume was most likely a coincidence that just happened to be pre-ballot, leads me to believe that we'll get him as a DLC character. Not to mention the new costume moreorless introduced him to audiences that are unfamiliar with the character, so it'd work out perfectly. I believe he'll come at some point in time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

King K. Rool is definetly possible and I'm sure Sakurai would give a lot of love to the DKC series when making his moveset. He might even be fun to play!

But I don't care who's next, I just can't wait to see who the ballot winners* are!

Also, I'm sure we'll get two characters before the ballot winners* since the additional 2 character slots were added before the ballot ended!

*When I say "ballot winners" I mean the character(s) Sakurai chose to make because, in a way, they "won" Sakurai's interest among all the countless suggestions.

 

[Burruni]

King K. Rool is irrelevant, sure, however with his overwhelming popularity, his importance as a villan overall, and the fact that @BaganSmashBros' K. Rool mod confirms that he'd work as a fighter, not to mention the fact that the costume was most likely a coincidence that just happened to be pre-ballot, leads me to believe that we'll get him as a DLC character. Not to mention the new costume moreorless introduced him to audiences that are unfamiliar with the character, so it'd work out perfectly. I believe he'll come at some point in time.

Irrrelevant is a strong word.
He's missed the role as Final boss for 3 DK games since the SNES era. It's just that he's missed the two most recent that people are quick to toss around the word.
The fact that he was chosen as a costume and his trophy alone refers to him as "DK's Bowser," should say that he isn't irrelevant for his series.

 

[NintenZ]

Irrrelevant is a strong word.
He's missed the role as Final boss for 3 DK games since the SNES era. It's just that he's missed the two most recent that people are quick to toss around the word.
The fact that he was chosen as a costume and his trophy alone refers to him as "DK's Bowser," should say that he isn't irrelevant for his series.

Irrelevant, as in he's not very prominent to the D. K. series as he was before, that's what I mean. From what you're saying it makes it sound as though I said he was completely forgotten, which is not what I said.

 

[Burruni]

Irrelevant, as in he's not very prominent to the D. K. series as he was before, that's what I mean. From what you're saying it makes it sound as though I said he was completely forgotten, which is not what I said.

Irrelevant means not important.
He still is if Nintendo is identifying him as "DK's Bowser."
That was my point, not necessarily for you but as a statement for those who throw this term around when it isn't applicable yet.
The massive outcry for his return since early reveals of Returns and Smash certainly says that the fanbase for the series deem him plenty important.
Just food for thought.

 

[NintenZ]

Irrelevant means not important.
He still is if Nintendo is identifying him as "DK's Bowser."
That was my point, not necessarily for you but as a statement for those who throw this term around when it isn't applicable yet.
The massive outcry for his return since early reveals of Returns and Smash certainly says that the fanbase for the series deem him plenty important.
Just food for thought.

Alright, thank you for giving me clarification. However would you agree with me on him selling well?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Alright, thank you for giving me clarification. However would you agree with me on him selling well?

Sell well? It'd be the new "IT PRINTS MONEY!" meme

 

[Burruni]

Alright, thank you for giving me clarification. However would you agree with me on him selling well?

Probably the most requested newcomer in total.
Almost certainly the most requested first party newcomer.
A weight class and probably play style for which there's been demand ( being the heaviest newcomer iirc).
Villain of demand
Honestly, for "older" Nintendo fans he'd appeal akin to vets and for "fresh" players he'll have a bigger pull than or most likely.
Don't see why he wouldn't.

 

[NintenZ]

Probably the most requested newcomer in total.
Almost certainly the most requested first party newcomer.
A weight class and probably play style for which there's been demand ( being the heaviest newcomer iirc).
Villain of demand
Honestly, for "older" Nintendo fans he'd appeal akin to vets and for "fresh" players he'll have a bigger pull than or most likely.
Don't see why he wouldn't.

Not to mention the costume did introduce him to new audiences, so that's a thing.

 

[Burruni]

Two semi-related bits I want to say.

1) For any argument against a character being picked because of the "casual audience," remember how... selective the information around the Ballot was given. It was on the April direct of 2015, and on the website. That's it. You'd have to be fairly invested into Smash to come across it given there wasn't even an in-game notice for it. This is not going to be something that is going to have a massive casual input.

2)

This makes me sad that we don't have Ganon in either HW or Smash because this proves some of the awe power behind what he could have. (Let's hope after K. Rool the community bolsters behind him as a neglected big villain).

"But Burruni you constantly say don't use HW as a reference for Impa"
That's because her Naginata and Greatsword are exclusive to it.
This is the Trident of Power that Ganon is known for and recognized with.

 

[NintenZ]

Two semi-related bits I want to say.

1) For any argument against a character being picked because of the "casual audience," remember how... selective the information around the Ballot was given. It was on the April direct of 2015, and on the website. That's it. You'd have to be fairly invested into Smash to come across it given there wasn't even an in-game notice for it. This is not going to be something that is going to have a massive casual input.

2)

This makes me sad that we don't have Ganon in either HW or Smash because this proves some of the awe power behind what he could have. (Let's hope after K. Rool the community bolsters behind him as a neglected big villain).

"But Burruni you constantly say don't use HW as a reference for Impa"
That's because her Naginata and Greatsword are exclusive to it.
This is the Trident of Power that Ganon is known for and recognized with.

Still though, I feel it should be profitable for all audiences if they want to make them successful, which is why that's brought up.

 

[IndigoSSB]

Still though, I feel it should be profitable for all audiences if they want to make them successful, which is why that's brought up.

I don't know about that, if they gave the so called "casual audience" that much importance, then for what good reason would they have to bring veterans like Roy and Lucas? Certainly not because they wanted to please FE and Earthbound fans. Most of the veterans hold more relevancy to people that have been play Smash for a while.

 

[NintenZ]

I don't know about that, if they gave the so called "casual audience" that much importance, then for what good reason would they have to bring veterans like Roy and Lucas? Certainly not because they wanted to please FE and Earthbound fans. Most of the veterans hold more relevancy to people that have been play Smash for a while.

That is exactly what I meant. The veterans are obviously well known to the casual audiences, so bringing them back would be low financial risk.

 

[Burruni]

You just contradicted your whole post. That is exactly what I meant. The veterans are obviously well known to the casual audiences, so bringing them back would be low financial risk.

Shori was referring to "new" casual fans. Those around and under 10 years of age for whom this is their first Smash game. (Though, those closer to 10 likely could've had Brawl but Melee was still 14 years ago).

were just characters they'd not know about. (especially since these two were japan-only protagonists) but sold because Nintendo was pushing them as DLC.

Granted, I shouldn't be speaking for someoen in case I misunderstand.

 

[NintenZ]

Shori was referring to "new" casual fans. Those around and under 10 years of age for whom this is their first Smash game.

were just characters they'd not know about. (especially since these two were japan-only protagonists) but sold because Nintendo was pushing them as DLC.

Granted, I shouldn't be speaking for someoen in case I misunderstand.

Still, that's how they were marketed as, veterans. Characters brought back from previous games. So I don't think there'd be any problems in that category due to how they were marketed.

 

[Burruni]

Still, that's how they were marketed as, veterans. Characters brought back from previous games. So I don't think there'd be any problems in that category due to how they were marketed.

How were they, ormarketed as veterans?
Because Sakurai spoke about bringing them back in the Smash directs (april 2015 and E3 2015)?
The casual audience wouldn't have seen those, given what we're categorizing here as casual.
They were just characters that didn't come with a stage, like got Suzaku Castle.

 

[NintenZ]

How were they, ormarketed as veterans?
Because Sakurai spoke about bringing them back in the Smash directs (april 2015 and E3 2015)?
The casual audience wouldn't have seen those, given what we're categorizing here as casual.
They were just characters that didn't come with a stage, like got Suzaku Castle.

Didn't they say in the descriptions that, "Roy returns for the first time since Melee!" and "Lucas returns from Brawl!" though?