Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[IndigoSSB]

You just contradicted your whole post. That is exactly what I meant. The veterans are obviously well known to the casual audiences, so bringing them back would be low financial risk.

If you think "casuals" would know the veterans well, then our definitions differ.

A lot of the people that play this game are very young, we just don't notice it because we base a lot of our impression of the community on the tournament scenes. It's not just age either, most of my friends prefer ps4 and xbox1 games where all of the FPS games are at. Despite that they all find Smash bros to be really fun, even though they all have minimal competitive experience.

EDIT: Burruni 'd me, that's basically what I wanted to say.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

In my view the most likely characters are as follows(in no particular order):

• Dixie
• K Rool
• Wolf
• Bandanna Dee
• Shantae
• Rayman
• Snake
• Ivysuar + Squirtle
• Inkling
• Lara Croft
• Impa
• Bayonetta

Actually, those are the only ones I actually can see as happening.

One of these things is not like the other

Sidenote, I'd throw Krystal in there too

 

[NintenZ]

One of these things is not like the other

Sidenote, I'd throw Krystal in there too

I doubt we're getting Krystal.

If you think "casuals" would know the veterans well, then our definitions differ.

A lot of the people that play this game are very young, we just don't notice it because we base a lot of our impression of the community on the tournament scenes. It's not just age either, most of my friends prefer ps4 and xbox1 games where all of the FPS games are at. Despite that they all find Smash bros to be really fun, even though they all have minimal competitive experience.

Fair enough, I see your point.

 

[Burruni]

Didn't they say in the descriptions that, "Roy returns for the first time since Melee!" and "Lucas returns from Brawl!" though?

...Did they?
I legitimately don't know.

Checking the official site's dlc info

"Lucas, the boy with psychic powers, returns to Super Smash Bros.! Keep enemies where you want them with his tricky skills and Rope Snake, and then deliver a winning blow with his up smash attack!"
Certainly, Lucas cited as a veteran.

"Roy, the Young Lion, makes a long-awaited comeback with a redesigned outfit! Use his talent for close-quarters battle to overwhelm opponents with powerful flame-based attacks!"
Roy's however, doesn't say what his comeback is from.

(Edit: Just to note
"The Psychic-type Pokémon Mewtwo makes its grand entrance! Make it Mega Evolve into Mega Mewtwo Y in its Final Smash, and then use Psystrike to blow away the opposition!"
Mewtwo's doesn't do anything to say he was a veteran)

And, devil's advocate: If they were Veterans or Newcomers, if this was someone's first Smash game, cut veterans would be new fighters to them.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I doubt we're getting Krystal.

Fair enough, I see your point.

And I would disagree, Krystal tends to be one of the more popular first party newcomers. plus she's got moveset potential to go along with it

If Impa and Shantae of all characters are on that list she should be too

 

[Kenith]

Two semi-related bits I want to say.

1) For any argument against a character being picked because of the "casual audience," remember how... selective the information around the Ballot was given. It was on the April direct of 2015, and on the website. That's it. You'd have to be fairly invested into Smash to come across it given there wasn't even an in-game notice for it. This is not going to be something that is going to have a massive casual input.

2)

This makes me sad that we don't have Ganon in either HW or Smash because this proves some of the awe power behind what he could have. (Let's hope after K. Rool the community bolsters behind him as a neglected big villain).

"But Burruni you constantly say don't use HW as a reference for Impa"
That's because her Naginata and Greatsword are exclusive to it.
This is the Trident of Power that Ganon is known for and recognized with.

Honestly, what I personally want is for all the Zelda characters to get Smash-original designs that pull mainly from the 3D games.
Then Ganondorf gets decloned, with a Trident-wielding moveset. He keeps his current unique moves but replaces the still Falcon-esque moves with the Trident and magic.
Ganon is now a transformation Final Smash like Giga Bowser and Giga Mac.
Best of both worlds. Everyone wins.

 

[Burruni]

Honestly, what I personally want is for all the Zelda characters to get Smash-original designs that pull mainly from the 3D games.
Then Ganondorf gets decloned, with a Trident-wielding moveset. He keeps his current unique moves but replaces the still Falcon-esque moves with the Trident and magic.
Ganon is now a transformation Final Smash like Giga Bowser and Giga Mac.
Best of both worlds. Everyone wins.

I still say the amount of work to "fully declone" would be better spent into Ganon as a newcomer.
Sorry, Black Shadow supporters.
That's just me and probably bias because I like and enjoy ThunderCougarFalconDorf.

 

[Kenith]

I still say the amount of work to "fully declone" would be better spent into Ganon as a newcomer.
Sorry, Black Shadow supporters.
That's just me and probably bias because I like and enjoy ThunderCougarFalconDorf.

Well I'm one of those annoying people that think Falcondorf is a blemish on an otherwise great roster and would rather see a good Ganondorf than Ganon. But only if he does have the trident.
Otherwise I don't care. Make Ganon.

Just...give me a unique Ganon of some kind. Falcondorf is comical but jokes do stop being funny.

 

[NintenZ]

...Did they?
I legitimately don't know.

Checking the official site's dlc info

"Lucas, the boy with psychic powers, returns to Super Smash Bros.! Keep enemies where you want them with his tricky skills and Rope Snake, and then deliver a winning blow with his up smash attack!"
Certainly, Lucas cited as a veteran.

"Roy, the Young Lion, makes a long-awaited comeback with a redesigned outfit! Use his talent for close-quarters battle to overwhelm opponents with powerful flame-based attacks!"
Roy's however, doesn't say what his comeback is from.

And, devil's advocate: If they were Veterans or Newcomers, if this was someone's first Smash game, cut veterans would be new fighters to them.

I suppose so, but I'd like to move on actually, because I want to discuss this...

And I would disagree, Krystal tends to be one of the more popular first party newcomers. plus she's got moveset potential to go along with it

If Impa and Shantae of all characters are on that list she should be too

Krystal... Where do I begin...
First off, I don't really like Krystal, but it's just my opinion, if you like her that's fine, let's agree to disagree, secondly, she's not as popular as she was in Brawl, as polls tend to show that there's a large difference, she's popular, but not as much as others make her out to be, thirdly, she's been written out of the reboot, as she's suposed to have no appearance in Zero, fourth, she's overshadowed by Wolf, who has much more popularity then her, and fifth, Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters, and Shantae is one of the more popular third-parties, Krystal doesn't really stand much of a chance compared to Wolf, at least that's how I see it. If you don't agree with me however that's fine, we can agree, to disagree. (Also, I don't see why people are requesting her, I only see that people are requesting her for the sake of having a female Star Fox character, and because she has a weapon that isn't a gun, and I just don't get why...)

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I suppose so, but I'd like to move on actually, because I want to discuss this...

Krystal... Where do I begin...
First off, I don't really like Krystal, but it's just my opinion, if you like her that's fine, let's agree to disagree, secondly, she's not as popular as she was in Brawl, as polls tend to show that there's a large difference, she's popular, but not as much as others make her out to be, thirdly, she's been written out of the reboot, as she's suposed to have no appearance in Zero, fourth, she's overshadowed by Wolf, who has much more popularity then her, and fifth, Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters, and Shantae is one of the more popular third-parties, Krystal doesn't really stand much of a chance compared to Wolf, at least that's how I see it. If you don't agree with me however that's fine, we can agree, to disagree.

She's written out of the reboot for now as it's already been confirmed that if there's a sequel she's going to be in it, might I remind you that K Rool was written out of DK canon and yet he's still widely seen as likely and we have no word on his disappearance. Wolf is a veteran so if he were to be put in he would require very little work to begin with, just some tweaks, getting both is possible. And while Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters and Shantae third parties (for whatever reason) but this is likeliness not popularity and then even then Krystal is miles ahead of Impa in that regard too. As you said we can agree to disagree as I can't see this discussion going anywhere good.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

She's written out of the reboot for now as it's already been confirmed that if there's a sequel she's going to be in it, might I remind you that K Rool was written out of DK canon and yet he's still widely seen as likely and we have no word on his disappearance. Wolf is a veteran so if he were to be put in he would require very little work to begin with, just some tweaks, getting both is possible. And while Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters and Shantae third parties (for whatever reason) but this is likeliness not popularity and then even then Krystal is miles ahead of Impa in that regard too. As you said we can agree to disagree as I can't see this discussion going anywhere good.

First of all, wasn't it that they'd like to put her in a sequel instead of her 100% being in? Second, I have to say, Krystal's slowly being the new Ridley, getting more flak over the years, Ridley had 'too big' and Krystal's getting more 'furry bait' arguments. I don't care if Krystal gets in, as long as Wolf is first

 

[NintenZ]

She's written out of the reboot for now as it's already been confirmed that if there's a sequel she's going to be in it, might I remind you that K Rool was written out of DK canon and yet he's still widely seen as likely and we have no word on his disappearance. Wolf is a veteran so if he were to be put in he would require very little work to begin with, just some tweaks, getting both is possible. And while Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters and Shantae third parties (for whatever reason) but this is likeliness not popularity and then even then Krystal is miles ahead of Impa in that regard too. As you said we can agree to disagree as I can't see this discussion going anywhere good.

All I said was that I wasn't that keen on Krystal, if you don't agree with me, then that's fine, by all means opinons are golden, and I respect yours. But still, K. Rool wasn't written out, they just swapped him out for other villans is all. He could return, but we don't know when/if he will. That's all I have to really say though. You can support Kystal if you want, no matter if my opinion differs.

 

[Kenith]

You know it's really depressing Sakurai seems to have some kind of apathy towards Wolf.
He basically only got in Brawl because there wasn't enough time to make Krystal.

I think he might still get in as DLC, but I don't think it will be because they thought he was a particularly valuable inclusion.
Which is odd, because I'd definitely put Wolf above Krystal, much less some of the characters already in Smash.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

First of all, wasn't it that they'd like to put her in a sequel instead of her 100% being in? Second, I have to say, Krystal's slowly being the new Ridley, getting more flak over the years, Ridley had 'too big' and Krystal's getting more 'furry bait' arguments. I don't care if Krystal gets in, as long as Wolf is first

Probably should've worded that better, she's likely to return in a sequel. At least the 'too big' argument is somewhat justifiable though, at least more so than 'furry bait' and 'rule 34' (Can I just say that someone actually looked this up and found that Peach, Samus, Link, Sonic, Lucario and pikachu all had more posts, just saying)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know it's really depressing Sakurai seems to have some kind of apathy towards Wolf.
He basically only got in Brawl because there wasn't enough time to make Krystal.

I think he might still get in as DLC, but I don't think it will be because they thought he was a particularly valuable inclusion.
Which is odd, because I'd definitely put Wolf above Krystal, much less some of the characters already in Smash.

Actually, didn't Sakurai compare Krystal to a regular Waddle Dee? Probably missed context though

 

[NintenZ]

Probably should've worded that better, she's likely to return in a sequel. At least the 'too big' argument is somewhat justifiable though, at least more so than 'furry bait' and 'rule 34' (Can I just say that someone actually looked this up and found that Peach, Samus, Link, Sonic, Lucario and pikachu all had more posts, just saying)

I'm not a big fan of her design, but I wouldn't consider her, "Furry Bait" or "Rule 34".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Probably should've worded that better, she's likely to return in a sequel. At least the 'too big' argument is somewhat justifiable though, at least more so than 'furry bait' and 'rule 34' (Can I just say that someone actually looked this up and found that Peach, Samus, Link, Sonic, Lucario and pikachu all had more posts, just saying)

My point is, the character is getting more flak, and second, I REALLY don't need to know about furry porn, creeps me out

 

[NintenZ]

My point is, the character is getting more flak, and second, I REALLY don't need to know about furry porn, creeps me out

Trust me, that's an area you don't want to visit.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Actually, didn't Sakurai compare Krystal to a regular Waddle Dee? Probably missed context though

He was essentially saying that you could say 'why isn't X in the game' about any character and used waddle dee and baby peach as examples, He obviously wasn't going to mention popular picks

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He was essentially saying that you could say 'why isn't X in the game' about any character and used waddle dee and baby peach as examples, He obviously wasn't going to mention popular picks

Ironic as a Waddle Dee is a pretty popular request now lol. However, wouldn't that mean Krystal, a popular character, was compared to nobodies? I think this means Krystal's fans are more minor than we thought then

 

[pupNapoleon]

Let's be honest, if K. Rool misses Smash this time around, he's very likely to get a revival proper in the next DKC game should it happen.

Which is likely to lead to an eventual Smash placement.

If we get another DKCR title any time soon. We all expect a sequel, but who would be at the helm? It seems Retro could do it, surely, but do they actually want to create another DKCR? It seems to me, that as much love as trilogies receive for being trilogies, every public statement Retro has made indicates they are not working on a previously established franchise (that is, not one they have worked on prior).

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Ironic as a Waddle Dee is a pretty popular request now lol. However, wouldn't that mean Krystal, a popular character, was compared to nobodies? I think this means Krystal's fans are more minor than we thought then

Not really, they were random examples, he didn't mean anything by them, he obviously wasn't going to mention characters that or were popular at the time cause that would cause more controversy than necessary. He wasn't comparing them at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not really, they were random examples, he didn't mean anything by them, he obviously wasn't going to mention characters that or were popular at the time cause that would cause more controversy than necessary. He wasn't comparing them at all.

The article was 'it's like asking why a waddle dee or baby peach isn't in the game'. That's called a comparison, hate to break it to you, not to mention by saying Ridley wouldn't work, we know Sakurai isn't afraid of controversy about characters

 

[Aetheri]

If we get another DKCR title any time soon. We all expect a sequel, but who would be at the helm? It seems Retro could do it, surely, but do they actually want to create another DKCR? It seems to me, that as much love as trilogies receive for being trilogies, every public statement Retro has made indicates they are not working on a previously established franchise (that is, not one they have worked on prior).

Still wondering what Retro's up to...people expected news back in e3 on the game Retro's working on, and even this past Direct we still have no word...

I have heard they are indeed still interested in working on Metroid again...If only Sakimoto didn't hijack the franchise from them...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

The article was 'it's like asking why a waddle dee or baby peach isn't in the game'. That's called a comparison, hate to break it to you, not to mention by saying Ridley wouldn't work, we know Sakurai isn't afraid of controversy about characters

Except he could've said literally any character in their place and it would've meant the same thing, there was no direct comparison, not to mention he stated in that same interview that she was considered to be playable anyway and we certainly know Waddle dee and baby peach weren't

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Except he could've said literally any character in their place and it would've meant the same thing, there was no direct comparison, not to mention he stated in that same interview that she was considered to be playable anyway and we certainly know Waddle dee and baby peach weren't

Need a link then

 

[pupNapoleon]

Will Krystal make any appearance this year?

Krystal Will Not be in Star Fox Zero

Nintendo has such a history and propensity for trying to surprise us, that I feel I cannot trust anything they say. Any direct statement like this is just as much a lie in my head as it could be the truth. Does anyone else feel this way? They desire the 'surprise' factor so much, that I just don't believe anything they say that seems to be a way to preemptively quell fans.

Also, wanting to add Krystal to a sequel, makes it clear he enjoys the character, and this leads me to think (that if she is not in the base game) she will be in a DLC bundle for the game.

I know it's early but whatever, here's my bingo sheet for the December Smash livestream:

Plus posting this sheet early allows me to put a case about its potential release

Anyway I really hope the "we're only getting third-party DLC newcomers because Nintendo characters aren't recognizable enough" theory turns out to be false. I used to be very protective against more third-parties but after Cloud's reveal I've accepted that the actual third-party philosophy in Smash wasn't going to be the one I used to imagine and I've accepted them as something pretty much essential in a game that's supposed to be the most famous and respected massive crossover of the video game industry, no matter how iconic Nintendo characters like Mario, Link, DK, etc. may be. That said, I don't think third-party characters should overshadow Nintendo characters in a game whose main appeal is to be a massive Nintendo crossover, and I (and I'm sure many other poeple who are supporting specific Nintendo characters) would feel underwhelmed if third-parties are going to outprioritze first-parties that badly just because "we need characters everyone can recognize".

Sakurai is going to troll us. Just call that the free space.

King K. Rool is irrelevant, sure, however with his overwhelming popularity, his importance as a villan overall, and the fact that @BaganSmashBros' K. Rool mod confirms that he'd work as a fighter, not to mention the fact that the costume was most likely a coincidence that just happened to be pre-ballot, leads me to believe that we'll get him as a DLC character. Not to mention the new costume moreorless introduced him to audiences that are unfamiliar with the character, so it'd work out perfectly. I believe he'll come at some point in time.

I truly believe that the reason he got a Mii costume was multi-fold.
1- Cash in twice on a popular character
2- Troll us into thinking he may not be an included character (even ZSS and Metaknight were victims. It's everywhere.)
3- Introduce the character to an audience before the actual character. Those interested in his elaborate costume (but who did not know the character) will be ingratiated to K Rool. In short- the costume introduces the character to a new audience.

 

[LIQUID12A]

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

Question: Why did Wolf become a playable fighter, and not Krystal?


Sakurai: Wolf was a character that barely made it in due to time constraints. He was added because there was high demand for his inclusion on places like “Smash Bros. Dojo!!”, and he’s a popular character. Of course, if he didn’t have that backing him, I don’t think I could have put him in. Among the characters with high popularity, I chose one who had a high possibility of becoming realized in the game, and as a result you could say Wolf was created.

Host: Does that mean even if you wanted to add more female characters, Krystal didn’t have a realistic chance of being physically implemented into the game?

Sakurai: For Krystal, we didn’t have any of the technical modeling knowledge that we had cultivated with Fox and Falco, so it was like making a brand-new character from scratch. And because of the limited amount of time we had, creating Krystal wasn’t realistically possible. On that point, with Wolf we already have some knowledge of how to model his character, and would require about 70% of the effort required to create a whole new character.

Host: I see. But we did get a lot of questions like, “Why wasn’t Krystal a playable character?”

Sakurai: It’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it.

Host: Well, that is true (laughs).

Sakurai: In the end, the three playable characters in this game from “Star Fox” are Fox and Falco, and on top of that, Wolf, because he was popular and easy to create. On the other hand, if it was a situation where it wasn’t easy to create this character, and we had to make him from scratch, “Star Fox” may not have had 3 representatives. So, please think of Wolf as a lucky inclusion.

If we get another DKCR title any time soon. We all expect a sequel, but who would be at the helm? It seems Retro could do it, surely, but do they actually want to create another DKCR? It seems to me, that as much love as trilogies receive for being trilogies, every public statement Retro has made indicates they are not working on a previously established franchise (that is, not one they have worked on prior).

Spoiler: Just to end this conclusively and not go offtopic too much

It's pretty easy to theorize that Retro directly following the Kremling Kampaign means they are aware of the demand for KKR's revival. And while I couldn't tell you who would make the next DKCR, there's a good chance it'll happen eventually. Not now, but later, depending on when Retro wants to work on established IPs again(shame the next console Metroid will likely be an NX title in this regard).

 

[Talpr1]

I think that the influence of the so called "casuals" over the ballot is vastly overstimated. First, the ballot was only spoken of in the Nintendo Direct that announced Mewtwo and Lucas, we haven't heard a word about it from Nintendo since then. Thus, a lot of "casuals" probably haven't voted, simply because they weren't aware of the ballot, not having watched the direct.Those who where aware of it probably didn't put much thought into their vote either, and have voted for characters they just like, without stopping and thinking about if they are likely, make sense etc. (the infamous Goku). And they just voted, without doing anything else, while more hardcore fans multivoted, put up campaigns, drew fanarts, bantered constantly on forums, thus having a significantly bigger influence in spite of being less. Not to mention, the demographic for DLC is most likely hardcore fans anyway, or at least older fans which would easily recognize some of the characters considered too obscure by someone here(i.e. King K. Rool, which would be easily recognized by the majority of those who were around in the SNES and N64 eras).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Kinda scratching my head as to why people are still calling Indie characters "likely".

Go ahead and like the character, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't expect them.in the game.

A character like Snake (despite Konami) is STILL more likely because of his history in gaming. That's what it's about. Cloud getting added doesn't mean everyone is likely now. Cloud is a pretty significant 3rd party character, indie characters are not. They haven't had enough time to develop a legacy like the others have.
___

As a side note, I think the remaining characters are going to be picked from a small group. I don't really think it's as much of a free for all as some are thinking it is. The only newcomers who I feel have any sort of chance are those who are clearly in the Top 10, so off the top of my head that's K.Rool, Isaac, Inklings and Bandanna Dee.

I'm also one of the few people who thinks we're only getting one ballot character, with Snake and Wolf returning and releasing with Cloud. Take it for what you will.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Krystal... Where do I begin...
First off, I don't really like Krystal, but it's just my opinion, if you like her that's fine, let's agree to disagree, secondly, she's not as popular as she was in Brawl, as polls tend to show that there's a large difference, she's popular, but not as much as others make her out to be, thirdly, she's been written out of the reboot, as she's suposed to have no appearance in Zero, fourth, she's overshadowed by Wolf, who has much more popularity then her, and fifth, Impa is one of the more popular Zelda characters, and Shantae is one of the more popular third-parties, Krystal doesn't really stand much of a chance compared to Wolf, at least that's how I see it. If you don't agree with me however that's fine, we can agree, to disagree. (Also, I don't see why people are requesting her, I only see that people are requesting her for the sake of having a female Star Fox character, and because she has a weapon that isn't a gun, and I just don't get why...)

People support characters they like personally. Why else do you think someone could make a claim for a 4th, 5th, and now 6th Fire Emblem character? It is not a franchise that has proven it has the power of the other 5 party reps. In any way.

 

[Troykv]

Now is impossible see or not as DLC not pop-iconic character?

Because... If that is the case... Almost all the support could be useless in this (but the big deals... That are pretty much done), and in the end be the character a Mii Costume and/or competition as a Smash 5, with the least hyping roster for the "non-niche gamer"...

 

[pupNapoleon]

You know it's really depressing Sakurai seems to have some kind of apathy towards Wolf.
He basically only got in Brawl because there wasn't enough time to make Krystal.

I think he might still get in as DLC, but I don't think it will be because they thought he was a particularly valuable inclusion.
Which is odd, because I'd definitely put Wolf above Krystal, much less some of the characters already in Smash.

What the hell are you talking about? Sakurai is known to have wanted Wolf in Melee (in Falco's stead), but they were graphically too similar for Melee. He is one of three characters in the opening movie who were not then playable (Samurai Goroh and a tiny Ridley that was somehow fine for a Movie but not a character but clearly shows Sakurai can envision the character as a humanoid).

Now is impossible see or not as DLC not pop-iconic character?

Because... If that is the case... Almost all the support could be useless in this (but the big deals... That are pretty much done), and in the end be the character a Mii Costume and/or competition as a Smash 5, with the least hyping roster for the "non-niche gamer"...

I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

It's pretty easy to theorize that Retro directly following the Kremling Kampaign means they are aware of the demand for KKR's revival. And while I couldn't tell you who would make the next DKCR, there's a good chance it'll happen eventually. Not now, but later, depending on when Retro wants to work on established IPs again(shame the next console Metroid will likely be an NX title in this regard).

I agree fully with this- I just do not agree with the notion that a DKCR is going to happen anytime soon.
That said, it would be pretty awesome if it *were* on the next gen system. (I would say NX, but I am increasingly starting to think the NX is a new portable, moreso than a home console.
A) Nintendo has pulled this "three tiered" crap before with the Gameboy and the DS, and clearly one replaced the other.
B) It seems it will not be powerful.
C) The new version of a portable seems to come right after an upgrade, like the DSi then lead to the 3DS. I expect the n3DS a minor improvement, and the new portable to hit soon after.
D) Regardless of the Wii U's sales, I just cannot imagine that Nintendo threw in the towel early enough with the Wii U to have started a new system long enough ago. This would mean having the foresight to see this right after release (without the grit to try to push the system, and Nintendo has a lot of grit), but with enough time to think "Hey, our next system could be even better, and here is how we know it!" The balance of knowing a previous system would be unsuccessful, with knowing how to make the next console successful enough to compensate a previous systems lifespan, is too precarious to call.

 

[Aetheri]

Here's a question for everyone...

Which of the following is more important from a marketing standpoint?

A loud minority?
or
A silent majority?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's a question for everyone...

Which of the following is more important from a marketing standpoint?

A loud minority?
or
A silent majority?

Majority=more people are interested in your product, which in turn causes higher sales and more money. I literally came home from business class and work in a store

 

[IndigoSSB]

Here's a question for everyone...

Which of the following is more important from a marketing standpoint?

A loud minority?
or
A silent majority?

A silent majority, that means there's demand to work with. The problem would be noticing the majority without them being vocal about it.

Ironically, I feel like Cloud falls under the silent majority in terms of support. I'm sure a lot of people wanted him in Smash but didn't actively support him because they thought he didn't have a chance.

 

[Kenith]

Here's a question for everyone...

Which of the following is more important from a marketing standpoint?

A loud minority?
or
A silent majority?

The silent majority, by far.
I mean, we have evidence of this.

The loud minority wanted King K. Rool.
The silent majority (or silent to us) voted for Cloud in the Ballot.

Look who we got. .
(I'm not saying Cloud is a ballot character necessarily, but the point is that Cloud doesn't have a solid Smash fanbase, but he has a lot of actual fans.)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I want to address something regarding sales.

There are sales of immediacy, and there are sales on longevity. The latter is the sign of a brand, and the former, a product.
Nintendo is a brand, and the DLC are products of the brand. The hope is that by improving immediate sales, the longevity of sales for the brand as a whole will increase. This does not always happen, as quality is the main point of the brand, and quantity is the main point of a product.

If Nintendo only cared about a single product, we would have 200 costumes for SSB, each, for a dollar (I'm looking at you, boy of sack), and make bank to those who wanted each. If Nintendo only cared about a single product, the DLC characters would be Bayonetta, Lara Croft, and Ivy from Soul Calibur.

If Nintendo were not concerned with the longevity of their reputation, we would not have seen as elaborate of DLC as we have- Super Luigi U was an entire game in itself. Mario Kart 8 offered a 50% boost to the game, with characters and courses seen to be better than the base game itself. Nintendo has enough money to not worry about the 40k a single character may have over another- they care about sustaining their brand. This means backing long term support of fans, not just quick sales.
We can bicker about how they may achieve this, but not about the notion that an immediate sale is not the goal of the company. That is factually and comprehensibly incorrect, and any time sales are brought into the spectrum, we must reappropriate this notion into the end-goal.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Kinda scratching my head as to why people are still calling Indie characters "likely".

Go ahead and like the character, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't expect them.in the game.

A character like Snake (despite Konami) is STILL more likely because of his history in gaming. That's what it's about. Cloud getting added doesn't mean everyone is likely now. Cloud is a pretty significant 3rd party character, indie characters are not. They haven't had enough time to develop a legacy like the others have.

Because...bias?

I mean, honestly, you have stuff like posts at the top of this page saying "oh, Shantae is likely but Krystal isn't because reasons reasons and I don't like her". Granted this particular scenario applies to anyone, just replace characters accordingly. I mean, I think, for example, that Bandanna Dee is more likely to be made a severed head for Miis to wear than an actual character but I won't shove it down anybody's throat nor claim that anyone I support is more likely. As far as I'm concerned everyone within logical bounds is on even footing.

Got off track a little...

Probably because we've heard vocal support from the indie devs or whatever. Like the large amount of Smash-related posts from WayForward(including that dumb "see you in Smash" comment and the photo of a WF dev with Sakurai that SOME INDIVIDUALS decided to associate with Smash for some silly reason).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Honestly the whole "3rd parties need to be iconic" thing sounds like another fan rule desperately waiting to be broken just like all the others. I don't think we're getting any indies but it seems a little presumptuous to say only iconic 3rd parties can get in with how many times we make up a rule only to see it broken.