Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

What the hell are you talking about? Sakurai is known to have wanted Wolf in Melee (in Falco's stead), but they were graphically too similar for Melee. He is one of three characters in the opening movie who were not then playable (Samurai Goroh and a tiny Ridley that was somehow fine for a Movie but not a character but clearly shows Sakurai can envision the character as a humanoid).

Do you have any proof in regards to that cause I've seen so many people say it with no source to back it up

 

[belmontzar]

Sonic series: Tails has a great move set available with all of his gadgets. Knuckles would be a decent brawler. Robotnik is a popular idea but imnot sure how he could play out, id ratehr see him as a Stage hazerd or Assist that summons a random bos machine he used from sonics 1-K
MGS" Raiden based on his Rizing versions. Sure its not a nintendo game but its just SO awesome! though ill just say id be happy to have snake back.
Megaman: Zero from teh GBA game series. it even had a compilation release for teh ds that I STILL play alot ^^ Plus his many weapons lead to great move set potential.
Namco: anyone from Soul calibur would be awesoem here. Personally while im a big fan of Seigried and Nightmare, im gonan give the vote to Sophitia to support another Shield+ sword user and more female fighters. Though I would love to see more TALES OF series love as well.
FF: LIGHTNING!!! THAT WOULD BE AWESOME XD that or The all awesomness that is the RED MAGE! [hell id be happy to have red mage as a MII outfit..] love that class so much.. it is my MAIN and prmary way I play FF games. both kinds of primary magic AND the power to just SMACK someone around. REd mage IS the final fantasy hero.
[post made in reply to stuff I read on page 79 will edit if I see somethign on the newest page that I wanna comment on. ]

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Honestly the whole "3rd parties need to be iconic" thing sounds like another fan rule desperately waiting to be broken just like all the others. I don't think we're getting any indies but it seems a little presumptuous to say only iconic 3rd parties can get in with how many times we make up a rule only to see it broken.

Sakurai himself has stated that though, I'm paraphrasing but I remember him saying something along the lines of ' we aren't just going to add just anybody'

edit: found it, http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Do you have any proof in regards to that cause I've seen so many people say it with no source to back it up

Actually, that was false. Based @PushDustIn AKA Salt Lord will tell you why

 

[Troykv]

What the hell are you talking about? Sakurai is known to have wanted Wolf in Melee (in Falco's stead), but they were graphically too similar for Melee. He is one of three characters in the opening movie who were not then playable (Samurai Goroh and a tiny Ridley that was somehow fine for a Movie but not a character but clearly shows Sakurai can envision the character as a humanoid).

I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

I agree fully with this- I just do not agree with the notion that a DKCR is going to happen anytime soon.
That said, it would be pretty awesome if it *were* on the next gen system. (I would say NX, but I am increasingly starting to think the NX is a new portable, moreso than a home console.
A) Nintendo has pulled this "three tiered" crap before with the Gameboy and the DS, and clearly one replaced the other.
B) It seems it will not be powerful.
C) The new version of a portable seems to come right after an upgrade, like the DSi then lead to the 3DS. I expect the n3DS a minor improvement, and the new portable to hit soon after.
D) Regardless of the Wii U's sales, I just cannot imagine that Nintendo threw in the towel early enough with the Wii U to have started a new system long enough ago. This would mean having the foresight to see this right after release (without the grit to try to push the system, and Nintendo has a lot of grit), but with enough time to think "Hey, our next system could be even better, and here is how we know it!" The balance of knowing a previous system would be unsuccessful, with knowing how to make the next console successful enough to compensate a previous systems lifespan, is too precarious to call.

Hmm...

I just word it bad...

I mean basically... The DLC will be only pop-icon characters?

Which character Nintendo has that can be considered like that? Inkling? Because any (or almost) other option is niche compared with Ryu/Cloud/Mewtwo

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sakurai himself has stated that though, I'm paraphrasing but I remember him saying something along the lines of ' we aren't just going to add just anybody'

edit: found it, http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

"not just anyone" != "all characters must be super iconic"

 

[belmontzar]

Hmm...

I just word it bad...

I mean basically... The DLC will be only pop-icon characters?

Which character Nintendo has that can be considered like that? Inkling? Because any (or almost) other option is niche compared with Ryu/Cloud/Mewtwo

thing is most of the main stays of nintendo are characters for games that have gone on for years. I dont think there aRE any specific stand outs that are new. I dont have splatoon as I dont have a Wii u so I have no opinion on the inklings at all. Personally each time I watch video of Spaltoon I get the urge and play TF2 instead.
want a character that has no possible chance of showing up in Smash?
HEAVY WEAPONS GUY!

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

The loud minority against Metroid Prime Federation Force seems to be failing... (which is a good thing imo)
The loud minority for Mother 3 in English seems to be failing... (which is not a good thing imo)
And so I conclude from both sides of my opinion that the silent majority is stronger.

 

[NintenZ]

People support characters they like personally. Why else do you think someone could make a claim for a 4th, 5th, and now 6th Fire Emblem character? It is not a franchise that has proven it has the power of the other 5 party reps. In any way.

Okay, I understand now. You're aloud to support who you want whether I have thoughts for them or not.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Do you have any proof in regards to that cause I've seen so many people say it with no source to back it up

I will find a source. So far all the links I am finding are dead- it was something I'd read about, in regard to quoting Sakurai, in the Brawl era.

In the mean time, read this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506
No true source for it, but it all seems believable enough.

Actually, that was false. Based @PushDustIn AKA Salt Lord will tell you why

Curious. Source gaming is where I was going next. I will hunt this story down, if Thanksgiving cooking does not get in the way.

BTW- happy thanksgiving everyone!

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

"not just anyone" != "all characters must be super iconic"

Even though he said the character has to have history

 

[Kenith]

Even though he said the character has to have history

I'm pretty sure he didn't actually say that.
He may have said something like that (his words are on the edge of my mind) but he didn't say that.

EDIT: And for the very first time, Sakurai isn't being misquoted here. :/

 

[NintenZ]

I'm pretty sure he didn't actually say that.
He may have said something like that (his words are on the edge of my mind) but he didn't say that.

O rly?
"The character must carry game history with them."
I beg to differ.

 

[Zerp]

He actually did say that . "The character must carry game history with them."
Edit: Ninja'd, very sorry NintenZ That's my bad.

 

[NintenZ]

He actually did say that . "The character must carry game history with them."
Edit: Ninja'd, very sorry NintenZ my bad.

Oh no, it's just fine, no biggie! :3

 

[Kenith]

Then again.
He also said that for Brawl, for the base game.
I think he could very be less strict for DLC.

Besides that, "game history" is kinda broad.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I will find a source. So far all the links I am finding are dead- it was something I'd read about, in regard to quoting Sakurai, in the Brawl era.

In the mean time, read this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506
No true source for it, but it all seems believable enough.

Curious. Source gaming is where I was going next. I will hunt this story down, if Thanksgiving cooking does not get in the way.

BTW- happy thanksgiving everyone!

Wolf as a Fox clone might also be misinformation. The only source I’ve been able to find is a Neogaf user, who has since been banned. He claims that the information came from a Famitsu article, but provided no scans nor the date of the article. This was said by the same guy that claimed Wario was considered as a Mario clone. Based on Sakurai’s comments about not all characters in the opening movie being planned, and the questionable legitimacy of that user, I believe that this accusation is false. Sakurai mentioned that Peppy’s voice actor was wondering if Peppy was going to be a playable character. Afterwards, he mentioned that fans would really like to see the Starfox team complete

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/
Source
EDIT this may be a different Neogaf post. nevermind
EDIT 2 or maybe it is. College wifi is slow as hell right now

Even though he said the character has to have history

And that disproves my claim. . how?
Having a history still doesn't make you iconic. Keeping up the Indie train Shantae has a history starting from the gameboy.

It's still a fan rule saying all 3rd parties have to be iconic.

Man I seem to defend characters I dont like and attack characters I do like more often than the other way around ever since release

 

[NintenZ]

Then again.
He also said that for Brawl, for the base game.
I think he could very be less strict for DLC.

Besides that, "game history" is kinda broad.

I've got to say, that's reeeeaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyy stretching it...

(Naw I'm just messing with you, but really we don't know, anything could happen at this point, so we'll just have to see)

 

[A Distant Demon]

I've got to say, that's reeeeaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyy stretching it...

Oh the irony if you saying that with the amount of crack-pot theories you have concocted.

Especially when kenith has a point.

 

[NintenZ]

Oh the irony if you saying that with the amount of crack-pot theories you have concocted.

Especially when kenith has a point.

It was just a joke bro, no worries. I just edited my post actually.

 

[Kenith]

Shantae has game history: She's existed for 13 years.
Shovel Knight has game history: He represents the success of crowdfunded games.

These are flimsy ways to say they have "game history" but it's totally applicable because of how broad Sakurai's are.

If Sakurai had said something along the lines of:
"These characters must have had a huge impact on gaming history", THAT would be different.
But he didn't say that.

That might be what he meant, but you shouldn't use that one sentence as conclusive evidence against Shantae being added.
Especially because that email is 8 years old.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I've got to say, that's reeeeaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyy stretching it...

Ironic joke(and borderline hypocritical) when it's considered that you were practically sold on the implication of Shantae being in Smash when that Tweet of some WayForward person with Sakurai showed up and we had to talk you out of it.

I mean, it's harsh, but these are points easily used against one, so if anything, take it as advice for the future.

 

[NintenZ]

Ironic joke(and borderline hypocritical) when it's considered that you were practically sold on the implication of Shantae being in Smash when that Tweet of some WayForward person with Sakurai showed up.

I mean, it's harsh, but these are points easily used against one.

You might want to read the rest of the post. Also how do you know that was my reason eh? Don't you think it could've been something else?

 

[Aetheri]

Shantae has game history: She's existed for 13 years.
Shovel Knight has game history: He represents the success of crowdfunded games.

These are flimsy ways to say they have "game history" but it's totally applicable because of how broad Sakurai's are.

If Sakurai had said something along the lines of:
"These characters must have had a huge impact on gaming history", THAT would be different.
But he didn't say that.

That might be what he meant, but you shouldn't use that one sentence as conclusive evidence against Shantae being added.
Especially because that email is 8 years old.

Thing is a lot of Sakurai's statements get taken out of context or mistranslated...ie. 'No fighting game characters'

 

[Kenith]

I've got to say, that's reeeeaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyy stretching it...

(Naw I'm just messing with you, but really we don't know, anything could happen at this point, so we'll just have to see)

> Insults someone for straw-grasping.
> Adds a "nah jk" sentence after someone calls him out for being hypocritical with that statement.

Not sure I believe you meant that in good will mate.

 

[NintenZ]

> Insults someone for straw-grasping.
> Adds a "nah jk" sentence after someone calls him out for being hypocritical with that statement.

Not sure I believe you meant that in good will mate.

Sorry if that's how I came across, I wasn't trying to be like that but I'll be more direct next time if that's how you feel. My apologies for the inconvenience.

But actually, I agree with you, I think Sakurai may be a bit more loose now that development is over, now he may be a bit more offering and more allowing, so yes, I'm on you with this one.

 

[LIQUID12A]

You might want to read the rest of the post. Also how do you know that was my reason eh? Don't you think it could've been something else?

Messing with someone or not, there is some *cough* history to it.

How do I know that was your reason?

"Obviously there's more to it than that." Said by you, a Shantae supporter for Smash.

Me: You're desperate to think that.

"I'm not, he, Wayforward's designer and director, wouldn't just be next to Sakurai for no reason." Also said by thee, thee who supports the half naked genie. And someone supporting one of their wanted characters searches for any reason to believe they could be in.

And honestly, it isn't the most ludicrous thing you've said on the topic of an indie either. Detracting statements about one indie that you borderline despise(as much as you claim said attitude nowadays is a joke) to support the other...that you actually want.

Yes, I'm being highly critical, but I'm sure you understand my point. Take this as my final say in the matter because an argument is not something I'd get into over this of all things.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This Wolf thing is a deep rabbit hole.

NP: What can you tell us about the upcoming all-star fighting game featuring Nintendo characters?

Miyamoto: It may sound like a bloody game if you label it as a fighting game. It's not bloody at all. Instead, it's an enjoyable "hitting" game like sumo in Japan, in which you have to force your opponent out of a ring, or cage in this case. There will probably be more than ten characters including some secret characters who've appeared in older Nintendo games. I think we'll be calling the game "Nintendo All-Star Battle Royal Smash Bros." or something like that. I think we are going to launch it early next year.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071005...motoshrine.com/theman/interviews/111998.shtml

 

[NintenZ]

Messing with someone or not, there is some *cough* history to it.

How do I know that was your reason?

"Obviously there's more to it than that." Said by you, a Shantae supporter for Smash.

Me: You're desperate to think that.

"I'm not, he, Wayforward's designer and director, wouldn't just be next to Sakurai for no reason." Also said by thee, thee who supports the half naked genie. And someone supporting one of their wanted characters searches for any reason to believe they could be in.

And honestly, it isn't the most ludicrous thing you've said on the topic of an indie either. Detracting statements about one indie that you borderline despise(as much as you claim said attitude nowadays is a joke) to support the other...that you actually want.

Yes, I'm being highly critical, but I'm sure you understand my point. Take this as my final say in the matter because an argument is not something I'd get into over this of all things.

Alright, please stop this, edit these out if you will, because it's only making things worse, if you really want to stop, then this is where you end it, as it's not beneficial. I get your upset but you don't need to do this. This is actually quite humiliating. Not to mention, these happened months ago.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Alright, please stop this, edit these out if you will, because it's only making things worse, if you really want to stop, then this is where you end it, as it's not beneficial. I get your upset but you don't need to do this. This is actually quite humiliating.

Word of advice, then. And it only benefits you in future discussions.

Don't make hypocritical jokes that can very easily be turned against you. It's enough for now anyway since it gets the point across and you clearly understood my point, and I'm glad you did.

Oh, and I'm not upset. I just see someone asking me to prove something and I did. Nothing upsetting about that.

 

[NintenZ]

Word of advice, then. And it only benefits you in future discussions.

Don't make hypocritical jokes that can very easily be turned against you. It's enough for now anyway since it gets the point across and you clearly understood my point, and I'm glad you did.

Okay, I won't make hypocritical jokes, but still these happened months ago, if you wanted to prove a point, okay, but that's beside the fact that I don't feel you've moved on like I have, have you? (Also at that time I didn't support Shantae, actually I just support characters I'd be cool with seeing) But I'm going to be the bigger person and move on from this, as that will benefit me in the best way.

 

[Gimmick]

Also, lately I've been thinking of

Wow! Really?

Goku and Batman aren't even video game characters!

As for Toad...well, Sakurai could make a good moveset for him, but I honestly doubt it...

I don't think really knew the stipulations of the ballot. They just voted for there favorite characters and called it a day. Heck, there's even a Goku support video out there for smash. Plus imagine that a lot of casual fans voted for characters like the ones already mentioned.

 

[NintenZ]

So, what impossibilities would you like to see for DLC?
(Urban Champion Mii Costume pls?)

 

[DustyPumpkin]

So, what impossibilities would you like to see for DLC?
(Urban Champion Mii Costume pls?)

Isn't that just a a generic shirt in really bright colours

 

[CodeBlue_]

When it comes to the Smash Ballot, the "vocal minority" seems like a strange case.

In order to vote in the Smash Ballot, you would need to be somewhat involved in a online community. Aren't the casuals we talk about the ones that would, for example, go online on post on youtube comments?

The people I see mass-voting for Daisy or Toad seem like either people we see on youtube comments or people who don't have the mental capacity (or parent's permission) to even use the internet.

Polls on forums like NeoGaf or SB are probably not good examples of the overall community, but if we scourge popular youtube channels and facebook communities, we'll probably have a good view of what's popular.

Unless gigantic wave of Miiverse votes come in (I don't think Miiverse's community is very big tbh) that are drastically different from your daily dose on facebook, I don't think this "majority" really exists.

I do think Goku will be noticeably high on the ballot though.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So, what impossibilities would you like to see for DLC?
(Urban Champion Mii Costume pls?)

<------- for Brawler
Wonder Red/Blue/green for Brawler/sword/gunner
ajna for brawler

 

[Aetheri]

So, what impossibilities would you like to see for DLC?
(Urban Champion Mii Costume pls?)

Phendrana Drifts Stage...at the very least...show the Prime series some love Sakurai

(Of course I wouldn't mind seeing Dark Samus either)

 

[NintenZ]

Isn't that just a a generic shirt in really bright colours

Not just any generic shirt in really bright colors...
The generic shirt in really bright colors!

(But in all seriousness if I had to choose an impossibility, I'd go with a Skullgirls Mii Costume)

 

[Amberloo]

<------- for Brawler
Wonder Red/Blue/green for Brawler/sword/gunner
ajna for brawler

Actually, I would not be surprised in the least if Tifa gets a Brawler costume, and if Barret gets a gunner costume as well, at this point.

 

[belmontzar]

Thing is when I come up with ideas for smash characters I dont try and think "hey he woudl be cool to see." but also "Well ok then how would he play out. Is there a decent potential for an even or clever move set in relation to everyone else." I also try to not comment on charaters from games I have no played. [Shantae and Shovel knight for examples].
Game history in my head means, had an important role in one or more games that are on nintendo systems. When it comes to impact on the game world that is also up for interpretation. There are countless characters out there that impacted gaming for some of us in ways that make others be all confused.

"goku is an anime character." And as much as I hate to say it there are alot of Dragon ball games on nintendo consols.
"No fighting game characters" Ryu has been in a few none fighting games Such as the current Project X zone series and Super Puzzle fighter 2 which had a version on the GBA. there are also plenty of nintendo characters who have participated in fighters as well [not counting smash even]

In all set honesty the biggest, and I do mean BIGGEST and best thing they could add for DLC would be Custom moves for the DLC characters. Like for example giving Ryu alternates based on Ken, akuma, or Sakura for his many attacks. As much as id love smash run stuff I know it wont happen due to Allthe dlc being Connected to both systems instead of system specific stuff.
another addition that could be cool would be the ability to download stages palyers made on Wii U and use them on 3ds. Im sure there are alot of stages peole have made that would work perfectly well on the 3ds game.