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Is it just me, or did Shantae/SK support go downhill ever since was announced? I barely even see any of the indie duo mentioned in Youtube comments anymore.
Glad to see they're over with, I'm sorry to any fans of these guys but it's obvious Sakurai is hunting for icons, not some characters that barely got any relevance in the Nintendo community. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. And last but not least, is an icon.
Shantae and SK aren't, end of story.
I dunno man I am a big fan of pokemon myself and with the roster there I think we are ok as we stand pokemon wise.
People want an icon that hasn't gotten any love?
Tetris Stage with falling blocks. in a similar style to the Kirby GB level.
I want the walls, and the falling blocks with the only way to be Koed is to be toped out or Squashed
Getting squashed would be pretty unique- it would be only the second level to have a mechanic of death required other than stage outs (the other being the Offensively Great cave).
It's a bit funny, it's really a very similar reason to why I support Jirachi so strongly, I feel like mythical pokemon with all their contributions to Pokemon should have equal rep to the legendaries (). Their both gen 3 too, t'is a shame that it's nigh impossible to get more than one of them because of that, since both would be "perfect" in terms of their representation of both their type (mythical or Grass) and their generation in my opinion.
I don't understand why so many people are vehemently opposed to another Pokemon rep though, I understand that many people don't want another one, which is fine, but what's with all the massive opposition? Pokemon is the second largest gaming franchise in the world, there's no way it having 7 reps is completely unreasonable or something, especially with Fire Emblem currently having 5, right? I'm kind of confused on that, would anyone who is strongly opposed to any Pokemon newcomers tell me why their opposed, I'd be very grateful because as of right now I just can't understand? I really want to understand so if any of you want to share why, please feel free to be as blunt as you have to be to get your point across.
Firstly, mythical Pokemon...are legendary Pokemon. I guess we can put Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Shaymin, the 'sprits...into their own category. (But then why is the clone of one in a different category?)
Regarding Pokemon as a whole, It doesn't matter if the Smash community wants it (especially because it sells, and most of the arguments against it fall everywhere short of irrefutable). Pokemon is generally regarded as a game for even younger audience than the other Nintendo franchises (despite its similarly competitive metagame to smash... though I never have seen more than 4 posts even mentioning the competitive scene in Pokemon). I *often* compare Fire Emblem to Pokemon in regard to fans because they are pretty opposite. One is a lasting franchise that is always on top, receives no love on Smash forums, and a cultural phenomenon. the other is a quivering franchise with only recent resurgence after a single game, receives ridiculously large amounts of support on the forums, and is nothing more than a video game in any way.
Isn't it also kind of hypocritical to be completely fine with having another Pokemon character, but to not be fine with another FE character? I understand that Pokemon makes a ton of more money than FE does, but like Pokemon, FE has quite a bit of potential when it comes to characters. People are complaining about how the Pokemon roster lacks a grass-type, yet oh, we can't get an Axe or a Lance fighter to the FE roster because FE has too many characters? It's just weird I think. FE I think actually is not as well-represented as everyone thinks it is, but hey that's just my opinion. Representation like I said is completely subjective. *shrug*
...no. Pokemon has been a cultural phenomenon (and this is not my statement, this is studied as such in such fields as economics, anthropology, sociology, and others). Pokemon was a massive hit that has not been replicated, spawning more paraphernalia than Mario, one of the top 4 longest running cartoons ever, and more options in merchandizing than any other Nintendo franchise (including Mario*...). In gaming alone (ignoring the movies, manga, anime, Trading cards, pins, figures, plush...) it has more spinoff games than anything other than Mario.
In Comparison, Fire Emblem almost died after a steady stream of mildly successful games that only reached outside of Japan due to being in Smash and not on the games' own merits. The only success it has had was the most recently released title, and its future is being promoted to keep it alive beyond its only globally successful game.
There is nothing similar about the two. At all. I'd be happy to discuss this further in private message.
*This is difficult to source, but its a comparison between several charts of data.[/quote]
OK so what happened was that some guy on the Internet lied to everyone. Since no one ever asked for proof, his message was accepted in blind faith. I tracked down the original user (originally a post on Neogaf) and had them eventually admit to this. Also, I have every Famitsu Column/ interview and this has never been mentioned thereby confirming that indeed the OP is a jerk and the importance of asking for sources.
We got to that part a few posts after the one you quoted, but its always nice when you jump in with some translations. Definitely staying true to your mission statement
(I apologize in advance that this may end up being a double post on my phone, and may indeed sound offensive).
My only real reason is not really the number but the many fighting styles already represented in the pokemon roster. Each one is unique and im not sure what other monsters [sides eevee] would be able to pull in a straight new type of game play. [mew two is the only real copy cat.] Id love to see more pokemon refs if they had unique game play like the ones we have now. teh fact that each of them feel unique even in contrast to the other fighters is awesome, so give me a pokemon that has a Completely unique combat style and im happy. [though taking away some of Charizards flight messes with his old game play alot.]
[though it goes without saying that if any of the Eevee lutions came into play id be a super happy camper xD so uh grass type? LEAFEON ftw then. Sylveon would be an awesoem rep for the newer games though.]
so we need to think of a pokemon rep thats not already an assist.
....um......wait.... um....
I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like you can envision any moveset if you believe that all Pokemon possibilities are done. I dont.. I don't.....even...
and then you go on to say Leafeon. Just by being a Grass pokemon.
I just...
...
I have not all of the answers, but, Christ, have you tried?
And I'm truly sorry this all sounds so offensive, but that post above just blows my mind; it is perhaps the most unintentionally offensive post I have read here...and is the unfortunate opinion to which I am sure others have come but it just... its just a wrong opinion. It's just not an opinion that is not correct at all.
Here's some basic ideas for Pokemon Trainer. http://smashboards.com/threads/gott...for-dlc-gen1-of-article.422593/#post-20415293
For Eevee, I would love the character to have a different way to trigger each evolution, each with the same general attacks as Eevee (reskinned thematically), but with perhaps a single change pending on which you choose. Then, at death, you reset as Eevee.
Give me any character from Pokemon and I will give you an entirely unique moveset. It doesnt take any time.
And thats without counting Squirtle and Ivysaur, whom we had and now do not.
(I'd even tell you movesets distinct for each individual symbol of Unown, and be as accurate to Pokemon as Sakurai is accurate to Pokemon. In other words, I'll look at the design and say "**** it, I'll do what I want.")
since the games release I mean with dlc mewtwo was added to the game and is VERY VERY close to how Lucario plays at a base level. teh only differences are the Aura affect and a few specials.
I don't understand how this would affect anything, even if you felt it. Half of the Zelda cast are actual clones, it doesn't mean that other characters from Hyrule could not be unique. Hell, most others would be difficult clones.
The only other 3rd party ICONS I can think of aside from Snake (at least old school ones) would've been Simon Belmont (if they bring him into the game, then we've just completed the Captain-N trio ), Bomberman, and Rayman.
After that, I think we'd be looking at the new generation of "icons", which would include characters like Master Chief, Lara Croft, etc., mostly characters who had absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo anything.
After that, I think we'd be looking at the new generation of "icons", which would include characters like Master Chief, Lara Croft, etc., mostly characters who had absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo anything.
Lara did have several games on Nintendo systems, even if half of them were minor spin-offs.
Tomb Raider (Game Boy Color - 2000) Tomb Raider: Curse of the Sword (Game Boy Color - 2001) Tomb Raider: The Prophecy (Game Boy Advance - 2002) Tomb Raider: Legend (GameCube, Game Boy Advance, DS - 2006) Tomb Raider: Anniversary (Wii - 2007) Tomb Raider: Underworld (Wii - 2008)
Whoever appears as DLC probably I wouldn't have problem with it (unless is YL), the character representation... I just don't care. Mario get a new character? Okay . Pokémon? Could be interesting. Fire Emblem?
I'm more interested in the character than in a number.
Is it just me, or did Shantae/SK support go downhill ever since was announced? I barely even see any of the indie duo mentioned in Youtube comments anymore.
Glad to see they're over with, I'm sorry to any fans of these guys but it's obvious Sakurai is hunting for icons, not some characters that barely got any relevance in the Nintendo community. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. And last but not least, is an icon.
Shantae and SK aren't, end of story.
Whoever appears as DLC probably I wouldn't have problem with it (unless is YL), the character representation... I just don't care. Mario get a new character? Okay . Pokémon? Could be interesting. Fire Emblem?
I'm more interested in the character than in a number.
For me I'm just hoping its a character I like. I'm not to big on 3rd parties, mainly because I haven't played some of their games like Ryu and Cloud. Also do you think they'll bring all these 3rd parties back for the next smash? That's another point, if you add all these 3rd parties in this smash, what will you do for the next smash?
Also do you think they'll bring all these 3rd parties back for the next smash? That's another point, if you add all these 3rd parties in this smash, what will you do for the next smash?
What if they released a clone pack? Like of 4 possible clone characters for pretty cheap or something. Just a fun idea like maybe one of these....
Impa - Sheik
Pichu - Pikachu
Medusa - Palutena
Zack - Cloud
Ken - Ryu
Y.Link - Link
etc
etc
Are you serious? NEWS FLASH: Mega Man X Zero uses different weapons too. And MMZ Zero has appeared in the same amount of fighting games as MMX Zero, so you really have no reason to complain. And you can't tell me that MMX Zero doesn't have great moveset potential, after all, I MADE AN ENTIRE POST ABOUT IT. That I'm sure no one saw...
And MMX Zero is just better :3
First of all, don't be such an arrogant rude arse about this subject, however, you're certainly less aggressive than previously, so I'm going to applaud you for that.
Second, you've always ranted about MMZ and MMX not being the same, so I don't understand your 'And MMZ Zero has appeared in the same amount of fighting games as MMX Zero' argument, not to mention it's always clearly the X incarnation based on the moves used, such as Rekkouka. I never saidXZero had no potential, I was just bored of seeing the same moveset XZero's always had in fighting games, and think ZZero's stuff would be a breath of fresh air.
Is it just me, or did Shantae/SK support go downhill ever since was announced? I barely even see any of the indie duo mentioned in Youtube comments anymore.
Glad to see they're over with, I'm sorry to any fans of these guys but it's obvious Sakurai is hunting for icons, not some characters that barely got any relevance in the Nintendo community. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. And last but not least, is an icon.
Shantae and SK aren't, end of story.
Oh, pretty much because I think the character is unlikely.
If Sakurai is trying to be like surprising and shocking with these characters... Or like he wants to out due Clouds reviel... I guess it's possible, the character was voted one of the most popular game characters in an Nintendo magazine once.
I don't really see this happening, but I thought I'd give my thought a nod in this thread.
So incase it happens someone could go back and quote me like im a wizard or something.
Oh, pretty much because I think the character is unlikely.
If Sakurai is trying to be like surprising and shocking with these characters... Or like he wants to put due Clouds reviel... I guess it's possible, the character was voted one of the most popular game characters in an Nintendo magazine once.
I don't really see this happening, but I thought I'd give my thought a nod in this thread.
I acknowledge shes not a video game character first... That's why I said it would be an exception...
But i've seen a trend with Smash, that rule is basically every 'rule' has been broken or bent.
I'm not saying this is remotely even close to being likely... But Idk limits are meant to be broken
I don't even wanna post this next sentemce because of jimmies, but...
Lucario and R.O.B. are already minor exceptions to the video game character rule.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, I wouldnt be surprised if Sakurai wanted to shatter our expectations for Smash by breaking the one cardinal "rule". To me it seems like a Sakurai thing to do, he's broken his rules all over Smash 4. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.
Er, you DO realize that Lucario was made as Gen IV's poster boy, right? Not to mention he's owned by Game Freak, and the Gen IV games were almost out on shelves. Not to mention your argument about 'based on his role and design for the movie' doesn't make sense as Lucario's a rare, but regular pokemon with a pre-evolution
Er, you DO realize that Lucario was made as Gen IV's poster boy, right? Not to mention he's owned by Game Freak, and the Gen IV games were almost out on shelves. Not to mention your argument about 'based on his role and design for the movie' doesn't make sense as Lucario's a rare, but regular pokemon with a pre-evolution
But the anime is non canon and the games were close to release when the movie was out, and because Lucario was the first Pokemon from Gen IV they announced that wasn't from an old evolution line, it got popular so they used it to promote the games with the movie. This makes no sense. Is Ho-Oh an anime character?
If someone challenges your opinion, you have to back it up with good arguments, otherwise you won't convince anyone
But the anime is non canon and the games were close to release when the movie was out, and because Lucario was the first Pokemon from Gen IV they announced that wasn't from an old evolution line, it got popular so they used it to promote the games with the movie. This makes no sense. Is Ho-Oh an anime character?
If someone challenges your opinion, you have to back it up with good arguments, otherwise you won't convince anyone
Holy, I leave the thread for like 2 days and you all have brought it to hell.
Lemme go down a few points
1) was designed for the Pokemon multi-media series and certainly for Gen 4 Games before the movie was in the works, don't try to make some grounds of Lucy being the likes of Goku and Miku who were designed for their niches and were popular enough to get licensed games. (Edit: It's the same matter as, say, the characters made for the Splatune OST. Made for supplemental material for the game in another medium).
2) First Party Rules =/= Third Party Rules
3) Indies have and will continue to hinge on the desire to choose an Indie character. They never did stack up to current third parties and they won't. Shantae and Butt-Butt have just been overshadowed by an overcast sky from one hyper-inflated Cloud and thus people have put down their cards until next time.
Holy, I leave the thread for like 2 days and you all have brought it to hell.
Lemme go down a few points
1) was designed for the Pokemon multi-media series and certainly for Gen 4 Games before the movie was in the works, don't try to make some grounds of Lucy being the likes of Goku and Miku who were designed for their niches and were popular enough to get licensed games. (Edit: It's the same matter as, say, the characters made for the Splatune OST. Made for supplemental material for the game in another medium).
2) First Party Rules =/= Third Party Rules
3) Indies have and will continue to hinge on the desire to choose an Indie character. They never did stack up to current third parties and they won't. Shantae and Butt-Butt have just been overshadowed by an overcast sky from one hyper-inflated Cloud and thus people have put down their cards until next time.
Do you have evidence such as an interview to support the claim that he was meant for gen 4 games before the movie was in the works?
Or is that just a popular belief?
Movies do take an incredible amount of production time, animating, script writing etc. It's possible Lucario was animated well before he was programed into a game.
Since the movie came out well before the game.
It's not like a movie just happens it also has development time.
It's a multimedia franchise, certain pokemon are designed for the games, some to promote the anime.
In next month's broadcast I'm fully expecting Cloud, Wolf and Inklings plus some Fighter Ballot reveals. I expect the ballot characters will probably be progressively released throughout next year.
This sounds reasonable and exactly what they may do. We got a surprise character a lot of people will really enjoy, who brings something new with his buster sword and moveset, a veteran who people have clamored for to return, and a newcomer who offers something unique, with their array of weapons, and abblities, and the ballot chracters, coming throughout next year. Is a good guess as well, it could be what they pull off.
I dunno why folk are thinking development's gonna continue into the new year outside of maintenance and/or balance tweaks. Sakurai's ready to drop this like a bad habit, and the ballot results/Cloud/final Dec. update would be just the ticket out. I figure Dec. is our last big content update then it's time for the skeleton crew.
and either one or two 1st Party Newcomers. K. Rool is the single most likely. Throw Inklings, Bandana Dee, Isaac, and maybe Paper Mario in for the rest of the pool.
DLC production will not go long into 2016. We've been told time and time again about the smaller scale of the team and how they will only be together for a short while longer, and how Sakurai genuinely tried to downplay the amount of characters to expect as one of the last interviews. If we go into April I'll genuinely be surprised. SHOCKED if we hit E3 2016.
It doesn't matter if Lucario was designed first for the anime; it's clear as sky that the intent was always to feature him in the games. Regardless, Pokémon originates as a videogame franchise, while Vocaloid doesn't.
Lucario and other Gen 4 Pokemon were designed before Diamond and Pearl came out.
This game was originally released on 2004 and has Munchlax right on the cover.
Using Lucario being in Lucario and the Mystery of Mew before his game debut came out as proof non-video game characters could be in Smash Bros. is absolute nonsense.
He wasn't created for that one movie, and that movie is one of a series of movies based on games that came out in 1996.
Is it just me, or did Shantae/SK support go downhill ever since was announced? I barely even see any of the indie duo mentioned in Youtube comments anymore.
Glad to see they're over with, I'm sorry to any fans of these guys but it's obvious Sakurai is hunting for icons, not some characters that barely got any relevance in the Nintendo community. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. is an icon. And last but not least, is an icon.
Shantae and SK aren't, end of story.
But I'm glad unlike some others you didn't say only iconic characters can get in. You just stated the pattern.
The other's group of people are just making yet another fan-made rule.
I would agree with that if we didn't have the 5 3rd parties we have, all of which are either genre-defining or known worldwide by gamers everywhere.
Not to mention, why should a character like Shantae suddenly be lined up next to ? Or better yet, ? If I were thinking of the Top 3rd parties, Indie characters are not what I think of. The proof comes from what we've tangibly been shown from Sakurai/Nintendo.
For the record, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Sakurai broke the last rule of "had to start as a videogame character".
But if that was going to happen, it would be Goku.
Why? Because he's immensely popular in the same group that's heavy into videogames AND in both the US and Japan, he debuted in 1985 (around the same time as many of the current icons), and most importantly, Bandai-Namco makes the DBZ games.
Mind you, I have no opinion on Goku or DBZ either way, but if the VG character rule was going to be broken, THAT would be the character most likely to break it. All of the rest of the pieces fit, the biggest piece being that there's a preexisting licensing agreement between the creators of DB and Banco.
Also, blech, vocaloids...
You know those voice actors we all love so much? The ones who brought all of the favorite characters of our childhoods to life? Yeah, vocaloids represent the technology that's going to some day replace all of those people with robots.
I don't want my children growing up remembering characters in shows who were voiced by "Vocaloid Voice #36", thanks.
Thank goodness even BMO in adventure time has a human voice actress...
For the record, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Sakurai broke the last rule of "had to start as a videogame character".
But if that was going to happen, it would be Goku.
Why? Because he's immensely popular in the same group that's heavy into videogames AND in both the US and Japan, he debuted in 1985 (around the same time as many of the current icons), and most importantly, Bandai-Namco makes the DBZ games.
Mind you, I have no opinion on Goku or DBZ either way, but if the VG character rule was going to be broken, THAT would be the character most likely to break it. All of the rest of the pieces fit, the biggest piece being that there's a preexisting licensing agreement between the creators of DB and Banco.
I agree that if that rule was ever, broken, it would be him...and I'm not sure there's anyone else that I could even tolerate being in Smash if they don't fit such a basic criteria.
But I'm glad unlike some others you didn't say only iconic characters can get in. You just stated the pattern.
The other's group of people are just making yet another fan-made rule.
I'm pretty sure that is basically what he's saying though.
And frankly, I agree.
Shovel Knight's creators for example, is an indie dev of five people. For better or worse, they're not comparable to a giant Japanese gaming giant. Or their icons. But they're also a lot more amicable with the use of their character.
Shovel Knight has been out for only a year and he's already cameoed in what, 10+ games now?
I agree that if that rule was ever, broken, it would be him...and I'm not sure there's anyone else that I could even tolerate being in Smash if they don't fit such a basic criteria.
Possibly Mickey Mouse.
I'm pretty sure that is basically what he's saying though.
And frankly, I agree.
Shovel Knight's creators for example, is an indie dev of five people. For better or worse, they're not comparable to a giant Japanese gaming giant. Or their icons. But they're also a lot more amicable with the use of their character.
Shovel Knight has been out for only a year and he's already cameoed in what, 10+ games now?
Honestly, if YCG or Wayforward were approached to get their characters in Smash, I'd not be surprised if they sent people from their companies in just to help make it happen.
Like, with the indies, I feel like the makers would bend over backwards to make it possible. Evident by how hard both have tried to campaign for their characers.
A) Mickey has always been huge world-wide. He's one of few characters that could be argued to have Mario or Pac-man tier popularity andd recognizability.
b) No. None of the legal amount of work for Goku has been done. Bamco doesn't own rights to jack-crap. It is all in the hands of Toriama and Toei. Would Bamco employees have a good idea on how to use Goku for Smash? Yes. (but who wouldn't) Would they allow a port of his Xenoverse model to cut corners? For a cost and another contractual step, yes. Goku isn't a video game character and his rights aren't owned by a video game company.
This would be unlikely, but what if we got Venusaur and Blastoise as newcomers to celebrate Pokémon's upcoming 20th anniversary? Venusaur could have Ivysaur's moveset from Brawl with Leech Seed as a new special attack and Mega Venusaur w/Solar Beam as its Final Smash. Blastoise could have Squirtle's moveset from Brawl with Waterfall as a new special attack and Mega Blastoise w/Hydro Cannon as its Final Smash.
was announced? I barely even see any of the indie duo mentioned in Youtube comments anymore.
), Bomberman, and Rayman.
![[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]](/data/avatars/l/267/267037.jpg?1450250857){kind=avatar}
