Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Aetheri]

Any new leaks or news for Smash?

Haven't been up to date with any in a long time.

Only thing significant would be the upcoming Smash Broadcast this Tuesday which includes details on...nothing else has been revealed since the November Direct...

 

[RoseyBetch]

I originally expected this to be about 20 minutes long, similar to the E3 presentation. However, the fact that they let everyone get hyped up for it almost a month beforehand leads me to believe it will be 30-45 minutes instead.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

So if there's any remaining third party characters left, here's what I want to see (Fighters, Stages, and Mii Costumes).

Super Smash Bros X Final Fantasy
Fighter: Cloud
Stage: Midgar
Mii Costumes: Chocobo (Brawler), Tidus (Swordfighter), Black Mage (Gunner)

Super Smash Bros X Crash Bandicoot
Fighter: Crash Bandicoot
Stage: N' Sanity Island
Mii Costumes: Crunch Bandicoot (Brawler), Cortex (Gunner)

Super Smash Bros X Banjo & Kazooie
Fighter: Banjo & Kazooie
Stage: Spiral Mountain
Mii Costumes: Bottles (Brawler), Gruntilda (Swordfighter), Mumbo Jumbo (Gunner)

Super Smash Bros X Metal Gear Solid
Fighter: Snake
Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Mii Costumes: Psyco Mantis (Brawler), Gray Fox (Swordfighter), Ocelot (Gunner)

Super Smash Bros. X Rayman
Fighter: Rayman
Stage: Glade of Dreams
Mii costumes:
: Globox, Rabbid
: Barbara
: Teensie

Fighter: Knuckles
Stage: Angel Island
Mii costumes:
: Tails
: Amy Rose
: Doctor Eggman

Super Smash Bros. X Tomb Raider
Fighter: Lara Croft
Stage: Too many options, maybe Croft Manor?
Mii costumes: No clue, besides Lara I can't name anyone else from this series off the top of my head

 

[Gimmick]

What I wish to see...

Cloud/Midgard/Chocobo mii hat release date
: Black Mage... Sephiroth... Zack
: Tifa
: Barret


Wolf: this is more of an expectation than anything. I don't really care for Wolf, but there's to much evidence that points towards his inclusion. Highly requested, veteran, easy to make, and Star Fox Zero promotion.

King K. Rool: once again, not a character I have any interest in seeing, but someone I expect to be present.

Inklings: Same as above. plus a stage.

Okay, but here's the stuff I actually want to see...

Issac: don't really care for this character. I just think he'd bring a lot of unique stuff to smash.

Super Smash Brothers X Mortal Kombat!
Fighter: Scorpion
Stage: Shao-Kahn's arena
: Sub-Zero
: Lui-Kang

Also, I don''t expect this much content to be in the direct. Just my thoughts of what could potentially show up.. Except for the MK stuff.

 

[Ura]

Any new leaks or news for Smash?

Haven't been up to date with any in a long time.

Methinks there's going to be a leak on Monday (the day of the maintenance) hence why i'll be completely off SB during that day.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Any new leaks or news for Smash?

Haven't been up to date with any in a long time.

No but Nintendo and Microsoft have gotten unusually chummy in the past week with not one but three public statements. Seems pretty well timed if you ask me.

 

[Wolfie557]

Personally, Banjo would be just.. meh. :/

 

[Gimmick]

Yeah...

I really don't want to see Banjo. To me that feels like a step down more than anything. Like, he's a cool character, but to me he just doesn't seem to carry that much of an impact. We just got Cloud revealed! You know, one of the most notable video game characters of all time, and from a franchise that's achieved over 100 million in sells. Then we get a character that just has two really good games and then feel of the face of the Earth.

Have his games even done anything notable? Maybe I'm being ignorant since I wasn't around during Banjo's peak, but he just doesn't seem all that notable. Heck, I wouldn't even know about him if it wasn't for smash speculation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Personally, Banjo would be just.. meh. :/

Honestly, that reminds me of something. Because DLC needs to sell to justify costs, popular characters are more profitable. However, when we argued about Geno, we said he would be unknown to the general crowd. I have not seen this argument get used against Banjo Kazooie despite the fact it's one of his biggest issues

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, that reminds me of something. Because DLC needs to sell to justify costs, popular characters are more profitable. However, when we argued about Geno, we said he would be unknown to the general crowd. I have not seen this argument get used against Banjo Kazooie despite the fact it's one of his biggest issues

Because you ignore the fact that he's not unknown to the general gamer in this universe or the next, considering how quickly Y-L was funded and that just about every gaming journalism outlet reported and spread Phil's tweet like wildfire.

I would say that's clear evidence against the fact. Banjo would sell himself just fine, better than any other character viable for DLC at this point I'd argue.

"I don't like this character" =/= this character isn't popular.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would say that's clear evidence against the fact. Banjo would sell himself just fine, better than any other character viable for DLC at this point I'd argue.

Including K. Rool?

 

[memoryman3]

Who WOULDN'T sell?

Fighting games have high DLC attach rates for a reason, people would gobble any new fighter up, as most offer new gameplay. Lucas and Roy aren't too well know yet Smash DLC sold more than Mario Kart's excellent track packs.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah...

I really don't want to see Banjo. To me that feels like a step down more than anything. Like, he's a cool character, but to me he just doesn't seem to carry that much of an impact. We just got Cloud revealed! You know, one of the most notable video game characters of all time, and from a franchise that's achieved over 100 million in sells. Then we get a character that just has two really good games and then feel of the face of the Earth.

Have his games even done anything notable? Maybe I'm being ignorant since I wasn't around during Banjo's peak, but he just doesn't seem all that notable. Heck, I wouldn't even know about him if it wasn't for smash speculation.

Couldn't you say the same for Mega Man?

Aside from some occasional cameos here and there, he's been very underground.

Most people around here only really knew about him due to Smash speculation leading people to play his games.

I still remember seeing posts two years ago of people saying they'd played the NES Megamans for the first time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Who WOULDN'T sell?

Fighting games have high DLC attach rates for a reason, people would gobble any new fighter up, as most offer new gameplay. Lucas and Roy aren't too well know yet Smash DLC sold more than Mario Kart's excellent track packs.

Lucas and Roy were in the critically acclaimed 'Super Smash Brothers' franchise, I heard it's pretty good

 

[Schnee117]

Honestly, that reminds me of something. Because DLC needs to sell to justify costs, popular characters are more profitable. However, when we argued about Geno, we said he would be unknown to the general crowd. I have not seen this argument get used against Banjo Kazooie despite the fact it's one of his biggest issues

It's because Banjo has made more appearances on more consoles thanks to his only two good games constantly getting re-released over and over plus there's his other games like Nuts& Bolts. He's also made guest appearances in other games like Diddy Kong Racing on the N64 and Sonic and SEGA "All-Stars" Racing on the 360.

Doesn't make him any less disappointing in terms of the characters MS has available. There's Steve, there's Chief and then there's Banjo. Banjo doesn't come close to carrying the same weight as the former duo.

Who WOULDN'T sell?

Fighting games have high DLC attach rates for a reason, people would gobble any new fighter up, as most offer new gameplay. Lucas and Roy aren't too well know yet Smash DLC sold more than Mario Kart's excellent track packs.

That's because Lucas and Roy are veterans that had some relatively high demand.
Poor

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Couldn't you say the same for Mega Man?

Aside from some occasional cameos here and there, he's been very underground.

Most people around here only really knew about him due to Smash speculation leading people to play his games.

I still remember seeing posts two years ago of people saying they'd played the NES Megamans for the first time.

I'd compare Banjo more to K. Rool than Mega Man, if anything.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Still makes me sad that Undertake is impossible to have on the Wii U as much as Toby would have liked it. I feel that main character would have been a decent competitor for Shovel Knight and Shantae when it comes to indie representation.

Imagine what type of music would be provided like Hopes and Dreams and Spider Dance (Bias because bias). Seeing a staff based on Horland or Snowdin would be a great way of representing such a wacky world. But its late release and lack of advertisement truly hurts it from having any presence in the ballot. Added to the fact that an official Japanese release would take a while according to Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

Because you ignore the fact that he's not unknown to the general gamer in this universe or the next, considering how quickly Y-L was funded and that just about every gaming journalism outlet reported and spread Phil's tweet like wildfire.

I would say that's clear evidence against the fact. Banjo would sell himself just fine, better than any other character viable for DLC at this point I'd argue.

But does the average gamer go on Kickstarter to fund games? Does the average gamer go on Twitter and read these kinds of Tweets?

 

[Deleted member]

Including K. Rool?

Yes, because Banjo is better known than DK's villain.

The general consensus of the smash fanbase is not representative of most gamers.

In fact, the ideas you see here often run counter to the majority of people.

Simple question, have you ever seen any mainstream gaming outlet ever report, speculate or even acknowledge K.Rool?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Still makes me sad that Undertake is impossible to have on the Wii U as much as Toby would have liked it. I feel that main character would have been a decent competitor for Shovel Knight and Shantae when it comes to indie representation.

Imagine what type of music would be provided like Hopes and Dreams and Spider Dance (Bias because bias). Seeing a staff based on Horland or Snowdin would be a great way of representing such a wacky world. But its late release and lack of advertisement truly hurts it from having any presence in the ballot. Added to the fact that an official Japanese release would take a while according to Fox.

Shovel Knight and Shantae are praised for multiple reasons, mostly gameplay. I hear Undertale praise a lot, but nothing on gameplay. I don't think it's exactly the best comparison

 

[Gimmick]

Couldn't you say the same for Mega Man?

Aside from some occasional cameos here and there, he's been very underground.

Most people around here only really knew about him due to Smash speculation leading people to play his games.

I still remember seeing posts two years ago of people saying they'd played the NES Megamans for the first time.

No...

Not really. I'm pretty sure that your average person knows who Mega Man is.

 

[Deleted member]

But does the average gamer go on Kickstarter to fund games? Does the average gamer go on Twitter and read these kinds of Tweets?

You tell me.

Are you insinuating Smash fans who support Banjo were the only ones to throw money at that project and fund it in mere hours?

The world is much bigger than SWF. The fact that pretty much every gaming media outlet reported Phil's tweet makes the idea rather mainstream.

Shut your eyes and plug your ears all you want, but ignoring fact doesn't change what they mean.

No...

Not really. I'm pretty sure that your average person knows who Mega Man is.

"Pretty sure"

Right... is that opinion founded on anything, or is it just personal bias?

Because I have evidence that runs contrary.

People know Mario, people know Pikachu, but not that many know Mega Man.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Still makes me sad that Undertake is impossible to have on the Wii U as much as Toby would have liked it. I feel that main character would have been a decent competitor for Shovel Knight and Shantae when it comes to indie representation.

Imagine what type of music would be provided like Hopes and Dreams and Spider Dance (Bias because bias). Seeing a staff based on Horland or Snowdin would be a great way of representing such a wacky world. But its late release and lack of advertisement truly hurts it from having any presence in the ballot. Added to the fact that an official Japanese release would take a while according to Fox.

As much I love Undetale and It's music and I wish it could be on Wii U, the Main Character does not have a lot to work with

Now if it were Toriel or Papyrus...

 

[Deleted member]

The fact that pretty much every gaming media outlet reported Phil's tweet makes the idea rather mainstream.

My second question is relevant to this sentence.

Does the average gamer go on Twitter and read these kinds of Tweets?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Simple question, have you ever seen any mainstream gaming outlet ever report, speculate or even acknowledge K.Rool?

Does this count?

 

[Deleted member]

My second question is relevant to this sentence.

Dude, of it was reported by IGN where pretty much ALL the average gamers gather, I'm sure you can asdume EVERYONE heard of it.

Hell, the sheer number of likes and retweets it got stand as evidence.

What are you trying to prove here.

"Yeah, but does the average gamer follow twitter?"

Dude, IGN reported a tweet, it doesn't matter if they do ir don't.

Does the average gamer speculate about Smash?

What gives other characters more merit than 3rd party icons then?

Does this count?

I would say no, given the context and actual tone of the report.

It's not "gasp, K.Rool deconfirmed" it's, "Nintendo had a new update for Smash, this is the content."

But ofc, people will disagree with me because they will only make superficial comparisons.

 

[Gimmick]

"Pretty sure"

Right... is that opinion founded on anything, or is it just personal bias?

Because I have evidence that runs contrary.

People know Mario, people know Pikachu, but not that many know Mega Man.

Um. Eh. Yeah. Honestly? Your comparison of Banjo to Mega Man is somewhat laughable. Mega Man isn't just a video game icon. He's a pop culture icon. Where's the Banjo and Kazooie cartoon? Where are all the fan games? Where are the comics? Etc... I mean really. Plus Mega Man is referenced in tons of other media. None of this can really be applied to Banjo. Plus those cameos you speak of are what helps to keep a character relevant.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Honestly, Banjo only ever became a popular smash candidate after that tweet came out, I never saw anyone talking about him beforehand

 

[Deleted member]

Um. Eh. Yeah. Honestly? Your comparison of Banjo to Mega Man is somewhat laughable. Mega Man isn't just a video game icon. He's a pop culture icon. Where's the Banjo and Kazooie cartoon? Where are all the fan games? Where are the comics? Etc... I mean really. Plus Mega Man is referenced in tons of other media. None of this can really be applied to Banjo. Plus those cameos you speak of are what helps to keep a character relevant.

Yeah, he WAS a pop culture icon, in the 90s.

His current standing is nearly identical to Banjo's.

And Banjo had his cameos too. As well as generational rereleases of his games.

Rare Replay was a summer best-seller.

Your experience with Banjo serves as anecdotal evidence, it's a logical fallacy. Just cause you never heard of Banjo till now doesn't make him any less popular.

We've had this conversation before, but all the millennial kiddies keep insisting he's not important cause they didn't have an n64. The irony of it is that if Banjo gets added as DLC, you will all jump on the "he's a gaming icon" bandwagon, like you've done time and again...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly, Banjo only ever became a popular smash candidate after that tweet came out, I never saw anyone talking about him beforehand

That's because barely anyone thought he even had a sliver of a chance to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, Banjo only ever became a popular smash candidate after that tweet came out, I never saw anyone talking about him beforehand

It's not that he was unpopular, it's just that it was a pipe dream for everyone because he was owned by Microsoft.

In the speculation for Brawl and 4, his name was brought up again and again, always followed with "if only" and a "**** tou M$."

Check the old threads, it's all there, you young bloods just weren't there for it.

 

[Ura]

Honestly, Crash is really the best choice for third party DLC given that he's a huge gaming icon and even sold twice as much as the Rayman series not to mention he was up there with Mario and Sonic in the PS1 era (occasionally outselling Mario). Truly the best 3rd party icon to represent the platforming genre (sory Banjo and Rayman)

If it's going to come down to Banjo VS Crash VS Rayman, it should be Crash that takes priority out of the 3. You can make argument for either Banjo or Rayman as to who gets in after. Rayman outsold the Banjo series but Banjo is arguably more requested to be in Smash and has his roots on Nintendo consoles (even being a huge part of the N64 era).

Personally, I would go with Banjo. I just don't care about Rayman. Didn't even know he was a big gaming star until the fake leak from February. All I knew about him was that he had this mobile game I played on my Dad's phone as a kid as well as a spinoff game that came in a cereal box or something. That and his trophy in Smash 4.

 

[Polan]

Bruh. I'm wasn't around in the N64 era and even I know who Banjo is. His inclusion would break Jontron the internet and be probably more hype than half of the characters people are suggesting here. I mean Microsoft and Nintendo collaborating and bringing back a beloved fan-favorite character that everybody thought had no chance to one of gaming's finest celebration? The hype would be unreal.

 

[Andyomon00]

You tell me.

Are you insinuating Smash fans who support Banjo were the only ones to throw money at that project and fund it in mere hours?

The world is much bigger than SWF. The fact that pretty much every gaming media outlet reported Phil's tweet makes the idea rather mainstream.

Shut your eyes and plug your ears all you want, but ignoring fact doesn't change what they mean.

Hate to interject but your argument is unsubstantiated

Banjo has not been in the mainstream for years, Phil's tweet is the first time that Banjo has been mentioned since Nuts and Bolts. B-K is good game but never ground breaking like Mega Man or Super Mario Bros. so it makes sense he would fade into obscurity (it doesn't help B-K has 2 games). Also the people who funded Y-L were people who already were fans B-K and wanted a proper sequel. It was literally a kick starter that was funded by the nostalgia people have for those games, just like how Mighty No.9 was funded by those who had history with Mega Man.

You shouldn't accuse people of having biases and being willfully ignorant just because they don't agree with you, because you're not much better.

 

[Deleted member]

Hate to interject but your argument is unsubstantiated

Banjo has not been in the mainstream for years, Phil's tweet is the first time that Banjo has been mentioned since Nuts and Bolts. B-K is good game but never ground breaking like Mega Man or Super Mario Bros. so it makes sense he would fade into obscurity (it doesn't help B-K has 2 games). Also the people who funded Y-L were people who already were fans B-K and wanted a proper sequel. It was literally a kick starter that was funded by the nostalgia people have for those games, just like how Mighty No.9 was funded by those who had history with Mega Man.

You shouldn't accuse people of having biases and being willfully ignorant just because they don't agree with you, because you're not much better.

Then explain to me how Banjos situation right now is any different from Mega Man's before he was revealed for Smash.

 

[Aetheri]

I think people are looking too deeply into 'who recognises the character'...lets be honest here the average gamer isn't going to recognise Roy & Lucas...YES...they are veterans to Smash but that still doesn't take away from the fact that they are still niche characters in gaming in general...their games haven't contributed much other than having decent sales in Japan...

It isn't about whether or not casuals or hardcore fans of gaming or Nintendo will recognise said characters...when it comes to DLC, its about those who care...Sakurai asks the fanbase who they want for DLC so if he's going to add a character the fanbase doesn't ask for he's going to add least a character the fanbase will likely care about...

Banjo & Kazooie on the other hand is a character that the fanbase has been asking for, for quite a while now...in fact Sakurai himself has considered the pair for melee and, looking at Duck Hunt, he still has them on his mind knowing they are characters that the fanbase would like to see...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Then explain to me how Banjos situation right now is any different from Mega Man's before he was revealed for Smash.

Because Mega Man is a way bigger series with a bunch of games spanning multiple generations as well as a bunch of other forms of media available like the anime series and the comics which i believe still runs to this day

Bruh. I'm wasn't around in the N64 era and even I know who Banjo is. His inclusion would break Jontron the internet and be probably more hype than half of the characters people are suggesting here. I mean Microsoft and Nintendo collaborating and bringing back a beloved fan-favorite character that everybody thought had no chance to one of gaming's finest celebration? The hype would be unreal.

You do realize that you are just one person and don't represent everybody your age right? Ask anyone around Smash 4's target audience who Banjo is and you'll probably just be looked at with confusion unlike Street Fighter or Final Fantasy

 

[Deleted member]

Because Mega Man is a way bigger series with a bunch of games spanning multiple generations as well as a bunch of other forms of media available like the anime series and the comics which i believe still runs to this day

Reread my question again, and try to answer again.

How is Megaman two years ago, any different from Banjo NOW?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

As much I love Undetale and It's music and I wish it could be on Wii U, the Main Character does not have a lot to work with

Now if it were Toriel or Papyrus...

Hell to the yes!

Still makes me sad that Undertake is impossible to have on the Wii U as much as Toby would have liked it. I feel that main character would have been a decent competitor for Shovel Knight and Shantae when it comes to indie representation.

Imagine what type of music would be provided like Hopes and Dreams and Spider Dance (Bias because bias). Seeing a staff based on Horland or Snowdin would be a great way of representing such a wacky world. But its late release and lack of advertisement truly hurts it from having any presence in the ballot. Added to the fact that an official Japanese release would take a while according to Fox.

Coming from someone who likes the game, it truly isn't that revolutionary compared to its fellow indies peers. While I can't deny that the game has that huge cult following, the gameplay is a huge mixed bag for fans and non-fans alike (sparing can be a chore at times and you're going to have s bad time if you don't have any experience with bullet hell games).

Plus, I'm not really sure if Japan would like the game either when it does get localized. It's got that RPG charm and colorful world they would love, plus anime jokes. But the dark themes might turn them off (That's part of why Mother 3 had mixed reception there) and some of the puns would easily be lost in translation (Like the comic sans and Papyrus text for the Skellebros).

 

[Andyomon00]

Then explain to me how Banjos situation right now is any different from Mega Man's before he was revealed for Smash.

Because Mega Man is most popular franchise of all time with several generations of fans that has had a substantial impact of both platformers and gaming culture. there has been an iteration of mega man for every generation since the 80's, so he's pretty relevant

B-K has had 2 good games that came out over 10 years ago, and has been falling into obscurity ever since.