Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because Mega Man is a way bigger series with a bunch of games spanning multiple generations as well as a bunch of other forms of media available like the anime series and the comics which i believe still runs to this day

The comics are currently active. He also was highly requested for Brawl and in general(till he got in, of course). When the possibility of another 3rd party was mentioned for Brawl, MegaMan got requested highly often.

MegaMan always stayed relevant, really. It's too bad many of his games were cancelled, though.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Reread my question again, and try to answer again.

How is Megaman two years ago, any different from Banjo NOW?

Because Mega Man is a way bigger and more popular series that's still living (not as much mind you but it's around), it's not that complicated

 

[Deleted member]

Because Mega Man is a way bigger and more popular series that's still living (not as much mind you but it's around), it's not that complicated

And Banjo was a Nintendo mascot.

That's still not answering my question though. You're talking about his peak, I'm not asking about his peak.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

And Banjo was a Nintendo mascot.

That's still not answering my question though. You're talking about his peak, I'm not asking about his peak.

I'm not talking about his peak, Mega Man is still a character that lives on, he's still got his comics, he's got a anime and movie coming up, he's got games that while cancelled were still a thing like Legends and Maverick hunter. What's Banjo got? Rare Replay (Mega man also had a collection all to himself just recently) and Nuts and Bolts like 7 years ago which everybody hated.

Mega Man is still relevant. Banjo is not.

 

[Wolfie557]

Honestly, Crash is really the best choice for third party DLC given that he's a huge gaming icon and even sold twice as much as the Rayman series not to mention he was up there with Mario and Sonic in the PS1 era (occasionally outselling Mario). Truly the best 3rd party icon to represent the platforming genre (sory Banjo and Rayman)

If it's going to come down to Banjo VS Crash VS Rayman, it should be Crash that takes priority out of the 3. You can make argument for either Banjo or Rayman as to who gets in after. Rayman outsold the Banjo series but Banjo is arguably more requested to be in Smash and has his roots on Nintendo consoles (even being a huge part of the N64 era).

Personally, I would go with Banjo. I just don't care about Rayman. Didn't even know he was a big gaming star until the fake leak from February. All I knew about him was that he had this mobile game I played on my Dad's phone as a kid as well as a spinoff game that came in a cereal box or something. That and his trophy in Smash 4.

Fair enough there. I actually knew about Rayman & Pacman before Mario & Sonic.....& megaman.....lolz.
I have no care for Banjo.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Hell to the yes!

Not before we get Doggo!

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Honestly, Crash is really the best choice for third party DLC given that he's a huge gaming icon and even sold twice as much as the Rayman series not to mention he was up there with Mario and Sonic in the PS1 era (occasionally outselling Mario). Truly the best 3rd party icon to represent the platforming genre (sory Banjo and Rayman)

If it's going to come down to Banjo VS Crash VS Rayman, it should be Crash that takes priority out of the 3. You can make argument for either Banjo or Rayman as to who gets in after. Rayman outsold the Banjo series but Banjo is arguably more requested to be in Smash and has his roots on Nintendo consoles (even being a huge part of the N64 era).

Personally, I would go with Banjo. I just don't care about Rayman. Didn't even know he was a big gaming star until the fake leak from February. All I knew about him was that he had this mobile game I played on my Dad's phone as a kid as well as a spinoff game that came in a cereal box or something. That and his trophy in Smash 4.

I'd say Rayman is quite a bit bigger, his games sold better like you mentioned, his games are still going on (Although I'm still salty about that mobile game, I feel like I was tricked) and he's had more representation outside of gaming like the animated series, he was also France's football mascot like Pikachu was in japan, stuff like that

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, because Banjo is better known than DK's villain.

The general consensus of the smash fanbase is not representative of most gamers.

In fact, the ideas you see here often run counter to the majority of people.

Simple question, have you ever seen any mainstream gaming outlet ever report, speculate or even acknowledge K.Rool?

That's cause DK and Diddy are far more marketable in their own rights. Even Rare themselves never really seemed to promote King K.Rool that much, but he was always a beloved villain by everyone. In fact, it wasn't untill much later that villains as Bowser and Ganondorf became more popular either. In fact, I'd say that King K.Rool had both beat in sheer personality by the time his last major appearance by his own creators ; DK64 compared to other Nintendo villains.

Besides that, DKC sold 10 million units just in 1994 alone and is still a running series. I wouldn't say Banjo isn't well known, but I wouldn't be as confident as you claiming he is better known than King K.Rool. They are both very appealing to Smash's fanbase, and especially Rare's fanbase. Honestly, Banjo is at this point for me the best substitute for King K.Rool where he not to appear, next best being Dixie.

Want list for DLC, just because:

King K.Rool
Isaac
Banjo-Kazooie
Impa
Dixie Kong

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not talking about his peak, Mega Man is still a character that lives on, he's still got his comics, he's got a anime and movie coming up, he's got games that while cancelled were still a thing like Legends and Maverick hunter. What's Banjo got? Rare Replay (Mega man also had a collection all to himself just recently) and Nuts and Bolts like 7 years ago which everybody hated.

Mega Man is still relevant. Banjo is not.

"Relevant"

There's that word again.

You can't be relevant, you have to be relevant TO something.

Saying something is irrelevant is purely subjective, it means "this isn't relevant to me" it's a vague, unsubstantiatiable generalization.

And everything you said is wrong.

Megaman hasn't had a game in years, all the games he had in development were cancelled by Capcom due to them fearing it would ne unsuccessful, and his first appearance in a long time in SFxTekken was seen as an insult by all Mega Man fans.

His franchise is so dead, people threw money at Inafune hoping Mighty No.9 turns out well.

Sound familiar?

Oh, but because Mega Man is now in Smash, "he's always been relevant" and never faded in obscurity for all the years people were crying for new MM content.

Banjo's situation is literally the same as Megaman's in.the gaming industry, but because people have hindsight bias, they claim it's different.

 

[Serell]

I can't believe this argument is happening.

The difference is, Megaman was so big that it doesn't matter that he hasn't had a true game in years; EVERYONE still remembers him.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yo, @ManlySpirit , was Mega Man a character where there were people questioning his icon status before he got revealed?

 

[Banjodorf]

Honestly, that reminds me of something. Because DLC needs to sell to justify costs, popular characters are more profitable. However, when we argued about Geno, we said he would be unknown to the general crowd. I have not seen this argument get used against Banjo Kazooie despite the fact it's one of his biggest issues

Because Geno is definitely not in the same league as Banjo.

Being unknown is also not one of Banjo's issues. Look at how unbelievably quickly Yooka-Laylee funded. Look at how many people on SWF and beyond began vying for Banjo as soon as it became apparent there was actually a chance. Yes, this kind of bandwagon mentality happens, but there's been outcry for Banjo to come back to Nintendo for YEARS. And now there's a chance it might actually happen.

There's always "been a chance" for Geno, but it's been slim because of how ultimately unimportant Geno is. Popular? With certain circles, but he's not a star of any of his own games, OR a mascot for any developer. Geno (I love him and SMRPG, btw) is not the same situation as Banjo in any imaginable capacity.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yo, @ManlySpirit , was Mega Man a character where there were people questioning his icon status before he got revealed?

I think a better question is how long was Mega Man requested? He was a pretty damn high request iirc, back in Melee at the very least, when his franchise was still booming with success

 

[Ura]

Fair enough there. I actually knew about Rayman & Pacman before Mario & Sonic.....& megaman.....lolz.
I have no care for Banjo.

I guess were all different as to when we found out about certain series.

Personally, I never had anyone talk about Rayman at all growing up. Literally. Even when I was in grade school, nobody ever brought up Rayman or anything to do with his series.

I'd say Rayman is quite a bit bigger, his games sold better like you mentioned, his games are still going on (Although I'm still salty about that mobile game, I feel like I was tricked) and he's had more representation outside of gaming like the animated series, he was also France's football mascot like Pikachu was in japan, stuff like that

By the mobile game, I was talking about some next mobile game on a cell phone (was pre-installed on the phone) that was really low quality from 10 years ago (2005-2006ish). I played that game on my Dad's cell phone when I was 10-11 years old though I never bothered to venture that far in it.

I just never knew about Rayman all that much. I went pretty much my entire life thinking he was some next obscure video game character based on the fact that I never heard anyone talk about him at all. Personally speaking, him as a playable character in Smash doesn't interest me that much. If he was in the vanilla roster, i'd warm up to him but him as DLC doesn't sound that appealing to me personally.

Crash and Banjo on the other hand i'd absolutely love to see in the game and would be beyond hyped for. One is a gaming mascot and the other is a series I adored as a kid.

 

[papagenos]

But does the average gamer go on Kickstarter to fund games? Does the average gamer go on Twitter and read these kinds of Tweets?

In 2015? Yes. Yes they do.

 

[Andyomon00]

"Relevant"

There's that word again.

You can't be relevant, you have to be relevant TO something.

Saying something is irrelevant is purely subjective, it means "this isn't relevant to me" it's a vague, unsubstantiatiable generalization.

And everything you said is wrong.

Megaman hasn't had a game in years, all the games he had in development were cancelled by Capcom due to them fearing it would ne unsuccessful, and his first appearance in a long time in SFxTekken was seen as an insult by all Mega Man fans.

His franchise is so dead, people threw money at Inafune hoping Mighty No.9 turns out well.

Sound familiar?

Oh, but because Mega Man is now in Smash, "he's always been relevant" and never faded in obscurity for all the years people were crying for new MM content.

Banjo's situation is literally the same as Mega man's in.the gaming industry, but because people have hindsight bias, they claim it's different.

What are you talking about? You are actually grasping at straws with your argument

Mega Man is relevant to the gaming sphere, many of the people in that sphere are huge mega man fans. Despite Mega Man seemingly dying, he is known and actively sought after by a those generations of fans. Banjo is barely known outside his fanbase

But the thing is you'll never except that, because you literally block out anything that contradicts your argument and perpetuate it forever. Don't let your bias blind you to reality.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In 2015? Yes. Yes they do.

lolno. The average gamer is the average joe, the person who doesn't do anything outside of the norm. Kickstarters are still new, many people are still largely skeptical

 

[3D Dillon]

Imagine if someone confronts Sakurai in person and tells him "After this December direct, I'd like it better if you'd only be the main host of a Smash presentation in the Japanese version. You should have someone else who actually speaks English to do the hosting of those presentations. You may also want a co-director who's fluent in English and is more social with the Western world that has a lot of Smash fans." How would Sakurai feel?

 

[Deleted member]

What are you talking about? You are actually grasping at straws with your argument

Mega Man is relevant to the gaming sphere, many of the people in that sphere are huge mega man fans. Despite Mega Man seemingly dying, he is known and actively sought after by a those generations of fans. Banjo is barely known outside his fanbase

But the thing is you'll never except that, because you literally block out anything that contradicts your argument and perpetuate it forever. Don't let your bias blind you to reality.

You claim this, yet you cite no evidence nor provide examples.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

"Relevant"

There's that word again.

You can't be relevant, you have to be relevant TO something.

Saying something is irrelevant is purely subjective, it means "this isn't relevant to me" it's a vague, unsubstantiatiable generalization.

And everything you said is wrong.

Megaman hasn't had a game in years, all the games he had in development were cancelled by Capcom due to them fearing it would ne unsuccessful, and his first appearance in a long time in SFxTekken was seen as an insult by all Mega Man fans.

His franchise is so dead, people threw money at Inafune hoping Mighty No.9 turns out well.

Sound familiar?

Oh, but because Mega Man is now in Smash, "he's always been relevant" and never faded in obscurity for all the years people were crying for new MM content.

Banjo's situation is literally the same as Megaman's in.the gaming industry, but because people have hindsight bias, they claim it's different.

Those games weren't cancelled because they thought they'd be unsuccessful, they were cancelled because inafune left

The thing is though, they at least had games planned and were acknowledging the series, Banjo had one game since the buyout and hasn't been mentioned since

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Those games weren't cancelled because they thought they'd be unsuccessful, they were cancelled because inafune left

The thing is though, they at least had games planned and were acknowledging the series, Banjo had one game since the buyout and hasn't been mentioned since

Banjo had 4 games iirc. Only one ever gets mentioned, nobody remembers the others

 

[Diddy Kong]

"Relevant"

There's that word again.

You can't be relevant, you have to be relevant TO something.

Saying something is irrelevant is purely subjective, it means "this isn't relevant to me" it's a vague, unsubstantiatiable generalization.

And everything you said is wrong.

Megaman hasn't had a game in years, all the games he had in development were cancelled by Capcom due to them fearing it would ne unsuccessful, and his first appearance in a long time in SFxTekken was seen as an insult by all Mega Man fans.

His franchise is so dead, people threw money at Inafune hoping Mighty No.9 turns out well.

Sound familiar?

Oh, but because Mega Man is now in Smash, "he's always been relevant" and never faded in obscurity for all the years people were crying for new MM content.

Banjo's situation is literally the same as Megaman's in.the gaming industry, but because people have hindsight bias, they claim it's different.

It's for these reasons I never expected Mega Man to get into Smash.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Banjo had 4 games iirc. Only one ever gets mentioned, nobody remembers the others

I was talking about recently, Banjo has only had one game since like 2003

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay so Banjo didn't had a Nintendo game in a while? Intredasting.

Now tell me all about when Cloud had his most prominent Nintendo games, cause I missed out on that part.

While we're at it, throw some spotlight on Ryu as well. Am dying to know at this point!

 

[predator_21476]

Guys seriously stop the arguments about banjo. Everything that you guys are arguing about is subjective. Wait the the three days and see if he gets in. The flame wars get us nowhere. Let's talk about something other than characters because we've probably covered most of the options there. So let's talk stages from existing franchises or game modes.

 

[777Laser]

I don't know who Shantae or Banjo Kazooie is. I'm a casual gamer, not sure if that's the same as an average gamer though

 

[Banjodorf]

...I'd actually argue that the "average gamer" would recognize Cloud as "That Final Fantasy guy" in the same way they would recognize Banjo. 7 is a more popular game overall, but character designs have specific appeal and iconic status, even if they don't know the games they're from.

Guys seriously stop the arguments about banjo. Everything that you guys are arguing about is subjective. Wait the the three days and see if he gets in. The flame wars get us nowhere. Let's talk about something other than characters because we've probably covered most of the options there. So let's talk stages from existing franchises or game modes.

I agree. Was actually going to post something similar. The people posting in here, for or against, have subjective opinions on how "important" a character is. And considering "iconic" can mean more than just sales, and ultimately it's Sakurai's choice how "iconic" someone is, it doesn't matter at all what we think here.

Then again, that's never stopped us arguing in circles before.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Okay so Banjo didn't had a Nintendo game in a while? Intredasting.

Now tell me all about when Cloud had his most prominent Nintendo games, cause I missed out on that part.

While we're at it, throw some spotlight on Ryu as well. Am dying to know at this point!

What are you talking about?

 

[Deleted member]

Those games weren't cancelled because they thought they'd be unsuccessful, they were cancelled because inafune left

The thing is though, they at least had games planned and were acknowledging the series, Banjo had one game since the buyout and hasn't been mentioned since

Except, as was proven by M9, Inafune was not the creative mind behind MM's success and the franchise couod have easily carried on w/o him.

 

[Serell]

Really want to see some Melee stages come back. Dream Land, Great Bay, and an updated Poke Floats with the new pokemonz would be chill.

 

[777Laser]

Reread my question again, and try to answer again.

How is Megaman two years ago, any different from Banjo NOW?

Contrary to what you think, people don't know banjo kazooie, but the average person (not gamer) knows mega man. He's a gaming icon, and that is enough to say. You can't dispute it

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As someone who joined Smash 4 speculation long after Mega Man was revealed, I wonder if people used the whole "Mega Man isn't as iconic as you think!" argument pre-E3 2013.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Talking about Banjo's possibilities is a lot more productive than all this Steve from Minecraft bull**** that has been covered the last several days. At least Banjo is a lovable character and has a long running history with Nintendo.

This thread's stupidity is really making the wait till Tuesday THAT much longer...

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo had 4 games iirc. Only one ever gets mentioned, nobody remembers the others

Tooie>Kazooie

Everyone remembers both.

Everyone hates Nuts and Bolts, and it's the most talked about.

The spinoffs are unnemorable.

There, I just proved you wrong on all counts.

 

[Naoshi]

As someone who joined Smash 4 speculation long after Mega Man was revealed, I wonder if people used the whole "Mega Man isn't as iconic as you think!" argument pre-E3 2013.

Someone seriously told me that Mega Man was a bad idea because his games were cancelled and that he would only represent "cancellation", instead of you know forgetting the fact Mega Man actually left a legacy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As someone who joined Smash 4 speculation long after Mega Man was revealed, I wonder if people used the whole "Mega Man isn't as iconic as you think!" argument pre-E3 2013.

I was a Mega Man detractor, I never said this. I mostly used Capcom's indifference towards the character to justify him being out. Also the fact he hasn't appeared in a while, especially in his classic NES appearance.

 

[Deleted member]

As someone who joined Smash 4 speculation long after Mega Man was revealed, I wonder if people used the whole "Mega Man isn't as iconic as you think!" argument pre-E3 2013.

They did, because millennials are insufferable. And trolls are abundant.

Talking about Banjo's possibilities is a lot more productive than all this Steve from Minecraft bull**** that has been covered the last several days. At least Banjo is a lovable character and has a long running history with Nintendo.

This thread's stupidity is really making the wait till Tuesday THAT much longer...

This so much, holy ****.

At this point, I mostly want Banjo to get in now, just to see this whole thread eat crow.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Contrary to what you think, people don't know banjo kazooie, but the average person (not gamer) knows mega man.

A lot of average people have trouble naming Mega Man.

 

[Substitution]

Talking about Banjo's possibilities is a lot more productive than all this Steve from Minecraft bull**** that has been covered the last several days. At least Banjo is a lovable character and has a long running history with Nintendo.

This thread's stupidity is really making the wait till Tuesday THAT much longer...

That's why I've been ducking and hiding. It's a vast Internet out there after all.

 

[Naoshi]

especially in his classic NES appearance.

...The last Mega Man games we had were Mega Man 9 and 10 though. And one of his cancelled games were based on Mega Man 2