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Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

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SuperNintendoDisney

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We'll this is quite reassuring actually. And yes it has so far been a pretty disappointing ride for people my generation (early 90s). Which I consider extremely strange, cause Smash started in this generation as well. Right now, it seems Sakurai made a drastically different approach in adding characters.

Every new character so far has either been added from a generation before me (80s) or way after me (2010+) and some in between as Villager (whom I don't really care about) , Bowser Jr. and Rosalina.

Am a loyal Nintendo fan, but because of my financial situation the last couple of years I was never able to afford a 3DS or Wii U (I play Smash Wii U a lot at my friends place however) I feel totally left out. I literally hold NO attachment towards any newcomer in Smash 4 except for Bowser Jr., whereas with Melee and especially Brawl, I felt the total opposite.

To me that is rather disappointing.
If Mewtwo had not be removed in Brawl, I think that Brawl would have had a perfect roster. The best additions of Smash 4 were Duck Hunt, Little Mac, The Koopalings, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu and the return of Mewtwo. The additions that I wasn't crazy about but agree with their inclusion are Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Greninja, Shulk and Rosalina. All of the previously mentioned characters were legit additions in my eyes since they either represent a new series (Villager, Wii Fit, Shulk), are iconic characters (Mewtwo, Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Koopalings, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu) or came from the biggest franchises and are super popular (Greninja, Rosalina). Characters I felt were weaker newcomers are Robin and Palutena, but with their inclusion, I feel those series are complete in terms of fighters and should not receive any others. I will explain why.

Robin will be forgotten as soon as the next Fire Emblem avatar lord replaces him. Robin, is the only character ever added to Smash that I really thought "Why". At least Palutena was the second Kid Icarus newcomer, but did Fire Emblem really need a third fighter? Not really, two fighters was enough for a series of its magnitude.

Palutena can at least serve as Kid Icarus' secondary representative, and I realize that she was the fan favorite chosen to be in the game. Her inclusion isn't that bad, but I say this because I feel there were stronger candidates for the fan favorite character. Issac and K Rool/Dixie would have been better choices for fan favorites because fans have been clamoring for those characters since Melee, not just just from the past couple years like Palutena. K Rool, Dixie and Issac have stood the test of time. Palutena? Her popularity comes from one recent game that didn't even sell that much of a significant amount. Palutena supporters will have you believe that Palutena is more recognizable and popular than K Rool, but that is totally not true. Before she was added to Smash Bros., Palutena was, at best, barely as popular as K Rool or even Issac. From my view, K Rool, Issac or Dixie should have been added since they were highly requested before Palutena became a "thing", but she skips the line? Oh well, Sakurai has the Kid Icarus bias and all.

A characters popularity doesn't diminish because "its been awhile" since they were popular or because the dedicated fans are too old and don't have the time to visit forums or vote in polls. Maybe people like to ignore the fact that Donkey Kong Country is one of the most successful games of all time, selling almost 10 million units in 1994 on only one platform. Considering how small the market was back then, that is phenomenal. That's the reason why you see so many bands and artists from the 70's and 80's still doing concerts and shows, they are still popular but the fans are older and aren't vocal anymore, but still listen to the music. Relevancy is completely a non-issue when it comes to Smash Bros., its an argument people like to use to throw shade on characters in order to make their own hopeful characters seem more likely.

With the return of Wolf, I feel that the entire roster will be complete and each series currently in Smash Bros. will have the perfect amount of representation. Any newcomers added after this should be from new series, old and new. The only series I can see getting more characters are Mario, Pokemon and Zelda, since those are the three flagship franchises from Nintendo that are present in Smash Bros., but I personally think those are complete as they are now as well. Of course, all of this is entirely my opinion and is not intended to make anyone cry

Edit: I wanted to comment on Pokemon. I feel that Pikachu, Mewtwo and Charizard should not be counted as the "Gen1" representatives. They are far to ingrained into Pokemon culture and lore to be limited to just "Gen1", especially Pikachu. In my eyes, the only "Gen1" Pokemon in Smash is Jigglypuff. At this point, you could say that the poster children of the Pokemon series are Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo and Lucario, and should never be removed from Smash Bros.
 
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Weeman

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I'm gonna have to deprive myself from Internet all Monday, i don't want any more leaks.
A day seems excesive for leaks to happen, bu it could.
 
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Weeman

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I must admit i have no attachment whatsoever to Isaac. But the tought of a Fighter who could make plattforms, like that Krag guy from Rivals of Aether, is quite exciting.
 

Gimmick

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Alright...

I still kind of want my dream addition to happen. This would be a Mortal Kombat character joining the roster (preferably Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Lui-Kang, or Raiden). I know it's already been discussed, but I thought I'd mention it one more time since it looks like DLC is coming to a close.

Anyway, while I seriously doubt this will happen I'd still love to see it. You can't ignore all of the stuff that Mortal Kombat has going for it. Iconic, second most successful fighting game franchise, has left a mark on the video game industry, etc.

Heck, the guy who created Street Fighter even stated that he found the game to be very enjoyable, and even went on to say that Mortal Kombat was essentially a representation of western gaming. Plus this might be are one chance to see Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter. Imagine the direct happening and we find out that will be getting Scorpion, as well as a Sub-Zero and Ken mii costume. Scorpion & Sub-Zero vs. Ryu and Ken anyone?

I know a lot of people like to point out that it's not popular in Japan, but the same could be said for Rayman, Master Chief, etc... Still... It has some presence there. Though, IMO, Japan seems to have some type of bias towards its own games. Just look at how Western products do there.

Also, I know a lot of people like to say that we already have a fighting game rep, but when was it ever established that we can't have two? We already have three platforming characters present.

Another thing a lot of people also seem to bring up is the gore. Pretty simple... Just tone it down. *BOOM* Crazy, right? I mean really. If you remove the gore then characters such as Scorpion and Sub-Zero are arguably better than Snake in many regards.

The last thing I'll drop is the fact that the creator of Mortal Kombat wants to see Scorpion in the game. https://twitter.com/noobde/status/586244135427960834
 

FalKoopa

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Speaking of leaks, please don't post obviously fake leaks.

If you know that the leak is fake, then don't bring it up here. It doesn't contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion.
 

BKupa666

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If Wolf doesn't get revealed in this Direct, then his chances of making it in to the game is pretty much done for.

Unless there's a special Star Fox Zero Direct that happens a month before the game's lauch that reveals Wolf which I think could be a possibility.
I think Wolf is the only character whose chances for a reveal after this Direct really stay alive, albeit lessened.

He's, in my opinion, the "least big deal" out of the characters who stand a chance at being chosen. He also makes perfect sense, both in terms of logistics (his easiness to make was part of why he was even chosen in the first place...and now he has existing resources!), business (he's a beloved veteran) and promotions (Star Fox Zero in 2016).

He's simultaneously obvious and yet minor enough to be revealed at the rear end of a new Star Fox trailer; it'll be the big ballot newcomers they want to milk during this Direct especially, even if they're not releasing immediately.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Yeah, i was pretty surprised to not see a newcomer who debuted in the 90s until :4cloud:. Kind of a shame, but what choices did we have? Bandana Waddle Dee, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, gen 1 and 2 Pokemon. These are the only ones i can think of on top of my head, feel free to list more if you feel like it.
*Looks to the right of my avatar*
 

Troykv

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Character that I predicted: Rosalina, Little Mac, Palutena and Mii (in some way)

Vague ideas that I predicted: A Fire Emblem Awakening Character; a "Salty reveal" in the November 12th Direct.
 

WaddleKing

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The only characters that i predicted and wanted were: Duck Hunt ( Dog ) ( As one of the potential new retro characters ) and Bowser Jr. ( as the new Mario rep ).
Other characters i predicted ( In some way, it's been long since then so my memory isn't bright ) but didn't want were: Pac-Man, Miis, Palutena, Shulk and Little Mac.
 
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ErenJager

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I'm predicting it'll be Rodea because he's the SK and Shantae of Japan.

This post isn't based in fact.
 

Ura

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I think Wolf is the only character whose chances for a reveal after this Direct really stay alive, albeit lessened.

He's, in my opinion, the "least big deal" out of the characters who stand a chance at being chosen. He also makes perfect sense, both in terms of logistics (his easiness to make was part of why he was even chosen in the first place...and now he has existing resources!), business (he's a beloved veteran) and promotions (Star Fox Zero in 2016).

He's simultaneously obvious and yet minor enough to be revealed at the rear end of a new Star Fox trailer; it'll be the big ballot newcomers they want to milk during this Direct especially, even if they're not releasing immediately.
That's a good assessment. I fully expect to see a Star Fox Zero focused Direct sometime in late March or early April so Wolf would definitely have a shot then. What I want to see happen in this Direct though is a teaser of Wolf at the end of the Presentation just to let people know that he's coming in the game. It will obviously spoil him being in the game but it's not a big deal really considering everyone expects him. Maybe something like Wolf laughing at the end of the Presentation. That would be a great way to subtly confirm him before formally revealing him in the hypothetical SF Zero Direct.

Yeah, this Presentation is really looking to be big. Much more so than the June Presentation which was less than 20 minutes. I fully expect huge things to come out of this Direct and if all that means having Wolf in April, i'm totally fine with that.
 

RoseyBetch

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Even though Steve? will most likely never happen and I don't even necessarily want him in the game, I still think he would be fun to play if it were to happen. All of the things his moveset could consist of like TNT, lava buckets, arrows, sword attacks, and maybe even an armor mechanic, that as he takes damage, his armor weakens and he racks up damage more as he takes more damage. He could have a down special where he enchants his sword and gains more damage for a few seconds (kind of like WFT's down special). Not that I'm expecting or even hoping for it. It would just be interesting to see what could be done.
 

DustyPumpkin

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I wonder if we'll be getting a new mode
 

RoseyBetch

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I wonder if we'll be getting a new mode
Hopefully an adventure mode like they had in Melee or maybe Break the Targets returning. I liked how in the first two games, Break the Targets used the characters' different moves in fun puzzle-ish ways sometimes.
 

Banjodorf

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Hopefully an adventure mode like they had in Melee or maybe Break the Targets returning. I liked how in the first two games, Break the Targets used the characters' different moves in fun puzzle-ish ways sometimes.
I'd LOVE to have Break the Targets back in it's Melee incarnation. I know "Target Blast" is supposed to be the Sm4sh version of it, but it just feels like Angry Birds. Given that we've now had a greater amount of time pass than there was between Mewtwo's Reveal and release, and almost Lucas/Royu, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some surprise mode planned, and/or customs for current/yet to be revealed DLC characters.

Ugh, I wish Smashmas would get here already...
 

RoseyBetch

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I'd LOVE to have Break the Targets back in it's Melee incarnation. I know "Target Blast" is supposed to be the Sm4sh version of it, but it just feels like Angry Birds. Given that we've now had a greater amount of time pass than there was between Mewtwo's Reveal and release, and almost Lucas/Royu, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some surprise mode planned, and/or customs for current/yet to be revealed DLC characters.

Ugh, I wish Smashmas would get here already...
Maybe even a few extra event matches that include some DLC characters. Like, if you bought Mewtwo for example, you get 2-3 events revolved around Mewtwo.
 
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A Melee-esque Adventure Mode would be great! I hope that is a mode that may happen probably not but always good to hope.
 

SuperSceptile15

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I am cool with Cloud being in, don't get why all the "just another generic swordsman" salt, and since someone mentioned the ballot, I was originally gonna vote for Isaac but decided against it and gave it to another character.
People tend to come up with the lousiest excuses of why they don't want characters in Smash.
"He would just be another generic anime swordsman!"
"We can't have any more Pokémon! Only six fit onto a team!"
"Dixie Kong would just be a Diddy clone!"
"Splatoon is too new! Save the Inklings for Smash 5!"
"Bandana Dee is just a dressed-up Goomba!" (or something along those lines)

They act like they know everything when, really, we have NO idea what Sakurai is thinking.
 

Bowserlick

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Scorpion should be the go-to character if MK is to be represented. His iconic, "Get Over Here" harpoon would be amazing to use on Nintendo heroes such as Mario and Link.

His specials translate very easily to the B button configuration.

And his Final Smash would have to be a fatality. Not gory, but it should be an instant death. The splash animation would occur in the characters spot and he/she would be gone with one less stock. So in a stage surrounded by all walls with no way to fall out, Scorpion's FS would be the only way to take a stock.
 
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SuperSceptile15

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After browsing outside of Smashboards, I think I've lost count of how many times I've seen people request Goku. Don't get me wrong. He is a very cool and iconic character, but he just wouldn't fit in a game like this. Plus, Sakurai has already said Goku couldn't work? So why are there still so many people who want him in. Of course, many of them could be joking. But I feel like many of them could be serious as well.
 
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LIQUID12A

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[B][SIZE=6]@Scoliosis Jones[/SIZE][/B]'(because this isn't my list and I'd like it if you saw that tag) list of recognizable gaming icons from several months ago is eerily relevant now after Cloud(who is also on this list).

Around half of these could be safely omitted Smash-wise for a variety of reasons, but even with those out you still maintain a decent selection.
 
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ErenJager

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After browsing outside of Smashboards, I think I've lost count of how many times I've seen people request Goku. Don't get me wrong. He is a very cool and iconic character, but he just wouldn't fit in a game like this. Plus, Sakurai has already said Goku couldn't work? So why are there still so many people who want him in. Of course, many of them could be joking. But I feel like many of them could be serious as well.
How about Beat/ Note the Dragon Ball Heroes avatar?

Pretty much Goku, but is a video game character.


I wish, don't understand the hype about a character from a totally mediocre anime series

I'm just salty, don't let me get to you
mediocre?!

I'm about to have a mental slip, I literally can't even.
 
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Morbi

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Scorpion should be the go-to character if MK is to be represented. His iconic, "Get Over Here" harpoon would be amazing to use on Nintendo heroes such as Mario and Link.

His specials translate very easily to the B button configuration.

And his Final Smash would have to be a fatality. Not gory, but it should be an instant death. The splash animation would occur in the characters spot and he/she would be gone with one less stock. So in a stage surrounded by all walls with no way to fall out, Scorpion's FS would be the only way to take a stock.
He could always just use his "toasty" fatality. I doubt it would function as a one-hit knock out attack; however, it would not be gory in the slightest.

After browsing outside of Smashboards, I think I've lost count of how many times I've seen people request Goku. Don't get me wrong. He is a very cool and iconic character, but he just wouldn't fit in a game like this. Plus, Sakurai has already said Goku couldn't work? So why are there still so many people who want him in. Of course, many of them could be joking. But I feel like many of them could be serious as well.
Snake did not fit in "a game like this." That did not stop people from looking past that notion and enjoying his presence. Sakurai has stated a lot of things, most of which change with time or other circumstances might persuade him to go against his personal wishes... Such as a fan-voted ballot. I am not insinuating that Goku is likely, but it would be somewhat ignorant to pretend as though he is impossible as well. Why are there still so many people that want him? They enjoy him and, as you said, he is a cool and iconic character.
 

Aetheri

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@Scoliosis Jones' list of recognizable gaming icons from several months ago is eerily relevant now after Cloud(who is also on this list).

Around half of these could be safely omitted Smash-wise for a variety of reasons, but even with those out you still maintain a decent selection.
If you're including icons that are already in Smash then you're missing one very important bounty hunter...

I also think Doomguy is another fairly iconic character since Doom pretty much paved the way for FPS games...

And also Jill>>>Leon jus sayin...
 

LIQUID12A

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If you're including icons that are already in Smash then you're missing one very important bounty hunter...

I also think Doomguy is another fairly iconic character since Doom pretty much paved the way for FPS games...

And also Jill>>>Leon jus sayin...
Jones made the list, not me.

Tell that to him.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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@Scoliosis Jones' list of recognizable gaming icons from several months ago is eerily relevant now after Cloud(who is also on this list).

Around half of these could be safely omitted Smash-wise for a variety of reasons, but even with those out you still maintain a decent selection.
Some of these don't quite sit with me right, most notably Banjo, Sackboy, shepard and marcus. I'd also throw in Sora and Ratchet and since this is including first parties I'd also add yoshi, peach, bowser, charizard, mewtwo, Samus and Fox
 
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LIQUID12A

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Some of these don't quite sit with me right, most notably Banjo, Sackboy, shepard and marcus. I'd also throw in Sora and since this is including first parties I'd also add yoshi, peach, bowser, charizard, mewtwo, Samus and Fox
Jones made the list, not me.

Tell that to him.
Recycling is quite the useful thing to do.

These aren't my choices; a list made by me would differ greatly.
 
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Banjodorf

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@Scoliosis Jones' list of recognizable gaming icons from several months ago is eerily relevant now after Cloud(who is also on this list).

Around half of these could be safely omitted Smash-wise for a variety of reasons, but even with those out you still maintain a decent selection.
This seems right. I've tried to explain that despite only having two acclaimed games and two relative flops, Banjo & Kazooie are iconic video game characters. You see more requests for them than you do for more than half the characters on the list, and they managed to become an internet phenomenon because of a tweet. There are obvious connotations to this, given Phil Spencer's position in Microsoft, but it's no less interesting.

Banjo & Kazooie are the essential mascots of Rare's golden age. Rare being a company who made games that drove alot of people's gaming childhoods. Don't forget, they created Goldeneye, who's main protagonist, depsite being a 4th party character, became a legitimate top request for Melee. Goldeneye was often heralded as THE ultimate multiplayer game back in the N64's hayday, and B&K's popularity after their game launched has always been present in some form, unlike some other platformer mascots of the time. They're extremely recognizable, even if you haven't played their games. (Hence, iconic). Remember how much of a storm a new Banjo game made? (Before we knew it was Nuts and Bolts...) And how many sites often hypothesize about Nintendo getting them back? Rare had a HUGE impact ont he industry, and Banjo would both represent his own series AND Rare as a company from back then, I presume.)

I'm not saying they're likely or anything, but it's important not to underestimate their iconic status.

I pretty much agree with all of those. I don't expect half of them have a chance in Smash, but it's important to note.

Man, Cloud sure was a game changer.
 
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Opossum

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ITT: People ignoring @Scoliosis Jones' name. :p

But yeah, for the most part I'd say it's a good list of icons, even if I am a bit shaky on some of their status as icons (namely Banjo and possibly Marcus...I know Gears of War is huge, but it's a matter of how huge :p) and the lack of Samus.

Speaking of that though, a Tetris DLC stage would be amazing.
 

Ura

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@Scoliosis Jones' list of recognizable gaming icons from several months ago is eerily relevant now after Cloud(who is also on this list).

Around half of these could be safely omitted Smash-wise for a variety of reasons, but even with those out you still maintain a decent selection.
I remember thinking to myself when I read that post that Cloud had no chance of getting in to Smash Bros. Was I ever wrong.

As for who I would want from that list, I would want Crash, Banjo, Snake, Heihachi, or Scorpion (preferably all 5 if I had it my way)

- Crash because his series sold twice as much as the Rayman series (who everyone keeps bringing up as a viable DLC candidate) so Crash would be much better than the later IMO (even more so now that he's not Sony exclusive). Also loved Twinsanity on the PS2 back in the day.

- Banjo because of how important he was in the N64 era and that he's a beloved character by many. Loved both N64 Banjo titles as a kid and even now.

- Snake for obvious reasons. Him being in Brawl got me in to MG.

- Heihachi because Tekken is one of my favorite fighting game series alongside Smash. I would have had him over Ryu personally though I understand why Ryu getting in over Heihachi is justified.

- Scorpion (or Sub-Zero) because I love MK and that he's one of the most iconic fighting game characters. There's ways to get around the blood and gore of MK.

Out of the 5 characters I mentioned, I think Crash has the best chance to be another Cloud type of character. His game series sold incredibly well (even outselling Mario in some cases) and is no longer exclusive to a rival company like Banjo is not to mention he would be incredibly hype as a newcomer. Hehiachi would be my second pick. Some people might not like that based on Ryu already being in the game but I know I would love it. There's ways to make the 2 play a lot different.

Honorable Mention goes to Bomberman. Played the N64 game and it was pretty fun.
 

roymustang1990-

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can't we pretend shulk and cloud are isaac.

...lol

..can't we pretend that airplanes in the night sky are shooting stars
I don't know man.

Can't we just pretend that Goku's chances of being in smash are much higher now ever since ryu...er I mean cloud was announced? :p
 
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