Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Big-Cat]

Pokemon Trainer needs to come back, reworked.
I have several ideas on how this could be done.

My newest idea is that he would be an evolving moveset character (pun intended). First, he must capture an opponent- every new life, he would need to first manage to 'catch' the opponent/s. After doing so, and up to three characters, he would them be able to summon their classic sprites. The classic sprites would minimize the technical occupancy for even the 3Ds, and it would also capitalize on the nostalgia of old Nintendo fans.

An old idea I had was that he would have a moveset wherein his Pokeball is the main weapon, being able to capture and stall opponents, making him a strategy based trap character.

Of course, he could also have a summoners moveset, just being a classic summoner, with different Pokemon which have base attacks (not controllable) allotting him different strategic setups. To make him even more interesting, the number of summons he is alotted at a time could be based on the number of other characters he is fighting. If there are two opponents, he gets two summons. One, then only one at a time. It could cap at three or any needed amount.
This could even me mixed into the other concepts above.

Pokefloats helped represent the series very well, also, giving the idea of "catching them all" a whole new meaning.

This doesn't sound very fun at all.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Hey did you guys hear that Oni guy got his account deleted? Shame. Wonder what he did.

"

Where did you find out? :0

 

[Cutie Gwen]

imo Captain Toad would be the only way Toad would be interesting

 

[ShadyClash]

imo Captain Toad would be the only way Toad would be interesting

Or ungodly over powered like Toadsworth.

Jeez Toadsworth.

Come on man.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

I apologize in advanced if this has already been discussed (haven't been following this thread for a bit).

I have a few questions for you guys regarding vets.

1. Would you want their moveset completely reworked, somewhat, or not at all?
2. If you answered yes to #1, which vet, and how would you like to see their moveset reworked if at all?
3. Where do you see them being on the tier list? (consider smash 4 mechanics)
4. What stages would you like to see come with them?

1. Not really.

2. is the only remaining veteran/character I desire, though I haven't played Brawl in years so I don't remember how he felt to play, if it doesn't already I'd probably make his side+B have a meteor effect on it if I had to choose something. Seems fitting imo.

3. Worst-case scenario I see him being C-tier, best-case scenario probably high B maybe even A, realistically probably low/mid B. I say this because it seems like the Smash 4 balance team is trying to squeeze everyone into B-tier at least.

4. None, I'm satisfied with the Starfox stages at the moment and I think other series/characters are far more deserving of another stage.

 

[A Distant Demon]

imo Captain Toad would be the only way Toad would be interesting

Toad with Captain Toad alt with moves from Captain Toad.

Seems like a perfect outcome to me.
Well. . ."perfect" would include toadette and toadsworth als but that is besides the point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Where did you find out? :0

Oni had his name changed to Zebei

Toad with Captain Toad alt with moves from Captain Toad.

Seems like a perfect outcome to me.
Well. . ."perfect" would include toadette and toadsworth als but that is besides the point.

It's primarily the moveset, I don't find regular Toads as potential, not to mention I personally prefer individuals instead of species

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I would be fine with either Toad or Captain Toad. I slightly prefer the Captain, though.

But Toadsworth would be even better.

Hey did you guys hear that Oni guy got his account deleted? Shame. Wonder what he did.

His account got hacked by someone called Zebei.

 

[Burruni]

Gotta agree that a sourspot, personally, with Toad. Captain or otherwise, is in the movepool. It may be because largely what I've seen from fans designing movesets lends a fair amount from power-ups from the New Super games that aren't part of the movesets for the Mario Bros. themselves. Ice Flowers, Propeller Shrooms, etc.

Captain Toad HELPED remedy this issue. ButI still feel like he doesn't quite have enough to properly stand by himself yet. Which is one the things I will stand firm as a difference between him and Bandana Dee, in spite of the comparisons people may make. Part because the identity of a spear user lends itself to more that's within the realm of what B. Dee has used and part because the Dee kind has used a WIDE arsenal of tools and attacks across the series. Part also is just bias.

 

[Arcadenik]

1. Not really.

2. is the only remaining veteran/character I desire, though I haven't played Brawl in years so I don't remember how he felt to play, if it doesn't already I'd probably make his side+B have a meteor effect on it if I had to choose something. Seems fitting imo.

3. Worst-case scenario I see him being C-tier, best-case scenario probably high B maybe even A, realistically probably low/mid B. I say this because it seems like the Smash 4 balance team is trying to squeeze everyone into B-tier at least.

4. None, I'm satisfied with the Starfox stages at the moment and I think other series/characters are far more deserving of another stage.

His side+B does have a meteor smash effect at the end... and I didn't play Brawl since 2013.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Oni had his name changed to Zebei

Oh...damn

He got me good there xD I was about to say.... >_>


Moving on....

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yo, Impa would be awesome if her attacks were mostly based on Hyrule Warriors. Her moveset pool is so big, it's almost makes too much sense for Smash Bros.

This pleases me greatly. Beforehands, Impa support was heavily frowned upon. Me and a couple others where the only active Impa fanbase, but Hyrule Warriors really made people want her a lot more. I'd also love Hyrule Warriors' Impa (despite never playing the game- don't even own a Wii U) but with Cloud also joining the fray, I don't really see it happening all that soon, unfortunately. I do however think Impa is a logical pick, and if we're getting more semi-clone DLC characters, Impa and Dixie Kong probably stand the biggest chances aside of course Wolf. DKC and Zelda are great series, and still running, but haven't had a new character in a long time (both had their last newcomer in Brawl; Diddy and Toon Link) despite the series' great diversity in a cast of many fan-favorites.

Still hoping that if nothing else, I can except Impa and Dixie Kong in Smash 5. Because honestly, as far as Nintendo newcomers go that I feel that NEED to be represented, I can only think of ; King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Impa, Wolf, Isaac, Inkling, Bandana Dee, Toad and errr, that's about it. They could probably surprise us with something awesome and unexpected, like say, Blastoise or God-forbidden Ridley, but that's really just about it. And of course, we get something new from Pokémon and Fire Emblem because that's just the way it has always been.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Adam would be a great joke character. There is no denying that.

No.

Anthony Higgs is the only LEGIT joke choice character from Metroid.

Cause unlike Adam, Anthony was everything that was actually awesome about Other M. If you think about good parts of Other M, you think of Anthony.

Otherwise, you simply lack style.

 

[Mobes]

On the topic of Mii Fighters, it feels pretty clear that most people don't really care about them. There's even hostility when a certain character that has been wished to be a full-fetched fighter appears as a Mii Fighter costume.. Like, with K Rool.

But, like, that can't be the intended way for that to go down, right? I never myself got the vibes from the devs (not directly, but via the game and marketing) that costumes were meant as a replacement or anything. I know Smash fans are prune to be emotional about it, but..

 

[Arcadenik]

On the topic of Mii Fighters, it feels pretty clear that most people don't really care about them. There's even hostility when a certain character that has been wished to be a full-fetched fighter appears as a Mii Fighter costume.. Like, with K Rool.

But, like, that can't be the intended way for that to go down, right? I never myself got the vibes from the devs (not directly, but via the game and marketing) that costumes were meant as a replacement or anything. I know Smash fans are prune to be emotional about it, but..

I think that's the point of Mii Fighters... I think Sakurai even admitted this but I'm not exactly sure.

We also got popular characters who were requested but they only got in as costumes.

Black Knight
Chocobo
Chrom
Heihachi (he was even considered at one point)
Inklings
Isabelle
K.K. Slider
King K. Rool (of all Mii costumes, why is it that this one gets so much hostility?)
Lloyd Irving
Mega Man X
Proto Man
Toad
Viridi
Zero

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

 

[Zerp]

King K. Rool (of all Mii costumes, why is it that this one gets so much hostility?)

The reason lots of people are mad about it is that some of us took the Mii costumes to be like some sort of "compensation prize". For K. Rool, many people feel like that implies he never made it and won't be getting in, it's not like they don't want their character to be recognized, they want their character to be more than a 'mere' mii costume. Basically, they see the costume as a legitimate threat to his chances and they don't like that.
(I'd also like to note that this is not how I feel about Mii costumes, just trying to convey what I think the general public and K. Rool's fanbase in general sees them as.)

 

[pupNapoleon]

This doesn't sound very fun at all.

Youre welcome to disagree all you want- we got three characters off of one moveset this game.

I prefer my ideas to that.

Or to just general ********. But then again, that's the way of the internet, so way to go.

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

Woulda been a lot nicer if they had more variety in move possibilities. If everyone else gets 12 custom moves, they should at least get 16.

But, no. Just generic ****. Super generic.
Nice if we could choose different themes for the moves to- same effects, but different visuals. That could make them stand out.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

Considering they got three different movesets with all of them being bland I do feel they are by far the worst implemented newcomer character. And it's not as if they were quick bonus alts-turned costumes.

 

[Burruni]

Personally, I would've really prefered if Miis had a moveset that was about utilizing the hardware of Nintendo has released over the years in various ways and, in a means, poking at themselves.

For example: "Accidentally" checking a wii mote & nunchuck as a side B. A pilot wings-styled helipack powered by an N64 controller and the mii's hand would "overheat" after winding it up for long enough.

The Final Smash? The Ultimate Windbox move: Blowing into an NES catrdige. You could extend the idea out as a "vortex" that continously does damage while inside of it as it pushes you through. A horizontal version of Lugia's attack

I feel like, with that basis, you could still have a few variants of its height and weight to be compatable with people's designs for their Miis in some customization.

Edit: Okay. I officially have faith in Paper Jam.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

Am happy someone here has seen the truth. Honestly, even Dark Pit is better. Am not even speaking ironically.

 

[ShadyClash]

The Mii Fighters laugh at us as they drink our tears and try on outfits from the wardrobe of SKINNED DREAMS.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Mii Fighters honestly aren't the worst newcomer in Smash 4, really; more accurate statement is that they're the most dissapointing newcomer in Smash 4.

They had so much potential for moves and they were just sort of shoved into being generic Make-A-Fighters. Part of it is the poor implementation of custom moves in the first place, but generally forcing people's Make-A-Fighter into four slots with three moves each is laughable for creativity.

Honestly, if they had a system more like a wrestling game, where you could make everything about a fighter as long as it's within the game's bounds and share it online, I think custom fighters would have been a much more interesting feature, especially with the advent of sharing them online. As it is, it's basically just the dev team giving out mods as part of the base game.

 

[SonicMario]

Eh, I like the Mii Fighters personally. Especially the Brawler.

And it really made no sense whatsoever to not have Miis when they had the Wii Fit Trainer in there as one of the first newcomers. When WFT was announced, it was an inevitability that Miis were going to be playable in some form. Cause what sense is having a character that you can mostly ignore in Wii Fit (If you never do the Strength Training/Yoga stuff) but not use the actual playable characters in Wii Fit and the other Wii games that whether we like them or not. Is one of the best selling series of all time?

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Considering they got three different movesets with all of them being bland I do feel they are by far the worst implemented newcomer character. And it's not as if they were quick bonus alts-turned costumes.

I get that they're generic but if anything that just makes them more of the blank slate they were intended to be. And Sakurai did say that the main reason they're here is to put characters in Smash that have no chance of getting in. (like Goku)

 

[Burruni]

Eh, I like the Mii Fighters personally. Especially the Brawler.

And it really made no sense whatsoever to not have Miis when they had the Wii Fit Trainer in there as one of the first newcomers. When WFT was announced, it was an inevitability that Miis were going to be playable in some form. Cause what sense is having a character that you can mostly ignore in Wii Fit (If you never do the Strength Training/Yoga stuff) but not use the actual playable characters in Wii Fit and the other Wii games that whether we like them or not. Is one of the best selling series of all time?

The spoken issues here isn't "wtf why did they put in Miis," it is moreso "The Miis had more to offer as fighters than a very limited implimentation of the 'build-a-fighter' idea."

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

Agreed. I don't like Dark Pit either, but he barely took any development time, unlike the Miis (three separate characters, so they might have taken more development time than any other character). And I admit, the K. Rool costume made me like them even less.

 

[NintenZ]

I know that this was settled hours ago... But I can't ignore it...

Custom Robo and Golden Sun have zero fighters. That's my point. Three Kirby fighters is more than enough, after that it's just adding characters for the sake of adding. Sakurai even mentioned something like this in an interview, that "there would be no end to it"

Uh no, that was Sakurai on characters that have no importance to their respective franchises, in which he listed a generic Waddle Dee, Baby Peach, and Dry Bones. Bandana Dee is very important to his franchise, and has proved that he's not just your typical filler player-4 character. In other words, there's more then meets the eye.

Adam would even be a terrible joke character, slap in the face and waste of a spot, at least people liked Jigglypuff and Pichu


You did the same thing, so why should I believe you as well? I can guarantee you I have been playing Zelda longer than you have been born, don't get an attitude


And we're done here


Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch, Koopalings in the Clown Car, Villager, Ice Climbers, ROB, Jigglypuff and Duck Hunt are all characters had little to no demand but still got in the game

Palutena, Shulk, Robin, Pokemon Trainer, Pit (prior to Brawl), Lucas, Wolf, Ike, Zero Suit Samus and pretty much most of the clones in there series are all characters who had somewhat of a demand but nothing major and still got in the game

If "highly demanded" meant anything we would have K Rool and the rest of the most popular newcomers already. At this point, demand means nothing because there isn't any character who stands out among the rest by any large margin. If you think Waddle Dee is more in demand than Issac, you are totally wrong

@Morbi isn't wrong at all actually...

In fact, you're only being biased and basing things off of what you think, so if you're going to act like that, I suggest you leave.
(And about when you said Xenoblade doesn't need another character...

I disagree in that area too)

Except there's been like, no major new additions to Kirby since Sakurai left except Waddle Dee who's...a Waddle Dee.
If does need some new stages, but I think it's fine on characters.

Calling Bandana Dee just another waddle dee is kinda discrediting the multiple playable roles he's had in the series, especially Rainbow Paintbrush where Meta Knight was absent almost completely. There's also Return to Dreamland where he appeared as one of the main 4 characters and continued to do so in plenty of Kirby promotional material and then Triple Deluxe where he shows up multiple times throughout the game, once again when Meta Knight is nowhere to be seen. Not to mention that he's a popular character with a unique weapon.

Bandana Waddle Dee was actually made by Sakurai . Also, regardless of whether or not he's a waddle dee he's the fourth main character now, he's pretty darn respectable and I'd argue deserving.

Dark Matter however, while made during his era, wasn't actually made by Sakurai, and is the series's secondary antagonist, He's the final boss directly for three games which all are part of a over-arching trilogy name focusing on the character, and is heavily implied to be directly related to, Dark Crafter, the Master Crown, and Dark Mind. Then you've got Galacta Knight, who's a recurring post-game boss with some ballot support, then Magolor another recurring character, who happens to be

Spoiler: RTDL SPOILERS

the main antagonist of his game and the spiritual successor to Marx,

who's also got some ballot support, has a developed character ,and has multiple cameo appearances that may or may not building him up. I'd say those are some pretty major additions.

Basically these.
Also I remember you saying BDee would be too similar to Marth, but that's not entirely the case as there's a key difference. While there is a similarity in their tipper, Marth's weapon is oriented in close-range combat, while BDee's is oriented in long-range combat, so there's a large difference.

 

[Aetheri]

One thing that bothers me is how much emphasis we are getting on the Mii's for DLC....I mean most of the DLC we have recieved so far are Mii Costumes and Mii hats...

Of course some of the costumes added were pretty cool like the Black Knight and Majora's Mask (and the inevitable Midna's Fused Shadow), but at the same time it's kinda lackluster...sure they are easy to make, but I think we'd rather have one or two extra stages with teh time they put into making these extra Mii costumes on character not many people are using to begin with (really doesn't help you can't use them in online play either, those of us who basically spend all of our time on For Glory, literally never use Mii's)

 

[-crump-]

I never wanted Miis in the first place (they are generic and boring by pure nature, imo) , so the fact that the dev team is spending so much time on costumes for them is kind of upsetting to me. I just personally don't like the idea of Miis in Smash in general, so I find it hard to appreciate my most-wanted characters getting skinned and plastered onto their soulless bodies.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I get that they're generic but if anything that just makes them more of the blank slate they were intended to be.

Regardlesss, that just makes them look really boring especially in comparison to the really unique newcomer characters we have gotten like

 

[Bedoop]

I honestly think the Miis could've been done better
Mainly because instead of staying true to their performances from the Wii Games, Spin-offs and what have you (The "Wii _____" line of games, Nintendo Land, Face Raiders and Mario Kart Wii/7/8 are notable ones, especially Nintendo Land, das a good game) they just sorta made the Miis pull a Sonic and have almost everything be ripped from some other character in some way with your face slapped on it
It'd be nicer if we got a Wii/Wii U/3DS Hardware-inspired Moveset (Wiimote + Nunchuk, Wii Zapper, Gamepad, 3D Shenanigans and what have you) in my opinion
Also, less costumes please
90% of DLC is just costumes, but you can only use them Online With Friends on the 3DS Version and only With Friends and certain tournaments in Tourney Mode on Wii U (Would be wonderful if you could use them on For Fun/Glory. And before you say "but no bullying tho", they made in-game nicknames visible for Smash U and people have done enough bullying mayhem and Sakurai's letting that slide) and the costumes you do get are reaaaally tedious to unlock (Mii Hats. That is all.)
I dunno.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So this is where people discuss DLC now?

Eh... I don't think I'll post here as much.

 

[A Distant Demon]

All this talk about miis.

But easily the biggest problem with them after allllll that work. They can't even be used online. Easily one of the worst choices.

Mii costumes are actually the only thing i loke about them. Viridi and Chrom have no chance so this is the best i get >_>

 

[Bedoop]

I apologize in advanced if this has already been discussed (haven't been following this thread for a bit).

I have a few questions for you guys regarding vets.

1. Would you want their moveset completely reworked, somewhat, or not at all?
2. If you answered yes to #1, which vet, and how would you like to see their moveset reworked if at all?
3. Where do you see them being on the tier list? (consider smash 4 mechanics)
4. What stages would you like to see come with them?

1) Sure
2) PICHU PICHU
3) Probably near Game & Watch, low-mid
4) Pokefloats is da bess

They can't even be used online.

They can kinda be used with Friends and on Wii U's Tourney Mode
But 3DS is kinda in the dark
And since I use 3DS 99% of the time
Sad, Sad Day.

 

[Dinoman96]

All this talk about miis.

But easily the biggest problem with them after allllll that work. They can't even be used online. Easily one of the worst choices.

Mii costumes are actually the only thing i loke about them. Viridi and Chrom have no chance so this is the best i get >_>

Just for the record, they can be used online - in Tourney Mode.

Honestly, I feel basically everything done with custom moves in this game was just so bizarre and mishandled. They were supposed to be this game's next biggest thing and yet now no one bothers with them. And honestly at this point I can hardly blame them.

They can't be used in With Anyone, they're extremely difficult to unlock, some of them are hugely unbalanced (Timber Counter anyone?), etc. Quite frankly the only reason I care about them at all is the fact that Palutena really needs them. Having fully unique custom specials was supposed to be Palutena's selling point...which was quite frankly also poorly thought out considering that once again she can't use her them in For Glory and now actual tournaments prohibit the usage of them. And if you're playing with a group of friends that never turn customs on, WELP. At least Miis can still use their moves even when customs are off. Now Palutena is doomed to be stuck in low tier with a crappy and generic default moveset for the rest of her days.

EDIT: I do like Mii Brawler though. I'd play as him more if I could, particularly with Helicopter Kick on.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

Mii Fighters were by far the worst newcomers in Smaash 4 imo

I think that honor has to go to Dark Pit and Lucina.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I think that honor has to go to Dark Pit and Lucina.

No, Dark Pit and Lucina, as eyebrow-raising as they are, are just poorly-executed clone characters.

The Mii Fighters had so much potential, but almost all of it got squandered because of not only other creative decisions, but the fact that they were basically just a good excuse for people to make their dumb original characters, Goku or Shrek Smash fighters. They have no really creative purpose, they are by all means the most generic and dull characters ever put into Smash.

They could have been really neat if done properly, but instead it's basically like controling 3 blank slate archetypes.

 

[Burruni]

I think that honor has to go to Dark Pit and Lucina.

They, at least, took little to no time and effort to devolop as fighters.

Mii Fighters are the lowest point on a scale judging "development vs uniqueness," by virtue of the amount of work put on them, including the DOZENS of mii costumes; none of which you can use in the standard online mode edit: while squandering a LOT of material that they had at hand. Lucina, even in her main game, was similar to Marth utilizing more of her Father's combat style and Dark Pit was literally the same to play as.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I hate the mii fighters, too, but I still look at them as unique characters, as bad as they are. Lucina and Dark Pit don't bring anything to the game. They're better off as costumes.