General Ness discussion

[legion598]

if i get hit extremely high in the air i stall with down Bs and sometimes even use my second jump and continue the stall just to piss ppl off. Furthermore, juggling floaties with PK thunders for ridiculous amounts of time can cause greater amounts of frustration, and damage. You want to give your opponent the feeling that youre surviving for long amounts of time by drawing out all of your recoveries and DI scenarios to bore them. Kind of like how samus bores ppl to death. lol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

all of that sounds terrible

 

[ChivalRuse]

So I think I'm finally starting to understand why nair is so good.

Nair out of shield is amazing. Great hitbox in front and behind. ^_^

 

[Massive]

PK thunder chasing on floaties is demoralizing. It was their own fault they picked peach though.
I wholeheartedly endorse it.

 

[Jono]

PK thunder chasing on floaties is demoralizing. It was their own fault they picked peach though.
I wholeheartedly endorse it.

hi5 ^________^

 

[toasty]

yesss @ PKT chasing...great for follow-ups against Ganon's fat *** ^_^

and Chival: FINALLY you see the light =D

like bair/weak bair, it's also a great edgeguard against characters who have limited recovery options [Falcon] because the hitbox stays out for a while and the cooldown is beyond low

 

[Jono]

nair out of shield reminds me of shines

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how does it do that in any way

 

[Jono]

how does it do that in any way

it doesn't, just the speed of it

don't have access to ssbm atm
how fast can you do:
nair -> dtilt -> nair -> repeat

on a shield?

 

[thesage]

Not fast enough that you can't get grabbed. It could be a good mixup game though. IDK. I'm very bad at doing that with Ness. I just spam d-tilt.

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

I know it sounds silly, but I sometimes approach with wd-dtilt spam, especially if my opponent is at high %. It can't be shield-grabbed, and the ending lag on a dtilt is very small, so when they escape, I can fsmash or wd-back fsmash.

 

[thesage]

It can be shield grabbed.

 

[Uffe]

What I've learned while fighting a live Fox. CPU tested, player approved. No, really, I tried it on an evading CPU and then a real player.

SHFFL nair times X - Good to use at lower percent. Is it practical? I haven't any idea. I guess as long as your opponent doesn't tech, you're good to use it.

SHFFL dair > grab > u-throw/d-throw > DJC times X - The SHFFL dair to grab works at low percent. You can easily grab your opponent and finish off the combo without the dair, though it looks flashier with it. If you use the u-throw, your opponent will probably DI either left or right. If you use the d-throw, your opponent will probably try to DI away from the direction you're facing. To pull this one off, you'd have to quickly dash towards them and DJC right away, but in a timely manner.

Grab > u-throw > JC grab times X - I think you can chain grab Fox four times. Or at least up until he's around 30 to 40 percent. I read this works on Falco as well. The only difficulty behind this is JCing properly (darn your short stubby arms! D; ) and reading your opponents DI.

D-tilt - Good if your opponent is near you and likes to crouch cancel a lot. The problem against Fox is that he can just d-tilt you back. So to deal with this, if you see him attempting it, then roll away or something like that.

Nair - Works on Fire Fox (not the web browser) and his Illusion Phantasm BS, as well as his u-tilt shenanigans and other stuff. It's a great attack. Just be sure to space yourself well enough with it or you'll get hurt too.

 

[Deleted member]

It can be shield grabbed.

are you home for break? I'm at chu's for break, we should play.

 

[thesage]

I'm coming up next week. That's when my break is.

 

[toasty]

Uffe..I admire the spirit...I do. But sadly, you said so much that made my head explode that...well, lemme just single one part out (I'm not trying to be mean, it's just clear that you're not playing against very good players)

The problem against Fox is that he can just d-tilt you back. So to deal with this, if you see him attempting it, then roll away or something like that.

there are infinitely worse things Fox can do to you in this situation than dtilt...like usmash. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as what was incorrect in your post.

Again, I'm not trying to be an ***..you should see my first posts on the Ness boards from back in the day. I wrote a 3 paragraph post that broke down the psychology behind and situational nature of being able to charge a dsmash, hit a running Fox with the front part, into an fsmash for a kill.

>_>

 

[#HBC | Mac]

man i made a whole topic full of **** that was so scrubby

i calleed djcffling ESHing (extreme short hopping)

 

[thesage]

Please, don't even make me talk about my earlier posts...

Hey guys remember when the Ness boards thought pkt was the best move ever? lol

The guide we have at the top is a remnant of that. I still need to finish my part lol. More like rewrite...

You guys really think pkt juggling works on all floaties? Usually I just get one pkt in on Peach or Jiggs. And if you miss the pkt on Jiggs = rest. I can get it on Samus and Luigi, but that's it. Zelda and Mewtwo can teleport out of it. Who else could it work on?

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

DTilt spam can be shield-grabbed?

 

[Jono]

DTilt spam can be shield-grabbed?

Right as the dtilt gets out of range, you can grab Ness with many characters
otherwise maybe i'm just bad

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it doesnt work too well because they can airdodge through the pkt, but usually im able to get one off because they dont expect it.

I also usually just do it to put them in a bad situation. Sometimes theyre in stun and you can tech chase them when they land. Sometimes they double jump trying to avoid it and they get hit anyways. So it's easier to predict where theyll land and punish now. Sometimes I do it and they get hit, and there in a spot where I can bait a double jump and hit them with uair.

 

[Jono]

tailwhipping or attempting to tailwhip is almost a must against airdodgers, but jiggs is the hardest to hit pkt with

pkt is generally a pretty cool move

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

Right as the dtilt gets out of range, you can grab Ness with many characters
otherwise maybe i'm just bad

I see. If you have good timing though, I don't see why you couldn't just side tilt as son as they're out of your dtilt range. DTilt's lag can be canceled into any other tilt pretty darn quick.

 

[ChivalRuse]

For some reason, I just feel like it would be funny to punish a Marth's f-smash with PKT1 out of shield.

 

[Massive]

For some reason, I just feel like it would be funny to punish a Marth's f-smash with PKT1 out of shield.

I used to do this a lot when I was substantially scrubbier.

There are some times where he'll hit you into your own PK thunder's tail and it will cancel your momentum. I've survived 3 or 4 tippered fsmashes at 150% because of fluke PK thunders.

I remember an ancient thread in these very forums outlining this behavior actually...

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yea its pretty basic

 

[legion598]

trainin hard. gonna rep our boy ness at the next tourney I go to.

Im messing around with DJCing Bairs fast enough that the actual hitbox doesnt come out and theres no lag afterward so I can like do some kind of empty Bair and cancel into mind games it seems like its gonna be a pretty nifty mix-up. Tried it out in some friendlies and I managed to do the described trick and grab them out of their shield, also managed to follow the empty bair with a Fsmash which basically allowed me to effectively shield pressure with a Fsmash. **** was cash

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm starting to feel like f-tilt, fair, and grab are the only options that Ness has in neutral.

Tomahawk f-smash is cool too I guess.

And I suppose dash attack at certain ranges or to catch runners away.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Hey guys remember when the Ness boards thought pkt was the best move ever? lol

It is. O_O

 

[ChivalRuse]

Where you at, Simna?

 

[legion598]

I think Bair is ness best move. It is like the best spacing ever. But PKT really is ness's best move if ur on Pokemon stadium or brinstar lol it becomes TFG thunder on those stages. I reeeeaaallllyyy wish corneria was still legal.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I'm still in norcal. Currently a smash hobo that cant afford to go to any tournaments or any smash anythings for that matter that has to sit at home and ask other smashers to come over to my place to smash, but they won't because they know I play Ness and who wants to fight a Ness mirite?

^why I havent played Melee in 1735 years^

 

[Roche_CL]

ness Rapez!

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love playing Ness. I need to hit training mode with him more though. I've been pretty preoccupied with YL lately.

 

[toasty]

Hey everyone, I don't remember if I've talked with y'all about this but I wanted to know if we should discuss it here or if I should make a new thread....but I wanted y'all's input because y'all are some of the few who know what the deal is with Ness =3 (btw SUP SIMNA YOOOOOOOOO)

At Pound 5, someone was watching my Ness in some friendlies...sat nearby, and then asked what I'm sure collectively is our favorite question: what makes Ness so bad?
"Hmm...that's kind of a big question."
So I gave him a few bullet points...but he said he wanted to know more because:
He's working on Project:Melee and Ness is the character he's working on improving.

So I wrote him a 4 page essay on why Ness is terrible, and still feel like I missed some things =/
I also detailed what thing should/could be improved.

I recently got to play some secret version of Project:M and while I didn't actually play that version of Ness, Project:M Backroom members were watching on the stream, sent my friend [the guy who owns smashmods.com, which hosts the game's news/downloads] a "test bed Ness" for us to try out.

(remember, this isn't the current P:M version, it's a test version that they wanted me to try out)
- He has the OPTION to DJC
- I only played him a couple times but from what I can gather, little-to-no landing lag from aerial PKF
- PKT either has a tighter turning radius [if so, not by much] or it's faster
- N64 DAIR (weird as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu to get used to!)
- from what I could tell, no swing jumping. you just fall instantly when DJCing
- usmash/dsmash do damage/knockback that's actually worth mentioning, and charging it holds the opponent in place [haven't messed with him enough to give any more details on DIing out or anything =/]
- PKFlash is FAAAAAST!!! It seems identical in both speed and range(!!!!!) to Lucas's PKFreeze in Brawl. And yes, it has the same incredible killing power.

Anyway...thoughts, ideas, criticisms etc are all welcomed

I think it's pretty beast that we can have a direct impact on what a character becomes =D

 

[ChivalRuse]

I hate P:M. Melee Ness all day.

 

[toasty]

Hahaha truth...I honestly wouldn't even play Ness in P:M...Lucas is the homie and so so sooo much fun...

And why the P:M hate? It's actually incredibly fun ^_^
(I'm actually asking, though, why?)

 

[ChivalRuse]

Landing detection ... recovery/DI differences ... stupid stuff about buffering rolls that makes you go the OPPOSITE direction of your input ... the combo engine being vastly different ... not having the lightshield/shieldstab metagame. Random stuff like that.

 

[toasty]

yeah landing detection is a pain but you get used to it, plus they're still working on it. it's only the demo.

DI is still being worked on...buffering rolls? haven't experienced that at all

LOL it's not supposed to be just like Melee or anything. If anything it serves as a decent follow up, at least. Plus a lot of characters are being improved so that everyone is considerably more viable than they were before...*shrugs*

still a work in progress, of course

but you've got some valid points

 

[Sinji]

I like Ness's double jump cancel aerial.