Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[BBC7]

Metal Blades are still fair game against G&W, right? It's not energy-based

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Metal Blades are still fair game against G&W, right? It's not energy-based

Yep. Metal Blades work just fine.

 

[ChopperDave]

It's not really the end of the world if G&W buckets three of your lemons, as he's only going to do ~16 damage and negligible knock back if he hits you with it. It's not any worse than getting hit by one of his aerials, dash attacks, or smash attacks.

In fact, I usually operate by the same principle here as I do our Villager MU: use lemons constantly, because it's better that they pocket/bucket those than any of our other attacks. If G&W fills his bucket with lemons then you no longer have to worry about him absorbing your fsmash until he empties it.

 

[fromundaman]

It's not really the end of the world if G&W buckets three of your lemons, as he's only going to do ~16 damage and negligible knock back if he hits you with it. It's not any worse than getting hit by one of his aerials, dash attacks, or smash attacks.

In fact, I usually operate by the same principle here as I do our Villager MU: use lemons constantly, because it's better that they pocket/bucket those than any of our other attacks. If G&W fills his bucket with lemons then you no longer have to worry about him absorbing your fsmash until he empties it.

That's pretty much how I approach this MU too, especially since he tends to beat out most of our non-projectile moves with his disjoints.

Also bucket has a lot of ending lag, and you can actually punish him for bucketing lemons or whiffing a bucket.

 

[Fenrir VII]

On a hunch, I just confirmed that Ness can also absorb the explosion after being stuck with a crash bomb to get health.

Thing is... He only gets 2% from it so no sweat. Lol

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Fought a Pikmin user last night. I never realized how much trouble those little guys could cause. Lost three matches in a row.

 

[Jackaraia]

Sooooooo. Spent a good hour last night playing against a Zelda person who only used three attacks. Up B, Side B, and Neutral B.

I tried all the different spacings, attacks and methods of trying to get damage on, but because she can Neutral B almost immediately right out of her Up B if shes on the ground, it was almost impossible for me to get a hit in. (Now, if you get her in hitstun, you can chain pretty hard and make back all the damage.) But it's something to watch out for. The only move I could hit her in during Nayru's Love was flame sword, and even then, I had to time it at the very end of her reflective shield animation and with the very tip of the flames. Nothing else, could hit her, and since the shield is still active the whole animation (Even though it disappeared it was still reflecting blades, crashbombs and buster shots until she was standing upright again) there was no way to snipe her with any of the projectiles to open up for combos.

Basically it was Up B around the stage, and the Neutral B to do a few ticks of damage and then Up B around the stage trying to get lucky with Smash 4's auto targeting with her ribbon on exiting Up B. Side B was easy to dodge since she only used it when I was off stage, but it was still the toughest match up I've played to date.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Just bait the neutral b. You can hit it with anything during cooldown.

I've played some really annoying zeldas, but once you get the hang of it, I think it's an ok matchup for us

 

[Beard Hawk]

I main Samus. Sometimes I come across a Megaman who tries to beat me at the long range projectile game, it doesn't last long. Super Missiles go right over one of Megaman's ones, and Charge shot eats everything.
I feel like I'm betraying Samus mains by disclosing all this, but you guys are probably all aware of it anyway: In that mid-range where Megaman's fsmash and lemongun work, I think he rinses Samus pretty badly. Samus players have the airgrapple, which would help keep him away, but he's so short that he's hard to hit.
When I've been launched upwards and am trying to return to earth, Megaman actually has the advantage over Samus as well. His down or up smash has higher priority than any of Samus' landing moves (like dair).
This matchup is very dependent on positioning and faking each other out. It has the potential for some very boring, long-winded games. I do kinda dread it every time I see a Megaman, partly because his projectiles reload so fast, and partly because the match has the potential to take forever.

 

[Nu~]

Ironically, this guy

When I'm on the other end of this matchup, I laugh at the easiness of it, but when I'm using megaman, it feels like hell. All of Pac-Man's fruit absorb megaman's projectiles (even our fsmash). His air game is far superior with more speed, and a brawl meta knight-like nair He can gimp us really badly with his orange, nair, and fair which push us out too far to recover from, while he can just side B back to the stage.
It's even hard to spike him because his trampoline will bounce him back up.
His fruit do come out slower than ours though, and he loses in mid-range without a fruit in range, but he does a great job of keeping us out of there with his long range game of hydrants and fruit. We can destroy his hydrant with one fsmash, but then yiu have to watch out for the trampoline too. He can place it on the stage and force us in the air where he dominates.

It's not unwinnable, but definitely not in megaman's favor. I say 35:65 in the pac's favor

 

[Greward]

after some time playing against rosalina i don't think MM can beat her with customs ON. rosalina's vertical recovery upB is really hard to edgeguard against as mega man and the luma laser is kinda annoying (altho mostly it's her upB, the normal one is hard to edgeguard but doable and a good bair can end her).
IMO it's a hard matchup with customs OFF, and a "i need another char" with customs ON. Won't explain why i feel she wrecks MM i guess it has already been explained in some other post in this thread.
I'd go 1311 or 1331, maybe ice attack is better in this matchup than the bubble but we need the kill move imo. 1111 is good too, as far as downB i think the leaf shield is the best. Skull shield isnt very helpful in this matchup (unless B spammy which she shouldnt) and i prefer leaf shield to flower shield.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

i dont know about u guys but most of the people your posting on who megaman has a hard time with, I usually beat these characters. the hardest one for me thou is i guess Rosalina, but I still beaten a fair amount of them. usually when fighting a rosaluma u need to use the metal blades in order to penetrate the luma and attack rosalina. or use crash bombs so that it explodes on impact with the luma while it does some damage on rosalina

 

[Sleek Media]

Rosalina is Ms Target Practice. Just nuke her. The only danger Gravity Pull poses is the charged Mega Buster. At close range the blast will make contact and damage you as she draws it in. Otherwise fire at will. Even an unsafe top spin will KO any Luma near the edge. Just be smart and use your superior mobility to zone her and punish her inevitable spacing errors.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Not to mention metal blade hitting both Luma and Rosalina, Crash Bomb exploding on contact with Luma, Leaf Shield giving her a lot of issues. I definitely think MM has a lot going for him against her I'm not arguing that, I'm just saying that for the sake of discussing matchups it could be a particularly relevant one to get into because she's kind of looked at as the top tier right now by a lot, whether that turns out to be true or not it's definitely at least starting to be reflected by the few tournies that are starting to happen considering the frequency of Rosalinas I'm at least beginning to see.

There's probably going to be even more to talk about once the Wii U version hits, if the change to her Luma respawn timer ends up coming to pass among other possible changes. Could be really good info too for anyone interested in taking Mega Man to tournies and events, because there's a lot of people crying over Rosalina being "too good" and also a lot of people who are still in the mode of thinking Mega Man is irrelevant in this game...which I bet could result in a whole lot of overconfident Rosalinas going to events while being completely unaware of the MM matchup.

 

[ChopperDave]

I think the trick with Rosalina is to avoid rolling, particularly towards her. Good Rosalina players often use her attacks to pressure you towards the edge, then punish you once you're there. If you roll away from her she can get you with Luma Shot or dash attack, and if you roll or dtilt towards her she can get you with.... a lot of things.

Fortunately, we have some good options for avoiding this trap. Nairing through her will knock her back if she doesn't shield, and if she does shield she won't be able to grab us. We can also just bounce off Rush to get some quick vertical space and go up and over her. Leaf Shield will protect you against her dash attack on the way back down.

Against good Rosalinas I usually just play a game of keep away, nuking her with Crash Bombs and b-reversed Metal Blades and pivot fsmashes and nairs until Luma kicks the bucket or she makes a mistake. Once Luma is gone or Rosalina is offstage, we can give her a very hard time.

 

[Sleek Media]

Seriously, Rosalina is so overrated it isn't even funny. I'm not exactly Mr Elite, but the general attitude on smashboards has me questioning whether anyone here has the half a brain needed to process more than dair dair dair MK strings or chaingrabs.

Just. Don't. Roll. Into. Her. It's not rocket science, and it's not even a danger that is exclusive to Rosalina. We have so many advantages over her in this matchup. Even if she gets under us, we can Leaf Shield and air dodge into her and let the flinch get us out of trouble. She's also super light. Just stack damage, and once she's around 160, bait the dash attack and throw her out. If you get a genuine opening up close (like her rolling into you), you can close the stock at 60-80 with a Mega Upper. You can practically force her to send Luma out because of Crash Bombs and Metal Blades, which you can then shoot up with Hard Knuckle or Mega Buster. As long as you don't start walking and shooting pellets you are very safe.

 

[gameprodigy12]

Seriously, Rosalina is so overrated it isn't even funny. I'm not exactly Mr Elite, but the general attitude on smashboards has me questioning whether anyone here has the half a brain needed to process more than dair dair dair MK strings or chaingrabs.

Just. Don't. Roll. Into. Her. It's not rocket science, and it's not even a danger that is exclusive to Rosalina. We have so many advantages over her in this matchup. Even if she gets under us, we can Leaf Shield and air dodge into her and let the flinch get us out of trouble. She's also super light. Just stack damage, and once she's around 160, bait the dash attack and throw her out. If you get a genuine opening up close (like her rolling into you), you can close the stock at 60-80 with a Mega Upper. You can practically force her to send Luma out because of Crash Bombs and Metal Blades, which you can then shoot up with Hard Knuckle or Mega Buster. As long as you don't start walking and shooting pellets you are very safe.

Rosalina isn't even close to overrated dude.

 

[---]

How much HP does Luma have?


Also would propose that Game & Watch or Bowser be next in discussion. The former because bucket pellets/Crash Bomber, the latter because harder pellet/Leaf Shield game.

 

[Sleek Media]

Luma has exactly 52hp.

I'm actually not too sure against Bowser yet. I've only had about 5 or six matches against a really spectacular one, but he beat me about 35:65, and went about 50:50 with my Mario, who usually covers Mega Man's bad matchups (or at least the ones I haven't learned yet).

This Bowser was so dangerous because he made exceptional use of his entire kit, though not as much against Mega Man. Pellets are not a good option since he can run through them, so our only way to stop a charge is with a metal blade, with can be caught with a dash attack (leaf shield works too but you'll just get pushed around the stage as you set it up). His command grab has really good range, damage, and can reliably KO, meaning we really have to deal with the charge. His fair has better range than ours, and if he reads an air dodge, it's going to hurt a lot. It's also hard to set up mega upper KOs since he beats us very badly at close range. Once he's in the air we can juggle him pretty well, and he is very vulnerable to hard knuckle spikes, but overall you have virtually no room for error. Some Bowsers may try to grab the metal blade and hold onto it. That's actually good for us, since his only grounded options are his specials, which are pretty easy to read without the possibility of a normal. Throw lots of crash bombs but never while he is in range to rush you.

 

[Ramzy]

So far Mega Man dittos are pretty rough.

 

[ChopperDave]

Luma has exactly 52hp.

I'm actually not too sure against Bowser yet. I've only had about 5 or six matches against a really spectacular one, but he beat me about 35:65, and went about 50:50 with my Mario, who usually covers Mega Man's bad matchups (or at least the ones I haven't learned yet).

This Bowser was so dangerous because he made exceptional use of his entire kit, though not as much against Mega Man. Pellets are not a good option since he can run through them, so our only way to stop a charge is with a metal blade, with can be caught with a dash attack (leaf shield works too but you'll just get pushed around the stage as you set it up). His command grab has really good range, damage, and can reliably KO, meaning we really have to deal with the charge. His fair has better range than ours, and if he reads an air dodge, it's going to hurt a lot. It's also hard to set up mega upper KOs since he beats us very badly at close range. Once he's in the air we can juggle him pretty well, and he is very vulnerable to hard knuckle spikes, but overall you have virtually no room for error. Some Bowsers may try to grab the metal blade and hold onto it. That's actually good for us, since his only grounded options are his specials, which are pretty easy to read without the possibility of a normal. Throw lots of crash bombs but never while he is in range to rush you.

Bowser is a rough match-up... maybe even one of our worst. Half of his moveset outprioritizes our bread and butter moves like pellets and Metal Blades. Even when he does get hit by our moves he can just powers through it with his super armor (both innate and on half his attacks). Good Bowsers are very good at getting in my space and pressuring me into throwing out moves that he can either outprioritize or punish using the super armor on his attacks.

I find that the best way to approach this one is to play keep away. Run away, then turn around unpredictably and throw out B-reversed Metal Blades and pivot ftilts and fsmashes. Use sweet spotted nair to ftilt to get through him relatively safely if he corners you, or go up and over with Rush. Do this until he whiffs a laggy move (of which he has a lot) and then punish it hard.

 

[tmonty17]

Bowser is a rough match-up... maybe even one of our worst. Half of his moveset outprioritizes our bread and butter moves like pellets and Metal Blades. Even when he does get hit by our moves he can just powers through it with his super armor (both innate and on half his attacks). Good Bowsers are very good at getting in my space and pressuring me into throwing out moves that he can either outprioritize or punish using the super armor on his attacks.

I find that the best way to approach this one is to play keep away. Run away, then turn around unpredictably and throw out B-reversed Metal Blades and pivot ftilts and fsmashes. Use sweet spotted nair to ftilt to get through him relatively safely if he corners you, or go up and over with Rush. Do this until he whiffs a laggy move (of which he has a lot) and then punish it hard.

I've faced a lot of Bowsers and only a handful of them have been any good, but even against the good ones I've played against I feel like it's actually a very even match up. Bowser is always going to be scary because all it takes is one mistake and you're getting KO'd at 65%. One thing to remember is to take advantage of his massive hit box. Bair is very affective against bowser. And even though you pretty much never want to use lemons against him, MB is still very affective. Bowser is also one of the easiest characters to edge guard so use this to your advantage. Bair is particularly useful while edge guarding bowser and his big frame is an easy target for a fully charged Fsmash.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So ZSS is in the title, but people are discussing various matchups, so I'm going to post my rapid-fire, fairly bold statements for matchups against characters that general perception might be different than mine.

Positives:
- beats us in the neutral, but we kill about twice as fast (we can seriously rush cancel out of any kill combo from her, so she has to random hit us for a kill). Avoid bouncing fish shenanigans (punishable after a dodge), and I think we currently win the matchup (no worse than even). This is one that I actually could see shifting if Sheik techniques evolve.

- Nearly identical matchup to the Sheik one, but she has slightly better killers, and a slightly worse neutral game. She also can't outspam us, so this feels like a rinse/repeat matchup for us. We cause her major problems.

- I seriously think we should be stomping Rosalina. I mean that. She has no answer for projectile spam other than Down B, which is baitable/punishable. This changes slightly with her long neutral custom special, but I don't think it reverses the story. We should be winning this matchup.

- Yeah I know the concerns.... but pellets actually do cause flinch up close, metal blade/shadow blade are fantastic against him, and our aerials outrange his. He has nothing safe on shield other than grab, which really never should lead to anything. Our grabs meanwhile give us a lot of good positions + low % combos. We can outspace him, outzone him, kill him fairly early, out-recover AND out-edgeguard him. Again, aside from getting hit by random power moves, we should be winning this.

- once I figured out that his spin dashes are punishable by dtilt on reaction, this match turned to butter.

Other chars that I think we beat, but don't need to write up a full explanation of (unless requested):


Mostly evens, or chars we need to look into more:


Problematic matchups (for me)
/ - Mario is slightly worse because of combos... but this matchup feels hard even though on paper, it seems like we should win it. We outspace him, but he seems to having enough priority/speed to deal with it and it becomes tough. I do still feel like it's not a BAD matchup... but it requires different play.
- Kinda same as above. Speed + range to get in and out quickly... also his recovery is surprisingly good/hard to gimp. really gotta rely on the spikes against him, since you can hit a fair/bair, but he always seems to be able to get back. This is actually a fun matchup.
- Requires a different playstyle. Seems mostly even, but I have had issues in the past against her

 

[tmonty17]

Problematic matchups (for me)
/ - Mario is slightly worse because of combos... but this matchup feels hard even though on paper, it seems like we should win it. We outspace him, but he seems to having enough priority/speed to deal with it and it becomes tough. I do still feel like it's not a BAD matchup... but it requires different play.

Mario can be tough but I've run into a lot of good Marios online and the more I play them the easier it is for me to win. At first I was having a lot of trouble because I relied too heavily on Fsmash for KOs and I learned quickly that you pretty much never want to use that on Mario. Dtilt, lemons, Bair, will all help chip away at his health and I also feel like Mario is pretty easy to combo out of a grapple.

This MU is almost never easy but I always have a good time against Mario and it feels really rewarding when you when because Mario does have a lot of tools to neutralize Mega Man.

 

[ChopperDave]

Problematic matchups (for me)
/ - Mario is slightly worse because of combos... but this matchup feels hard even though on paper, it seems like we should win it. We outspace him, but he seems to having enough priority/speed to deal with it and it becomes tough. I do still feel like it's not a BAD matchup... but it requires different play.
- Kinda same as above. Speed + range to get in and out quickly... also his recovery is surprisingly good/hard to gimp. really gotta rely on the spikes against him, since you can hit a fair/bair, but he always seems to be able to get back. This is actually a fun matchup.
- Requires a different playstyle. Seems mostly even, but I have had issues in the past against her

- Really? I find this matchup easy-peasy. Simply jumping around and shooting lemons stuffs almost all his approach options.

And once he's off stage, Leaf Shield is his nemesis. Raptor Boost? Stuffs it, and gives you a free throw. Falcon Kick? Stuffs it and makes him miss the ledge grab. Falcon Dive? Stuffs it, and let's you easily footstool gimp him. Seriously, Leaf Shield shuts down Falcon's recovery options to an almost absurd degree.

Totally agree with you on /, though. Their reflectors are just awful for us. Completely unpunishable so they can just throw them out there whenever they please, and if they misread you it'll still probably do damage and spin you around. And like DDD they just love vertical aerial approaches, and without Danger Wrap Mega Man can have trouble dealing with those.

 

[cot(θ)]

Aside from Sheik, who's already been mentioned, I have one hell of a time against Yoshi and Toon Link.

A good Yoshi typically manages to out-zone me with eggs, and in close-range combat, his kicks come out too quickly and with too much range/priority for me to deal with. His recovery is also incredibly hard for me to counter, if he uses eggs effectively. I only really have any success keeping him in mid-range combat with lemons, and occasionally moving back to give myself room to stifle his approaches with metal blade.

Toon Link also has beast zoning with his projectiles, but unlike Link, who I have success fighting close-range, Toon Link's melee attacks and aerials make it very hard to gain the upper hand in close quarters. Fighting mid-range with lemons against either Link or Toon Link is a bit of a challenge, since the Hylian Shield will absorb it most of the time.

 

[Jackaraia]

Aside from Sheik, who's already been mentioned, I have one hell of a time against Yoshi and Toon Link.

A good Yoshi typically manages to out-zone me with eggs, and in close-range combat, his kicks come out too quickly and with too much range/priority for me to deal with. His recovery is also incredibly hard for me to counter, if he uses eggs effectively. I only really have any success keeping him in mid-range combat with lemons, and occasionally moving back to give myself room to stifle his approaches with metal blade.

Toon Link also has beast zoning with his projectiles, but unlike Link, who I have success fighting close-range, Toon Link's melee attacks and aerials make it very hard to gain the upper hand in close quarters. Fighting mid-range with lemons against either Link or Toon Link is a bit of a challenge, since the Hylian Shield will absorb it most of the time.

For Yoshi, I just try and zone them with Metal blades, and then also faking like I'm trying to BAir him, (doing it like three times in a row but wiffing intentionally) and then when they move in to punish the next one, over jump and Fair them.

I haven't had much trouble with Toon Link, TBH. Use Leaf Shield to cut through projectile spam and follow up with a Metal blade > Top Spin, and usually that's enough to shield snipe them. Also, the Lemons do keep their projectile spam to a small voided blip.

 

[Greward]

I played WF and GF against a ROB player and used 1312. Skull shield is useful because the big laser is easy to predict, but I'm not sure if it's better than the leaf shield. Also the skull shield hits him twice when thrown and we can follow it up with grab or something.
He's easy to edgeguard so that's our best bet. Also we can rush out of his uair which is his main kill move (also out of side B). He has some troubles getting juggled and thus uair and dangerous wrap are godlike.
ROB is underused but pretty good, I can see it being an evenish matchup.

 

[Kiyosuki]

So this just reflects before the patch. I don't know what changes may change things up but this is how I felt by the end of 1.03 for what it matters. Over time, I've at least considered his worst matchups to be , , and . These three just never not feel like an uphill struggle, and in Samus' case I really think she just shut everything Mega Man did down with finality.

A character merely having a reflector doesn't necessarily spell doom, but when you have one as fast and safe as Mario's then it's pretty troublesome. On top of that, he's so offensive and can use that stupid cape nice and safely WHILE being offensive that it's just a constant game of cat and mouse. I've fought a lot of Marios so I kinda know what to expect now but it's still tough.

ROB is super rare which is pretty much the main saving grace here, but what it comes down to is Mega Man's strength seems to be a steady defensive approach that favors mixups of projectiles and some of his strong melee hits, and ROB and his laser and that stupid top are just so good at controlling the space in front of him and keeping your projectiles at bay. On top of that, his moves are strong when you get in and perfectly suited for dealing with someone who just survived a mine field and somehow got in, only to get a robot jet foot in the face. Not impossible though, you do have options when in there it's just getting there hurts a lot.

Samus on the other hand though...I really feel like this character is just Mega Man's anathema. I'd even be willing to say it's his absolute worst matchup. You have no advantage. A smart Samus will always play complete defense, and since you didn't have the range to compete with her that way you have to approach, and that plays right into her hands. She can shoot down metal blades with ease with missiles that shoot faster. She can stay away from you all day. A smart Samus will always have a charge ready which makes harassing with lemons actually risky. Coming in from the air is risky because her anti air is very solid, she's practically built to be an edge warrior so other than gimping with leaf shield when she's off the stage she just has more options than you do there. The list goes on and on, she's just built to be the perfect answer to MM's kit imo. Other than maybe pressing an attack when she doesn't have a charge ready (which is still not easy she can still play keep away) and harassing with lemons then...about the only silver lining I can think of is that she's probably one of the rarest characters to come across.

Other more talked about matchups like , , , (god the legion of blonde girls lol), and even and can be very tough but I never feel like there's nothing you can do. Even if the match is lost, I usually feel like there was something I could have done differently...like you have a fighting chance as MM does have options against these characters (and in Rosa's case, I think way more than a few people realize. It's gonna be even better since she got hit by the nerf stick pretty decently post 1.04) but the above 3 are like...a nightmare to me every time.

I could see being pain too but tbh I've like, never come across one online. Once. It's really strange. I've fought one single match in my entire time with this game but it was pretty troublesome too, although that could be just the sheer unfamiliarity with him using this character.

Like I said some things could change post 1.04 though, and this is just my experience.

 

[---]

The Smash mantra since Isai coined it has been "don't get hit". While in most matchups, I prefer to take some risks in spacing to get higher potential rewards, this is one of those matchups that I DO NOT. In this matchup, you should actively try to keep jiggs at arm's length with zoning, and don't get hit. It's very possible.

Pretty much my biggest issue. Her air mobility makes it harder than it seems, and her buffed ground game doesn't help either.

 

[ohaiduhg]

*Edit: This needs redoing so I just deleted it all.*

 

[---]

ROB is super rare which is pretty much the main saving grace here, but what it comes down to is Mega Man's strength seems to be a steady defensive approach that favors mixups of projectiles and some of his strong melee hits, and ROB and his laser and that stupid top are just so good at controlling the space in front of him and keeping your projectiles at bay. On top of that, his moves are strong when you get in and perfectly suited for dealing with someone who just survived a mine field and somehow got in, only to get a robot jet foot in the face. Not impossible though, you do have options when in there it's just getting there hurts a lot.

Samus on the other hand though...I really feel like this character is just Mega Man's anathema. I'd even be willing to say it's his absolute worst matchup. You have no advantage. A smart Samus will always play complete defense, and since you didn't have the range to compete with her that way you have to approach, and that plays right into her hands. She can shoot down metal blades with ease with missiles that shoot faster. She can stay away from you all day. A smart Samus will always have a charge ready which makes harassing with lemons actually risky. Coming in from the air is risky because her anti air is very solid, she's practically built to be an edge warrior so other than gimping with leaf shield when she's off the stage she just has more options than you do there. The list goes on and on, she's just built to be the perfect answer to MM's kit imo. Other than maybe pressing an attack when she doesn't have a charge ready (which is still not easy she can still play keep away) and harassing with lemons then...about the only silver lining I can think of is that she's probably one of the rarest characters to come across.

Going through things I could agree more.

ROB is tough, especially since Arm Rotor can be used for approaching, but it's not a matchup where we have a lack of options or one side has automatically better options. Ex. MB cancels out Gyro. Can see this match up getting a lot better as the metagame develops over time.


Samus is just the worst. One's that's defensive is very difficult, they just love to shoot out a Super Missile at the start (which our only option is jumping/crouching, as none of our projectiles have the speed/hitbox to counter, can't slide either), and just focus on charging/rolling (they have a longer roll than us BTW) as approaching with Lemons is actually risky.

It's a match up that really proves that MM is a midrange character. Skull Barrier might provide a couple options for approaching as well as Danger Wrap for aerial games, but I'm definitely in the boat for this being our worst match up for now and is one for which you'll need a secondary for.

Have only fought one good online, but like a lot of characters this doesn't seem in our favor. Is the only character I know who's aerials make Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier a moot point.

 

[SSGuy]

I hate to go off topic and break a rule, but since we are on the topic of projectiles. Does anyone else have trouble with bombs? I feel like on stages like FD, he can pretty much harass your approach with bomb. The explosion is also bigger than I expect initially. Anyways, when I find myself avoiding the bomb, I only get caught with the zair or even worse, I get read and hit hard with Fair.

I don't think this match is hard but I for some reason am finding myself struggling with this. Ever since my match with the DFW Toon Link, I end up getting hit hard by bombs. I beat him the second time we played (3DS; wasn't recorded) but lost the first time we played on Wii U (again; wasn't recorded)

Should I be kicking myself for not banning FD? I was originally afraid of Kongo Jungle because of the barrel so I just went ahead and took it out of the equation. Looking back, we probably would have ended up on Town and City which I would have immediate advantage on him.

 

[Locke 06]

I hate to go off topic and break a rule, but since we are on the topic of projectiles. Does anyone else have trouble with bombs? I feel like on stages like FD, he can pretty much harass your approach with bomb. The explosion is also bigger than I expect initially. Anyways, when I find myself avoiding the bomb, I only get caught with the zair or even worse, I get read and hit hard with Fair.

I don't think this match is hard but I for some reason am finding myself struggling with this. Ever since my match with the DFW Toon Link, I end up getting hit hard by bombs. I beat him the second time we played (3DS; wasn't recorded) but lost the first time we played on Wii U (again; wasn't recorded)

Should I be kicking myself for not banning FD? I was originally afraid of Kongo Jungle because of the barrel so I just went ahead and took it out of the equation. Looking back, we probably would have ended up on Town and City which I would have immediate advantage on him.

We've been off topic for a while, mostly my fault for not doing any write-ups at all and facilitating discussion, so don't worry about it.

Link&toon link bombs are great weapons in that matchup. They make your life as mega man really tough since we're not used to projectiles being used against us effectively (part of the reason why ROB gives us trouble). My advice is to try and approach it like you were playing a normal smash character. I've been playing DK lately and it's made my approaches as Mega Man much better. Basically, when they have a bomb in hand, they've limited their options. React accordingly.

 

[Azazel]

If bombs are thrown straight at you, you can d-tilt through them, but a smart toon link will make the utilize the arc, and splash damage. Just shield it and react to their options. If they are in the lead, or stage control they may opt for offensive pressure, if you can predict it you can punish them: a d-tilt answers Zair or u-tilt answers Fairs. If you are in the lead, or have stage control they may opt to Drift away or something defensive or try to pull another bomb out, try to predict it, and RAR bair them or get a better position
Also you can attempt to trade with bombs with MB.
Some other thing you may find helpful.

• Dash attack clanks with arrows and Boomerangs
• Dash attack can also pass right through bombs if the bomb hits a hitbox first and not one of megaman's Hurtboxes. Also you might catch them :^)
• D-tilt has has a long lasting hitbox an is perfect for passing through bombs, note that Sweet spot D-tilt results in a boom, but Toon link can be caught in it
• D-tilt can dodge Zair well. only the most precise of Zairs can hit you.
• U-tilt-ing bombs have interesting results. the Hitlag freezes you in the invincibility frames, and also can be use as anti-air
• OoS Aerials can catch bombs that bounce off your shield pretty reliably

Also, Toon link doesn't have any thing that's less than 6 frames so we have better frame options up close. d-tilt (frame 5,4?) and u-tilt (frame 5 invinicbility)
cross-up roll d-tilt, U-tilt can be very potent
Toon link is a hard match up

 

[Azazel]

As long as we are still on toon link. if you are having trouble punishing his Dair, pro tip. U-air

 

[Fenrir VII]

Tink feels like a mosquito in the megaman matchup. Hard and annoying to catch but once you do.... Squish.

His mobility is better than ours. Our damage output and kill options are much better than his. Just be patient and we come out on top, imo.

In regards to bombs, they're just his best tool. I generally respect them, avoid/catch them, and continue per usual.

 

[NimbusSpark]

It personal opinion, and I know that this is fairly out of topic to this forum currently, but I personally think that MM easily has one of the better match-ups against Peach. Lemons can easily render her ability to float near-useless and are overall your best too against her. Her floatiness can make it easier for you to take down with your own U-Air and juggle too.

Another note, NEVER approach her from above. Peach's new U-Air and her U-Tilt have excellent disjointed range or lasting hitboxes that can stuff you up, and outspeed your D-Air.
Also, do not attempt to charge your F-Smash. She can easily float over your Charge Shots and use its fairly big ending lag to punish.

Just remember that the key to taking down Peach is to space her. Don't go aggressive until she's at a KO percentage, as she can rack a fair amount of damage to you. Peach can't do much besides her turnips. And even then, it does takes a small while for her to pull up a vegetable, in which she is fairly vulnerable.

 

[Razmakazi]

I main Peach and I use MM a lot and I can say that Peach can be annoying for MM. MM can't really kill her unless he lands metal blade or eventually kills with bthrow. sh pellets/jab zoning makes it hard to get in but MM can't really approach with it so that's a free turnip pull for Peach. Dash atk/turnip/or even a well-timed fair can get through pellet zoning. Generally, unless you can read a roll or an aerial to score a utilt kill, Peach is gonna land her fair and kill at 100ish. MM can get edgeguarded pretty hard by her, too.

On the other end of things, Metal blade is really good as usual. Crash bomb can at least force her to shield, or if you land it it can put her on the defensive--though Peach can still be a douche and dair approach and hope the bomb sticks to MM lol. Pellets still dooo make it difficult to approach, but they don't really apply that much pressure. MM seems to edgeguard Peach pretty well, which is saying something because float/dj/parasol, and parasol priority being ridiculous. Peach has to recover high or low and both are dangerous because uair/bair for high, and dair/metal blade/leaf shield shenanigans for low recoveries.

It seems fairly even except Peach kills easier, and MM has to be on the defensive in this match-up (like most characters vs Peach lol), so MM does have to worry about his defensive options getting read. Hmm...don't get grabbed coz that's a free combo (dthrow to bair + chase, or dthrow to uair chases). Yeah, just really don't get grabbed and don't get faired, which is easier said than done.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I main Peach and I use MM a lot and I can say that Peach can be annoying for MM. MM can't really kill her unless he lands metal blade or eventually kills with bthrow. sh pellets/jab zoning makes it hard to get in but MM can't really approach with it so that's a free turnip pull for Peach. Dash atk/turnip/or even a well-timed fair can get through pellet zoning. Generally, unless you can read a roll or an aerial to score a utilt kill, Peach is gonna land her fair and kill at 100ish. MM can get edgeguarded pretty hard by her, too.

I feel like this paragraph is assuming Megaman is standing there jabbing, as opposed to jumping out of it on the 2nd or 3rd one as he should. Given that option of pellets and jumping, pellets straight up beat dash attack (she shouldn't be able to get close enough assuming Mega keeps his spacing), turnip (can.never.pull.one), and fair (jumping pellet catches her float). Now she can slowly approach with dash shielding, but she really can't cover Megaman jumping over her with a dair (to reset spacing) without a harrrrd read so the match will become a really slow trudge for her

I actually feel like the differences in mobility really define this matchup. She simply has nothing that completely bypasses proper pellet spacing/jumping, so she has to work around it. You add that to Mega's Bair, Fair, Dair and Usmash, which are all disjointed attacks with ridiculous priority and good range, and Metal Blade, and he forms a very nice circle of mid-range zoning around her which she will have huge trouble closing, mostly because of her mobility.

For matchups like this (and Luigi, etc), Megaman kind of turns into Melee Marth + Melee Falco in terms of annoyance. he has the quick, flinch-inducing "blaster" AS WELL AS the aerial range + priority... not to even mention a good grab game.

I don't inherently disagree with the rest of what you're saying. They edgeguard each other well, and Peach is strong, but I think the topics above shift this one pretty significantly away from an even matchup, imo.