General Legend of Zelda Rep Support Thread

Zero Suit Violet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
109
Just out of interest, sorry if I’m being clueless but who’s the one-off for Metroid? We’ve got Samus (not, obviously) Zero Suit Samus (not), Ridley (not) and then Dark Samus (appears in MP 2&3).

Also, I think it’s great that people can still be optimistic for a new Zelda character, but at the same time can understand @PhantomShab and his point of view. Zelda has had prime characters that would fit into Smash well for years, yet they haven’t, so I am a bit skeptical myself.

One of the problems I foresee is that because there have been several viable character options (such as Impa, Midna and Skull Kid), if they do get around to adding a new Zelda rep, people will question why earlier characters weren’t “good enough” to get in.
To be honest, I feel like at this point, the Zelda fan base have a favorite character that can depend, but at the same time, we all just want some representation from it, and I think that if like .. Midna got in, Impa and Skull Kid fan wouldn't be mad at Midna fans, same thing for the reverse

The only problem I see with a Zelda rep, is if they pull a Corrin, and put in a character from an unreleased game that end up not being really popular, but I think they learned not to do that after Corrin, from talking a lot with fans, this fanbase is hella inclusive due to the fact of having so many good choices, yet waiting for so long to get them in
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
To be honest, I feel like at this point, the Zelda fan base have a favorite character that can depend, but at the same time, we all just want some representation from it, and I think that if like .. Midna got in, Impa and Skull Kid fan wouldn't be mad at Midna fans, same thing for the reverse.
I still wonder a bit about that. I think there’s always gonna be some portion of the fan base that wants to complain that character X didn’t get in. Also, because most of the heavily requested Zelda characters have been added as assist trophies, I could see some fans saying “Why is character X suddenly worthy of being promoted from AT to full on playable but character Y isn’t?”

I only think this would happen is because of the “almost, but not quite” nature of Zelda representation in Smash outside of the triforce trio. If we had got Midna in brawl and Skull Kid in Wii U/3DS, then there would be no arguments over which one should get in now, if that makes sense?

I think one of the problems is that the reasons to include older characters aren’t going to change, other than possibly fan demand, but again it would boil down to why are the reasons for character X suddenly worth listening to now, than they were when the character was first requested.
 

Freduardo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
2,047
More minions that got a shot:

Tektite: Been around since the begining... but not really used since. Not very likely.

Armads: All the ease of Darknut with twice the style. Still not likely.

Wizrobe: I think they’ve literally been in every game. Actually have had enough variants that there is a moveset there. Final smash can take from wizro in hyrule warriors or wizroboe in cadence of hyrule.

Poe: Recognizable, been around, people know the name. But still not a monster known for doing a whole lot. More known for collecting.

Skulltula: See poe.

Gibdo/Redead/Stalfos/Lizalfos: Recognizable, but most people still just call these guys “mummy, zombie, skeleton, and lizard man” more than their zelda names.

A universal zelda minion that cycles between alts of Moblin/Stalfos/Lizalfos/Darknut - Pretty workable actually. They all fight pretty similar.

Like Like - Certainly recognizable, but luckily a moveset is impossible or this would be the most annoying opponent in smash by sheer “staying true to his spirit”.

Anti Fairy - Similarly don’t see a moveset.

-

What about the goddesses/great fairies? Din, Farore, and Naryu. They’ve incarnated in multiple games, they power Zelda’s moveset, and they’d keep Palutena in goddess company.

-

Horrible spitballing: the Like Like moveset.

Like Like doesn’t have natural B moves (but does have a tether grab recovery as well as decent jumps) all four of Like Like’s B moves are grabs that if they hit the opponent give Like Like that B move for the rest of the stock, and deny the player’s ability to use it for the rest of the stock (making B Up’s pretty destructive... maybe give him a different b up and just let him cancel three b moves)
 

Zero Suit Violet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
109
I still wonder a bit about that. I think there’s always gonna be some portion of the fan base that wants to complain that character X didn’t get in. Also, because most of the heavily requested Zelda characters have been added as assist trophies, I could see some fans saying “Why is character X suddenly worthy of being promoted from AT to full on playable but character Y isn’t?”

I only think this would happen is because of the “almost, but not quite” nature of Zelda representation in Smash outside of the triforce trio. If we had got Midna in brawl and Skull Kid in Wii U/3DS, then there would be no arguments over which one should get in now, if that makes sense?

I think one of the problems is that the reasons to include older characters aren’t going to change, other than possibly fan demand, but again it would boil down to why are the reasons for character X suddenly worth listening to now, than they were when the character was first requested.
Mmmm, that's an interesting point of view, but actually I think the opposite would happen, if say, by next Smash, no games with Midna or Skull Kid are released until then, yet, Midna make the cut as playable, I feel like the Skull Kid fan base would have maybe a portion of dissapointement, but at the same time, Midna would have gotten in, without getting new games, only by shair popularity, don't you think it would boost the Skull Kid fan base to show that their character is popular too, and boost their hopes for next time ?

I don't know, I just see it more as a good thing for a character in a similar position, than a bad thing because it wasn't immediatly them, that's my point of view after !
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Just out of interest, sorry if I’m being clueless but who’s the one-off for Metroid? We’ve got Samus (not, obviously) Zero Suit Samus (not), Ridley (not) and then Dark Samus (appears in MP 2&3).

Also, I think it’s great that people can still be optimistic for a new Zelda character, but at the same time can understand @PhantomShab and his point of view. Zelda has had prime characters that would fit into Smash well for years, yet they haven’t, so I am a bit skeptical myself.

One of the problems I foresee is that because there have been several viable character options (such as Impa, Midna and Skull Kid), if they do get around to adding a new Zelda rep, people will question why earlier characters weren’t “good enough” to get in.
I was referring to Dark Samus, who is as much of a one-off as Skull Kid is. She is technically in two games but it's the same basic idea, really.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
I was referring to Dark Samus, who is as much of a one-off as Skull Kid is. She is technically in two games but it's the same basic idea, really.
See, now I would disagree about Dark Samus being the same as Skull Kid. Skull Kid has actually been in 3 Zelda games: OoT, MM and TP. I’m fairly certain Aonuma confirmed a long time ago that it was actually the same Skull Kid in all 3. I wouldn’t say there was anything technical about it. If Dark Samus’ appearance in MP3 was purely a cameo or a quick nod I would agree. She’s a pretty big driving force in both her games. Same goes for Skull Kid in MM, although you could be right about his TP appearance.

Mmmm, that's an interesting point of view, but actually I think the opposite would happen, if say, by next Smash, no games with Midna or Skull Kid are released until then, yet, Midna make the cut as playable, I feel like the Skull Kid fan base would have maybe a portion of dissapointement, but at the same time, Midna would have gotten in, without getting new games, only by shair popularity, don't you think it would boost the Skull Kid fan base to show that their character is popular too, and boost their hopes for next time ?

I don't know, I just see it more as a good thing for a character in a similar position, than a bad thing because it wasn't immediatly them, that's my point of view after !
While I do agree with you that there would probably be some initial disappointment for fans of Skull Kid or Midna (assuming the other got in), I think you’d be right that people’s hopes may be raised, although I wouldn’t get too optimistic personally.

I feel there’s 2 ways of looking at it. One could say: “Hey, we got Toon Link in Brawl, now we can get excited for the next Zelda rep in the next Smash”. At that point, I would be optimistic like the rest. However, jump forward two games and no new characters and I could understand how people would be skeptics, although not everyone would be I’m sure and there’s nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if we had got, say Midna in Wii U/3DS and Skull Kid for Ultimate, I would absolutely be optimistic for more Zelda reps but I feel the 10+ year lull has dappened Zelda fans’ hopes a fair bit and you’d never know if the same thing could happen further down the line. I’m not saying there needs to be a new rep every game, but it feels like it’s been so long and a fair few character ideas have come and gone (at least so far).

However, despite my misgivings, a new Zelda rep would be better than no new Zelda rep.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
See, now I would disagree about Dark Samus being the same as Skull Kid. Skull Kid has actually been in 3 Zelda games: OoT, MM and TP. I’m fairly certain Aonuma confirmed a long time ago that it was actually the same Skull Kid in all 3. I wouldn’t say there was anything technical about it. If Dark Samus’ appearance in MP3 was purely a cameo or a quick nod I would agree. She’s a pretty big driving force in both her games. Same goes for Skull Kid in MM, although you could be right about his TP appearance.



While I do agree with you that there would probably be some initial disappointment for fans of Skull Kid or Midna (assuming the other got in), I think you’d be right that people’s hopes may be raised, although I wouldn’t get too optimistic personally.

I feel there’s 2 ways of looking at it. One could say: “Hey, we got Toon Link in Brawl, now we can get excited for the next Zelda rep in the next Smash”. At that point, I would be optimistic like the rest. However, jump forward two games and no new characters and I could understand how people would be skeptics, although not everyone would be I’m sure and there’s nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if we had got, say Midna in Wii U/3DS and Skull Kid for Ultimate, I would absolutely be optimistic for more Zelda reps but I feel the 10+ year lull has dappened Zelda fans’ hopes a fair bit and you’d never know if the same thing could happen further down the line. I’m not saying there needs to be a new rep every game, but it feels like it’s been so long and a fair few character ideas have come and gone (at least so far).

However, despite my misgivings, a new Zelda rep would be better than no new Zelda rep.
I'm not saying she isn't important, I'm just saying she's only important to 2 games in the franchise. She's not a recurring character by any means. Skull Kid isn't a recurring character either. Especially since most people are really only talking about the MM version of Skull Kid. Either way, a character that has a major appearance in one or two games is not unprecedented in Smash. Every single Fire Emblem character on the roster has a major appearance in at most two games, usually just one. Ike and Roy are in two games I think, the rest are just one. (Unless you count the two versions of Fates for Corrin, but...)

There's also Pokemon, which, while the National Dex is in every game (except for SwSh and the rest of the games from now on I guess) certain Pokemon pretty much don't appear at all in the game unless you trade or transfer. Like Greninja and Mewtwo.

There's nothing WRONG with being a one-off character, in fact that was my entire point. Put popular one-off characters in Smash. Please.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
I'm not saying she isn't important, I'm just saying she's only important to 2 games in the franchise. She's not a recurring character by any means. Skull Kid isn't a recurring character either. Especially since most people are really only talking about the MM version of Skull Kid. Either way, a character that has a major appearance in one or two games is not unprecedented in Smash. Every single Fire Emblem character on the roster has a major appearance in at most two games, usually just one. Ike and Roy are in two games I think, the rest are just one. (Unless you count the two versions of Fates for Corrin, but...)

There's also Pokemon, which, while the National Dex is in every game (except for SwSh and the rest of the games from now on I guess) certain Pokemon pretty much don't appear at all in the game unless you trade or transfer. Like Greninja and Mewtwo.

There's nothing WRONG with being a one-off character, in fact that was my entire point. Put popular one-off characters in Smash. Please.
I agree with all your points. It’s just I wouldn’t put the one-off fire emblem reps in the same category as say Skull Kid or Dark Samus. I get that people are mainly referring to the MM form for representation although if indeed it is the same Skull Kid in his 3 appearances, then one could extrapolate from that, but there’s somewhere in between recurrent and one-off that I would place Skull Kid. Impa would most certainly be a recurring character. Midna a one off but as you’ve said: Just because a character has only been in one title of their franchise, that shouldn’t bar them from playable status.

I would place Skull Kid in a similar position to say King K. Rool. I.e. he’s not in every single game in the DK series but has appeared multiple times. Although it could be argued that King K. Rool has a similar function to Dark Samus, i.e. the final boss at the end of 2 or 3 games (although Dark Samus had a bit more of an active role than just a final boss in MP2).
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
I agree with all your points. It’s just I wouldn’t put the one-off fire emblem reps in the same category as say Skull Kid or Dark Samus. I get that people are mainly referring to the MM form for representation although if indeed it is the same Skull Kid in his 3 appearances, then one could extrapolate from that, but there’s somewhere in between recurrent and one-off that I would place Skull Kid. Impa would most certainly be a recurring character. Midna a one off but as you’ve said: Just because a character has only been in one title of their franchise, that shouldn’t bar them from playable status.

I would place Skull Kid in a similar position to say King K. Rool. I.e. he’s not in every single game in the DK series but has appeared multiple times. Although it could be argued that King K. Rool has a similar function to Dark Samus, i.e. the final boss at the end of 2 or 3 games (although Dark Samus had a bit more of an active role than just a final boss in MP2).
King K Rool is the main antagonist of the first four Donkey Kong Country games, and also the GB DK games, and has appeared in several DK spinoffs. He just didn't show up in DKC Returns. K Rool is definitely very VERY far off from Skull Kid.

Unless you consider Baron K Roolenstein and Kaptain K Rool as seperate people...
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,667
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
The K.Rool comparison doesn’t work no. He was always DK’s main villain, much like Ganon is in Zelda.

I’m still curious what BotW2 might bring honestly. We’re probably gonna see Ganondorf, but outside of that I have no idea of what we might see. Still having hope for Impa, however, last time that was also a big disappointment... She missed all her traction in becoming by a Zelda mainstay by her lackluster role in BotW. I still don’t get it, because it was heavily Sheikah themed.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
King K Rool is the main antagonist of the first four Donkey Kong Country games, and also the GB DK games, and has appeared in several DK spinoffs. He just didn't show up in DKC Returns. K Rool is definitely very VERY far off from Skull Kid.

Unless you consider Baron K Roolenstein and Kaptain K Rool as seperate people...
Ok fair enough. I’ve only ever played DKC 1, 2 and 3 so had no idea of his appearing in DK64 (I own the game, just never played it). I’m not sure whether you could include spin-off appearances as no one ever seems to want to do the same with Hyrule Warriors (which I get is just one game). However, I could see the case of the Donkey Kong Land games as making sense. I’m not sure I would include remakes and ports either, as again Zelda has several of those with OoT especially. I know you should never trust Wikipedia but then again, it only says there that his “main appearances” were in the above four games, so maybe there’s not quite so much difference in these situations.

I wasn’t trying to compare K. Rool’s importance to the DK series and Skull Kid’s in Zelda. More just because we were discussing the number of appearances. Absolutely K. Rool is more relevant to his series than Midna and Skull Kid are to Zelda. There’s no denying that. But from a number of appearances point of view, I can see the comparison, but maybe that’s just me XD.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Ok fair enough. I’ve only ever played DKC 1, 2 and 3 so had no idea of his appearing in DK64 (I own the game, just never played it). I’m not sure whether you could include spin-off appearances as no one ever seems to want to do the same with Hyrule Warriors (which I get is just one game). I’m not sure I would include remakes and ports either, as again Zelda has several of those with OoT especially. I know you should never trust Wikipedia but then again, it only says there that his “main appearances” were in the above four games, so maybe there’s not quite so much difference in these situations.

I wasn’t trying to compare K. Rool’s importance to the DK series and Skull Kid’s in Zelda. More just because we were discussing the number of appearances.
The GB games weren't really ports/remakes. The GBA games were. The GB games were kinda their own thing, somewhat kinda the same game but also not really.

Skull Kid may appear in 3 games, but only one of those appearances actually mattered. In OoT he gives you a heart piece, and in TP he just serves to make the lost woods more confusing. It's more of a cameo for those two games.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
The GB games weren't really ports/remakes. The GBA games were. The GB games were kinda their own thing, somewhat kinda the same game but also not really.

Skull Kid may appear in 3 games, but only one of those appearances actually mattered. In OoT he gives you a heart piece, and in TP he just serves to make the lost woods more confusing. It's more of a cameo for those two games.
Oh yeah, for sure. But then we’re back to the idea that one off important appearances shouldn’t make any difference to a character’s chances. I also amended my previous post as I ended up finding the GB games. With the addition of the GB games, I can see why my comparison wouldn’t wash.

It can be very difficult to decide what makes a character important to their series. Some people seem to go with number of appearances. Others go with their roles during those appearances. Others still seem to think only if a character is playable in their series (although there aren’t many cases outside of that anymore for smash reps, every non Link Zelda character, I’m ignoring the CDi games, shoot me, palutena I think? and Duck Hunt Duo being some of them).

I think the main reason I see for wanting to add more Zelda representation is because of the fan favourites of particular “roles” within the series. As I say, I would go for Vaati to represent the secondary villain role of the series, but then it’s almost like he doesn’t exist anymore. Which is why I then revert back to Skull Kid. I would consider Ghirahim but it seems his popularity has waned a bit since Skyward Sword.

Midna is most definitely the fan favourite “companion” character the series has seen and seeing as how companions were an important part of the series for over 10 years, that makes her a sensible rep to me.

After that, for Smash reps at least, I would start to struggle a bit. If we were discussing Hyrule Warriors 2, there’d be loads to choose from. Having said that, I do agree with some other people here who suggest having a representative of each of the common races, Goron, Zora, Rito and Gerudo. I see people argue against a Gerudo because “Oh Ganondorf is a Gerudo” but I’m pretty confident that he wasn’t added for that fact, more because his reception in OoT and as a humanoid version of the series’ main antagonist, he’d be easier to put in, and even then he still only made it in as a clone, lol.

I would most definitely pay out for a Bowser Jr. style Goron, Zora, Rito and Gerudo rep. Although only the first two races could have several different characters for alts I think...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Oh yeah, for sure. But then we’re back to the idea that one off important appearances shouldn’t make any difference to a character’s chances. I also amended my previous post as I ended up finding the GB games. With the addition of the GB games, I can see why my comparison wouldn’t wash.

It can be very difficult to decide what makes a character important to their series. Some people seem to go with number of appearances. Others go with their roles during those appearances. Others still seem to think only if a character is playable in their series (although there aren’t many cases outside of that anymore for smash reps, every non Link Zelda character, I’m ignoring the CDi games, shoot me, palutena I think? and Duck Hunt Duo being some of them).

I think the main reason I see for wanting to add more Zelda representation is because of the fan favourites of particular “roles” within the series. As I say, I would go for Vaati to represent the secondary villain role of the series, but then it’s almost like he doesn’t exist anymore. Which is why I then revert back to Skull Kid. I would consider Ghirahim but it seems his popularity has waned a bit since Skyward Sword.

Midna is most definitely the fan favourite “companion” character the series has seen and seeing as how companions were an important part of the series for over 10 years, that makes her a sensible rep to me.

After that, for Smash reps at least, I would start to struggle a bit. If we were discussing Hyrule Warriors 2, there’d be loads to choose from. Having said that, I do agree with some other people here who suggest having a representative of each of the common races, Goron, Zora, Rito and Gerudo. I see people argue against a Gerudo because “Oh Ganondorf is a Gerudo” but I’m pretty confident that he wasn’t added for that fact, more because his reception in OoT and as a humanoid version of the series’ main antagonist, he’d be easier to put in, and even then he still only made it in as a clone, lol.

I would most definitely pay out for a Bowser Jr. style Goron, Zora, Rito and Gerudo rep. Although only the first two races could have several different characters for alts I think...
It'll never happen, but I think having all four of the BotW champions as a seperate character in Smash would be great for representing the four main "races" of the games. I really want Mipha...
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
It'll never happen, but I think having all four of the BotW champions as a seperate character in Smash would be great for representing the four main "races" of the games. I really want Mipha...
Oh yeah, Mipha > Sidon all day long imo. That’s why I like my “races” idea because you could represent so much of the series: Darunia/Darmani/Darbus/Daruk plus some more alts, perhaps generic Gorons from the series, as an example as then we’d get the best of old and new. I think they could literally do one race character in Smash maybe every release (that’s what I’d like but I’m biased with my Zelda tinted glasses <.<) or every other release. Oh god I would love the Goron’s final smash be Darunia’s Saria’s Song dance around the stage, with accompanying music, of course. Or maybe a reference to OoT: How about a big Goron hug? Cue raining Gorons XD.

But I personally would want Midna and Skull Kid to get in first as their popularity is centred on just the one character and the whole “roles” thing I really do think is important. I think I’ve said this before but did people see the reaction at e3 when Midna was announced as playable in Hyrule Warriors? It felt like a pretty major thing. Then you’ve got the furore over Skull Kid not being included in Majora’s Mask dlc. They changed their minds pretty quick about that.

I would say the addition of the above would be a priority before they start looking at generic enemies, a la piranha plant but that’s my opinion.
 
Last edited:

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,667
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Honestly am not even gonna expect a new full fledged Zelda newcomer no more. The only character I feel has a sort of chance is honestly Impa, also my most wanted, and that’s because there’s a slight chance that she will be in BotW2 I think. She’s the only prominent character alive from BotW 1, and might just show up as her younger self due to the anti aging rune that Purah was working on. Even if she’d be a Sheik Echo, I’ll take that over nothing at all. Anyone else with me?
 

Lenidem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
173
Honestly am not even gonna expect a new full fledged Zelda newcomer no more. The only character I feel has a sort of chance is honestly Impa, also my most wanted, and that’s because there’s a slight chance that she will be in BotW2 I think. She’s the only prominent character alive from BotW 1, and might just show up as her younger self due to the anti aging rune that Purah was working on. Even if she’d be a Sheik Echo, I’ll take that over nothing at all. Anyone else with me?
Not me. We already have three clones, and I have no interest in Echoes.
 

Lenidem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
173
I'm not really ''opposed'' to anything. But it's about time The Legend of Zelda gets another real, unique character. If all we get is an Echo, even a Ken-level one, I would not be happy, no.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,667
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Well Impa can easily get in as a unique character if we get a new Hyrule Warriors, or if she’s actively fighting in BotW2 (if she’s appears). So that could help. But as it stands, she’s most likely as a Echo if there’s gonna be a Skyward Sword remake. Demise would then also be a cute Ganondorf Echo. Maybe give Demise Eruption (Ike’s Neutral B) with lightning effects? Impa could work as a very unique Echo. Or be a semi clone, or just be unique. It’s the overall flexibility that helps her I feel.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Honestly am not even gonna expect a new full fledged Zelda newcomer no more. The only character I feel has a sort of chance is honestly Impa, also my most wanted, and that’s because there’s a slight chance that she will be in BotW2 I think. She’s the only prominent character alive from BotW 1, and might just show up as her younger self due to the anti aging rune that Purah was working on. Even if she’d be a Sheik Echo, I’ll take that over nothing at all. Anyone else with me?
I would definitely take an echo fighter if the alternative was nothing. Unlike a lot of other people, I love echo fighters. I think they're legitimately one of the best ways to expand the roster because of how easy they are to make.

I do think we're going to get a totally unique Zelda rep, though. My personal theory is that we'll get a unique Zelda rep, and that rep will come with an echo fighter. Bundling echo fighters with unique characters is a good way to get around the problem of people not wanting to spend money on echos.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
12,491
Location
Somewhere in the West.
I would definitely take an echo fighter if the alternative was nothing. Unlike a lot of other people, I love echo fighters. I think they're legitimately one of the best ways to expand the roster because of how easy they are to make.

I do think we're going to get a totally unique Zelda rep, though. My personal theory is that we'll get a unique Zelda rep, and that rep will come with an echo fighter. Bundling echo fighters with unique characters is a good way to get around the problem of people not wanting to spend money on echos.
Would Twili Midna work as a compromise?

Either that, or we could get Hyrule Warriors characters, seeing as none of them show up at all, even as spirits.

I still wonder a bit about that. I think there’s always gonna be some portion of the fan base that wants to complain that character X didn’t get in. Also, because most of the heavily requested Zelda characters have been added as assist trophies, I could see some fans saying “Why is character X suddenly worthy of being promoted from AT to full on playable but character Y isn’t?”

I only think this would happen is because of the “almost, but not quite” nature of Zelda representation in Smash outside of the triforce trio. If we had got Midna in brawl and Skull Kid in Wii U/3DS, then there would be no arguments over which one should get in now, if that makes sense?

I think one of the problems is that the reasons to include older characters aren’t going to change, other than possibly fan demand, but again it would boil down to why are the reasons for character X suddenly worth listening to now, than they were when the character was first requested.
Extremely valid point you've put across there.

This goes for any character that's currently an AT. Especially Waluigi, imagine the vitriol from other fanbases if he got promoted in the same game, and no one else.

I still think there won't be any AT promotions in the same game, that would take away work that can be saved for elsewhere.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Would Twili Midna work as a compromise?

Either that, or we could get Hyrule Warriors characters, seeing as none of them show up at all, even as spirits.



Extremely valid point you've put across there.

This goes for any character that's currently an AT. Especially Waluigi, imagine the vitriol from other fanbases if he got promoted in the same game, and no one else.

I still think there won't be any AT promotions in the same game, that would take away work that can be saved for elsewhere.
I don't think Spirits matter at all. They're just images with a fight attached to them... Trophies in Smash 4 didn't matter (see Mewtwo and Lucas) and those were a completely original 3D model, not just an image. Spirits are meaningless when considering DLC.

Twili Midna would be pretty neat I suppose. I would be okay with ANY Zelda rep, but anyone from TP is not my first choice by any means. OoT and TP are the two games in the series I care about the least. TP already got a stage and a ton of music, and all three main Zelda characters had their design based on it for 2 whole games. I'd much rather have content from a less-represented Zelda game.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
I think personally, that Zelda is the series that should first get an AT promotion over someone like Waluigi because let’s face it, the Mario series has had one/two new reps each game (and deservedly so, being the mascot franchise). However as Zelda hasn’t seen anything in the realms of new characters for quite some time (Brawl if you count Toon Link, or Melee if not), I think it just makes sense that a fan favourite character who is currently an AT from the franchise makes the jump.

Also, completely agreed on Tingle, I won’t even touch him in Hyrule Warriors, just.... no. Also the other ATs (Skull Kid, Midna and Ghirahim) don’t have any stage presence, so it’d make more sense to promote one of those 3.

I think the main problem is that because the fan favourite Zelda characters, instead of being playable, have only ever been ATs, it feels almost inevitable that there’s going to be disappointed fans if they go and add a brand new character, rather than promote the earlier fan requests first. It would be better if say, instead of Midna, we’d got Zant as an AT in Brawl and possibly Fi instead of Ghirahim in Wii U/3DS and Midna and Ghirahim had made it in as characters in previous titles. At least if we already had some of the fan favourites playable, people would be less likely to say (just as a hypothetical, let’s say they added Daruk), “Oh why is Daruk more worthwhile to be playable than Midna was when she was an overwhelming favourite for a previous game?”
 

Freduardo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
2,047
One shot zelda characters that would enrage the fanbase if they got in, but I’d be pretty happy with it:

Byrne
Agnahim
Yuga
Hilda
Maple (Technically not actually a one off. And I’m not even talking about Irene)

Alright people, what would you rather have:

Impa as an echo of Sheik, knowing Impa got in.

Hilda as an echo of Zelda, knowing Impa could still get in with a unique moveset?
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
4,186
Location
Australia
One shot zelda characters that would enrage the fanbase if they got in, but I’d be pretty happy with it:

Byrne
Agnahim
Yuga
Hilda
Maple (Technically not actually a one off. And I’m not even talking about Irene)

Alright people, what would you rather have:

Impa as an echo of Sheik, knowing Impa got in.

Hilda as an echo of Zelda, knowing Impa could still get in with a unique moveset?
Impa Echo.

I was surprised it didn't happen to begin with. I thought her and Daisy were shoo-ins for that kinda treatment
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
4,186
Location
Australia
Personally, I'd take just about anything. Then again, I'm a casual Zelda fan, so I'm not bothered that much.

Ironically enough, Zelda's pretty good about getting new stages and songs from the latest games consistently, so go figure there.
Yeah, which is why I generally argue against those who say Zelda is poorly represented.

It's characters are certainly, but stages and music is pretty good. Even if we still don't have anything original from Majora's Mask soundtrack. Termima Field doesn't count.



If you want something that has a lot, but is very poorly represented, look at Kirby.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
12,491
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Yeah, which is why I generally argue against those who say Zelda is poorly represented.

It's characters are certainly, but stages and music is pretty good. Even if we still don't have anything original from Majora's Mask soundtrack. Termima Field doesn't count.



If you want something that has a lot, but is very poorly represented, look at Kirby.
I honestly wonder how the Japanese fans take that. Besides the BWD/Magolor support, do the rest apply to the "I am satisfied with this" meme?

Meanwhile, the rest of the entire world:


I wonder if the ballot will make Nintendo force Sakurai's hand in regards to that. It doesn't matter if he's unfamiliar with the other characters or would mess them up, HAL would appreciate it all the same.

Then again, it's still worlds above ROB's representation. :ultfalcon:'s lucky to get all sorts of swag by himself, by virtue of being one of the original 12 veterans.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
718
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
One shot zelda characters that would enrage the fanbase if they got in, but I’d be pretty happy with it:

Byrne
Agnahim
Yuga
Hilda
Maple (Technically not actually a one off. And I’m not even talking about Irene)

Alright people, what would you rather have:

Impa as an echo of Sheik, knowing Impa got in.

Hilda as an echo of Zelda, knowing Impa could still get in with a unique moveset?
I don't think Impa really qualifies for a unique moveset. Sure, she could pretty easily have one, Hyrule Warriors has proven that, but she really doesn't need one to keep her character. A sheik echo fighter that hits slightly harder and moves slightly slower is really all they'd need to do. Maybe they could change one of her special moves?

Hilda would also be a perfect echo fighter...

Can I say both? lol
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
1,030
I don't think Impa really qualifies for a unique moveset. Sure, she could pretty easily have one, Hyrule Warriors has proven that, but she really doesn't need one to keep her character. A sheik echo fighter that hits slightly harder and moves slightly slower is really all they'd need to do. Maybe they could change one of her special moves?
What if they gave her the whip from Melee and Brawl, but they made it good instead of bad?
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,667
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I don't think Impa really qualifies for a unique moveset. Sure, she could pretty easily have one, Hyrule Warriors has proven that, but she really doesn't need one to keep her character. A sheik echo fighter that hits slightly harder and moves slightly slower is really all they'd need to do. Maybe they could change one of her special moves?

Hilda would also be a perfect echo fighter...

Can I say both? lol
A singular kunai instead of needles would work with this. The Melee F Air as well. And since she has longer limbs, longer range is also a thing they could give Impa with the trade off of being the exact same weight but taller.

Anyway I won't know what to expect from Impa unless I know if she's in BotW2 honestly.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
4,186
Location
Australia
You know, I’ve always wanted the Stone Tower Temple music in Smash. It’s one of my all time favourite Zelda dungeon themes, although I prefer the normal to the inverted. Maybe it’s the use of the ocarina?
Stone Tower remix is a must. As is Clock Town. I love the entire soundtrack, but those two is what I really ask for.
 

Darklink46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
79
I think regarding Stone Tower though, I’d personally prefer the original from MM. I wasn’t too keen on the Gerudo Valley remix in Wii U/3DS and was pleased to see the original included in Ultimate. The remix had a sort of low key part which didn’t fit with the rest of the tune, although I could understand how people would get tired of the repetitious nature of the original, but for me, that just makes them more memorable.

Can’t believe I forgot Deku Palace! That was always awesome and made me look forward to arriving there every time I played MM, much like Stone Tower.
 
Last edited:
Top