This thread isn't really for this. It's about discussing Ike Metagame.
Also, if you have a beef with Roith's guide (which i also agree is significantly worse than Kirk's), please post it there, not here.
I'd also like to point out that in pretty much every character spec. board in melee, had a sticky that was along the same lines as this one.
Furthermore, this thread is designed, and fulfilling it's duty as helping the Ike metagame.
I myself, and everyone I know that cares, prefers Kirk's Ike guide over Roiths, but to have two sticky'd guides is both absurd and wasteful, so it's not that this thread is being stickey'd where Kirk's isn't. They're filling different roles.
While you bring up some point about Azen vs Kirk, i'm sure they do have some pretty good play, probably better than Silven, since Azen's frikin playing. Does this mean i'm not allowed to link to some videos and bring up points about them? No. I just haven't gotten around to seeing Azen's games against Kirk. When I do, i'll probably comment on some of their techniques/ tactics as well. In fact, since you're so great at seeing them, instead of coming in here and flaming Roith's thread why don't you bring up some tactics/ strats displayed in the Azen vs Kirk? Woah. Too much, i know, helpful people in the brawl boards? can't happen. you're only allowed to flame, right?
So please, don't flame Roth's threads here, don't pretend that this thread is stealing anything from Kirks guide (they're filling different roles), if you have some issue with Kirk's guide not being stickeyd, why don't you just PM a mod and ask why Roith's guide is stickeyd instead of Kirks, since those are the ones in direct competition.
BTW, the mods are not crazy, they've got more than their work cut out for them dealing with people on the brawl boards, so why don't you try to cut them some slack?
You're absolutely right on all points. I shouldn't have posted it here, yet I don't know where else to post it and I don't know how to tell a mod from a normal poster. And you are correct that Roith's is in direct competition with Kirk's not yours. Im sorry I made you think that I had something against you or this thread. I think what you're doing and what you've done in the past is and are fantastic. I certainly did not try nor intend to flame you nor this thread so if I came off that way, I don't see it and I am sorry. I am only bothered that the mods were available to sticky a good thread but failed to notice another good thread that is quite possibly better than a previously stickied thread. Before, it was easy to understand because nothing was getting attention.
Please forgive me.
Now, since I actually have constructive things to discuss:
I played Ike in a brawl tournament yesterday, and what I was caught by surpise was, I don't know what type of stage to counterpick. I'll break up what i felt were the pros/ cons of small vs large stages
Small stages:
+Ike's got huge rage, covers more of the stage
+Ike kills at lower %s
+Ike can't be projectile camped as well
-Ike's weight plays less of a role because he'll die significantly earlier
-There's less room for Ike to maneuver, so it's easier for people to get inside his range.
Larger Stages:
+Ike can keep people at the range he wants them to be
+Ike can camp better against non-projectile users
+Ike's weight makes him live exponentially longer
-Ike kills at higher %s meaning he'll have to hit them 1-3 more times per stock
-Ike can be projectile camped
While I know that exact stage counterpicks are matchup based, It's typical that either Ike will tend to like large stages more or small stages more.
It's hard for me to start because I feel like an Ike scholar and video reviewer and so I don't know what is common knowledge amongst competitive players. And I don't know what you already know of Ike. I'll say what I feel I noticed
different between Kirks other videos and his videos with Azen.
I was particularly impressed more with Azen's ability to gimp an Ike than his ability to play it. I believe the major difference between Kirk and Azen, currently, is that Azen had a solid edge game and appeared to be very familiar with the edge of the stage. He was comfortable at all times around the edge. I think the only reason Kirk was able to beat him almost equally as often as he was beaten is because they were nearly equal on the floor game with Ike.
Things of note:
Fair off the stage to prevent recovers - probably most useful versus those with gimpable recoveries like Ike, Zamus, and Olimar and lightweights. Especially useful against players that are already far from the edge (as Kirk used to a secure a win vs Azen) and when combined with an edge hog against high and away players (as Azen used to secure a ko vs Kirk after Bairing his Aether)
Bair out of a block (when the enemy is behind) seems almost useless. They both used it extensively and I swear not one of them hit. Maybe Ftilt or Side B would be better? What can be used to turn around quickly after blocking an attack?
Edit: Apparently I was high or something the first time I viewed the videos. Bair out of shield worked about as many times as it didn't, with devastating effect when it landed. I guess the misses stood out more in my mind.
Aether is exceptional for avoiding spikes and meteors. SAF's really count for a lot when the opponent is aggressive.
Side B seems to be a somewhat decent recovery, mostly when you're very high up and the opponent can't tell if you intend to fly over them, fly into them, or fly into the ledge. Aether can be stopped with good timing from ON TOP of the stage. The only ways I can think of to avoid this is Aether lower, so that Ike himself never goes above the stage; Aether higher, so that Ike goes up so high the opponent's prediction is off and land on the stage; or Side B when you expect they want to stop your Aether mid flight (assuming you make the decision the moment you're knocked off the stage, not when it's too late).
Edit: After reviewing the videos, Aethering above the stage is always a bad idea unless 1, your opponent isn't on the stage waiting for you; 2, You're absolutely sure you're going to hit them with it; or 3, you damage % is lower enough that you won't be knocked hopelessly away from the stage, unable to recover and you deem it worth the risk. The challenge almost seems to be to find a way to nail an Aether as low as you can without missing in order to avoid retaliation.
Usmash kicks *** - great for edge guarding, tech chasing, protecting yourself against airborne attackers, dash -> surprise attacks, and best of all: ko's.
Fair is great for spacing and Fsmash, when used properly can help Ike control his opponent (if not, kill them). In one video Kirk pulls a come-from-behind win with a well-timed, somewhat charged Fsmash against Azen who had less damage on him.
Air dodge seems to slow knockback, I'm not sure if it does but both Azen and Kirk seem to get a kick out of using it.
Utilt hits enemies who are very close behind Ike, this is situationally useful.
AAA and Aerials seem to be Ike's bread and butter.
These are simply things I picked up at a glance. That it was an Ike ditto made it easier to notice techniques, yet harder to predict whether they'd be useful against characters with more versatile recoveries and low pre-lag attacks that punish high post-lag attacks.
We need more detail on Eruption use and Counter use. All I know of Eruption is it's SAF's after releasing the button and it's incredible vertical range (deals the same damage on all sides, not sure about the difference in knockback, however). It's someone useful for avoiding the knockback on a potentially deadly Uair.
Tripping is the bane of humanity.