Betaz
Smash Ace
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142139
^^^^^
This will answer all
for those that have the game:
>.> are there any good uses for CraqWalking with Ike? like maybe using it to lead into an
f-Smash/u-Smash?
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General Ike Discussion, Q&A, and Video Archive
- Thread starter SCOTU
- Start date
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^^^^^
This will answer all
for those that have the game:
>.> are there any good uses for CraqWalking with Ike? like maybe using it to lead into an
f-Smash/u-Smash?
Kirk
Smash Champion
I'm unsure if it is useful at all. For one, it kind of slow to do, and there are generally better options...and we don't want to make Ike any slower than he already is :D
Also, I tested the slide length, it doesn't go nearly as far as you see in the craq walk video of luigi, thus making it less useful...in my opinion.
Betaz
Smash Ace
whoa..Kirk I just noticed something...on your match against Azen (#8 on Smashville) at about 4:54 you landed an f-smash YET HE STILL GRABBED YOU!(you can even see the damage) ....does Ike have SAF on his Grab? or was it a fluke?
Kirk
Smash Champion
This has happened to me on more than one occasion.
I'm pretty sure it is a glitch, me hitting him and the grab grabbing at the exact same time.
It was a Dsmash IIRC, could be wrong. But yeah, they take full damage, but the grab cancels out the knockback for some reason...I'm not sure.
Ike cannont chain throw with any of his grabs.
2nd edit: Stop comparing Ike to Roy >.>
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I just finished watching Silven's new Ike vids, and three things stuck out to me.
1. the ledgehopped QD. This looks useful as it's quick, and lets him GTFO, like a ledgehopped illusion in melee
2. the Sliding Fair. Running off the edge, and Forward airing. this appears to be a good edeguard technique.
3. Ike grabs the edge from either direction from Aether. This has some pretty strong edge guarding/ offensive recovery implications.
1. the ledgehopped QD. This looks useful as it's quick, and lets him GTFO, like a ledgehopped illusion in melee
2. the Sliding Fair. Running off the edge, and Forward airing. this appears to be a good edeguard technique.
3. Ike grabs the edge from either direction from Aether. This has some pretty strong edge guarding/ offensive recovery implications.
WeLikeIke
Smash Cadet
Alright, I didn't want to do it but this thread made me. I'm pissed. The mods are seem to be trying to oppose Kirk if I confirm this to be true there will be some maiming in these parts.
First Roith, now this? And Kirk's guide STILL isn't stickied? Roith's guide is fine but it's HORRIBLE on the eyes. I burst a blood vessel trying to read it. Kirk's guide is neatly layed out and features a full moveset video with percentages, ranges, and knockback. Kirk also has nearly (if not more than) a hundred good Ike videos. Highquality image and high quality gameplay. Good Ikes are few and far between, good Ike video producers are even fewer. It's a shame his guide was overlooked in favor of a newer thread.
Not to say there's anything wrong with this one, it's just that it's a new sticky which means they are stickying useful threads, but still opted to keep Roith's in over Kirks. Which I think is a bit ludicrous.
Silven's pretty good from the videos I saw but I think there's more to learn from Azen vs Kirk.
I hate that I had to create an account just to say this but it had to be said. Oh well.
First Roith, now this? And Kirk's guide STILL isn't stickied? Roith's guide is fine but it's HORRIBLE on the eyes. I burst a blood vessel trying to read it. Kirk's guide is neatly layed out and features a full moveset video with percentages, ranges, and knockback. Kirk also has nearly (if not more than) a hundred good Ike videos. Highquality image and high quality gameplay. Good Ikes are few and far between, good Ike video producers are even fewer. It's a shame his guide was overlooked in favor of a newer thread.
Not to say there's anything wrong with this one, it's just that it's a new sticky which means they are stickying useful threads, but still opted to keep Roith's in over Kirks. Which I think is a bit ludicrous.
If you want real Ike action watch Azen vs Kirk. They have some real techniques. And there's an excessive amount of footage between them so you can watch their game develop.
Silven's pretty good from the videos I saw but I think there's more to learn from Azen vs Kirk.
I hate that I had to create an account just to say this but it had to be said. Oh well.
Hostility
Smash Ace
Reverse grabbing ledges applies for everyone. And yea, those other two things you mentioned are quite useful. Just don't do them too much, as both are risky to a point.
reothepenguin
Smash Journeyman
I hate to say it, cause i think roith's guide is great, but you're right. What are the mods thinking? It's almost as if they do this to get certain people riled up.
tshkn
Smash Cadet
in the next SSB F.E. R.D. IKE verison please 
SCOTU
Smash Hero
This thread isn't really for this. It's about discussing Ike Metagame.
Also, if you have a beef with Roith's guide (which i also agree is significantly worse than Kirk's), please post it there, not here.
I'd also like to point out that in pretty much every character spec. board in melee, had a sticky that was along the same lines as this one.
Furthermore, this thread is designed, and fulfilling it's duty as helping the Ike metagame.
I myself, and everyone I know that cares, prefers Kirk's Ike guide over Roiths, but to have two sticky'd guides is both absurd and wasteful, so it's not that this thread is being stickey'd where Kirk's isn't. They're filling different roles.
While you bring up some point about Azen vs Kirk, i'm sure they do have some pretty good play, probably better than Silven, since Azen's frikin playing. Does this mean i'm not allowed to link to some videos and bring up points about them? No. I just haven't gotten around to seeing Azen's games against Kirk. When I do, i'll probably comment on some of their techniques/ tactics as well. In fact, since you're so great at seeing them, instead of coming in here and flaming Roith's thread why don't you bring up some tactics/ strats displayed in the Azen vs Kirk? Woah. Too much, i know, helpful people in the brawl boards? can't happen. you're only allowed to flame, right?
So please, don't flame Roth's threads here, don't pretend that this thread is stealing anything from Kirks guide (they're filling different roles), if you have some issue with Kirk's guide not being stickeyd, why don't you just PM a mod and ask why Roith's guide is stickeyd instead of Kirks, since those are the ones in direct competition.
BTW, the mods are not crazy, they've got more than their work cut out for them dealing with people on the brawl boards, so why don't you try to cut them some slack?
Now, since I actually have constructive things to discuss:
I played Ike in a brawl tournament yesterday, and what I was caught by surpise was, I don't know what type of stage to counterpick. I'll break up what i felt were the pros/ cons of small vs large stages
Small stages:
+Ike's got huge rage, covers more of the stage
+Ike kills at lower %s
+Ike can't be projectile camped as well
-Ike's weight plays less of a role because he'll die significantly earlier
-There's less room for Ike to maneuver, so it's easier for people to get inside his range.
Larger Stages:
+Ike can keep people at the range he wants them to be
+Ike can camp better against non-projectile users
+Ike's weight makes him live exponentially longer
-Ike kills at higher %s meaning he'll have to hit them 1-3 more times per stock
-Ike can be projectile camped
While I know that exact stage counterpicks are matchup based, It's typical that either Ike will tend to like large stages more or small stages more.
Hostility
Smash Ace
I prefer large stages over small ones. I like the room to move and space people, and I hate having my back to the ledge a lot. Large platform stages are even better, I love lylat, battlefield, and yoshi's story a lot. The only small stage I would counterpick is green greens since Ike can kill at ******** percents there.
Kirk
Smash Champion
I personally prefer the smaller stages, like Smashville, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Lylat Cruise(though the ledges kinda suck there), Pokemon Stadium, and to some extent Final Destination. FD is questionable against Ranged attackers, since theres nothing in the way to stop them.
So basically, the smaller the stage, the less room for them to run away from Ike. Ike likes to be up close and personal :D
So basically, the smaller the stage, the less room for them to run away from Ike. Ike likes to be up close and personal :D
Hostility
Smash Ace
Yea, honestly you could make a good argument for either. It basically comes down to personal preference, and the way you like to play ike, and the stages you feel more comfortable on.
Zink
Smash Champion
smaller stages sound yummy. snake can't grenade without blowing himself up? neatsauce. no wolf/falco laser spam? cool beans.
WeLikeIke
Smash Cadet
You're absolutely right on all points. I shouldn't have posted it here, yet I don't know where else to post it and I don't know how to tell a mod from a normal poster. And you are correct that Roith's is in direct competition with Kirk's not yours. Im sorry I made you think that I had something against you or this thread. I think what you're doing and what you've done in the past is and are fantastic. I certainly did not try nor intend to flame you nor this thread so if I came off that way, I don't see it and I am sorry. I am only bothered that the mods were available to sticky a good thread but failed to notice another good thread that is quite possibly better than a previously stickied thread. Before, it was easy to understand because nothing was getting attention.
Please forgive me.
It's hard for me to start because I feel like an Ike scholar and video reviewer and so I don't know what is common knowledge amongst competitive players. And I don't know what you already know of Ike. I'll say what I feel I noticed different between Kirks other videos and his videos with Azen.
I was particularly impressed more with Azen's ability to gimp an Ike than his ability to play it. I believe the major difference between Kirk and Azen, currently, is that Azen had a solid edge game and appeared to be very familiar with the edge of the stage. He was comfortable at all times around the edge. I think the only reason Kirk was able to beat him almost equally as often as he was beaten is because they were nearly equal on the floor game with Ike.
Things of note:
Fair off the stage to prevent recovers - probably most useful versus those with gimpable recoveries like Ike, Zamus, and Olimar and lightweights. Especially useful against players that are already far from the edge (as Kirk used to a secure a win vs Azen) and when combined with an edge hog against high and away players (as Azen used to secure a ko vs Kirk after Bairing his Aether)
Bair out of a block (when the enemy is behind) seems almost useless. They both used it extensively and I swear not one of them hit. Maybe Ftilt or Side B would be better? What can be used to turn around quickly after blocking an attack?
Edit: Apparently I was high or something the first time I viewed the videos. Bair out of shield worked about as many times as it didn't, with devastating effect when it landed. I guess the misses stood out more in my mind.
Aether is exceptional for avoiding spikes and meteors. SAF's really count for a lot when the opponent is aggressive.
Side B seems to be a somewhat decent recovery, mostly when you're very high up and the opponent can't tell if you intend to fly over them, fly into them, or fly into the ledge. Aether can be stopped with good timing from ON TOP of the stage. The only ways I can think of to avoid this is Aether lower, so that Ike himself never goes above the stage; Aether higher, so that Ike goes up so high the opponent's prediction is off and land on the stage; or Side B when you expect they want to stop your Aether mid flight (assuming you make the decision the moment you're knocked off the stage, not when it's too late).
Edit: After reviewing the videos, Aethering above the stage is always a bad idea unless 1, your opponent isn't on the stage waiting for you; 2, You're absolutely sure you're going to hit them with it; or 3, you damage % is lower enough that you won't be knocked hopelessly away from the stage, unable to recover and you deem it worth the risk. The challenge almost seems to be to find a way to nail an Aether as low as you can without missing in order to avoid retaliation.
Usmash kicks *** - great for edge guarding, tech chasing, protecting yourself against airborne attackers, dash -> surprise attacks, and best of all: ko's.
Fair is great for spacing and Fsmash, when used properly can help Ike control his opponent (if not, kill them). In one video Kirk pulls a come-from-behind win with a well-timed, somewhat charged Fsmash against Azen who had less damage on him.
Air dodge seems to slow knockback, I'm not sure if it does but both Azen and Kirk seem to get a kick out of using it.
Utilt hits enemies who are very close behind Ike, this is situationally useful.
AAA and Aerials seem to be Ike's bread and butter.
These are simply things I picked up at a glance. That it was an Ike ditto made it easier to notice techniques, yet harder to predict whether they'd be useful against characters with more versatile recoveries and low pre-lag attacks that punish high post-lag attacks.
We need more detail on Eruption use and Counter use. All I know of Eruption is it's SAF's after releasing the button and it's incredible vertical range (deals the same damage on all sides, not sure about the difference in knockback, however). It's someone useful for avoiding the knockback on a potentially deadly Uair.
Tripping is the bane of humanity.
you know what i've noticed the placement of aerials I don't know if it is the transition from melee to brawl. Also not many people use backairs. or grab Down Throw to Aether at low percentages. also you can counter alot of Up+B's when your opponents try to recover but I wouldn't know!
SmashRonin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2008
- Messages
- 12
Do you cstick Ike's aerials? Im generally asking those who have the game but those who played it I more than welcome your input.
Kirk
Smash Champion
I personally have never been a c-stick fan. Though it would probably help out my game a lot if I learned how to...the transition for me would be too awkward IMO.
Again this is a play style preference...do whatever feels right to you :D
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
Oni Andrew
Smash Apprentice
What's the translation for Snake's codec conversation on Ike?
SmashRonin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2008
- Messages
- 12
All he did was chase and grab again. If you watch your opponent or predict where they are going to go you can get off a few grabs.
Anyways Aho's Ike was a joy to watch, hes an aggressive edge guarder and he would have lost if it wasnt for that bomb at the end that popped him up, saving him from certain doom.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
lmao true. fight was too epic, but aho got lucky *** ****e
SCOTU
Smash Hero
on cstick aerials: there is a definitive answer to this. Use it for Aerials. It allows you to have more control over your motion while still doing your aerial of choice. It allows you to do faster aerials off the ground (while still maintaining aerial control). The best example for this is a shff'd fair while retreating. This is one of the most important zoning/ spacing techniques some characters can do (Ike included), and cannot be done to the precision/ distance/ speed that can be done with a direction and A.
While the transition may be an awkward one, I highly recommend that you switch to using the c-stick, while the game is still new and fresh.
@ match w/ Aho: I saw Aho trying something that I also tried earlier today: falling down w/ an eruption. Aho's basically frowndged him, which is the same thing that happened when I tried it. Is there any merit to trying this, or is it just a stupid maneuver that seems good at the time? (as in, anyone have any success using it?)
2 notes:
first: which moves can Ike ledgehop?
second: In teams, Earlier, we just did the most epic thing ever. Bowyer, my teamate, was playing as PT w/ Squirtle, and came up with the idea of sliding me across the stage charging an eruption w/ the water gun thing. The eruption ended up killing their last stock, and was completely epic. It' s like SWDing w/ an eruption.
While the transition may be an awkward one, I highly recommend that you switch to using the c-stick, while the game is still new and fresh.
@ match w/ Aho: I saw Aho trying something that I also tried earlier today: falling down w/ an eruption. Aho's basically frowndged him, which is the same thing that happened when I tried it. Is there any merit to trying this, or is it just a stupid maneuver that seems good at the time? (as in, anyone have any success using it?)
2 notes:
first: which moves can Ike ledgehop?
second: In teams, Earlier, we just did the most epic thing ever. Bowyer, my teamate, was playing as PT w/ Squirtle, and came up with the idea of sliding me across the stage charging an eruption w/ the water gun thing. The eruption ended up killing their last stock, and was completely epic. It' s like SWDing w/ an eruption.
SmashRonin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2008
- Messages
- 12
I kind of figured th cstick would be wort it for aerials. Using squirtle to push you while charging eruption sounds awesome. A video of it must be made.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
EPIC SCOTU
Friggen epic.
Guys, we need to look at these 2 discovered techniques/game mechanics and see how it helps Ike out.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148136
More on this tomorrow I'm heading to sleep
Friggen epic.
Guys, we need to look at these 2 discovered techniques/game mechanics and see how it helps Ike out.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148136
More on this tomorrow I'm heading to sleep
SCOTU
Smash Hero
As for the "sweeping", if anything, Ike's Dtilt is the only thing that will, and it's not that great of a move, and wouldn't be too applicable imo.
As for "scraping" - I'm pretty sure that's just autocancelling the attack before it comes out. If you land before a certain point in an aerial or after a different certain point, you'll just have normal landing lag (not aerial landing lag), this looks just like autocancelling to me.
As for "scraping" - I'm pretty sure that's just autocancelling the attack before it comes out. If you land before a certain point in an aerial or after a different certain point, you'll just have normal landing lag (not aerial landing lag), this looks just like autocancelling to me.
AlphaDragoon2002
Smash Ace
Just a heads up: Apparently (we still don't know for sure, but dmbrandon is reporting it as such) the US Brawl got patched and characters received balance changes. For example, Marth's F-air got nerfed.
So some stuff about Ike could possibly be changing, for better or worse.
So some stuff about Ike could possibly be changing, for better or worse.
Fizz-sama
Smash Ace
I read that and was hoping it was bs...just out of fear for something happening to Ike. I guess we'll find out.
Are you serious? That can make a lot of what i learned here irrelevant >.<
of course it could also be only minor changes....so we'll see what happens, im hoping for the best
thanks a lot for all the info in this thread by the way! Its really helpful ^^
of course it could also be only minor changes....so we'll see what happens, im hoping for the best
thanks a lot for all the info in this thread by the way! Its really helpful ^^
AlphaDragoon2002
Smash Ace
It could also not be true at all. So don't start worrying immediately.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
i doubt they'll change anything. It would make the two versions incompatible for play (unless they already are)
Very unlikely that anything changes, unless they never intended for us to play Wi-Fi with Japan... It's probably just dmbrandon saying something wrong again.
AlphaDragoon2002
Smash Ace
Yep, it's fake. Aho just got US Brawl and proved it with a video, Marth and Falco are exactly the same.
aquteen
Smash Ace
How hard is it to effectively use/land Ikes f-smash in competitive play and is it really that great?
yes it is good because it is strong!
Can you get a link to the video?
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