General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

I have two questions:

First, I need help performing a nana blizzard out of a dash dance. I assume it's possible for two reasons: A. I do a similar tactic with the ice block, input being dash forward, dash back, dash forward, iceblock, chase. B. I've gotten it to work rarely with a blizzard before. Is there a different timing for the blizzard chaser? Because I can't seem to get it consistently down.

The next question is regarding the Dash Bounce Desync. I've been attempting to add this to my arsenal. I can only seem to get it to work if I dash forward, wavebounce an IB with Nana, desync with Popo. It doesn't seem to work if I dash backwards. This presents a problem for me, because that would make the desync only viable for me out of a bair on retreat during game flow. Is it possible to do a DBD out of a reverse dash? I'd like to be able to perform it both ways regardless of initial starting direction, but am concerned it might be limited by Nana's pivoting problems.

 

[AllyKnight]

Which CG is best used against Wario/Snake?

 

[B0NK]

Which CG is best used against Wario/Snake?

It's all personal preference, I've seen almost every climber do it differently so I can't really suggest one =/

First, I need help performing a nana blizzard out of a dash dance. I assume it's possible for two reasons: A. I do a similar tactic with the ice block, input being dash forward, dash back, dash forward, iceblock, chase. B. I've gotten it to work rarely with a blizzard before. Is there a different timing for the blizzard chaser? Because I can't seem to get it consistently down.

There are two ways, one with the three dash motions that you describe and one with two. For the three dash motion one your describing you input blizzard at the same time you would ice block, I suggest just tilting your control stick down immediately after inputting the forward motion. (The 45 degree angle down)

The two dash one is back then foward, and you hold foward slighting longer than you would if you were trying to have popo do a move first. So back>forward (slightly longer)>down b. For a visual cue if you continue to hold down Popo will crouch while nana blizzards.

 

[00-Zero]

Which CG is best used against Wario/Snake?

ALL OF THEM!!
Nah but any IC main is gonna tell you it's all a matter of preference.
I like Popo d-throw to Nana f-throw on wario and snake. But with snake, I prefer to smash hobble. It's just way easier to me.


lolol NINJA'D but yeah.

 

[Black Mantis]

How well does ROB work as a teammate for IC's (by this I mean what potential strategies could the players develop based upon each character)?

 

[Smoom77]

If you think of teaming with an ICs, slap yourself. Tell the ICs main to go learn a good team character.

 

[FrozenHobo]

like g&w.

 

[Smoom77]

or dedede.

 

[FrozenHobo]

or marth.

 

[Smoom77]

or METAKNIGHT.

 

[FrozenHobo]

don't be a ***.

 

[00-Zero]

or METAKNIGHT

 

[Rubberbandman]

or Jigglypuff. :3

 

[r3d d09]

I actually went IC's in teams and did decent actually. If my partner was better, we would have most likely placed top 3. ic's mk is a legit team. i will stand by this. but no one is willing to test it out because they went IC's in teams a year ago and got destroyed.

go ahead and test it one tourney.

 

[Rubberbandman]

MK with anything is very likely to succeed, tbqh.

Until I changed my second, I just played Icies in teams, its really hard because I want to approach but I shouldn't.

 

[Smoom77]

Oh yeah, I team with a Samus/ROB (Xyrooo) and I used D3. We got fifth!

I'm still not going with the ICs is good in teams thing.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Oh yeah, I team with a Samus/ROB (Xyrooo) and I used D3. We got fifth!

I'm still not going with the ICs is good in teams thing.

It really depends on how patient you are.

 

[Sieguest]

I love how nobody has mentioned Toon Link.
>.>

 

[B0NK]

The only thing IC's have going for them in teams is that people have the mentality that approaching you is dangerous, which allows you to hold onto stocks for quite a long time. A really good attacking partner is pretty much necessary. While IC's can rack up damage fast with there aerials and CGs (also a reliable finisher) they become a handicap after they become SoPo that can't really support there teammate. And they are overall more gimpable in teams.

Also what is useful when chaingrabbing in teams to just watch when to opponent is going to save their partner and just smash them both away, this may be obvious but don't ever attempt to just rack as much damage as possible on one opponent when it can lead to the climbers being separated. (The only exception is when KOing the person you grabbed). IC's really only shine in teams is when the opponent's team only has one person left, because it becomes way to easy to limit the opponents options.

The problem with IC's in team is once you get someone who is good/confident at approaching IC's it becomes almost impossible to use them in teams. And of course any separation is even worst in teams because it is much harder to sync them together and much easier to kill Nana if your partner didn't notice the separation.

Basically, pick up another character for teams. Much more reliable and consistent plus less to worry about.

 

[Rubberbandman]

My Sopo in teams still lives it out and helps out some, just gotta know when to approach the opponents with Sopo. The most helping out you will do is with grabs, since they stop worrying about getting grabbed as much because nana is gone. You also make a handy saver.

 

[Prawn]

good opponents **** sopo fast, especially in teams

doesn't work IMO

get some notable doubles tourny wins and ill be convinced.

 

[PractiseCactus]

Hey, what does everyone think; squall hammer chain grab. If you were to hit them every time with nanas squall, could you regrab with popo? It would rack up damage and can move them around the stage faster while still in chain grab, if it were possible.

 

[PractiseCactus]

K guys, sorry about the double posting, but I think I may have found something. I have tested it on a level 9 run, jump, and walk, and he didn't get out of it. A grab release squall chain. Grab with popo, as soon as they release, squall with nana, and grab them during the squall. Rinse and repeat. It might be easier to do it with b stick, haven't tried it yet though.

EDIT: Have tested it on the characters from all sides of the weight table, the only way to get out is to DI from the throw, upwards. Don't overuse this, or the opposition will just di every time. Try doing it on low percentages as well.

 

[toobusytocare]

they can SDI the squall quite a bit

 

[B0NK]

SDI will get them out of it easily, and you even said simple DI upwards gets you out of it. You wouldn't be the first to try to use squall to CG, I remember someone trying to test it for switching from the higher platform of Battlefield to the lower platform....that didn't work out either.

Quick tip, assume any CG that involves hitting the opponent to be escapable since it can be SDI'd. The only real exception is hobbling but even that can be SDI'd to a point. And for any chaingrab that involves a grab release, you would be better of re-grabbing with the free climber from the grab release and even then if they aerial grab release it that won't be possible.

Stick to alt. CG's and hobbling.

 

[PractiseCactus]

If it's unexpected, it can be a good mix up. I've been playing against a fairly intelligent brawl player, and at low percents I can get it to work. But after that, he starts to anticipate it, and it's useless.

 

[B0NK]

If it's unexpected, it can be a good mix up. I've been playing against a fairly intelligent brawl player, and at low percents I can get it to work. But after that, he starts to anticipate it, and it's useless.

Or, you know, after you get the grab you can just kill them =/

There is really no need to mix it up after you get a grab unless Nana is not next to you/ dead. Once you get the grab, use the inescapable CG's, not the easily escapable ones. Seriously, just put the time and effort into learning the chaingrabs that are a guarantee stock.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Or, you know, after you get the grab you can just kill them =/

There is really no need to mix it up after you get a grab unless Nana is not next to you/ dead. Once you get the grab, use the inescapable CG's, not the easily escapable ones. Seriously, just put the time and effort into learning the chaingrabs that are a guarantee stock.

This.

Read it, understand it, and learn from it.

Just put out the effort to learn what you need to, not just make yourself look fancy and lose the match doing it.

 

[DeLux]

Is it possible to ISSDI MK's mach tornado enough to the point where you can always punish it? (i.e. ISSDI into a grab if they land on the same platform, or ISSDI into an uair if they land above you)

Obviously you would ISSDI during the hitlag of the nado, and chase after them if they retreat.

 

[B0NK]

I would imagine that the tornado would move faster than if you perfectly ISSDI, but I'm not 100% since I don't do any of that hacking stuff to know the SDI value for the tornado as well as how much "push" (can't think of the right word) that correlates to.

That and it would be quite hard to get consistent if possible but worth it in the end.

 

[DeLux]

I would imagine that the tornado would move faster than if you perfectly ISSDI, but I'm not 100% since I don't do any of that hacking stuff to know the SDI value for the tornado as well as how much "push" (can't think of the right word) that correlates to.

That and it would be quite hard to get consistent if possible but worth it in the end.

I'm not sure if the point is to necessarily keep up with the tornado. It's just to make the MK player spend more time in contact with your shield, thus making it harder for them to retreat. The difference might be enough to punish the landing lag. In theory. I think. haha

Could this also be a way to help some of the problem match ups, like ROB's down smash and the bump on Snake's FTilt? I'll try it out in tourney this weekend and see what happens

 

[B0NK]

Could this also be a way to help some of the problem match ups, like ROB's down smash and the bump on Snake's FTilt? I'll try it out in tourney this weekend and see what happens

It should help for those moves, the main difference being that ROB and Snake can't move during the hits unlike MK's tornado (Actually, what other retreating consecutive hit moves are there really???? Only other one I can think of is IC's Squall xD)

It's just more difficult to pull off then it looks....seeing as you mess up you roll or spotdodge into the consecutive hit move >.<

 

[Rubberbandman]

G&W's Bair comes to mind Bonk. But unless the MK doesn't know, they can just pull a "hit-and-run" nado on you, making it almost completely unpunishable.

 

[00-Zero]

If you can predict a ROB's d-smash, you can easily SDI it so you land right next to him and most notably, punish with a grab.
Also, I've been grabbing Snakes a lot lately after they use the first hit of f-tilt. But they're also not noting that you usually shouldn't do the second if the first hits the shield.

 

[DeLux]

It should help for those moves, the main difference being that ROB and Snake can't move during the hits unlike MK's tornado (Actually, what other retreating consecutive hit moves are there really???? Only other one I can think of is IC's Squall xD)

It's just more difficult to pull off then it looks....seeing as you mess up you roll or spotdodge into the consecutive hit move >.<

Spinning Kong, Whirling Fortress, Luigi Cyclone. Those are just specials as well. Pretty much any multihit move used for spacing (Lucas/Kirby/Olimar Nairs etc) might be doable as well, if not more so than the tornado.

Edit: scratch Naryu's love, it obviously doesn't move. What was I thinking?

 

[ch33s3]

The answer to all of the ISSDI questions above is yes. Unless MK JUST taps your shield and runs, you should be able to grab it or at least punish with something.

 

[00-Zero]

oh I'm all messed up. This wasn't even supposed to go here ><
Ultra super mega fail lolol

 

[00-Zero]

whoops lol. my computer f'd up and double posted that last message

 

[B0NK]

oh I'm all messed up. This wasn't even supposed to go here ><
Ultra super mega fail lolol

whoops lol. my computer f'd up and double posted that last message

GET 502'd SON

 

[00-Zero]

^ Exactly XD
But in all actuality, the first post was supposed to be in an entirely different thread lmao

Edit: I just keep getting ***** by 502 =(