Binx
Smash Master
I wish someone could show a slowed version of it with hitboxes and frame data, that would be sexy, okay I'll try and practice it some later, thanks.
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
choknater
Smash Obsessed
im learning how to slow down the game for spacies
dash attack in their wakeup is too good
i have to learn to not always chase them cuz theyre faster lol
instead go for stage control
but sometimes i gotta chase
ahhhh decision making
i got this
dash attack in their wakeup is too good
i have to learn to not always chase them cuz theyre faster lol
instead go for stage control
but sometimes i gotta chase
ahhhh decision making
i got this
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Randomly blizzarding ***** spacies hard. Also, I'm trying to wait for the shine and then FJ uair oos against less technical spacies, since they always go for the FJ ff'ed dair right after.
Yeah, that works, but sometimes they jump too far away after the shine because they just wanna get out. nair works well in that situation.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Nair oos just looks sexy.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Agreed. It's decently useful for getting out of combos, too, surprisingly.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
any move that can knock down a spacie is good hehe
even
the hammer hitbox of ice block
even
the hammer hitbox of ice block
shehehe11
Smash Apprentice
hey i'm new to ic's and i've been trying to learn basic chaingrabbing
unfortunately, everything i've read hasn't been to helpful in learning
stuff like down-throw down-air and other grabs. (like i don't know how
to do it, but i know what it looks like) is there any basic guide to chaingrabs?
theres only guides on the handoff, matchups, wobbling and non grab skillls
unfortunately, everything i've read hasn't been to helpful in learning
stuff like down-throw down-air and other grabs. (like i don't know how
to do it, but i know what it looks like) is there any basic guide to chaingrabs?
theres only guides on the handoff, matchups, wobbling and non grab skillls
GofG
Smash Champion
on fox/falco: you want to dthrow with popo, then press jump and down on the c-stick with nana so that nana short-hop dairs and it hits them. they will pop right in front of you and you can regrab and repeat. If you want, after grabbing them, jab with popo and then blizzard with nana; popo will still be in the lag from the jab so he won't interpret the "down"-b as dthrow.
on falcon/ganon, in addition to the above chaingrab, you can dthrow "reverse" dair, which is where you dthrow and have nana sh just like normal, but you make her DI WAY to the front before she dairs, so the opponent will pop BEHIND you. At high levels of play when your opponent knows how to DI, this is a great mixup because if they are DIing perfectly for the above chaingrab, this will pop them righgt into a grab. Also playing against a falcon or ganon who doesn't have frame-perfect SDI, this is an infinite.
third chaingrab of any importance is, you can dthrow, sh fair with nana. Time it so that the spike hits them the SECOND they get out of the throw, and they will be spiked onto the ground. You can techread them on reaction; they probably are going to be too surprised to tech it, so you just shield and wait for them to standup, getup attack, or roll, and grab them again and do one of the above 3.
on sheik and people with similar weights to sheik (link? idk the only character I play in this weightclass often is sheik), popo can just dthrow regrab until high percents. NOW THIS ONE THING YOU CAN DO IS, dsmash with nana while the throw is being performed, and it will hit and do lots of damage but since they are in the process of being thrown, it will have no knockback. You can make each repetition of the chaingrab do like 25% with blizzard + dsmash + dthrow.
also handoff also wobbling
that's everything important we can do from a grab and it all should be 0-death
on falcon/ganon, in addition to the above chaingrab, you can dthrow "reverse" dair, which is where you dthrow and have nana sh just like normal, but you make her DI WAY to the front before she dairs, so the opponent will pop BEHIND you. At high levels of play when your opponent knows how to DI, this is a great mixup because if they are DIing perfectly for the above chaingrab, this will pop them righgt into a grab. Also playing against a falcon or ganon who doesn't have frame-perfect SDI, this is an infinite.
third chaingrab of any importance is, you can dthrow, sh fair with nana. Time it so that the spike hits them the SECOND they get out of the throw, and they will be spiked onto the ground. You can techread them on reaction; they probably are going to be too surprised to tech it, so you just shield and wait for them to standup, getup attack, or roll, and grab them again and do one of the above 3.
on sheik and people with similar weights to sheik (link? idk the only character I play in this weightclass often is sheik), popo can just dthrow regrab until high percents. NOW THIS ONE THING YOU CAN DO IS, dsmash with nana while the throw is being performed, and it will hit and do lots of damage but since they are in the process of being thrown, it will have no knockback. You can make each repetition of the chaingrab do like 25% with blizzard + dsmash + dthrow.
also handoff also wobbling
that's everything important we can do from a grab and it all should be 0-death
Ive always thought this in my head. No DI reading, no dsmash timing, and they move less each regrab.
I do need to get better at the sopo CG. What level comp is good to practice on? I know they have different dsmash tendencies.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Level 4s have the weirdest DI, IIRC.
There are very few reasons to ever do dthrow -> dair or its variants on Sheik. The only times I think it would be good are when I want to turn around for some reason or if there's a low platform, like one on FoD, that would interfere with the Sopo dthrow CG.
There are very few reasons to ever do dthrow -> dair or its variants on Sheik. The only times I think it would be good are when I want to turn around for some reason or if there's a low platform, like one on FoD, that would interfere with the Sopo dthrow CG.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It's not that hard if you remember to just react to Sheik's DI instead of guessing which way she'll go.
Dthrow -> dair isn't bad per se on Sheik, but I don't see much reason to use a CG that can be escaped with good SDI on her when we have an inescapable one. Well, I suppose it could be useful if Sheik is at too high a percentage to just dthrow CG, but you can usually straight up KO her or put her in an edgeguard loop that will ker her eventually by then instead.
Dthrow -> dair isn't bad per se on Sheik, but I don't see much reason to use a CG that can be escaped with good SDI on her when we have an inescapable one. Well, I suppose it could be useful if Sheik is at too high a percentage to just dthrow CG, but you can usually straight up KO her or put her in an edgeguard loop that will ker her eventually by then instead.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
To what percent can Sheik be sopo chaingrabbed if platforms aren't involved? I feel like a level 9 CPU gets out around 65%, but I can remember exactly.
Lixivium
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2006
- Messages
- 2,689
I rarely have Sheik get out of D-throw -> D-air, even against people who know how to SDI chaingrabs(ie with Fox).
Personally speaking, I am much more likely to screw up a pure D-throw or D-smash -> D-throw chaingrab so I'd rather use one that's easier for me and racks damage faster (and not affected by platforms), even if it's more escapable.
But someone who can do the inescapable ones well should obviously go with that.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It's easier to dash grab if Sheik DIs away.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I like to JC grab just because it's habit, but I can understand how dash grab might be better (considering that's how Peach has to do it).
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I actually used to JC grab until somebody here (Smasher89, IIRC) suggested dash grabbing instead. I don't think it makes much of a difference at most percentages, but I find it significantly easier to dash grab to catch DI away at really low percentages for whatever reason.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
So yeah, for some reason, I suck at doing aerials OoS. I always roll or something.
Or I try to do a Nair OoS and grab.
It's annoying
Or I try to do a Nair OoS and grab.
It's annoying
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Sheiks get out of d-throw -> d-air all the time. I'm not positive (I've never played this match-up from Sheik's perspective) but I don't think Sheik neads sdi to escape.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yea. A matter of adjusting to shield stun in addition to being proficient at the timing for, like, AC'ed bair oos.
shehehe11
Smash Apprentice
another question from a newb...
so when popo is grabbing somebody, how do you make nana charge a smash or use different moves?
so when popo is grabbing somebody, how do you make nana charge a smash or use different moves?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Headbutt with Popo and input a move of your choice before Popo is back to neutral. Nana will do it, and Popo will continue to hold the dude.
Wow. It was only a few months ago that I was that guy....crazy.
I find wobbling hard, I never really practiced it and now I dont really know how to get it right every time. The stickied thread doesnt really give that much good advice. Is there any?
I find wobbling hard, I never really practiced it and now I dont really know how to get it right every time. The stickied thread doesnt really give that much good advice. Is there any?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Wobbling's easy. Too easy.
If you chaingrab before you go into it, it synchs itself for you. If not, you just have to be lucky as far as Nana's placement relative to you when you get the grab. I find blizzarding from the grab useful for setting up the interval between (and, obviously, for buffering the down command, if you use dtilt to wobble).
If you chaingrab before you go into it, it synchs itself for you. If not, you just have to be lucky as far as Nana's placement relative to you when you get the grab. I find blizzarding from the grab useful for setting up the interval between (and, obviously, for buffering the down command, if you use dtilt to wobble).
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
There's a pretty sizeable window when you grab someone during which you can input any directions, and Popo won't throw (because he's still in the lag from grabbing). You can hold forward during this time and go into the wobble immediately, assuming Nana's synched up properly. That's one trick.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You can use the blizzard technique for the ftilt variant also ... It allows you to make the timing more mechanical and less random.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
You can try learning with a metronome; I can't really recommend a bpm but it would be useful because mashing the A button too quickly can tire out your fingers.
Ah, my fingers don't get tired.
The bliz>ftilt version is easy, but it seems like wobbing isnt even very useful honestly. Can't ppl break out before 40? Then most chars can be killed with charged fsmash or usmash at like 80. Thats only 40 damage which is one or 2 chaingrabs. Hm.
So does the bliz make it THAT much easier to get out? What damage do you find it useful to even try vs someone who mashes? or vs someone who doesnt mash?
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Trust me, if you do it multiple stocks to death, you can start to lose your rhythm. >_>
Answer the other parts too!
Most importantly, what % is it worth trying to start a wobble vs someone who mashes and someone who doesnt?
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
If you start immediately from a synched grab or after a d-throw d-air, it's difficult to mash out. I don't know if it's possible to estimate the % because some people escape grabs faster than others; I see people cite 40% a lot, but I think in reality it's much lower than that. Blizzard makes it easier to escape though.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Another factor is how quickly you start the wobble. I used to always start it by almost immediately headbutting after grabbing with Popo, waiting a split second, inputting the first ftilt command right before doing Popo's second headbutt, and going into the rhythm from there. IIRC, this is a little harder than the method of waiting until Nana's whiffed grab animation ends before starting, but the first headbutt connects earlier and I think the opponent thus has less time to escape.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It depends on your opponent. Honestly, on a lot of smashers, including many really good ones, you can often start it at just about any percentage as long as you start the wobble reasonably quickly after grabbing. If your opponent does frantically button mash after getting grabbed, I'd say around 25-30% is reasonably safe.