Social General Ice Climber Chat

[PEEF!]

if you have church johns, why would that change when you go to college?!

you gonna ask jesus for a few years off?

Yeah, he makes me wait really long for my presents =P

pockyD smash debater, serious stuff rite there haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZn0Eqs3A-o

Linking us randomly to a 1.5yr old song? whys that?

 

[ChivalRuse]

This thread got funnier.

 

[PEEF!]

Just letting everyone know.

I have the most amazing

**most amazing**

combo conceptually on deck.

Ohhhmgawsh.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

This seems like a good time to ask PEEF why the heck he decided to go by PEEF.

 

[PEEF!]

Well.

First of all I'm not entirely sure.

Secondly before I forget lets remember to ask fly why he is named after a mushroom.

Okay, so basically when people would get utterly destroyed in a game, we would say they got slathered with peef. The word just sounded like something that would be the leftovers of an exploded pikachu. So eventually I just took on the name because I knew I would need one that would be able to fit in the 5 letters of my brawl tag.

Then I played melee and waddyaknow I can fit it cuz its actually 4 letters.

Terrible name, I know. Too late to change it now.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

When I was considering signing up on some Nintendo forum in 2007, I wanted a tag that was somehow related to Nintendo, but not in an immediately obvious way. I settled on a common name for the mushroom that the Mario mushrooms are based on in terms of appearance.

 

[PEEF!]

lol searching fly amanita brings up epic mushroom vids.

OK, so I am so frustrated with this combo I am going to set it free to the world for help

During a handoff, popo regrabs, dthrow nana fair, popo charge fsmash, nana spikes, nana lands and lcances, popo releases fsmash on missed tech, nana regrabs fthrows popo regrabs, continuing handoff as if nothing happened.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That would be insane. Lol.

 

[Nintendude]

I'm not sure if I ever got a good answer to getting the dash dance desynch to work. So....how exactly do you make it work every time?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that other than to know the timing for it. IIRC, there was something peculiar about the timing of it that used to cause me problems. I think that I used to input down-B too quickly after dash dancing; I'm not sure why this would be a problem, but my best guess is that Nana isn't able to execute blizzard during that sluggish turn-around animation that she goes through, so a very brief delay before hitting down-B might be necessary in order for Nana to actually do blizzard. My memory might be faulty, though.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea, you have to wait a little after the last dash forward before hitting down-b.

 

[Nintendude]

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that other than to know the timing for it. IIRC, there was something peculiar about the timing of it that used to cause me problems. I think that I used to input down-B too quickly after dash dancing; I'm not sure why this would be a problem, but my best guess is that Nana isn't able to execute blizzard during that sluggish turn-around animation that she goes through, so a very brief delay before hitting down-B might be necessary in order for Nana to actually do blizzard. My memory might be faulty, though.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Does the speed of your dash dance matter at all? You do it ridiculously fast but I can also get it to work with a slower dash dance, but not with any consistency.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

also holy **** whisky is amazing

****it, John. I wish I was that coherent while I'm drunk.

Whiskey is legit though.



I think the problem is, you play friendlies too much like they're tourney-matches. MEaning, you don't take risks and try to learn more. You play safe and try going for the optimal punish opportunity. I actually have the OPPOSITE problem, meaning, I play tourney-matches too much like they're friendlies. I often do weird, unreasonable desynchs that could get me punished hardcore but catch people off-guard or I just try something that I THINK might work instead of going with the proven-methods.

That's kind of why you and I have such different Ice Climbers from one another. Well, that and This and Domo(old school Japanese IC Main) affected me more as an IC main than any vids from Chu/Fly/Wobbles. Hence me enjoying desynching alot more than most ICs. Amazing, the vid is like 3-4 years old and I still find alot of those things impressive, even if there was no di involved in the combos.

I've started playing alot safer though. :/

The usual methods of shield-camping on characters like jiggs and Peach won't work because they are legitimately safe on block. Hell, it won't even work on Fox in they space correctly/can L-cancel.

Apparently, I'm good against Jiggs. I dunno why. I think the trick to the matchup is forcing her to full-jump and then immediately WDing under her and staying there. I'm alot better at theory than I am at gameplay though.

I honestly think that once you begin to learn to read people effectively, you'll be one of the best players in NC. You punish alot more effectively than I do. Don't let them give you crap about the chaingrab. It's not like it's inescapable.

Oh yeah, Double ICs double chaingrab on opposite ends of Stadium. yessssssssss.



In other news, the Dash-away->Nana Fsmash-> WD in ->React to their reaction-Desynch is LEGIT. I've scored alot of kills that way.

 

[ChivalRuse]

So vs Sheik at sub 60%, when she's SH FF fair walling, what do you guys think of running in, spotdodging the fair (letting Nana get hit), CC'ing the ftilt (or dsmash, below like 20%), running JC'ing grabbing her, while she's in the rest of the ftilt animation, and proceeding to zero - 75% her. If she's already around 70%, then one blizzard dthrow dair regrab blizzard dthrow upsmash/fsmash should end her.

 

[PEEF!]

So vs Sheik at sub 60%, when she's SH FF fair walling, what do you guys think of running in, spotdodging the fair (letting Nana get hit), CC'ing the ftilt (or dsmash, below like 20%), running JC'ing grabbing her, while she's in the rest of the ftilt animation, and proceeding to zero - 75% her. If she's already around 70%, then one blizzard dthrow dair regrab blizzard dthrow upsmash/fsmash should end her.

I like that, but a couple minor problems.

1: You might be sacrificing Nana if she has taken more damage than you.

2: Ftilt isn't crouch cancelable after like 50. Ftilt at 58 and stuff will pop you up.

Other than that it sounds good. Also, instead of ending it with a blizzard dthrow usmash, it would be better to just charge usmash or fsmash. Normally Fsmash because nobody really knows how to DI that right and if they do you can reverse. Plus Sheik is an easy edgeguard.

Also I have a hard time with the dthrow CG, I don't see how people don't mess that up. There must be some trick I don't know or some rule.

GofG, come to C.E.O. and team with me.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

GofG, come to C.E.O. and team with me.

What about me?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Assuming you're somewhere near the center of the stage, Nana shouldn't die unless she's taken at least like 80 damage. It's pretty rare for Nana to be more than 20% higher than Popo, though.

The parameters I gave were that Popo was below 60%. You can CC all of Sheik's tilts until around that %. As long as you go for the CC between 0 and 50%, you're pretty guaranteed to CC the tilt.

CC'ing is so underrated.

Also, I do charged smashes a lot. Charged upsmash -> uthrow/dthrow, charged dsmash -> fthrow/dthrow, or charged fsmash -> dthrow/uthrow depending on the situation.

 

[PEEF!]

I want to figure out exactly what that # is.

Also, how do you guys play on Brinstar, or do you ban it over RC (assuming P4 maps.)

 

[ChivalRuse]

I've never been taken to Brinstar or Cruise, but I'd ban Brinstar against a Jiggs/Peach/Doc and go Fox if I got taken to Cruise.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I'd much rather go to Cruise than Brinstar.

I think the best way to play Cruise after leaving the ship is to constantly stay ahead of your opponent on the next section of the stage.

Map flow is like:

Ship -> Platform thingies and then it splits more or less between the pendulum and the carpets. I feel like the platform section after the boat and Carpet/pendulum are the only sections you have to worry about, if you can avoid confrontation on those parts or at least control where ever you are until the next segment comes up, I think you'll be fine. The section between the pendulum and the boat loop is like one long neutral stage and the boat is a nuetral within itself. After that, it's pretty much about being ahead of them and stopping them from progressing. I kinda feel like Cruise is a mobile Stadium.

I'd much rather go to Rainbow cruise than Brinstar or Floats.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Brinstar isn't too bad when the lava/acid isn't acting up though.

Floats is pretty dumb.

 

[PEEF!]

I need someone with serious brinstar exp. to talk about it.

I always get taken to one or the other of those maps.

 

[Nintendude]

On RC when you get to the vertical section with the magic carpets, the best thing to do is stay very low and try to poke your opponent with Uairs. Don't take a chance doing anything risky unless you have a clear opening, because a small slip up and Nana falls to her death. When you get to the swinging platform part, I like to get to the solid platform on the right as soon as it spawns. The rest of the stage is straightforward, and it's actually really easy to get low % kills at the top section.

I think ICs actually do fairly well on RC if you know when you have to play it safe. I'm not really sure which matchups I should ban RC and which matchups I should ban Brinstar though. I haven't had any tourney experience with the new stage list, and with the old one I always got taken to Mute City.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

On RC when you get to the vertical section with the magic carpets, the best thing to do is stay very low and try to poke your opponent with Uairs. Don't take a chance doing anything risky unless you have a clear opening, because a small slip up and Nana falls to her death. When you get to the swinging platform part, I like to get to the solid platform on the right as soon as it spawns. The rest of the stage is straightforward, and it's actually really easy to get low % kills at the top section.

I actually completely forgot about that part.

Yeah, stay low on the carpets. I mean, like edge of the bottom of the TV screen low.


I think spacies(Fox/Falcon) usually take you cruise and floaties(Jiggs/PEach) usually take you to Brinstar.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfawiHMAy7Y#t=1m06s

Chu does a Dthrow reverse dair into an attempted handoff.

This is from 3 years ago.

Leading the metagame lol

 

[Kyu Puff]

I *think* Wobbles found it before that. I could be wrong though.

Edit -- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=76962

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

effffffff...

lol

 

[choknater]

wow wobbles is too good LOL

june 2006 is when i barely started getting more active in tournaments

 

[PEEF!]

June 2009 was when I first started getting more active in tournaments =/

 

[choknater]

did u go to genesis?

 

[PEEF!]

LOL no. Event 52-2

I only started playing Melee Feb. 2009. Brawl throughout 2008.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

June 2006 was when I just started l-cancelling and didn't even know about smashboard's existence. Mostly because I had just graduated and was living at my mom's house with no internet.

I didn't start maining IC until late 07/early 08

 

[Binx]

I agree with Fly, I don't know exactly how to explain it, on a side note I was doing some very fast sexy ones today as well as some Nana only pivot iceblocks into popo combos, I need to get some cords so I can record.

 

[Kyu Puff]

In my techskill vid I have a lot of really fast pivot jump ice blocks in a row and a lot of other cool stuff... I wish I would finish but I kinda stopped working on it since the deadline's past.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I hate how I always shield when my opponent's going for a grab, and I always wavedash when he's attacking. Goddammit!

 

[Binx]

I've decided I'm going to start getting technical, I've been playing the game for like 6 years now and I'm getting and itch to actually practice omg.

So here are things I can do, and things I can do sometimes

I wavedash and L cancel nearly 100% perfectly, I waveland very smoothly on all tournament legal stages. As a side note if you haven't tried short hop perfect waveland forward tilts give it a shot, It works just like Ganon's.

I can roll, spot dodge, short hop fast fall and dash dance and grab desynch. I can pivot forward smashes about 30% of the time, forward tilts about 15%, failed ones come out as a two climber dash attack leading to getting *****. I can stay continuously desynched, I never really learned wavedashing in the middle of them but I don't think it would really benefit me a great deal.

Okay so some thing I want to learn is faster desynchs, I don't care about difficulty, I guess i should learn the handoff, I can wobble semi consistently but most tournaments ban it now so I guess it would be kind of superfluous.

So there we have it, I've been out of the game a while as far as new techniques and stuff go, any tricks you guys wanna share with me?

Thanks all.

 

[ChivalRuse]

To jump start your ability to do the handoff consistently, you should know that you have to time Nana's grab such that her grab hitbox is out when the green impact ring from Popo's dthrow appears. In other words, you have to start her grab a couple frames before you see the ring. The best way to judge when this will happen is to observe how Popo slams them on the ground and adjust your timing according to how quickly he goes through the animation. Also, it's helpful to JC grab.

 

[PEEF!]

To jump start your ability to do the handoff consistently, you should know that you have to time Nana's grab such that her grab hitbox is out when the green impact ring from Popo's dthrow appears.

Poo poo advice.

=[

Someone didn't read my thread.

green flash lasts 9 frames. Nana grab comes out in 7 or 8. Green flash is a bad way to judge. Some characters also are grabable sooner or later in relation to the flash. Marth, for example, requires you to grab at least 4 frames BEFORE the flash. The timing windows for regrabs are also not maximized when using visual cues, especially the flash. They are only maximized through the metronome method and painful hours of drilling experience.

Using a metronome to practice like I detailed in the thread has made me one of the most consistent handoff-men around. I don't use it anymore, but I always had the constant beat in the background and now the timing is engrained. I had a 4 hour session yesterday against a peach, fox, and Falcon, and I did probably 80 handoff regrabs and missed 2, both forward throws, one on the fox and one on the Falcon.

This might be a little boastful, but I think I would beat anyone except Wobbles in a "handoff-off" including Fly. 0.0 Fly ur a trillion times better than me but I think I handoff more consistently looking at your videos.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea, I know the timing for different characters varies in relation to the green flash/ring - but it's a good starting place to find the incremental differences. Anyway, I've spent enough hours practicing that most of the time I depend on instinct. However, I find the flash to be a useful marker for adjusting the timing, especially for the characters with tighter windows.

 

[PEEF!]

The only visual cue I use is their distance to the ground, or a certain frame that catches my eye.