Social General Ice Climber Chat

[TheRealFluid]

Not really related to the current goings of the thread, but do you think we could somehow start something to get ice climbers DLC for smash 4? I cried myself to sleep once I found out they didn't make it. Call this idea stupid if you want, because it probably is.

I really do think Sakurai finds Ice Climbers a pain to balance/design and he would rather just keep them straight out of the game. If they do somehow get released, I expect desyncs/grab comboes to be out of their arsenal.

 

[941]

I seem to recall the only reason they were cut was because of the technical limitations of the 3DS and nothing to do with gameplay/balance. If it weren't for the desire to maintain the same roster for Wii U and 3DS they would be in the game.

 

[Samwisely]

I'm having a hard time approaching during matches. I've been going over Choknaters guide, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Even though I'm trying to create openings, I don't feel like I'm really getting anywhere and it's frustrating. My punishes are getting much better, but if I can't make anything happen, then it's not helping me.

 

[S2rulL]

Not really related to the current goings of the thread, but do you think we could somehow start something to get ice climbers DLC for smash 4? I cried myself to sleep once I found out they didn't make it. Call this idea stupid if you want, because it probably is.

its stupid.

 

[S2rulL]

I'm having a hard time approaching during matches. I've been going over Choknaters guide, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Even though I'm trying to create openings, I don't feel like I'm really getting anywhere and it's frustrating. My punishes are getting much better, but if I can't make anything happen, then it's not helping me.

if you need a decent approach, dashdance desyncs are pretty safe once you get them down, and also just wd>jab leads into a lot of stuff

 

[DRWUMBO]

Right so if the ice climbers were dlc they would just be for wii u, like mewtwo, right?

 

[S2rulL]

Right so if the ice climbers were dlc they would just be for wii u, like mewtwo, right?

yeah
but it's not gonna happen probably
sorry bud

 

[R.I.P.]

Mewtwo is also on 3DS.

 

[Smog]

I also just found a weird desync. I'm not sure if its all platform stages, and it seems either useless or highly situational. If you run and jump almost onto a platform and waveland backwards from where you landed, if you time it right nana will wavedash off the platform while Popo air dodges. Nana can immediately get a move out and then Popo. Maybe for a fake engage to a desync, but still seems pretty useless.

I also found if you time it right and land both ice climbers just by the edge of a platform and wavedash off backwards, Nana's move gets edge cancelled, or so it seems. And only Popo uses the ice block (and he seems to always turn around then use it). I feel this may be known though.

Okay I think I figured it out. If you waveland backwards off a platform at all Popo always fall off first and you can use a move at the point where he is off and Nana is still on. Then Nana's move just gets edge cancelled and they desync. So as long as you time it right you can desync by wavelanding off a platform backwards at any point. It just is easier if you land closer to the edge because you can press B immeditaly. Sorry if this is known, I feel like it is. You can do a Nanapult pretty fast by doing this though.

Sorry if you saw this, I've been editing an old post not even realizing that it was on the other page.

 

[Samwisely]

if you need a decent approach, dashdance desyncs are pretty safe once you get them down, and also just wd>jab leads into a lot of stuff

I've been working at adding in wd>jab and wd>ftilt. When should I use a dashdance desync over spotdodge or roll desyncs?

 

[S2rulL]

I've been working at adding in wd>jab and wd>ftilt. When should I use a dashdance desync over spotdodge or roll desyncs?

if you're at a distance from your opponent, dash dance desync, but if you're up close and need to get some space roll desync. however, you can mix this up with spot dodge desyncs as well

 

[S2rulL]

so the match i mentioned between myself and Ducker was uploaded to YouTube. i can never beat this guy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCmbAIlX4Xc

 

[Smog]

so the match i mentioned between myself and Ducker was uploaded to YouTube. i can never beat this guy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCmbAIlX4Xc

I know you probably know this already, but all of the grabs you get, you hesitate for a reallly long time. Its as if every time you throw out a grab you are surprised it actually grabs them. When you throw out a grab you gotta be confident it is gonna hit and be ready for what you plan to do.

If anyone can give me advic on the following stuff that would be helpful. I played a Falco that would always come from above and shine me. I just shielded and tried to grab, but everytime he just shield poked me and got a combo. What do I do when Falco is coming down from above? Also what do I do against laser camping. It kills my wavedash approaches, and coming the air as iceys doesn't seem to bright. Also how do I deal with Peach's floating? Everytime she floats I just get clueless.

 

[OddishGuy]

Okay I think I figured it out. If you waveland backwards off a platform at all Popo always fall off first and you can use a move at the point where he is off and Nana is still on. Then Nana's move just gets edge cancelled and they desync. So as long as you time it right you can desync by wavelanding off a platform backwards at any point. It just is easier if you land closer to the edge because you can press B immeditaly. Sorry if this is known, I feel like it is. You can do a Nanapult pretty fast by doing this though.

I've been using this with aerials, but the iceblock usage seems really cool and even plausible for edgeguard mix-ups.

And the Solo Nana WD off platform to Nana Blizzard is something I've never seen before, but I really like it. It's kind of hard to time and messing up leaves you super vulnerable though. Probably best for FoD, Yoshi's, or Stadium where the low platform height will allow Popo to recover from the airdodge faster. I really like this though; seems like a nice way to get a blizzard wall up while approaching.

If anyone can give me advic on the following stuff that would be helpful. I played a Falco that would always come from above and shine me. I just shielded and tried to grab, but everytime he just shield poked me and got a combo. What do I do when Falco is coming down from above? Also what do I do against laser camping. It kills my wavedash approaches, and coming the air as iceys doesn't seem to bright. Also how do I deal with Peach's floating? Everytime she floats I just get clueless.

With Falco you want to intercept with Upairs. A Falco who can get the L-cancel on Dair-shines consistently can be really safe if you just sit in shield. AC SH Upair is decent in neutral if they're camping platforms and continuously approaching with Dair/Shine. FJ Upairs are a little more aggressive but you can get the Falco into a bad spot if they're trying to camp top platform and if you have a good read you can hit confirm into a nice combo.
I don't really have a good answer for lasers. Approaching with WD shield can be decent, and Wavesmashes can work since Falco can only stop one of you with a laser.

One option against Peach's float is the squall hammer. It's silly, but it's decently safe if unexpected and damage is damage. AC SH bair can catch a Peach if she's too low or if you read an attack coming in.

 

[Smog]

Okay thanks for the tips on Falco and Peach.
I also found another thing about the desync. If you want to seperate them on platforms you can jump straight up and airdodge/wavedash down and nana goes on the platform, and Popo goes on the ground. I just found out though it really on works on Yoshi's from the back part of the edge platforms because Nana doesn't want to go to far away... It could work on FoD sometimes I guess. You can short hop blizzard to cover alot of area.

Also can anyone help me out with jab grab? Does it only work at certain percents on certain characters? Everytime I do it to a lvl 7 Samus she just goes up and I can't grab.

 

[TheRealFluid]

Hungrybox played and won against 3 Ice Climbers (Chudat in Winners, Fly Amanita and Nintendude in losers) this Apex. Prior to the tournament, Hbox beat Wobbles at Forte. Does anyone think the matchup needs to be reevaluated or did Hbox figure out this matchup.

 

[S2rulL]

Hungrybox played and won against 3 Ice Climbers (Chudat in Winners, Fly Amanita and Nintendude in losers) this Apex. Prior to the tournament, Hbox beat Wobbles at Forte. Does anyone think the matchup needs to be reevaluated or did Hbox figure out this matchup.

i've been saying this for ages. there's no chance the matchup is good for icies when all they do is get battered around on or off stage because of puff's amount of jumps and aerial control

 

[FlamingForce]

I agree with you, but I think newer players should still practice this stuff just to gain better understanding of how the character works and better control over all, even if they won't use most of this stuff in real play.



with nana you can't WD too far in front of popo. It's kind of a shorter incremental motion.



really work on dash dance desyncs, wavelands, ledgedashing, and your basic dthrow->dair CGs and just comboing in general.

I recommend just sitting down for about 30 minutes a day and practicing fluid movement, making desyncs second nature, and practicing basic combos.
As you get more comfortable with the basics, start reading through some of the topics here, watching IC tech videos, etc. and just incorporate some of that stuff into your practice regiment.

Whenever I try to do popo action > nana wd forward + action my Nana just ends up sliding too far ahead of Popo, doing nothing :\

 

[SpiderMad]

@ Fly_Amanita Any update on this? http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2rkczd/light_powershield_possibly_new_technique/cnh6s9v

 

[shuall]

Wobbles bringing out that new bracket cancelling tech at apex.

 

[TheRealFluid]

Wobbles bringing out that new bracket cancelling tech at apex.

Too soon

 

[cemo]

When you Ice Block onto a platform, how much landing lag is there? 4 frames? Something else?
I am trying to speed up my platform game.

 

[SHIP]

When you Ice Block onto a platform, how much lag is there? 4 frames? Something else?
I am trying to speed up my platform game.

I'm not entirely certain what you mean but I have a feeling that you are stuck in the entirety of the animation which lasts 59 frames.

 

[cemo]

I'm not entirely certain what you mean but I have a feeling that you are stuck in the entirety of the animation which lasts 59 frames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV3QNpesRYo&feature=youtu.be&t=1m7s

Sorry for not being clear enough, edited my post to say landing lag.

 

[SHIP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV3QNpesRYo&feature=youtu.be&t=1m7s

Sorry for not being clear enough, edited my post to say landing lag.

Oh well when you do the thing where the animation gets cancelled (when the ice block disappears) then I believe you would only be subject to the normal 4 frames of landing lag.

 

[cemo]

Oh well when you do the thing where the animation gets cancelled (when the ice block disappears) then I believe you would only be subject to the normal 4 frames of landing lag.

Yeah, I was just looking for confirmation on the landing lag, thanks.
I've been trying to waveland onto platforms and getting hit by getup attacks or neutral getup/tech shine, so I'm just looking for alternatives.

 

[tauKhan]

@ Fly_Amanita Any update on this? http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2rkczd/light_powershield_possibly_new_technique/cnh6s9v

Yeah, lps projectiles with z: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-ask-anyone-frame-things-thread.313889/page-17

 

[Smasher89]

One thing i notice every ICplayer did wrong against hbox is shielding in fear, instead of like waveshield to pressure (shield an aerial, then throw out hitboxes like upsmash or a long lasting aerial to go for trades). Puff has one tool, if you trade with it youll win. Dair is fast OoS thats decent at trading too.

Not sure if fly vs amsa were recorded this time, but last time there was a notticeable lack of uptilt, which is a great move at shutting down yoshis jump.

 

[Genghis_Connor]

Sup, Ice Climbers? Just picked up this character. They're unbelievably fun, if crazy difficult to use. Anyone have advice for an ICs main just starting out? What do I work on in the lab first?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm not a big fan of utilt in general, at least outside of 1.00, and most of the time I use it nowadays is either a bad call due to ancient muscle memory or due to the opponent making a bad decision that leads to it being okay. Hitting somebody with it only for them to SDI out and punish me gets obnoxious and makes me feel like Zelda.

 

[FlamingForce]

I like it as a desynced anti air option to toss out every so often, even with superb sdi it tends to keep folks in place long enough to put some good hurt on them.

 

[Skymin50]

Holy **** how do you do Wobbling? I've tired looking at the guides Wobbles posted but man I can't get this **** down.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I grab the CPU in training, set on Human so it makes no inputs, headbutt, jab once, and try to make it a tilt. How do you do them consistently?

 

[Genghis_Connor]

Holy **** how do you do Wobbling? I've tired looking at the guides Wobbles posted but man I can't get this **** down.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I grab the CPU in training, set on Human so it makes no inputs, headbutt, jab once, and try to make it a tilt. How do you do them consistently?

Practice like a ************. I started three days ago and I'm only now starting to get it down. Look at video tutorials or gifs or whatever to get an understanding of the timing, then try to do it over and over again til you get it for yourself.

 

[941]

Holy **** how do you do Wobbling? I've tired looking at the guides Wobbles posted but man I can't get this **** down.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I grab the CPU in training, set on Human so it makes no inputs, headbutt, jab once, and try to make it a tilt. How do you do them consistently?

If the problem is that you D-throw when you try to do a D-tilt with Nana, try sliding the control stick down as you press "A" for the first pummel. If you're able to start the alternating D-tilt/Pummels but they aren't staggered enough to maintain hitstun, it's usually because the first D-tilt came out too late. If you can start the wobble but can't keep it going just practice your rhythm.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm not a big fan of utilt in general, at least outside of 1.00, and most of the time I use it nowadays is either a bad call due to ancient muscle memory or due to the opponent making a bad decision that leads to it being okay. Hitting somebody with it only for them to SDI out and punish me gets obnoxious and makes me feel like Zelda.

agreed. though sometimes i request to play on a 1.0 setup when i'm playing against a fastfaller

 

[Smog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLZ1322sgY - Top 10 insane Wobbles plays
Man, Wobbles is truly amazing. I played Borp at my local last week and he was being puff and just messing with me lol. I wish I had known about the charge smash to grab. I kept dropping the wobble like an idiot when he rested.

 

[Kyu Puff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLZ1322sgY - Top 10 insane Wobbles plays
Man, Wobbles is truly amazing. I played Borp at my local last week and he was being puff and just messing with me lol. I wish I had known about the charge smash to grab. I kept dropping the wobble like an idiot when he rested.

for the record...

http://smashboards.com/threads/rest-and-shield-break-punishing-strategies.206995/#post-5962651

it's pretty old but for some reason nobody has seen it before

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I think there are even better rest punishes. I need to work out the details, though. It's on my big list of things to do this week.

 

[KingKirb]

I think there are even better rest punishes. I need to work out the details, though. It's on my big list of things to do this week.

this man is a hero

 

[Absolome]

So against a Falco who has to l-cancel shine down perfectly every time, is it pretty much always a better bet to jump into the dair with an up air? If it trades you can tech the stage and won't get combo'd to death which seems a lot better than risking the shield poke.

Practice like a mother****er. I started three days ago and I'm only now starting to get it down. Look at video tutorials or gifs or whatever to get an understanding of the timing, then try to do it over and over again til you get it for yourself.

Set a metronome to 200-210 bpm and listen to it while practicing, make sure you're sliding the stick over smoothly for the ftilt so you don't get a nana fmsmash. AFAIK the jab is actually not required, you can wobble from grab-pummel-ftilt, which is better because it doesn't give people a chance to mash out at high percents. It can be kind of difficult to get the start down but once you do, setting up into it is pretty easy.

On the other hand some people just cannot get it down, there's a local ICs player here who never wobbles because he can't do it consistently so it's not the best grab punish for him to go for. And of course there's also Fly