Social General Ice Climber Chat

[john!]

 

[TheRealFluid]

I feel like I'm the only IC player who is 100% behind wobbling. Friendly? Imma wobble you. School tourny? Imma wobble you.

I used to feel guilty but I decided I suck anyway, and it's generally the only way I can really get a stock. I'm not one of those people who's like "I wobble but I think it's a dumb tactic that shouldn't be in the game." If anything, extend their grab range and make it better IMO.

lol.

Wobbling in friendlies are kinda silly, since you should focus on other aspects of play that you lack. You mention wobbling is the only way you can get a stock? Perhaps you should focus on other kill potential during friendlies.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Wobbling in friendlies are kinda silly, since you should focus on other aspects of play that you lack. You mention wobbling is the only way you can get a stock? Perhaps you should focus on other kill potential during friendlies.

Depends. I think its good to expiriment, but you should try to practice like you would play in tournment to tighten your serious play.
Its a little different when playing against casual players though.

 

[Smog]

I'm all about the wobble, but doing it doesn't make you a better ice climbers player I feel. When you watch fly or wobbles their neutral game is insane because they don't get to start a wobble very often in such high level play. When you get a better neutral, you get better at neutral and it opens up more wobble opportunities so you also get better at wobbling. It is a win-win except you lose, but I'm sure we have all lost enough as icey mains we don't care at this point.
We just love their style.

 

[Smog]

Is there any use to dash dance and have nana moonwalk behind you?
I'm sure its known but I did a moonwalk desync that has popo start it.

 

[Ephenilliac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ3DzHTdwTA would any of the continuous desyncs in this vid be helpful for tournament matches?

 

[DerfMidWest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ3DzHTdwTA would any of the continuous desyncs in this vid be helpful for tournament matches?

Its important to know how to do these things. In real play, you won't use them the same way, but it's important to learn stuff like this to add tools to your arsenal and to help learn to control the character properly.

 

[Smog]

Its important to know how to do these things. In real play, you won't use them the same way, but it's important to learn stuff like this to add tools to your arsenal and to help learn to control the character properly.

I can't seem to wd to ice block with nana, but I can do it really easy with popo

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Most of the content in that video is extremely impractical. The projectile stuff tends to be a bit more viable, although telling Nana to do something like WD forward -> blizzard is bad when you can just have her short hop forward and blizzard. I dislike the stuff involving Nana WDing forward in general.

 

[941]

Hi, I'm relatively new to Ice Climbers and Melee (I've only been playing for a few months) and I wanted to ask about methods for practicing tech skill. I'm comfortable with Wavedashing, SHFFLing, and most of the common desyncs, but I wanted to ask what other tech skill is important for ICs and what are the best ways to practice?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Most of the content in that video is extremely impractical. The projectile stuff tends to be a bit more viable, although telling Nana to do something like WD forward -> blizzard is bad when you can just have her short hop forward and blizzard. I dislike the stuff involving Nana WDing forward in general.

I agree with you, but I think newer players should still practice this stuff just to gain better understanding of how the character works and better control over all, even if they won't use most of this stuff in real play.

I can't seem to wd to ice block with nana, but I can do it really easy with popo

with nana you can't WD too far in front of popo. It's kind of a shorter incremental motion.

Hi, I'm relatively new to Ice Climbers and Melee (I've only been playing for a few months) and I wanted to ask about methods for practicing tech skill. I'm comfortable with Wavedashing, SHFFLing, and most of the common desyncs, but I wanted to ask what other tech skill is important for ICs and what are the best ways to practice?

really work on dash dance desyncs, wavelands, ledgedashing, and your basic dthrow->dair CGs and just comboing in general.

I recommend just sitting down for about 30 minutes a day and practicing fluid movement, making desyncs second nature, and practicing basic combos.
As you get more comfortable with the basics, start reading through some of the topics here, watching IC tech videos, etc. and just incorporate some of that stuff into your practice regiment.

 

[Tomber]

About wobbling in friendlies and stuff. I think wobbling is something that is important to practice, just like pretty much anything else that might be useful in a real match (movement/neutral/desyncs/game-understanding). I don't really think you should say you get good/bad by focusing on wobbling/neutral game. Both are aspects of your game you can work on to improve as a player overall. If you're excellent at wobbling but your neutral game is only decent then sure work on your neutral game. If your neutral is great on the other hand but you can't get your wobbling going in actual tournament matches then practice your wobbling. I'm able to recognize situations where I can get a wobble going better than any other player because I'm so used to it thanks to friendlies. Compere that to like Wobbles who goes for hand off shenanigans when he gets a grab against a lower level player. Sure, he gets away with some cool stuff sometimes by doing that, but when I afterwards see how much he struggles with his wobbling set ups when he actually decides to go for them later in the tournament against better players then I feel it would have been better if he had focused more on the optimal stuff (wobbling) and less on the fancy stuff (mid-stage hand offs). That is, if you're playing to win and are trying to improve as a player in this sense. At this point I don't really think Wobbles care that much about winning anymore. I think he rather wants to entertain people. Which is something I respect completely. But if his goal was to win tournaments then I think he is focusing on the wrong stuff (not saying that you shouldn't practice stuff like hand offs). I think you should always practice the stuff you're worst in order to improve at a fast rate.

Anyway, I just came by to share this match with you. It's me vs. Dev at BEAST 5. I get to do some cool 20XX ICs stuff and I think it's a entertaining set overall.
http://youtu.be/xvN39FLGSZw

 

[S2rulL]

in the words of my good friend from my region @Ducker ; "if you're gonna wobble in tourney, wobble EVERYWHERE."

 

[Ephenilliac]

Can anyone help explain ledgedash? Feel like I should know this for my tourney tomorrow but I don't ;;

 

[S2rulL]

Can anyone help explain ledgedash? Feel like I should know this for my tourney tomorrow but I don't ;;

when on the ledge, gently nudge your stick downwards>jump>airdodge back onto the stage
viola, ledge dash

 

[941]

really work on dash dance desyncs, wavelands, ledgedashing, and your basic dthrow->dair CGs and just comboing in general.

I recommend just sitting down for about 30 minutes a day and practicing fluid movement, making desyncs second nature, and practicing basic combos.
As you get more comfortable with the basics, start reading through some of the topics here, watching IC tech videos, etc. and just incorporate some of that stuff into your practice regiment.

Thanks a lot for the advice. It's very helpful because there isn't much of a scene where I live and I can't practice very much against other people, so the only part of my game that I can really work on consistently is tech skill.

 

[Smog]

I went to my first real tourney, Man on a Ledge, and it was soooooooooo fun. I got to play Cave Dweller in tourney and he 4 stocked me twice. I think I only did 16% first game, but I switched to puff 2nd game which I'm regretting because I should have just played iceys to practice. It was quite the experience seeing a bunch of setups and people just chilling and playing melee. Everyone there was super nice also, and I even teamed up with a really nice guy who was a really good Marth, and it was his first tourney also. Overall it was just an awesome experience and I'm definitely going again.

 

[R.I.P.]

I had trouble with ledge dashing when I tried to use the button to do the jump. Now I do it like down on control stick, up on control stick, normal wave dash (with Y button) and it's a lot easier.

 

[Smog]

You should only be jumping once. You drop down, jump, and airdodge back on stage.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Can anyone help explain ledgedash? Feel like I should know this for my tourney tomorrow but I don't ;;

Try to practice it a lot before going to tournament with it because you'll probably SD a lot early on.

I went to my first real tourney, Man on a Ledge, and it was soooooooooo fun. I got to play Cave Dweller in tourney and he 4 stocked me twice. I think I only did 16% first game, but I switched to puff 2nd game which I'm regretting because I should have just played iceys to practice. It was quite the experience seeing a bunch of setups and people just chilling and playing melee. Everyone there was super nice also, and I even teamed up with a really nice guy who was a really good Marth, and it was his first tourney also. Overall it was just an awesome experience and I'm definitely going again.

Yo MoaLs are pretty tight.
A lot of solid players from our region frequent them and its a great place to learn.

 

[cemo]

I still SD fairly often on ledgedashes, this is something you should practice every time you play. Typically to get "optimal" invincibility you want to press down and into the stage, so you don't have to change the stick position when you jump and airdodge. If you're getting hit out of it, your timing isn't tight enough.

You can mix it up for shorter and longer wavelands, but you might not get as much invincibility. I like to do a waveland right onto the edge of the stage since people try to cover the ledgedash a lot.

 

[R.I.P.]

You should only be jumping once. You drop down, jump, and airdodge back on stage.

Huh. It has the same effect (unless I'm missing something), and if anything having my finger already on the Y button just helps me wave dash away faster.

 

[Smog]

Huh. It has the same effect (unless I'm missing something), and if anything having my finger already on the Y button just helps me wave dash away faster.

I think I am misunderstanding what you mean. Do you double jump after you drop ledge then airdodge? If you do it is pretty easy to punish. Or do you drop and jump with joystick, air dodge on stage and wavedash away with y? The point of a ledge dash is to almost immediately be able to attack from the ledge that is not a getup attack.

 

[R.I.P.]

I think I am misunderstanding what you mean. Do you double jump after you drop ledge then airdodge? If you do it is pretty easy to punish. Or do you drop and jump with joystick, air dodge on stage and wavedash away with y? The point of a ledge dash is to almost immediately be able to attack from the ledge that is not a getup attack.

I'm dropping from ledge, jumping once with control stick, then doing a wave dash, not just air dodging. So the only difference is I'm pressing Y and R to get on stage as opposed to only R. lol.

 

[Smog]

Well as long as it takes the same time, and you are coming from almost a 180 degree angle that works.

 

[S2rulL]

placed joint 5th at my region's first monthly of the year today of 28 entrants! went 5-1 in pools and 1-2 in bracket, beating ddiz (formerly the best player in our region). very proud of my performance today and i hope that my performance will only improve as the year goes on.

 

[KingKirb]

Which desync is this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5osZLUUWu0#t=176

(2:56 incase the link doesn't work)


Fly lands from an aerial, grabs in place, and shoots desynced iceblocks. Is that from nana's landing lag or what?

 

[941]

Which desync is this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5osZLUUWu0#t=176

(2:56 incase the link doesn't work)


Fly lands from an aerial, grabs in place, and shoots desynced iceblocks. Is that from nana's landing lag or what?

I'm not sure what the name is, but Fly is just using a grab to desync like a roll or a spot dodge. I'm guessing it's faster to desync from a grab than a spot dodge because I can't think of any other reason he would do it.

 

[KingKirb]

I'm not sure what the name is, but Fly is just using a grab to desync like a roll or a spot dodge. I'm guessing it's faster to desync from a grab than a spot dodge because I can't think of any other reason he would do it.

Thanks for that! I didn't know you could desync from a grab. I think maybe he was trying to cover an option, because a spot dodge is faster according to frame data. Standing grab ends at 29 frames, spotdodge ends at 25.

One more question, if you'll humor me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5osZLUUWu0#t=400

At around 6:43, Fly wavedashes back and somehow gets a desync. This one really confuses me.

 

[941]

Thanks for that! I didn't know you could desync from a grab. I think maybe he was trying to cover an option, because a spot dodge is faster according to frame data. Standing grab ends at 29 frames, spotdodge ends at 25.

One more question, if you'll humor me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5osZLUUWu0#t=400

At around 6:43, Fly wavedashes back and somehow gets a desync. This one really confuses me.

It's hard to tell because it looks like the video is running at a lower frame-rate, but it looks like Fly does a quick pivot desync after wavedashing.

 

[Smog]

How should I be dropping from platforms? Shield dropping?

 

[cemo]

Depends on the position. ICs shield drop options aren't great but it's still a valuable tool. I think shield drop -> double jump aerial is probably strong, if you're looking to counterattack while being pressured on a platform. Usually I just prioritize getting back to the ground and resetting to neutral, and shield dropping is a bit faster to get through platforms anyways.

It's hard to tell because it looks like the video is running at a lower frame-rate, but it looks like Fly does a quick pivot desync after wavedashing.

Looks like a quick dash dance desynch -> blizzard, you can see Popo facing backwards for a bit. I think Tomber calls this one the Glide Desynch?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Spot dodge desynchs are faster than whiffed grab desynchs. I just tend to do whiffed grab desynchs when either option is fine since they're less commonly used and hence more likely to catch people off-guard.

The other desynch was a standard DD -> blizzard after a WD back. It wasn't Tomber's 2-dash variant. I don't do pivot desynchs.

 

[OldmanKarp]

Is this a good character for a new player if you really like them? I was a Puff main when I played competitively for about a year but never reached an intermediate level (by smash standards) and I took about a 2.5 year break. I want to start up again and was wondering if it would be reasonable to try IC's or run an easier char like Marth or Sheik.

 

[KingKirb]

Is this a good character for a new player if you really like them? I was a Puff main when I played competitively for about a year but never reached an intermediate level (by smash standards) and I took about a 2.5 year break. I want to start up again and was wondering if it would be reasonable to try IC's or run an easier char like Marth or Sheik.

I'm not the most experienced player either, but I've heard that Ice Climber skills don't really translate well to the other characters (basically if you play ice climbers, it's not going to help you play marth or shiek, but if you play marth or shiek some of the skill transfers over).


However, you should play whoever you like these little guys are too much fun for me to pass up, personally.

 

[cemo]

Damn, I was almost right. 6/10, I need to do my desyncing homework.

here is me losing to a fox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmth-6vuk8g

i'm pretty rusty, i need to play a bit more.

 

[S2rulL]

so in my region, there seems to be a player that i have struggled with since our first monthly named Ducker, and we played in our pool on stream to decide who got 1st and 2nd seed. i lost which annoyed me cus i've been losing to him for ages now. what i do know is i made a lot of stupid errors that were no-one's fault but my own, it's the first match on this archive if you wanna watch me fail http://www.twitch.tv/underworld_asylum/b/615854312

 

[KingKirb]

Whenever I dash dance or pivot desync, nana ends up way behind me. Am I doing it too slow?

 

[Smog]

Lately I'v been practicing my wavelanding on stage/platforms. We've probably all seen Wobbles do the platform switch mid grab. I know its pointless, but probably the flashiest thing in Melee. It is flashy, but it can be useful if you are facing towards the middle of the platform. If nana b-throws you are forced to have to waveland onto another platform to keep the hand-off going. If anyone knows any specifics on this, that would be great. For example, how plausible this actually is, percents it can be done at, stages it can be done on. If its possible it seems crucial every icey knows it because you could be mid stage and nana b-throws the opponent onto a platform, or facing towards the middle of one of the side platforms and nana b-throws onto the top platform.


I also just found a weird desync. I'm not sure if its all platform stages, and it seems either useless or highly situational. If you run and jump almost onto a platform and waveland backwards from where you landed, if you time it right nana will wavedash off the platform while Popo air dodges. Nana can immediately get a move out and then Popo. Maybe for a fake engage to a desync, but still seems pretty useless.

Desync update; I also found if you time it right and land both ice climbers just by the edge of a platform and wavedash off backwards, Nana's move gets edge cancelled, or so it seems. And only Popo uses the ice block (and he seems to always turn around then use it). I feel this may be known though.
Okay I think I figured it out. If you waveland backwards off a platform at all Popo always fall off first and you can use a move at the point where he is off and Nana is still on. Then Nana's move just gets edge cancelled and they desync. So as long as you time it right you can desync by wavelanding off a platform backwards at any point. It just is easier if you land closer to the edge because you can press B immeditaly. Sorry if this is known, I feel like it is. You can do a Nanapult pretty fast by doing this though.

 

[DRWUMBO]

Not really related to the current goings of the thread, but do you think we could somehow start something to get ice climbers DLC for smash 4? I cried myself to sleep once I found out they didn't make it. Call this idea stupid if you want, because it probably is.