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Social General Ice Climber Chat

Binx

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
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Portland, Oregon
I thought your edgeguarding was fine for the most part, even though it often doesn't do anything you won't generally take much damage or be put in a really bad situation while trying to edgeguard marth, as long as you dont go way off the edge its pretty safe to try and hit him while hes recovering, everyone makes mistakes and the 30% I take in a set from recovering marths is totally worth the 2% of the time it gets me a kill.
 
VirtualVoid

VirtualVoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
333
Location
Israel
You should also do the marth edge-shield trick when the marth has to upB to recover, its rather hard for marth to upB perfectly and grab the edge before you fall and grab it before him, harder than dodging an fsmash/dsmash edgeguard. Even if you don't edgehog him with this for the kill, he will land on the stage with lag and you can edgehop waveland into smash or grab.

(Roll to the edge, Z-Shield, angle it down and away from the stage. If you want Nana to shield too instead of eating the upB, do roll>jab with both IC>angled Z-shield.
 
choknater

choknater

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NNID
choknater
oh? will they grab the ledge in time always like fox/falco/falcon? cuz i always do that to marth with them, but i thought ic's don't grab the ledge in time to hog him.

if they do, omg i'll use it more lol.
 
S

Smasher89

Smash Lord
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Nov 4, 2005
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Sweden
choknater said:
oh? will they grab the ledge in time always like fox/falco/falcon? cuz i always do that to marth with them, but i thought ic's don't grab the ledge in time to hog him.

if they do, omg i'll use it more lol.
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I use it often, and ocassionally/rarely Marth gets the ledge first, not sure if its just the spacing, or controllerports or something, but it works, but sometimes not for some reason(use but be ready to fall of from stage since it can happen).
 
P

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Lightsheild hog works 100% of the time with IC. you have to hold down and back at just the right angle and let go at the right time. They have never gotten to the edge first in my experience. They either get the sweetspot, push me away, or the trick works. You can even do it with samus.

It is particularly good because nana will sit there grabbing and her hitlag gives you more time to get back onstage and whack Marth.
 
Binx

Binx

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It is *possible* to recover with up b vs ice climbers doing the edgehog trick, but its really, really hard I think the recovery has to be frame perfect.
 
Wobbles

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
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Oct 9, 2006
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Gilbert, AZ
You gotta work on converting your grabs into big damage; against his Fox you were just dropping stuff left and right. I saw you doing something in particular, which was having Nana dash forward before doing full jump d-air, giving you the reverse... but then you dashed forward and whiffed the regrab.

You also went for lots of really isolated hits when you had opportunities to transfer them into combo starters.

KFC's Fox is playing the matchup really badly though, no precision and seems to choose between you and Nana as his focus completely at random.

As for his Marth, you have a major problem in your approach to the matchup, which is you focus on invading his space, or on running from him. You have to learn how to pressure his zone of control without actually entering it. You rarely dance outside his range to bait attacks you can punish, you rarely invade with your shield to bait bad aerials and tilts you can grab, and you rely on random blizzards and d-smashes that catch him DI'ing badly to win the match for you.

Remember, Marth has terrible priority when you're actually on his body, it's only at the very edge that his moves become unbeatable. KFC throws lots of **** out because he's confident you'll run into it, so fake your approaches more, become more confident in your spacing and stay just outside his range until he throws out something punishable.
 
Vts

Vts

Smash Champion
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Sep 10, 2007
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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll597CyZ7u4&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4hhLlWD890&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUAi5-b2fk&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEOkvClhQI&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs0pQ22q3f0&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhnQeu0Sc4c&feature=channel_video_title

my matches so far missing 1 more from other record set up where i place jace on FD and rainbow cruise

will post later once they are up
should be in order of bracket now
 
VirtualVoid

VirtualVoid

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Dec 25, 2005
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333
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Finished watching the first two videos now.

Overall, I like what I'm seeing, sweet sopo. A little to handoff happy to my opinion, it's usually not worth doing it in the middle of the stage where you can rack more % by doing other stuff like dthrow>usmash>aerials and dthrow>dair>punish DI with grab/upsmash/SH uair.

Against peach try lightshielding more, usually you can't shieldgrab most of the stuff anyway so it helps avoiding getting your shield (And nana) *****. If the peach player likes dsmashing on the FoD platforms you should crouch and punish with usmash.

And lol @ the stitchface shenanigans in the first match.
 
john!

john!

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i only watched the first one but here's what i got so far:

be reactive and defensive vs. peach! you tried to approach and got stuffed a lot of the time, especially by dair. get off the ground and use your aerials and great mobility to catch her off guard and make her quit spamming dair. maybe even try camping her with ice blocks.

she played the matchup correctly (i.e. gay) but you were the better player :)
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

Smash Hero
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Feb 23, 2006
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San Francisco
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
Yeah, short hopping is a pain. You're looking really good for the most part, though. Can you make it to Genesis 2?


I have a lot of the same habits as you, ha. I haven't watched everything yet and I don't have too much to say on what I have seen since it looks like you figured out a lot of your problems as the games went on, but there are some little things here and there that are good to keep in mind.

For example, the way Tec0 likes to nair your shield is a little risky since he does it early, so if you do the light-shield trick, chances are decent that you could grab him out of it.

Some other little things:

-A lot of the time when you're next to a Fox who missed a tech, you dsmash. Jab reset -> grab/dsmash is generally better, but if you were doing dsmash because you thought your opponent would SDI the jab upwards, then your decision is understandable.

-You don't follow up on attempted bthrow gimps with Sopo very well. Most of the time, it looks like the Fox just immediately double jumps and safely recovers high. You have a couple options to beat the immediate double jump. My overall favorite one is to just blizzard immediately after bthrow (edit #3: I see you did this later on, so I didn't need to tell you this; whoopsies), so that Fox jumps into it and then has to up-B from below the stage. Another option that is good if you only have Popo and have at least as many stocks as your opponent is to run off and short hop nair; if the nair connects, you can follow it up with more aerials for a suicide gimp. (edit #5: had you done this on Swift's second stock after the bthrow around 6:25, you probably would have gotten a solid stock lead).

-There were also a lot of times when you would uthrow a Fox onto a platform and you wouldn't follow it up well. For reasons that I've never bothered to identify, almost all Fox players will always tech in place or roll towards the center after you do this. Something that seems kind of goofy, but works really well at dealing with this is immediately doing full hop fair onto the platform after the uthrow. Depending on percentage and DI, the fair will typically combo into another aerial or a grab/smash.


edit: Oh, if anybody cares, I think some videos of mine from the last 2GG will be up on HMW's channel soon. I feel kind of iffy about how I played, but conveniently that didn't seem to matter much. The results from that tourney are here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12888549&postcount=268

edit #2: Aw, you totally had Jman. It looked like you got a little nervous a couple times in the last round, though. It happens to all of us sometimes.

edit #4: Why do you always strike to Battlefield against Fox? I think it's his best neutral against ICs, but maybe that's just me.

probably last edit: This is kind of a boring technicality, but it looks like when doing dthrow -> dair, you use the C-stick for dair. I think the quick motion necessary to get from a jump button to the C-stick is easy to mess up in a high-pressure environment and the simpler motion of *jump button* -> A is easier to be consistent at. Of course, this doesn't necessarily apply to you, but it's helped me.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

Super Elite
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26,559
VTS you're really good. You just need to learn to evaluate risk vs. reward more often in approaching as well as in your combos such as opting for handoffs when dthrow dair or smash regrabs have a higher success rate when not at the ledge. overall I was very impressed by you VTS. I wish I was able to play you when I wasn't tired as **** so I could have gotten some IC's exp, but thankfully I'm getting a ton of Fly Amanita experience in July. :)
 
Vts

Vts

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
Strong Bad said:
VTS you're really good. You just need to learn to evaluate risk vs. reward more often in approaching as well as in your combos such as opting for handoffs when dthrow dair or smash regrabs have a higher success rate when not at the ledge. overall I was very impressed by you VTS. I wish I was able to play you when I wasn't tired as **** so I could have gotten some IC's exp, but thankfully I'm getting a ton of Fly Amanita experience in July. :)
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Thanks, slowly getting better so advice like this really helps :)

being stuck in arkansas kind of sucks but we are all about improvement here.
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

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Fly_Amanita said:
Yeah, short hopping is a pain. You're looking really good for the most part, though. Can you make it to Genesis 2?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I really doubt I'm going. I still can't justify putting so much money into playing Smash...

-A lot of the time when you're next to a Fox who missed a tech, you dsmash. Jab reset -> grab/dsmash is generally better, but if you were doing dsmash because you thought your opponent would SDI the jab upwards, then your decision is understandable.
Click to expand...
Eh, kind of a bad habit I guess (instant satisfaction rather than maximizing punishment). Something to pay more attention to. When Wobbling isn't banned I'm really good at picking up the jab resets but when I can't use it I forget for some reason.

-There were also a lot of times when you would uthrow a Fox onto a platform and you wouldn't follow it up well. For reasons that I've never bothered to identify, almost all Fox players will always tech in place or roll towards the center after you do this. Something that seems kind of goofy, but works really well at dealing with this is immediately doing full hop fair onto the platform after the uthrow. Depending on percentage and DI, the fair will typically combo into another aerial or a grab/smash.
Click to expand...
So I tried this out at a tourney today and saw some success in following up on platforms. For some reason I never thought of doing this previously and would always go for Bair or Uair, which require a lot more guesswork and accuracy than Fair. I'll continue to work on this.

Speaking of which, I did kind of mediocre at today's tourney. Only notable victory was Stric9, and I lost to Eggm 2-1 and Linguini 2-0. Was leading both matches vs. Linguini until the last stock and couldn't wrap it up. I think I improved my vs. Ganon game a ****ton since that disaster vs. Kage, so even though I lost, I'm glad I kept it really close and saw visible improvement. All of it was recorded and should be up soon.

edit #4: Why do you always strike to Battlefield against Fox? I think it's his best neutral against ICs, but maybe that's just me.
Click to expand...
Eh, I'm really not sure. I've always felt like his recovery is a little more limited there since he can't ride the wall with his up-B. I tried striking to Yoshi's today and didn't notice any difference.

Thanks for all the tips:)
 
Vts

Vts

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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
Well slowly getting better just played ihsb in tournament and 2-0d (samus) in winners bracket and then he 2-1 me in losers semi's.

First time ever beating ihsb in tournament :)

2 weeks to get ready for genesis if i keep this up might be able to get out of pools :)

also i'm starting to get a name which is scaring me i kind of don't like it people knew who i was as that amazing IC player but i feel like i'm just decent and people just suck vs ICs lol

hope they just know my name for being a cool smasher even if i suck lol
 
P

PEEF!

Smash Hero
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Messages
5,201
vts we arent friends anymore. Betting against me regarding someone I already beat that youve also beaten when youve never played me. That right there is saying "hey PEEF, you suck, I'm better than you and this guy is better than you" for absolutely no reason and without being asked.

BM. Salt to you sir.
 
john!

john!

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PEEF! said:
vts we arent friends anymore. Betting against me regarding someone I already beat that youve also beaten when youve never played me. That right there is saying "hey PEEF, you suck, I'm better than you and this guy is better than you" for absolutely no reason and without being asked.

BM. Salt to you sir.
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??? can someone explain this? lol
 
Vts

Vts

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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
john! said:
??? can someone explain this? lol
Click to expand...

Sure rather funny,Peef said o i beat sinister at Smym so can i be 3rd in ELO for MO? So peef mistakenly thought he beat sinister a great sheik player from MO at smym but it was really 2 years ago when he played falcon and I beat him most recently by luck those matches are page back. So sinister challenged peef to a $50 MM. So i said i put $20 on sinister cus i won by luck in the set. now peefs angry and doesn't want to be my friend since i like to put money on underdogs just to make things more interesting.


little stupid drama and peef is just being little childish once he looks back on it he will see that i never said he was bad i just wanted to spark a fight between them cus rivals make you want to improve so little pushes here and there by me are everywhere :)

so peef now's your chance to put up your side of the story alright :).
 
P

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Vts said:
Sure rather funny,Peef said o i beat sinister at Smym so can i be 3rd in ELO for MO? So peef mistakenly thought he beat sinister a great sheik player from MO at smym but it was really 2 years ago when he played falcon and I beat him most recently by luck those matches are page back. So sinister challenged peef to a $50 MM. So i said i put $20 on sinister cus i won by luck in the set. now peefs angry and doesn't want to be my friend since i like to put money on underdogs just to make things more interesting.


little stupid drama and peef is just being little childish once he looks back on it he will see that i never said he was bad i just wanted to spark a fight between them cus rivals make you want to improve so little pushes here and there by me are everywhere :)

so peef now's your chance to put up your side of the story alright :).
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No I beat Sinister at a St. Louis tournament last winter/this spring. I did also beat him years ago. He is a Sheik player now. Looks like an ice cold criminal. I did not "mistakenly think I beat him".
 
Vts

Vts

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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
PEEF! said:
No I beat Sinister at a St. Louis tournament this winter. I did also beat him years ago. He is a Sheik player now. Looks like an ice cold criminal.
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Ah, i remember playing him in march and 3-4 stocking him but most recently he's improved so i'm ready for these matches :)

still putting money on him just cus you blew things out of the water lol
 
P

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Vts said:
Ah, i remember playing him in march and 3-4 stocking him but most recently he's improved so i'm ready for these matches :)

still putting money on him just cus you blew things out of the water lol
Click to expand...
Can we at least agree that he looks like he is a stone cold killa.
 
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