Social General Ice Climber Chat

[PokemonMasterIRL]

what this is such a good desynch,

but all i do is have nana smash while i just dash and react

Oh I am dashing away and hitting away.

I like this!

 

[choknater]

thanks plur

 

[Fly_Amanita]

It's an interesting desynch. I don't like it much, but I haven't looked into it as much as I should have.

I don't think we talked about the 1.0 utilt CG enough. Does it work on everybody? Can it be escaped if done properly? My understanding is that it should be inescapable, but I don't really know much about it.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

It's an interesting desynch. I don't like it much, but I haven't looked into it as much as I should have.

I don't think we talked about the 1.0 utilt CG enough. Does it work on everybody? Can it be escaped if done properly? My understanding is that it should be inescapable, but I don't really know much about it.

I find that it is harder to do perfectly than one would imagine.

I feel like its not escapable when done perfectly. Have not tested it yet.

 

[choknater]

LOL i definitely whip it out whenever i notice that i'm playing 1.0...

but i generally don't like focusing on version specific stuff :X

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It works in other versions as a mix-up as well, keep in mind.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I am also curious how easy it is to escape it in other versions when it is done correctly.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

LOL i definitely whip it out whenever i notice that i'm playing 1.0...

but i generally don't like focusing on version specific stuff :X

Yeah, it's clearly not something you can rely heavily on, but it's good to be aware of. I could only get it down a few characters before WGF, but had I had to play any of those characters in tournament, you can bet that I would have tried to go to one of the TVs that I knew had 1.0 on it. It's not hard to quickly check the version, either; I just pick Bowser and see if I can flame cancel.

This is largely my inner troublemaker speaking, but I like being able to highlight significant differences between versions of the games. I think it's good for the community at large to be aware of such differences in spite of the difficulties they cause.

It also doesn't hurt that should the anti-infinite crowd decide they don't like this, any rule against it would come with yet another hurdle of complications.

 

[Smasher89]

Probably easier to ban a certain version of the game, then something actually in the game.
I wonder which version has the longest grabs, since the pummeling speed if different.
EDIT: SmashDiing the uptilt shouldnt be too hard, since theres multiple hits, maybe it´s possible to follow the smashdi with a jab though.

 

[Kyu Puff]

In versions 1.2+, they could just mash a direction to sdi out, or maybe even hold a direction to asdi out. In 1.0 and 1.1, each weak hit of u-tilt does less than 1%, so you can't even sdi out.

In theory, it should be inescapable on Peach and anyone lighter than her (note: in theory, as in frame perfect). In practice, there are various reasons it doesn't work on everyone lighter than Peach. Some of them are too small to hit without moving Nana forward, some of them travel away faster after being released from d-throw, etc. Another factor is that if you aren't frame perfect (i.e. you don't catch them the first frame they are released from u-tilt) they move away a few frames before u-tilt stops them, which is especially a problem at higher percents--they can potentially fly out of your grab range.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Does anybody know if d-throw -> charged d-smash -> dash regrab works on any of the floaties (since it hits them at a low angle)? I feel like it might work on Puff or something. Then again, it probably doesn't.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I don't feel like it should ever work. Especially on Jiggs

Ever

 

[ChivalRuse]

Did you know that d-throw -> fair -> regrab (before she hits the ground) can work on Jiggs? Obviously her DI has to suck, but it's still pretty awesome.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Everything can work on Puff.

If they DI bad, you can get the dumbest combos ever.

Like quad Knee KO combos.

Floaties are amazing for combos if their DI sucks.




If their DI is good, sadly, it's the other extreme.

 

[painlord k11]

you guys talking about all these versions of the game i thought there was like only the the continent of america version and the PAL version which covers europe, australia and idk is japan pal w/e how many versions are there wtf lol.

 

[choknater]

i wasn't able to perform the DANF :O

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

i wasn't able to perform the DANF :O

The timing is strange. You'll get it down though. I believe in you!

 

[ChivalRuse]

What's the DANF? Acronyms are hard for me.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Dash away Nana Fsmash

 

[ChivalRuse]

Oooh. I like to do that. It's pretty easy. I set it up by dashing forward first.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

you guys talking about all these versions of the game i thought there was like only the the continent of america version and the pal version which covers europe, australia and idk is japan pal w/e how many versions are there wtf lol.

ntsc-u 1.0 = ntsc-j 1.0
ntsc-u 1.1 = ntsc-j 1.1
ntsc-u 1.2 = ntsc-j 1.2 = pal 1.2

 

[Smasher89]

Found a possible sollusion to the up DI that´s generally used to escape dthrow dair, works on Falcon at low (not tested exact %).
Popo Dthrow Nana reverse nair>popo bair. Will experiment with this at a tournament this weekend, but I imagine it works really well (like suprise reverse fsmash out of dthrow fsmash) =)

 

[Fly_Amanita]

That sounds pretty good, although I don't like the position it puts Falcon in afterwards. A variation that might be easier to follow up on is reverse nair -> Popo shffl nair -> jab/ftilt/grab/psychic-full-jump-uair/etc.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-throw -> Nana reverse nair? I haven't tried that yet ...

 

[choknater]

oh my gosh. im watching the old p2 chudat vs m2k grand finals vids. m2k obviously wasnt good as today but man, i miss chu's playstyle. lots of nice decisions that i've kinda neglected now that i've been kinda following fly and becoming more defensive. but eh, this has helped me vs marth overall...

however, i think once my camping game gets into marth's head and makes him respect my defense, (which it always does) i think that is the time he gets opened up and i can make some cool chu-like mixup decisions. i miss him hahah

edit: aight, its decided. next time i play shroomed, im gonna try being more aggressive. i get cornered cuz doc, like peach and falco, has a projectile-supported offense that can break ic's camping easily.

 

[Smasher89]

For falco, putting pressure on with iceblocks is probably the most important thing to do, so he´ll have a harder time spacing his lasers.
I´ve not much doc experience but I guess the same thing can be applied to him, especially since he is slower, and will have a harder time punish them.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have lots of Doc experience. You have the right idea Choc, about being aggressive, he can't be out-camped unless you are on FD.

 

[choknater]

yeah i recall fly saying something about grounded ice blocks being effective against him. they were working at slowing him down, but i think i just didnt approach enough. once he does get into a good space with the help of pills, he can easily put on pressure with jab, dsmash, fair

i was already pretty good at the matchup with a lot of hmw experience, but not only was that years ago but shroomed plays a way more aggressive style than brandon.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I always camp Doc and it works fine for me. Pills aren't very hard to deal with, since you can just hit them, shield them, or ice block through them. Doc isn't fast enough on the ground to be very good at catching ICs, so he often needs to approach them in a risky way, which is always nice for us, seeing as a simple dash attack or blizzard can put him in a really bad position.

 

[choknater]

what would u do when u are cornered by the ledge? i feel like his options are very good against ic's in that position.. that position was really hard to avoid against dajuan

something like walkup dsmash when im not blizzarding gahhhh. like his short hop is pretty good

idk i need more experience in the matchup. i wanna play dajuan in a lot of friendlies next time i see him. but first i gotta beat all his secondaries so he whips out the doc....

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fly's answer to everything but Fox/Falco is to camp with some mix of blizzard, ice blocks, disjointed hitboxes, shield abuse, and positioning below the opponent or beneath platforms

 

[Wobbles]

I have to confess, I still don't really understand the Falco matchup.

Every time I beat a Falco player, it feels like he's throwing the game away with some dumb mistake, and the rest of the time I'm just trying not to die.

I try to break my matchups down into "where do I have an advantage" and then bait opponents into those situations. Sometimes they're based on a good read and getting into position well in advance, sometimes it's just applying spacing pressure.

I can't seem to do that to Falco though. It feels like he always has the option of resetting distance while tacking on laser damage, or if he's just not making technical errors he can throw out aerials and be almost completely safe. My wins against him never feel like I actually won.

What do?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco's gay but the Falco mains think he's low tier so people think he has weaknesses he doesn't have.

He has a lot of those advantages you mentioned.

Beating a good Falco means you either won in spite of those advantages, or they suck at a particular part of the MU and you exploited it until they died.

 

[choknater]

at the very least, ice blocks distract his momentum

ahahahah kk eff that vid u sent me on aim. kage's edgeguarding is too good. cmon nintendude step it up, u look like choknater at genesis

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The only Falcos I've played whom I think have the ICs match-up down decently well are DEHF, Mango, and post-December Zhu. I do feel that Falco has a hard time approaching ICs, and ICs do have plenty of low-risk, low-to-high reward options against him. Keep a blizzard in front of you decently often, shoot ice blocks sporadically, don't challenge his shield pressure if he's good at it and just roll/wavedash OoS backwards instead (unless he catches on, of course) , etc.

More generally speaking, doing this sort of thing at the very least tends to annoy your opponent and make him play worse. That's one of more valuable things I learned from the days when I regularly played P; lots of people get flustered when their opponent slows down the pace of the game and consequently play stupidly. There have been plenty of times when after beating someone, I've heard them comment afterwards that they weren't playing well or something along those lines, but frankly, I'd bet that the way I play is largely responsible for that.

My uniform and boring answer to everything *****.

 

[choknater]

fly whats it like playing mango? hehe. do u play him often?

 

[Wobbles]

:/

Well there's a small TX tourney today, so in about 5 hours I guess I'll get to play some of our Falcos and just be real experimental.

Much to learn!

 

[choknater]

YOU GOT THIS WOBBS!



man did u ever upload those tourny matches u talked about vs doh?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I haven't played Mango's Falco in a long time. All I remember is that he's really good at pushing you to the side and if he touches your shield, you're going to get hit eventually.

 

[Wobbles]

chok:

I wasn't the guy who recorded those matches unfortunately.

But if you want, you can watch the matches from the tournament yesterday once DoH uploads them!

First set I lose on FoD, win on Yoshi's, then win on Brinstar twice. I don't know wtf that was about but it seems I'm alright at that level! He also SD'ed once or twice which helped.

Then before the second set he and I both started getting our drink on and his drink-fu was better lol. He 3-0'ed me then third set was 3-2 and he clutched it out on Battlefield. It was an entertaining set we both did some real mean stuff to each other.

GL to any IC player that meets him in bracket, you'll need it.